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Henri Rearden
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.10 00:36:00 - [1]
 

So, there are a few guys who like to play hide and seek with us, and they're getting boring. I was wondering if it is possible to fit a covops frig with a passive targeting mod and target them while cloaked, then immediately scram and tp when corpies warp to me and arrive on grid, so the target can't run away before the real tacklers get ahold of them. Has anybody else tried this? Scanning ship and surprise tackle in one?

Daergaar
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.10 00:46:00 - [2]
 

You cannot activate any (that means ANY) modules while cloaked.

Henri Rearden
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.10 00:49:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Daergaar
You cannot activate any (that means ANY) modules while cloaked.

Thanks for the quick reply! I was afraid of that. I'll have to swap for a scripted sensor booster then. That's like 2.5 seconds delay... hopefully that's not too long.

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2010.09.10 00:55:00 - [4]
 

I've done it, but remember two things:

1) There is a 5-7 second delay between deactivation of the cloak on a CovOps and you being able to lock another ship (10 seconds minus your skill level in cloaking),
2) CovOps are fragile ships.

The first means that an on-the-ball pilot can get away unless he's in something big and ungainly. The second means you may not survive until the real tacklers get there. Covert Ops frigates have larger signature radii than regular frigates (tend to be about 50 meters), so they're a little easier to lock and hit than others.

The usual bit is for the covert ops to provide a warp in for the real tacklers. The interceptor comes warping in to the cov ops at range, and unless the targets are really paying attention to the D-scan, you may catch the bigger ships if the first warning they have is the inty appearing on grid.

Captain Nares
Posted - 2010.09.10 04:02:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Captain Nares on 10/09/2010 04:02:18
Stealth bombers have zero targeting delay after decloak.


el M
Caldari
Haita de lupi
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2010.09.10 07:01:00 - [6]
 

Requirements:

covop cloak, expanded probe launcher, mwd , t2 disruptor, buffer(med shield extender), explozive resitance (warriors) and thermal resitance (homogoblins), cost effective .

[Helios, cheap durable ,agile , costeffective tackler]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I
Supplemental Thermal Barrier Emitter
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Expanded Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Small Ancillary Current Router I


Hobgoblin II x1


High skill requirements ... T3s in cov op configs can do the job better..

Hatsumi Kobayashi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.09.10 07:09:00 - [7]
 

If you're not using a bomber to tackle and have that targeting delay from uncloaking, don't forget that you can bump them to prevent them from warping. That's a bit risky with a frail ship like a covops, but this can work extremely well if they are already aligned - warp at range cloaked, set view on their ship to find out what their align point is, warp there and back to where they are, then ram your ship up their nose.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.09.10 07:22:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: el M
High skill requirements ... T3s in cov op configs can do the job better..


cloaky probing tengu with agility and buffer fit (agility nav sub used, not the IN one).

warps as fast as a frigate, has like over 100k EHP, altho it's somewhat slower.

Footoo Rama
Gallente
Beyond Control.
Posted - 2010.09.10 15:06:00 - [9]
 

Fit a point on your SB's?? Or for bonus fly an arazu with some SB's.

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.10 15:51:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 10/09/2010 15:53:45
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 10/09/2010 15:52:26
Originally by: el M
Requirements:

covop cloak, expanded probe launcher, mwd , t2 disruptor, buffer(med shield extender), explozive resitance (warriors) and thermal resitance (homogoblins), cost effective .

[Helios, cheap durable ,agile , costeffective tackler]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I
Supplemental Thermal Barrier Emitter
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Expanded Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Small Ancillary Current Router I


Hobgoblin II x1


High skill requirements ... T3s in cov op configs can do the job better..

Wouldn't an afterburner be more effective to speed tank with, when you uncloak your in range so there is no need to MWD to the target. When you scram and Web them there MWD is useless, so they won't escape.

Also a Scram and Web would help cause your gonna uncloak right next to them! Also why the core scanner, you can not fit a combat scanner what would a core do?

Also an MWD will ballon you so huge on a ship with a ridiculous sig that you will pretty much instapop!

