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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.11 17:39:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: skittles666
i will only say this to ccp...........did the menu need changing?


Yes.

Duran Duval
Posted - 2010.10.11 20:21:00 - [92]
 

While adding the option to unlock targets through a hotkey is nice, I'm finding that it being on CTRL is quite unsatisfactory since it hampers with switching targets and activating modules. Perhaps let the player decide what to map it to by making the toggle two separate options that lock/unlock respectively. Also +1 for 'Warp to' being the first option in the dropdown menu.

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.10.11 22:48:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: skittles666
i will only say this to ccp...........did the menu need changing?


Yes.


No they didn't. Never change a working system, in particular with CCP's track history of making things worse. Just missing confirmation dialogs needed to be added really, otherwise menu structure was (mostly) fine.

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2010.10.12 15:39:00 - [94]
 

As said by others. When you click on somethign in space .. 99% of time you want to WARP TO it.

When you click on somethign in mkarket .. 99% of time you want to BUY it.


So there is no freaking reason to have those options change place.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.12 21:11:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Catari Taga
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: skittles666
i will only say this to ccp...........did the menu need changing?


Yes.


No they didn't. Never change a working system, in particular with CCP's track history of making things worse. Just missing confirmation dialogs needed to be added really, otherwise menu structure was (mostly) fine.


Yes, of course. And "Show Info" located in random places and hitting your hand on every occasion is fully intended "feature".

CCP karkur

Posted - 2010.10.13 19:06:00 - [96]
 

Hello again... as I said in my first post we are still tweaking the menu options and now we have a new build on Sisi where some of the options have been moved around.

I guess most of you will be happy to see that we moved "warp to" and other individual space action to the top of the menu list (and also "buy this").

A few other groups have also been created and options moved around, so please take a look and give us feedback on what you see so we can keep addressing your concerns Very Happy

Battle Mage
Caldari
Just Another Corp Again
Posted - 2010.10.14 04:51:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Battle Mage on 14/10/2010 04:59:26
Maybe ccp should consider to let player to change menu order, grouping and sub-menu.

This way dev don't have to waste too much brain cell and time and everyone can be happy.

As everyone still have access the same number of options, these does not affect game balance.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.14 05:09:00 - [98]
 

remove trash entirely and make it a seperate menu option

Luke Spacerunner
Gallente
Ascendent.
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.10.14 14:47:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: CCP karkur
I guess most of you will be happy to see that we moved "warp to" and
other individual space action to the top of the menu list (and also "buy this").

^^^^^^^^^^
Absolutely

I am not against letting us set our own up, but most of us are technically adept as it is without adding the bias of being frequent players and knowing how *most* of this game works. Unless there is a default and its in the options somewhere, n00bs may have issues. I am glad this issue is being looked at.

Rixiu
The Inuits
Posted - 2010.10.14 14:57:00 - [100]
 

http://piclair.com/data/ujf1y.jpg

Would be logical to have the buttons that results in the ship moving/warping grouped together /me thinks.

Zin Mercher
Posted - 2010.10.14 18:20:00 - [101]
 

On the wallet window ORDERS tab and the market window MY ORDERS and CORPORATION ORDERS tabs, please move the "Modify Order" option to the top when right clicking on an item.

In a separate thread, I have also posted some other market options for the Shortcut bindings that would be nice to see.

Thanks for the twinks! They are very helpful!

Zin

CCP karkur

Posted - 2010.10.14 18:38:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: CCP karkur on 14/10/2010 18:45:04
Originally by: Rixiu
http://piclair.com/data/ujf1y.jpg

Would be logical to have the buttons that results in the ship moving/warping grouped together /me thinks.

You are right... I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be there, but I guess "someone" just forgot to assign it a group Embarassed

Some of you are asking for the ability to order the menu options yourself... of course that would be great, and it is something we want to look into but it just way out of scope for now.

Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2010.10.14 22:14:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Freyya on 14/10/2010 22:40:48
Edited by: Freyya on 14/10/2010 22:35:52
Edited by: Freyya on 14/10/2010 22:29:31
Edited by: Freyya on 14/10/2010 22:23:53
Edited by: Freyya on 14/10/2010 22:18:59
Uhmmm, don't we have the option to scoop abandoned drones to drone bay any more? Or am i being stupid and was that never in and we had the "scoop to cargohold" only?
Right click on the drones in hold without a group doesn't work anymore..i wanted to add some drones to an existing group but the drone menu won't register the right click.
That said, right click on icons of stuff doesn't register anymore aswell. Open space works, ship in space works, open space in cargo hold works.

New issue; Sisters Expanded Probe launcher; right click->reload used-> no blinking icon, no reloading and the module stuck in reload mode. Trying normal reload gives already reloading message. 1 Spent and retrieved sister core scanner probe in hold + 9 in launcher. Docking doesn't reset the reloading issue, offlining neither and removing and trying to fit it again results in "there is already something added to or removed from that location. Please wait untill it finishes and try again." loop...

