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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.09.20 15:10:00 - [61]
 

Awesome feature but please DON'T implement it.

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2010.09.20 15:45:00 - [62]
 

I call can has stuffsies on all the people rage quitting over a thing that 90% of the game won't use.

Seriously though. Go head. Ragequit. the game is getting too full as it is. Lets go back to 2006 / 7 levels.

Nullity
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.20 18:13:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Nullity on 20/09/2010 18:14:14
Originally by: Cyrus Doul
I call can has stuffsies on all the people rage quitting over a thing that 90% of the game won't use.

Seriously though. Go head. Ragequit. the game is getting too full as it is. Lets go back to 2006 / 7 levels.

I'm not quitting over this since it's relatively minor. However, I find this to be distasteful and would rather it not be implemented. If micro-transactions become anymore prevalent I'd definitely consider quitting after six and a half years of playing this great game.

Dzajic
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.20 18:18:00 - [64]
 

Seriously CCP? We had devs confirming "there are and there will be no mictroctransactions in Baghdad, sorry EVE" when, 2 months ago? So quick to forget?

Very bad move. Especially considering that EVE was built around everyone having equally slow extremely long progress paths.

If you haven't forgotten, we pay for this game with $$$. Microtransactions only have place in terrible imbalanced short lived Free2Play Pay2Win games.

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.09.20 20:59:00 - [65]
 

I mean seriously CCP WTF?! Microtransactions. If this goes live I will seriously consider to stop playing this game.

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.09.20 21:04:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: T''Amber on 20/09/2010 21:52:35

Please vote against this feature:


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1387227


*edit: Fixed the link
Cheers.
-T'amber




Xadrik
Invaders Empire Wold
RED Citizens
Posted - 2010.09.20 21:22:00 - [67]
 

Guys, I think you are forgetting the fact that a plex can be bought for ISK!

I micro-transaction is where you pay real life money for an in-game service/benefit/item.

However they usually only favor those who are willing to spend real life money, this system allows players to obtain this benefit by both real life money and isk.

Everybody wins, nobody loses.

Plex's gain an extra use and so the value may increase, the stockpile will get reduced.

Players can gain more remaps by either buying a plex for isk or cash. I honestly don't see how this mechanic favors those willing to spend cash on the game.

You were fine when they allowed the sale of plex for isk, because you could then effectively play for free, but now you don't want to be able to purchase remaps for isk?

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.09.20 21:39:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Xadrik
Guys, I think you are forgetting the fact that a plex can be bought for ISK!

I micro-transaction is where you pay real life money for an in-game service/benefit/item.

However they usually only favor those who are willing to spend real life money, this system allows players to obtain this benefit by both real life money and isk.

Everybody wins, nobody loses.

Plex's gain an extra use and so the value may increase, the stockpile will get reduced.

Players can gain more remaps by either buying a plex for isk or cash. I honestly don't see how this mechanic favors those willing to spend cash on the game.

You were fine when they allowed the sale of plex for isk, because you could then effectively play for free, but now you don't want to be able to purchase remaps for isk?


The issue isn't that everyone has the option to buy plex with isk, and then use their plex to buy remap..
its that not everyone has the option to buy remaps with money and where this could lead.

-T'amber


Meldgaard
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.09.20 21:44:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Gone Lukeoup
What next, SP for PLEX?


i hope so, the sp system are a time sink anyway just so that we keep on playing each mouth, why not allow us to pay it all up front and give me the sp's instantly so i dont have to go afg each time there are a new fotm.

Slave 6013
Posted - 2010.09.20 21:50:00 - [70]
 

it is already possible for a rich person to buy 100m sp character by buying plex for rl money and trade them for isk! not everyone has the option to do that as well because not everyone is rich.

someone who is rich would never use this system to remap like once every two weeks. he would just buy said 100m sp character. this feature mainly would be used to repair remap accidents. some will use it to remap maybe like once every six months. buying a character, however, is still the best option to get sp for money.

*****ing and whining about about everything and everyone without a valid reason really must be a hobby for some of you.

Xadrik
Invaders Empire Wold
RED Citizens
Posted - 2010.09.20 21:52:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: T'Amber
Originally by: Xadrik
Guys, I think you are forgetting the fact that a plex can be bought for ISK!

I micro-transaction is where you pay real life money for an in-game service/benefit/item.

However they usually only favor those who are willing to spend real life money, this system allows players to obtain this benefit by both real life money and isk.