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.09.10 17:26:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 10/09/2010 17:26:45
Originally by: Footoo Rama
Fit a point on your SB's?? Or for bonus fly an arazu with some SB's.


well once I did consider those two options, but:

a) SB's are actually not that fast, and considering the limited fitting possibilities of them, you're actually better off leaving tackle to other, more capable ships.

b) Arazus are sturdier than both cov ops or stealth bombers, but to make them really sturdy, you increase your already huuuge sig, or you make them as fast and nimble as a sea cow on the desert, adn even them you're not really that sturdy.


end result was the cloaky, probing tengu, which, while it lacks the range of the arazu, you make up for it for like 3 to 5 times the EHP, like 3x more agile, and you can actually do some quality probing, AND you don't cap out every time you warp out.

of course, however, there is a price tag to it, like every T3 ship has.

Profit jr
Minmatar
Kumovi
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2010.09.10 17:59:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Henri Rearden
So, there are a few guys who like to play hide and seek with us, and they're getting boring. I was wondering if it is possible to fit a covops frig with a passive targeting mod and target them while cloaked, then immediately scram and tp when corpies warp to me and arrive on grid, so the target can't run away before the real tacklers get ahold of them. Has anybody else tried this? Scanning ship and surprise tackle in one?



LOL annoyed you keep getting your precious ratting ships blown up? :D

Footoo Rama
Gallente
Beyond Control.
Posted - 2010.09.10 19:19:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 10/09/2010 17:26:45
Originally by: Footoo Rama
Fit a point on your SB's?? Or for bonus fly an arazu with some SB's.


well once I did consider those two options, but:

a) SB's are actually not that fast, and considering the limited fitting possibilities of them, you're actually better off leaving tackle to other, more capable ships.

b) Arazus are sturdier than both cov ops or stealth bombers, but to make them really sturdy, you increase your already huuuge sig, or you make them as fast and nimble as a sea cow on the desert, adn even them you're not really that sturdy.


end result was the cloaky, probing tengu, which, while it lacks the range of the arazu, you make up for it for like 3 to 5 times the EHP, like 3x more agile, and you can actually do some quality probing, AND you don't cap out every time you warp out.

of course, however, there is a price tag to it, like every T3 ship has.


I think tanking an arazu is fail you need the mids so no shields, and if you plate it it makes it even slower, I generally nano mine instead of plate fitting. The tank is pretty much range plus damps. I do plate tank it for gate camping fun, esp if I am sebo fit to catch people that burn back and through a gate as I sit and scout on the backside.

As for points with an sb. You are working as a team, and one of you has the point, generally you are going after bc or bs hulls with them. One of the sb runs a tp another a web, and the third a point.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.09.10 19:28:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Footoo Rama
As for points with an sb. You are working as a team, and one of you has the point, generally you are going after bc or bs hulls with them. One of the sb runs a tp another a web, and the third a point.


then again, having inties in the gang doesn't hurt too.

I honestly see the point of packing points in SB's. I really do, and it is effective.
but, in my view, it's like the dual-prop taranis: effective yes, but it's still a work from the devilLaughing

Dengen Krastinov
Amarr
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2010.09.10 21:21:00 - [15]
 

u mad?

Ichera
Posted - 2010.09.10 21:39:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Dengen Krastinov
u mad?


I do believe they are... bro

Henri Rearden
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.10 22:06:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Henri Rearden on 10/09/2010 22:32:56
Originally by: Profit jr
Originally by: Henri Rearden
So, there are a few guys who like to play hide and seek with us, and they're getting boring. I was wondering if it is possible to fit a covops frig with a passive targeting mod and target them while cloaked, then immediately scram and tp when corpies warp to me and arrive on grid, so the target can't run away before the real tacklers get ahold of them. Has anybody else tried this? Scanning ship and surprise tackle in one?