Also annoying as hell and broken for longer. No more right click on ships in station to open cargo/drone/corp hangar etc. Has to be done through ships tab. Broken since about 6 months or more? RIGHT CLICK MENU DOESN'T WORK IN SHIPS TAB ANYMORE ASWELL. no way to open corporate hangar on carrier now in station...wth happened?

Jalxan
Caldari
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2010.10.15 01:13:00 - [104]
 

Looking good so far. However, the "Trash it" and "Reprocess" commands are far too close to "Assemble Ship" for comfort.

Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
Posted - 2010.10.15 11:24:00 - [105]
 

Sort this please, at least by name. And either use <rocket type> <damage type> (Caldari Navy Phalanx) or <damage type> <rocket type> (Phalanx Rage) for all missile ammo, that should help to find proper one during the fight much faster even with plain sorting by name.

thxbye

Saman Ayan
Minmatar
Lazy.
Posted - 2010.10.15 11:53:00 - [106]
 

The right click problem seems only to be temporary... i had it, but it went away after relogging or clearing the cache, not sure which fixed it. So it isn't as serious as before.

The menus seem to be a lot better now, but i still would like to see the orbit and keep range buttons' right click menus being more useful by adding a list of distances. Perhaps in addition to the menu you could put in a submenu for setting default distances so you don't have to type in a different distance every time you change to a different ship. It would also make the buttons and shortcuts for orbit more useful.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.10.15 14:51:00 - [107]
 

Window menu (main, if you want it that way) should be
Close/Minimize/-/Help

Market item list menu:
Buy this/Location/-/Show Info

Space object menu:
Set destination/Add waypoint/Bookmark location/-/Show Info
(Honestly, how often you show info on them? And how often you plot routing?)

Ship in hangar:
Open Cargohold/Open dronebay/Open any other bay (but honestly, "Open cargohold" should have all cargobays embedded except corphangar)/View Contents/-/ the rest seems to be in place /-/ Show Info

Items in hangar... What do you think, how often you'll be using Show Info? To bottom it.

Hasnpbeard
Posted - 2010.10.15 17:52:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Hasnpbeard on 15/10/2010 17:53:50
DOCK needs to be at least 3rd in the list (if not first) when clicking a station or choosing from menu. At the end of the list its just silly.

Thanks =)

Rixiu
The Inuits
Posted - 2010.10.15 21:33:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Rixiu on 15/10/2010 21:47:42
http://piclair.com/data/r6kcf.jpg

Personally I'd like to have "set destination" and "add waypoint" at the top, or atleast just below the "show info" button since you use those way more regulary than "show solar system in mapbrowser" (who uses that thing anyway?).

12433412
Freemason Core
Posted - 2010.10.15 21:41:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: 12433412 on 15/10/2010 21:50:35
Revamping the shortcut system is a great idea.

I have some proposals:
- enable single shorcut mapping to multiple actions (e.g. f1 will activate both guns and scram; one key will activate all tank modules), this will greatly increase the usability (only warn the user the shortcut has previous mappings)
- make different commands for activating and deactivating (lock/unlock, activate/deactivate), if both on and off commands are mapped to the same shortcut, only then make it work as toggle
- technically, approach and align are NOT two separate commands (why different shortcuts?)
- make it possible to have shortcuts to different warp to ranges (warp at 0, at 10, at 100 etc.)
- create a context menu command "assign shortcut"
- create a command for launching drones - link it to drone groups, mapping would be set through right-click context menu (alternatively make it possible to choose a desired - and existing - drone group in the esc->shortcuts menu; add a combo box of some sort there)


Thank you for your consideration

124

EDIT: added context menu assignments and launch drone suggestions

Talaan Stardrifter
Universal Exports
Posted - 2010.10.16 01:11:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: Talaan Stardrifter on 16/10/2010 01:28:00
Edited by: Talaan Stardrifter on 16/10/2010 01:16:22
Originally by: Rixiu
Edited by: Rixiu on 15/10/2010 21:47:42
http://piclair.com/data/r6kcf.jpg

Personally I'd like to have "set destination" and "add waypoint" at the top, or atleast just below the "show info" button since you use those way more regulary than "show solar system in mapbrowser" (who uses that thing anyway?).


I use it quite a bit, but not using that menu option.

Anyway, Skill Queue menus, please put the "Train This" at the top, and show info at the bottom.
(Probably a good idea to put show info at the bottom of all menus, keeps it constant)

In-Space menu > stations > dock should be near top (under Align To)

Also, why not add a "confirm" submenu to critical actions (such as Trash)?
There is precedent in Corp and Fleet menus.

There's also a menu missing from Items in Assets, FYI Wink

Pesets
The Hunt Club
Posted - 2010.10.16 05:32:00 - [112]
 

Thanks for putting "warp to 0" back on top for celestials. Please put it back on top for bookmarks as well.

