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Ensen Whitestar
Posted - 2010.09.04 19:08:00 - [1]
 

Hello Everyone!

I wonder if it could be possible to improve the invention system. As we all know, we can build tech2 stuff by inventing it. But what if we also could improve or reduce the stat we are currently inventing.

We keep all the current principle of invention. But we add 2 combo box with the attribute we wish to improve. Based on your skill, you can improve it by 25 %. Depending on what your current level if your skill are.
But the tect two copies will still be a BPC.

That will make some good scientist making more profit.
Also, we could add the possibilities to alter the color of the hull of our ship. At the cost of time and material.

Can we make some research on existing BPO tech 1 to improve it or alter the bonus of some ship by those we want ? Like a Rokh having a 5 % bonus on hybrid damage or change it to make the Rokh use the energy weapon?

It's a suggestion I make.

What do you think ?

Ensen Whitestar





Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.09.04 19:19:00 - [2]
 

There are countless ways invention could be improved.
Quite a few of them require minimal coding from CCP.
They're not happening, in spite of being discussed quite often.
That should tell you something.

Also, you want this in the "features and ideas" subforum, the elephant graveyard of suggestions.

Qoi
Exert Force
Posted - 2010.09.04 19:37:00 - [3]
 

This would be a MASSIVE undertake for programmers and game designers. You probably would have to change the basic foundation of eve (the inventory system) for this to work. Also, balancing this would be hellish.

I can't see anything good coming from this suggestion, as interesting as it may be.

SurrenderMonkey
Posted - 2010.09.04 19:55:00 - [4]
 

Quote:
Can we make some research on existing BPO tech 1 to improve it or alter the bonus of some ship by those we want ? Like a Rokh having a 5 % bonus on hybrid damage or change it to make the Rokh use the energy weapon?

It's a suggestion I make.

What do you think ?


That's a really awful idea that would be impossible to balance.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2010.09.04 20:09:00 - [5]
 

Any improvements to invention will surely result in price drop of T2 items. So no

Sierra NightShade
Posted - 2010.09.05 03:08:00 - [6]
 

Invention was touted years ago as a suppliment to the lottery. It replaced the lottery which was great. Every new generation has its own ideas of what Invention is or should be. 5 years on and I can say nothing is certain. I've seen boosts and nerfs and currently its as good as I've seen it. The decryptor and datacore market is once again balanced and profits can be had. Datacore and decryptor prices will fluctuate according to the benefits they grant and unless CCP does away with a fixed system and grants a variable the player can choose exchanging chance,runs,ME and PE you will continue to see what you see now. The is the nature of the free market.

I've thought long and hard about this over the years and the idea of a single variable decryptor would end up in a bad spot as that one do-it-all omni-decryptor would sell for its value of high demand high profit ships or based upon the best possible chance of a success which an omni-decryptor could grant. You would likely see prices spike to 50 or even 60 million isk maybe more as I've seen in the past for high chance decryptors. Again free market. I'm being redundant here your demand,success and profit will dictate the price of the decryptor.


Sierra NightShade
Posted - 2010.09.05 03:17:00 - [7]
 

One could place variable decryptors in game via exploration or perhaps even through research agents but at what cost? Fixing cost will fix the market and we will see BPO owners either screwed or once again dictating market prices through fixing. $250 million isk Cerberus anyone? No thank you.

I think we as a whole should weigh our proposals to CCP carefully before screaming for a buff or nerf. I'm not discouraing you by any means because I also invent! I just dont want to have to lose billions of isk helping stabilize a market that has already been through some troubled times.

Ensen Whitestar
Posted - 2010.09.05 12:24:00 - [8]
 

Akita T
Very sorry to have botter you ... surely ... that discourage some good people having good idea. Mine might be very bad. As some say.
Let me clarify the my idea.
you have quantum level 2 and hydromecanics level 2. Trying to invent a invul fields 2.
In my head. You have to rool every hour a table.
0 - 100
because you have 10 % average in both fields you have a possible set back of 15 %
so if the average after the time request to make the invention you are below 15% then you don't have a gain but a penalty.
Between 16 to 89. No gain.
90 to 100% you have a gain.
Now the gain will be between 1% to 10% that you will roll on delivery. The copie will be limited to 1 license.
Now... again sorry if i didn't take the good channel.
I personnaly don't take a impossible as a response. I prefer working hard to find a solution. Also, i didn't follow the game forum since it's beginning. So, again very sorry to bother the old one.
This is the last entry i will do.
Please accept my sincere appologize. Also thanks for those response event if it's not a favorable response.
Have a nice day all

Sierra NightShade
Posted - 2010.09.05 12:56:00 - [9]
 

Quote:
Very sorry to have botter you ... surely ... that discourage some good people having good idea. Mine might be very bad. As some say.



Hey Ensen although not directed at me,if I may,discussing ideas is not a bad thing. This is how we go about improvements in all things and no matter what some may say CCP does listen. They simply have to weigh the options based upon a great many variables that we as players may not recognize. Do not let others tell you what you propose is a bad idea. Let CCP glean what they may from your idea.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.09.05 13:42:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 05/09/2010 13:48:47
Originally by: Ensen Whitestar
Very sorry to have botter you ... surely ... that discourage some good people having good idea. Mine might be very bad. As some say.