LOL annoyed you keep getting your precious ratting ships blown up? :D


I think they've made a kill or two (one was a hulk) but no, I'm usually in a cheap tackler out looking for them. Got close once, but they managed to get away... Dramiels, you see. Skirmish fit, judging by how flipping fast they are. My precious ratting ship is a Maelstrom with T2 fittings... if they blow it up I'll just buy another. :-)

Edit:
Just worked this up on a Hound. What do you think?
High: Nos, Covops Cloak, Expanded probe launcher, 2x125mm AC
Mid: Scram, 2xWeb
Low: DC II, co-proc, 400mm plate.
4671 ehp, lock time of 3.3 seconds on 40 sig radius. Only goes 355m/s but that's faster than a scrammed double webbed drammy. Add rigs to taste... either scanning or armor rigs, I guess.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.09.10 22:40:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Henri Rearden
Just worked this up on a Hound. What do you think?
High: Nos, Covops Cloak, Expanded probe launcher, 2x125mm AC
Mid: Scram, 2xWeb
Low: DC II, co-proc, 400mm plate.
4671 ehp, lock time of 3.3 seconds on 40 sig radius. Only goes 355m/s but that's faster than a scrammed double webbed drammy. Add rigs to taste... either scanning or armor rigs, I guess.


comedy kill waiting for happen.

Henri Rearden
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.10 22:53:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Henri Rearden
Just worked this up on a Hound. What do you think?
High: Nos, Covops Cloak, Expanded probe launcher, 2x125mm AC
Mid: Scram, 2xWeb
Low: DC II, co-proc, 400mm plate.
4671 ehp, lock time of 3.3 seconds on 40 sig radius. Only goes 355m/s but that's faster than a scrammed double webbed drammy. Add rigs to taste... either scanning or armor rigs, I guess.


comedy kill waiting for happen.

When the safed-up dammy pops or when I stupidly try to use this against anything actually capable of putting out damage? Cause against anything else, practically, it's a deathtrap. But you get to engage on your terms... if you know your corpies are already in warp to you, pop up at point-blank, target and scram. Survive long enough for the real tacklers to arrive, scratch a faction frigate off the list. Won't work if they're moving, obviously...

Footoo Rama
Gallente
Beyond Control.
Posted - 2010.09.10 23:00:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Henri Rearden
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Henri Rearden
Just worked this up on a Hound. What do you think?
High: Nos, Covops Cloak, Expanded probe launcher, 2x125mm AC
Mid: Scram, 2xWeb
Low: DC II, co-proc, 400mm plate.
4671 ehp, lock time of 3.3 seconds on 40 sig radius. Only goes 355m/s but that's faster than a scrammed double webbed drammy. Add rigs to taste... either scanning or armor rigs, I guess.


comedy kill waiting for happen.

When the safed-up dammy pops or when I stupidly try to use this against anything actually capable of putting out damage? Cause against anything else, practically, it's a deathtrap. But you get to engage on your terms... if you know your corpies are already in warp to you, pop up at point-blank, target and scram. Survive long enough for the real tacklers to arrive, scratch a faction frigate off the list. Won't work if they're moving, obviously...


Except the dramiel will eat the sb faster then you can blink even if you are webbing him, since the SB cannot tank at all, and the dram will still be faster.

You never said you where hunting drams... hmm... your going to need a team esp if they have more then 1 dram messing with you. To effectively hold and kill a dram you really need at least 2 ships. An arazu should be able and maybe a falcon might be able to solo an average pilot in a dram but most dram pilots know how to play. They are very hard to catch when you have a cloak requirement on a ship... Honestly if a dram pilots see an arazu they are going to burn away fast

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.09.11 00:22:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Footoo Rama
Except the dramiel will eat the sb faster then you can blink even if you are webbing him, since the SB cannot tank at all, and the dram will still be faster.

You never said you where hunting drams... hmm... your going to need a team esp if they have more then 1 dram messing with you. To effectively hold and kill a dram you really need at least 2 ships. An arazu should be able and maybe a falcon might be able to solo an average pilot in a dram but most dram pilots know how to play. They are very hard to catch when you have a cloak requirement on a ship... Honestly if a dram pilots see an arazu they are going to burn away fast


there's also the 200mm AC wolf falloff fit option.
kinda of a 1-trick pony and it does not guarantee any results, specially vs 1< drams, and the engagement envelope only goes to up to 20km.

or probably a cynabal with 425's and fitted for improved tracking? ship gets massive falloff, especially when you slam 425's and barrage ammo, and with the right ammount of TE's you can actually track them quite well at the 30km range probably.

problem is, drams are not that hard to kill, if they're piloted by stupid pilots, which exist in heaps and mountains.

things get dicey if they are actually *good* pilots.