Zombie Jeebus
Amarr
Alt Holdings llc
Posted - 2010.10.17 04:18:00 - [113]
 

I haven't played with the menus in space much but I'm loving how the market items, specifically ships, are grouped together by hull class i.e. Cruisers and Advanced Cruisers(all). It makes for 1 extra click when buying a specific type but it allows for much faster category browsing.

Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2010.10.17 17:04:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Pesets
Thanks for putting "warp to 0" back on top for celestials. Please put it back on top for bookmarks as well.


Dear CCP. What is the SINGLE thing people do with bookmarks? ooo right.. they WARP to them. Therefore...

THIS!

cyclobs
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.17 17:16:00 - [115]
 

okay a couple of things with the new build..

show info should really be right on the bottom. it just seems to take too much for to find it in the middile of everything and it's not really that important to be in the middle. down the bottom would make it easy to find and out of the way.

"warp to location" on missions should be at the top not bottom

what happened to the right click in station with the "undock / what not" (or is my right click menu playing up :( )


Femerov
Minmatar
The Black Bha'lir
Saints Amongst Sinners
Posted - 2010.10.18 16:34:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Icanti
Edited by: Icanti on 01/10/2010 20:14:51
If the warp to and warp to at distance are not put back to where they were, the amount of whining on the forums after this patch will pale in comparison if this change goes live....

Those 2 are used far to often to be meddled with.....


i totally agree with Icanti. im so used to having the warp commands where they are now, and show info at the bottom of the box that it would be very hard to get used to a new layout which im sure a lot of folks will go wrong on and aint able to jump out of situations such as gate camps / wars etc.. as fast as they can now and in so losing a lot more ships .

Skandranon Black
Unseen Academy
The Unseen Company
Posted - 2010.10.18 16:36:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Window menu (main, if you want it that way) should be
Close/Minimize/-/Help

definitely like that!

Space object menu:
- bookmarks need the order as celestials - warp first!

On blueprints:
- move "Propose lockdown vote" much lower - it's not used as often as other blueprint actions
-(BPO) move market options below manufacturing/research - come on, how many people sell BPO on market in comparison to actually using them.

THANK YOU so much for moving "cancel order" away from "modify order", it was such a pain to figure out how much more stuff was on my buy order which I accidentally cancelled. And on that note, "show info" on orders should be on the bottom - when you trade something you usually already know what it is and you are much more interested in modifying the order.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.10.19 12:17:00 - [118]
 

Dear CCP, while you are doing some tweaking of the menu and shortcuts, can you please let us have CTRL+left click toggle overload on modules?

Draco Argen
Posted - 2010.10.19 14:31:00 - [119]
 

Ok first off bravo, this may not be achieving the public response one might hope. Eve public responses are cruel vindictive and unforgiving as a vocal rule. but this is a demonstration of a developer seeing a CSM raised issue and going out of their way to retro fit and monkey patch the system until it can be rewritten in year to come.

Anyway, to point at hand.

Comment on muscle memory. Go home. Yes your right you will misclick for a while, but you learnt the muscle memory, you will be able to relearn the new behavior eventually. Its a terrible reason to keep things the way they were.

Point on ergonomics and usability to consider.
Human brain doesn't actually care about sequence forward or backward in terms of "ease", it finds and recognises the beginning and end very quickly and moves inwards, (also recognising shape, not that this is relevant here).
If you hvae raed one of thsee raelly silly mipuxs you will udnesrtand. (you recognise the end, beginning and significant shape of words, you don't actually read each letter anymore)

So you have two places to put your most wanted items. One on top, one on bottom. Importance decreases towards the middle.

Unfortunately from what i understand of the description of the hackfix this isnt going to be possible/easy to achieve. Top to bottom importance will have to do (or reverse).

Its also been said that exceeding 6 items (or three from each end) generally goes over the number the brain naturally can follow with ease.
By all means put in more than 6 items in a menu, but quick fire and high urgancy or high repatition items like warp, jump, sell, etc should go at the top/bottom/ends, and dangerous but frequent items should go in the middle (or sub menu'd).

In any other UI widget or system i'd be going on about about sub menus, but I highly agree mouse navigated sub menus as they stand SUCK. The accuracy and resolution we tend to use makes it statistically easier to hit three bulls eyes in a row than warp to a moon where we want to. (seriously measure the size of the screen vs the menu items you've gota click)

Any Tender loving care these menus get is a bonus. If we dont get it perfect now but its considered for later UI rebuild the crowds should be rejoicing not spitting. But were a cynical bunch of non believers, you will have to bear with us CCP.

Thanks karkur, you are and will be silently loved by many many more users than you know for banishing the evil menus.
Thanks CSM guy for explaining how its being achieved and minding this thread.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.20 10:39:00 - [120]
 

BTW, at the recent October meetings, I gave Karkur a special present to thank her for stepping up and doing this. I will leave it up to her whether or not she wants to say what it was -- but she might wear it (or perhaps, brandish it) at FanFest.


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