Meh, it doesn't bother me to discuss ideas, not even relatively bad ones... if I haven't heard them 20 times over already, that is. It's just this particular field (invention) has been talked about so often and even low-intensity suggestions get ignored/shelved/delayed, so there's next to zero practical chance of something more complex making it through.
Your idea in particular is a slightly different variation of what used to be called "branding", and people have been talking about it in some form or another for as long as I have been playing (4+ years), long before invention was even an idea at all.

Using a modified invention system to accomplish a milder form of branding is not a bad idea per se, but it's most likely never going to happen thanks to the way the inventory system is designed.
It's actually a nice idea, but completely impractical, at least for now.

Short version example : say you have 345 packaged "item x", all in a stack, doesn't really matter what "item x" is. The only think that the inventory system knows is the amount of items (345) and the item type ID (unique for "item x").
All actual attributes of the item do not actually exist except as a link to the attributes of the type of "item x".
That means that if you want to have a slight variation of "item x", you have to create a completely new item, "item x2", with a different TypeID, which you also must fully define. Not just that, but you also have to create the corresponding blueprint and recycle profiles.

In order for your idea to even be possible in the first place, the inventory system would have to be radically altered, and the resulting database would be huge enough to create problems for the current hardware, and... well, I think you can guess where this is going.

RentableMuffin
Posted - 2010.09.05 13:50:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
Any improvements to invention will surely result in price drop of T2 items. So no


and why is that a bad thing?

Emporer Norton
Posted - 2010.09.05 16:55:00 - [12]
 

The 2 ideas I have would be:
1.) 3 new skills 1 each runs me and pe me and pe skills would increase me/pe by 1 or 2/lvl so max of either 1 or 6 at max skills before decrypter runs if put in would give bonus to output runs could be before or after decrypter mods I'd say would be more balanced doing before if 20%/lvl on max run mod/ammo bps would give 2 runs bonus/lvl for ships/rigs would need lvl 5 to get a bonus and would be 1 run on max run bp's

2.) Allow me/pe research on bpc's at pos only could either be in mobile/adv lab or could be new type of lab research would require same materials skills and time as if bpo so would be up to individual if want to research but would need to be done for each bpc

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.06 08:49:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 06/09/2010 09:01:57
Originally by: Ensen Whitestar

What do you think ?



Almost impossible to balance and a nightmare for the database.

Currently if you use a rokh there is 1 entry for it in the database.

Add the possibility to tweak the 3 tanking stats and the capacitor charge, the powergrid and the CPUs.

If you can tweak only one factor at a time you get 6 extra variants, 2 mean 36 extra variants, 3 156, 4 516, 5 1236, 6 2956, and all that without changing the skin or the ship bonuses.

Multiply that for all the T1 and T2 ships in the game and you will get an idea of the increase in the database load your suggestion generate.

Originally by: Emporer Norton

1.) 3 new skills 1 each runs me and pe me and pe skills would increase me/pe by 1 or 2/lvl so max of either 1 or 6 at max skills before decrypter runs if put in would give bonus to output runs could be before or after decrypter mods I'd say would be more balanced doing before if 20%/lvl on max run mod/ammo bps would give 2 runs bonus/lvl for ships/rigs would need lvl 5 to get a bonus and would be 1 run on max run bp's



The skills will become mandatory skills for everyone doing invention.

The few people doing low key invention with low skills will be pushed out of the invention field until they decide to train the skills, people doing invention as a profession or even a side activity done fairly often will train the skills.

After a few weeks/months (depending of train time) the price of T2 items will adjust to the new "common" levels of ME and PE and inventors profit (in percentage) will be the same while BPo owner will lose a bit.

It is even possible that gross profit for inventors will decrease.

All considered almost a non change beside lower T2 prices and the used up training time.

Nothing really bad in the suggestion but nothing really good too. [emote: shrug]




Drexciyian
The Water Margin Tech
Posted - 2010.09.08 09:12:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
Any improvements to invention will surely result in price drop of T2 items. So no


T2 prices are way to low as it is, invention needs nerfing imo

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2010.09.11 20:11:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: RentableMuffin
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Any improvements to invention will surely result in price drop of T2 items. So no


and why is that a bad thing?


Guess you're not an economist are you?

Berikath
Posted - 2010.09.11 20:49:00 - [16]
 

IMHO- Change invention to allow invention of BPOs.

HOLD OFF ON THAT FLAME!

Invented BPOs go up 1 meta level and have their production and research time increased by a factor of 1.75. Max level of meta 4. Whee- suddenly we can make meta 2/3/4 items! However, meta 4 item takes over 9x as long as a meta 0 item, so your profit per line is gonna be basically nil unless it's a REALLY heavy use item.


Other possibility: Failed invention jobs return (or have a significant chance to return) a low-run BPC of a meta 1-4 version (for modules, I guess... ships wouldn't work so well). Maybe have a VERY small chance of giving a single-run copy of faction or higher quality item? 1 in 100,000 jobs gives a single-run officer BPC! Wewt!! ;)

Neither is really NEEDED, per say... but it would be nice to have some theoretical way to craft everything in game.


 

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