Henri Rearden
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.11 01:20:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Footoo Rama
Originally by: Henri Rearden
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Henri Rearden
Just worked this up on a Hound. What do you think?
High: Nos, Covops Cloak, Expanded probe launcher, 2x125mm AC
Mid: Scram, 2xWeb
Low: DC II, co-proc, 400mm plate.
4671 ehp, lock time of 3.3 seconds on 40 sig radius. Only goes 355m/s but that's faster than a scrammed double webbed drammy. Add rigs to taste... either scanning or armor rigs, I guess.


comedy kill waiting for happen.

When the safed-up dammy pops or when I stupidly try to use this against anything actually capable of putting out damage? Cause against anything else, practically, it's a deathtrap. But you get to engage on your terms... if you know your corpies are already in warp to you, pop up at point-blank, target and scram. Survive long enough for the real tacklers to arrive, scratch a faction frigate off the list. Won't work if they're moving, obviously...


Except the dramiel will eat the sb faster then you can blink even if you are webbing him, since the SB cannot tank at all, and the dram will still be faster.

You never said you where hunting drams... hmm... your going to need a team esp if they have more then 1 dram messing with you. To effectively hold and kill a dram you really need at least 2 ships. An arazu should be able and maybe a falcon might be able to solo an average pilot in a dram but most dram pilots know how to play. They are very hard to catch when you have a cloak requirement on a ship... Honestly if a dram pilots see an arazu they are going to burn away fast


Ermmm... if I have almost 5000 ehp won't it take at least 40ish seconds for me to die under the worst scenario? That's more than enough time for tacklers to arrive...
also, if the dramiel is scrammed and double webbed, shouldn't it be going like... 790 * 0.4 * 0.4 so... 126m/s if it has three overdriveII mods? Even with ab on, that would only be 384m/s with both webs, right? So they might make some distance, but if they have a web they won't have an ab anyway, and they could only get about 100 meters/second at worst. I'm not sure how they'd get away, especially if you only have to hold them for like 20 seconds.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.09.11 01:35:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 11/09/2010 01:41:44
Originally by: Henri Rearden
Originally by: Footoo Rama
Originally by: Henri Rearden
Originally by: Grimpak
comedy kill waiting for happen.

When the safed-up dammy pops or when I stupidly try to use this against anything actually capable of putting out damage? Cause against anything else, practically, it's a deathtrap. But you get to engage on your terms... if you know your corpies are already in warp to you, pop up at point-blank, target and scram. Survive long enough for the real tacklers to arrive, scratch a faction frigate off the list. Won't work if they're moving, obviously...


Except the dramiel will eat the sb faster then you can blink even if you are webbing him, since the SB cannot tank at all, and the dram will still be faster.

You never said you where hunting drams... hmm... your going to need a team esp if they have more then 1 dram messing with you. To effectively hold and kill a dram you really need at least 2 ships. An arazu should be able and maybe a falcon might be able to solo an average pilot in a dram but most dram pilots know how to play. They are very hard to catch when you have a cloak requirement on a ship... Honestly if a dram pilots see an arazu they are going to burn away fast


Ermmm... if I have almost 5000 ehp won't it take at least 40ish seconds for me to die under the worst scenario? That's more than enough time for tacklers to arrive...
also, if the dramiel is scrammed and double webbed, shouldn't it be going like... 790 * 0.4 * 0.4 so... 126m/s if it has three overdriveII mods? Even with ab on, that would only be 384m/s with both webs, right? So they might make some distance, but if they have a web they won't have an ab anyway, and they could only get about 100 meters/second at worst. I'm not sure how they'd get away, especially if you only have to hold them for like 20 seconds.
yeah ok, now look at your damage output, and then look at the dram's dps, and then look again at your HP, and then look yet again to the dram's HP, considering that many will fit a MSE, now look yet again at your weapons and your resistances, and then look again at the dram's weapons and their resistances.