Everybody wins, nobody loses.

Plex's gain an extra use and so the value may increase, the stockpile will get reduced.

Players can gain more remaps by either buying a plex for isk or cash. I honestly don't see how this mechanic favors those willing to spend cash on the game.

You were fine when they allowed the sale of plex for isk, because you could then effectively play for free, but now you don't want to be able to purchase remaps for isk?


The issue isn't that everyone has the option to buy plex with isk, and then use their plex to buy remap..
its that not everyone has the option to buy remaps with money and where this could lead.

-T'amber




The same argument could be used that not everyone has the option to pay for subscriptions with real life money and so allowing people to sell plex for isk, allows those to carry on playing.

As for where this can lead, I fully understand your concerns on this topic, that ccp could end up introducing micro-transactions based around skillpoints etc. However if we go over the past year of plex updates we can notice one thing; ccp are trying to reduce the stockpile of plex's in game.

They mentioned this a while back, which is why they added the ability to reclaim a plex, and then more recently the ability to take them out of stations. This to me seems like a good method of reducing the amount of plex's ingame by giving them an additional use. Granted it will probably increase the sale of plex's and give ccp extra profit, but lets face it, if they really wanted to maximise profit here, they would introduce this system completely additional to that of plex's.

Micro transactions are vastly becoming a popular business model in MMO's, and it wouldn't suprise me if in time, every mmo utilised this, however I strongly believe ccp will be one of the last to introduce a proper cash shop.

This system has the potential to benefit all, some players really messed up their remaps, and are stuck with crappy attributes for another year, some players have that much isk, they don't mind throwing away 330m(+/-) for quicker training, which lets face it, isn't a massive difference, but does provide a beneficial use.

Players buying plex's for real life cash have been doing so for a while, adding an additional use to plex's that isn't game breaking, nor economy breaking isn't a big deal, but would be a welcomed addition by many.

Soraya Nol
Posted - 2010.09.20 22:23:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Slave 6013
it is already possible for a rich person to buy 100m sp character by buying plex for rl money and trade them for isk! not everyone has the option to do that as well because not everyone is rich.

someone who is rich would never use this system to remap like once every two weeks. he would just buy said 100m sp character. this feature mainly would be used to repair remap accidents. some will use it to remap maybe like once every six months. buying a character, however, is still the best option to get sp for money.

*****ing and whining about about everything and everyone without a valid reason really must be a hobby for some of you.


Let me elighten you. With this system you can generate sp faster with rl cash.
If I have to explain any further why this is bad you are an idiot without hope.

Slave 6013
Posted - 2010.09.20 23:20:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Soraya Nol
Originally by: Slave 6013
it is already possible for a rich person to buy 100m sp character by buying plex for rl money and trade them for isk! not everyone has the option to do that as well because not everyone is rich.

someone who is rich would never use this system to remap like once every two weeks. he would just buy said 100m sp character. this feature mainly would be used to repair remap accidents. some will use it to remap maybe like once every six months. buying a character, however, is still the best option to get sp for money.

*****ing and whining about about everything and everyone without a valid reason really must be a hobby for some of you.


Let me elighten you. With this system you can generate sp faster with rl cash.
If I have to explain any further why this is bad you are an idiot without hope.


that's not true. a lot of people already train only int / mem skills for one year, perc / will for another year, etc. those people would have no advantage of using plex for remap at all. only if you don't want to focus on one skillgroup per year you could consider to use plex for remaping. doing that, however, would not generate more sp than just training one skillgroup per year without remaping. so basicly you would have to pay isk or rl money for more flexibility but not for more sp.

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.09.20 23:20:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Soraya Nol
Originally by: Slave 6013
it is already possible for a rich person to buy 100m sp character by buying plex for rl money and trade them for isk! not everyone has the option to do that as well because not everyone is rich.

someone who is rich would never use this system to remap like once every two weeks. he would just buy said 100m sp character. this feature mainly would be used to repair remap accidents. some will use it to remap maybe like once every six months. buying a character, however, is still the best option to get sp for money.

*****ing and whining about about everything and everyone without a valid reason really must be a hobby for some of you.


Let me elighten you. With this system you can generate sp faster with rl cash.
If I have to explain any further why this is bad you are an idiot without hope.