....now tell me, who would've win?


edit: ok I just punched your setup on eveHQ to see how it handles.


considering that your setup packs just a bit over 4k EHP, and that a standart dram (with MSE) packs over 5k EHP. also considering that you will be doing just a teensy weensy bit above the 108dps, while the dram would be doing above 400dps with drones, also considering natural resists of your armor vs dram's shield...



well, just lookit dat... it's still a comedy kill.

Henri Rearden
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.11 01:46:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Henri Rearden on 11/09/2010 01:51:04
Originally by: Grimpak
yeah ok, now look at your damage output, and then look at the dram's dps, and then look again at your HP, and then look yet again to the dram's HP, considering that many will fit a MSE, now look yet again at your weapons and your resistances, and then look again at the dram's weapons and their resistances.



....now tell me, who would've win?


Uh huh...yeah, if I were planning on just trying to kill one solo, of course I would lose! Where did I ever say that was the plan? How many different places did I make references to the real tacklers warping in once I snuck up on them? Wouldn't it make sense to run away once they engaged? I'm beginning to think nobody actually reads... so, just to make it clear, this is ONLY for holding them down until the inties and other tacklers arrive. This ship is ONLY meant for sneaking up on safespotted frigates, and the autos are only to get on the killmail. Does everything make more sense now?

I just saw your edit... it'll be funny to see people respond to the fit as a kill fit. :-) Also, how on earth can you get a dramiel to do 400 dps? Because the best I can do in a realistic skirmish fit is quite a lot less, even with drones. What did I miss? And if drams routinely put out 400dps, why don't people rat battleship npcs with them?

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.09.11 01:49:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Henri Rearden
Uh huh...yeah, if I were planning on just trying to kill one solo, of course I would lose! Where did I ever say that was the plan? How many different places did I make references to the real tacklers warping in once I snuck up on them? Wouldn't it make sense to run away once they engaged? I'm beginning to think nobody actually reads... so, just to make it clear, this is ONLY for holding them down until the inties and other tacklers arrive. This ship is ONLY meant for sneaking up on safespotted frigates, and the autos are only to get on the killmail. Does everything make more sense now?



considering the dps a dram dishes out, your 4k EHP hound will last less than 10 seconds.


is 10 seconds good enough to hold them?

you can also only hold one dram at a time.


all things considered, using a bomber as a dedicated tackler for a dram is like petting a lion.

you would lose your hand, and the lion would win a free snack.

Henri Rearden
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.11 01:56:00 - [26]
 

Ermmm... again, what kind of dramiel puts out 400 dps? With warrior IIs, a pair of faction-ammo T2 200mm acs, and three T2 gyros, I get 226 dps. No skirmish Dram will do anywhere near that...

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.09.11 02:01:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Henri Rearden
Ermmm... again, what kind of dramiel puts out 400 dps? With warrior IIs, a pair of faction-ammo T2 200mm acs, and three T2 gyros, I get 226 dps. No skirmish Dram will do anywhere near that...
Laughing

yeesh, sorry read it wrong.


you're still ****ed up tho, since you'll die fast.

Henri Rearden
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.11 02:30:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Henri Rearden on 11/09/2010 02:37:57
By my calculations I would live 30 seconds or longer, since it is unlikely that they'll be doing any more than 150dps. A set of trimarks would buy a few more seconds. That seems sufficient to hold them to me... they'll probably panic when the tacklers arrive and they still can't move.

Edit: If there is more than one, you're absolutely right, better to not engage and just call corpies in without pinning them down first. Shouldn't waste iskies, after all. :-)

Vall Kor
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.09.11 02:40:00 - [29]
 

Plated Arazu's make great "bait" ships, just covert cyno the pain in. Evil or Very MadTwisted EvilYARRRR!!

Aus Nova
T.A.L.O.N. Company
Posted - 2010.09.11 03:06:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Profit jr
Originally by: Henri Rearden
So, there are a few guys who like to play hide and seek with us, and they're getting boring. I was wondering if it is possible to fit a covops frig with a passive targeting mod and target them while cloaked, then immediately scram and tp when corpies warp to me and arrive on grid, so the target can't run away before the real tacklers get ahold of them. Has anybody else tried this? Scanning ship and surprise tackle in one?



LOL annoyed you keep getting your precious ratting ships blown up? :D

He could be looking to blow up someone else's ratting ship XD


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