These points regarding buying plex and characters are relevant to making a decision.
Discussion is good


Turgomuk Har
Posted - 2010.09.20 23:35:00 - [75]
 

I can see that the main reason for CCP to do this is to generate more cash flow while allowing people that screwed up their remmaping (or that simply want to remmap more often) to do it.

I don't see a problem with this but I would change a couple things in it.

Being directly linked to PLEX it will make ingame PLEX price go higher because there will be people buying it with isk to remmap.

The consequence is that as PLEX price goes higher it will make unprofitable to have multiple accounts running with PLEX and ultimately even keep the main account that way (which I do at the moment as I can't afford to pay real cash for as I'm unemployed).

This means that while the demand for PLEX for remmaping purposes will go up, on the long run the demand for it to mantain accounts will drop and CCP wont sell as many PLEX as they expect to.

Now the solution:

Instead of associating extra remmaping to PLEX associate it to a fixed isk amount like it happens with the medical clones (let's say 400 mil for instance).

This way, the people that can generate isk in game to do it will be able to without affecting the PLEX demand while the ones that can't afford it but want to do it anyway will try to sell PLEX to get the isk, making the offer of PLEX go up and it's price go down, which will make those ones that want to sell it to remmap to have to sell more units to get enough isk for remmaping.

This way:

- CCP will end up selling more GTC to convert into PLEX.
- The ones willing to pay real cash for extra remmaps will be able to do so.
- People that run free accounts with PLEX will be able to do it more easly, thus getting more free time for other activities than isk generation as the PLEX price goes down.

I think that this way everybody will be happy (unless CCP ultimate intention is to "kill" the free accounts).

CCP, I hope that you read this and see the logic in it. And if you apply this feature to TQ, you do it with this changes.

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.09.20 23:48:00 - [76]
 

Hey, CCP

Were's the 'devblog' on this? You making a change like this without telling the players? You could colour me surprised, but frankly I'm getting used to being screwed around by you

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.09.21 00:17:00 - [77]
 

Of all the possible microtransactions in EVE, this seems least odious. Way less bad for the game than sanctioned character bazaar. But if there's ever a direct pay for skillpoints feature, which I suspect, that is too far.

Twelveandahalf percent
Posted - 2010.09.21 00:43:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: T'Amber
Edited by: T''Amber on 20/09/2010 21:52:35

Please vote against this feature:


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1387227

But please vote FOR plex for Pizza!
*edit: Fixed the link
Cheers.
-T'amber





Twelveandahalf percent
Posted - 2010.09.21 00:55:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Of all the possible microtransactions in EVE, this seems least odious. Way less bad for the game than sanctioned character bazaar. But if there's ever a direct pay for skillpoints feature, which I suspect, that is too far.
Lad why do you think they are working so hard on ironing out the bugs on the Skillpoing granting thingy but hideing that by sayingits free SP for mass testing?

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2010.09.21 03:40:00 - [80]
 

Reading this thread, I lol'd hardcore.
Thank you guys for making my day!
Now, i'm heading to sleep happy!

The guy who thoroughly failed to explain the PLEX price dynamics winning a special laugh, btw!

Tidanis
Autistic Sharks
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2010.09.21 04:48:00 - [81]
 

Let me through another ringer through of this "Supply and demand" arguement:

CCP allows plexes to reset a remap: demand goes up
Potential new players come into game that can skill faster: demand goes up
CCP enables plexes for direct SP addition: demand goes up further
More players subscribe to eve and be useful faster (with the hope of dumping learning in the trash)

End product: more people playing eve, which is what CCP wants. We might be the players but CCP will write us off in an instant if they could make millions more/year.

Fake Edit: being almost brand new to 0.0, the lag out here is pretty hardcore. Hopefully they can time the bringing of new dev's to fix that before more and more people pile into New Eden.

Marconus Orion
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.09.21 08:20:00 - [82]
 

First adding the ability to move PLEX so they have a chance to be destroyed and thus free money for CCP. Now this... Micro-transactions are here to stay. Soon it will be, "Spend PLEX to get Ships/Modules/Skill Points", feature.

Micro-transactions do well on the consoles and other things like cell phones. From a business point of view, it's a good move. Game play point of view?... its ****. Shame CCP doesn't put the game play before business first anymore.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.09.21 09:46:00 - [83]
 

I'm completely neutral on this feature, but reading some of the replies makes me think 90% of the eve forum population is ******ed, things like.

"Plex is cool, since everyone has the opportunity to buy plex, but not everyone has real money so don't implement this guys" had me triple face palming. Like... you know that plex you can buy with isk or sell for isk that you think is fine and working... you can buy plexes to use on remaps with isk too....

"Really nice feature, BUT DON'T IMPLEMENT IT" christ...


Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.09.21 09:51:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Marconus Orion
First adding the ability to move PLEX so they have a chance to be destroyed and thus free money for CCP. Now this... Micro-transactions are here to stay. Soon it will be, "Spend PLEX to get Ships/Modules/Skill Points", feature.




Sup dawg, you can already buy ships and modules with RL cash by buying plex.

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.09.21 10:09:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: T''Amber on 21/09/2010 10:17:08
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Marconus Orion
First adding the ability to move PLEX so they have a chance to be destroyed and thus free money for CCP. Now this... Micro-transactions are here to stay. Soon it will be, "Spend PLEX to get Ships/Modules/Skill Points", feature.




Sup dawg, you can already buy ships and modules with RL cash by buying plex.


^^^^^^ This.
Although I'm not sure that the fact that there are already mechanics ingame to allow unfair advantages is sufficient to allow more.
This is definately something important to consider before making a decision on whether you support this as a new feature or not.

Remember its only on sisi, so far.
CCP has had their ears open for a while now, lets hope they seriously consider the consequences and player attitudes before making a decision to allow it onto tranq.

-T'amber




Peter LundinSWE
Posted - 2010.09.21 12:46:00 - [86]
 

WTF ccpShocked

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.09.21 12:55:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: Marconus Orion
First adding the ability to move PLEX so they have a chance to be destroyed and thus free money for CCP. Now this... Micro-transactions are here to stay. Soon it will be, "Spend PLEX to get Ships/Modules/Skill Points", feature.




Sup dawg, you can already buy ships and modules with RL cash by buying plex.


Sup dawg, just want to explain to you the difference between Regulated player RMT and Microtransactions :

RMT ( Real Money Trade ) is a more general term for buying and selling virtual curreny and items for real life money, which includes, but is not limited to Microtransactions, and is mainly used for trading between players, but also to a lesser extent for trading between players and companies.

Regulated player RMT ( aka the plex system ), is a pragmatic solution by CCP to cut down on hacking and illegal activities, and making a buck out of it at the same time. No ISK or Items are magically summoned by CCP. There is still a need for ( at leaset some of ) the players to play the game. There is no direct influence on the EVE economy. CCP additional income is limited to selling more prepaid time.

Microtransactions, are small virtual item/currency/service packages to enhance your gameplay, bought directly from the company.
CCP will most likely never allow to buy items or isk directly from them, because that would tank the economy and industry.

But it seems they are looking for more services to be paid for ( in this case neural remap ) directly, which would introduce another microtransaction ( next to Transfer Character and Swap Character Portrait ) to EVE.

Hope this clarifies some of the misunderstandings.

p.s. Allowing the use of plexes for Transfer Character or Swap Character Portrait, would be a nice adition, because it would allow people to use their ISK for these services.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.09.21 15:31:00 - [88]
 

Big deal. 350 million isk (about one plex) = Additional re-map. How much are those +5's?

Conventional method of purchasing skillpoints: Buy a bunch of plex for isk, then buy a character with that isk. What's the actual difference? Buying a character is faster.


nadx
Posted - 2010.09.21 15:35:00 - [89]
 

Next expansion you will see a new shiny button called "Item shop".
Where you can buy things that increase your isk-gained under one hour for 10$ etc..

How far will it go if they implement this "small feature"?

Umino Iruka
Posted - 2010.09.21 22:29:00 - [90]
 

This is the most inteligent post i`ve seen so far in this thread. No offence but stop whining about "OMG CCP cant implement this whaa whaa". Dont want to point out examples but every company wants MONEY. Wake up to reality and seriously i SUPPORT this change.


Originally by: Tidanis
Let me through another ringer through of this "Supply and demand" arguement:

CCP allows plexes to reset a remap: demand goes up
Potential new players come into game that can skill faster: demand goes up
CCP enables plexes for direct SP addition: demand goes up further
More players subscribe to eve and be useful faster (with the hope of dumping learning in the trash)

End product: more people playing eve, which is what CCP wants. We might be the players but CCP will write us off in an instant if they could make millions more/year.

Fake Edit: being almost brand new to 0.0, the lag out here is pretty hardcore. Hopefully they can time the bringing of new dev's to fix that before more and more people pile into New Eden.



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