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lylaal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.13 14:23:00 - [301]
 

just remove the highway connections and space will be alot bigger again since you cant travel across 5 regions in 20 jumps then.

THERisingPHOENIX
Caldari
Posted - 2010.09.13 14:25:00 - [302]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX
Originally by: Rowbin Hod
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX

Complete removal of gates in null sec YARRRR!!
Add mini jump drive for all ships (Different from capital ship jump drive).
-Can only jump neighbouring system one by one

What's a neighbouring system if there are no gates?

Judging by light years?

Then the range is defined by LY, not 'neighbour'..


Yea, watever u want to call it

Mindnut
Posted - 2010.09.13 14:25:00 - [303]
 

The way I see it...

All people that like having a lot of targets around to hunt down will keep saying that we don't need more space.

All those who have small alliances in high sec that don't stand a chance against more experienced gigantic alliances will keep saying we need more space so that everyone gets a chance in claiming space.

The question is; what can be done to satisfy both?

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.09.13 14:36:00 - [304]
 

Originally by: Mindnut
snip
The question is; what can be done to satisfy both?

Balance is needed in any case..

You also got the people who are sick of local as intel tool and the people who would like that space (especially the space within solar systems) should feel bigger than now.. how many POIs are there per system? The stations, the gates, some belts/moons/exploration content.. that's it.. nothing else there to fly to or check out. No system-wide belts. No comets. No freaking big gas clouds. No possibility to warp into any direction for how long you want and especially no incentive to do it.

Mindnut
Posted - 2010.09.13 14:45:00 - [305]
 

Edited by: Mindnut on 13/09/2010 15:18:20
Edited by: Mindnut on 13/09/2010 14:46:11
Originally by: Tres Farmer

Again.. somebody staring at local as measurement tool for population density.


Go to a system in 0.0 where map told you there is nobody around stay there and see what happens. Bring friends while you're at it, you'll find out sooner. Better yet, bring a rorqual and mine some rare roids, lol.

I know that there are a lot of systems that aren't populated. The problem is that they are under control by big alliances that live close by and they will form a gang to kick you out. If you're alone you're pretty safe but try bringing in a mining op with a rorqual into the system. The first passerby will report you in their intel channel and you're in for a big loss. Try claiming space in a system like that. Good luck, hope you have a 500 man alliance with 200 men online at all time...

If we were reduced to half as many systems that wouldn't fill up the empty systems we have now. It would turn the most popular systems to look like jita.

A small alliance that is 50 jumps away from the big allaince would not be as frequently attacked as the alliance that is closer. Travel and distance would become one of the key factors in making a decision as to whether attack or not.

Distant places would be populated by smaller alliances that could fight against each other in smaller numbers with less lag. They would have the possibility to stay far away from more experienced ones. If additional sov. couldn't be gained in far away systems, but only in the adjacent systems it wouldn't allow alliances with sov. to claim different parts of space. I would keep them in one place.

There is also annother problem that causing the alliances to constatly keep growing. It's the game itself. We all know that the best sollution for a big fleet is a bigger fleet. Ofc skill and experience matters but not that much. It's all about numbers, so every alliance keeps growing. Obviously the biggest alliance in eve will be the strongest one. The ease of travel is making alliances control far more space then they actually need. If one has 20 systems under sov. the closest 50 will always be empty and nobody who's weaker will want to fight for them.

So, even if we double the number of players we have now it's still not going to fill up the empty systems

Hagbard23Celine
Liga Freier Terraner
Ev0ke
Posted - 2010.09.13 14:48:00 - [306]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer
To me it seems you won't consider/can't think two-three steps ahead.. just one.


I think itís the other way round. Youíre thinking only about nice traveling.
Have you ever traveled around in a frighter? Itís really fun traveling 2 hours from Jita to Amarr but hey we got some nice space we can look atÖ
Same if you are 10 Jumps out in a recon and on the way back to formup for a fleet. Depending on the route you need with the system we have today 10-15min to do but 30min would be much better because the universe feels that small.
I could go ahead with a lot more examples but I suggest you to leave high sec and go to 0.0 space and go for a roam on your own and i swear you would be impressed how big eve really is!

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.09.13 16:42:00 - [307]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 13/09/2010 22:28:32
Originally by: Hagbard23Celine
Originally by: Tres Farmer
To me it seems you won't consider/can't think two-three steps ahead.. just one.

I think itís the other way round. Youíre thinking only about nice traveling.
Have you ever traveled around in a frighter? Itís really fun traveling 2 hours from Jita to Amarr but hey we got some nice space we can look atÖ
Same if you are 10 Jumps out in a recon and on the way back to form up for a fleet. Depending on the route you need with the system we have today 10-15min to do but 30min would be much better because the universe feels that small.
I could go ahead with a lot more examples but I suggest you to leave high sec and go to 0.0 space and go for a roam on your own and i swear you would be impressed how big eve really is!

Freighter.. yeah.. 2 weeks ago, think it had been 30 jumps. And yeah, that's the point.. make it take even longer and people will start to consider again if it really is rational to shuffle all that stuff to Jita or if <put-any-2nd-lvl-hub-here> might also suit.
And I also was collecting datacores recently in viators.. think 100+ jumps at the end of the day per char to get them all together.. didn't look forward to it and thus collect them only every 6 months or so.

Again.. why do you need to roam 10+ systems to find people? Why is the population density in low/null so low?
And on the other hand.. in empire many complain about too may people in local and the high population density for the limited stuff that's there.

If you connect the two you see that there isn't enough to do for people in the space there already is.
So you have two possibilities here:
  1. More POIs per system, slower warps, another balanced intel.. so in low/null there can be more as the systems can sustain them and it takes longer to get to all.
    If balanced right you get the same fun out of less systems, so more people can have fun in the same space. On top of that, high will feel less crowded.

  2. Or, just add more systems with actual mechanics and see how they get 'claimed' by the established powerblocs as it doesn't matter that they need one more jump to reach you. You then just have to roam 20+ systems instead of 10 to find the same number of targets and all the while you got no better protection for targtes from hotdrops and the like as the intel system hadn't been adjusted..
    And as there wont be new high sec you got no change there.. cool.

Hagbard23Celine
Liga Freier Terraner
Ev0ke
Posted - 2010.09.13 17:14:00 - [308]
 

Or, what i would prefere, fix sov system and allow small corps / allys to survive in 0.0

Siiee
Recycled Heroes
Posted - 2010.09.13 19:20:00 - [309]
 

An alliance does not need sov to project it's influence over an area, fixing sov won't fix the problem.

Increasing system density should leave the distance between people similar to what it is today in populated areas. Instead of doing a short 20 jump roam, instead you make 6 jumps, and check 3 "pockets" in each system. Same amount of content, same amount of people, and only slightly more travel time. If you decide to take your gang out to try and gank a lone ratter all out in the boonies then ya, it is going to take you a while to get out there, that's their reward for having very long supply lines themselves. If you want to fight on the frontier fly light and use a covert for scouting.

If you're an hour away from a fleet forming up, why are you so far away in the first place? Does it matter if that distance is 15 jumps of dense systems or 45 jumps on TQ now? If you want to roam with a bunch of pirates that tend to gather up on Kheram III maybe you should be close to them and plan about this ahead of time. Making the game more strategic makes it more interesting, local influences become more important, and it effects Sovereign systems the same was as empire systems.

Khanaris Asgarth
Eternium Industries
Posted - 2010.09.13 19:28:00 - [310]
 

Originally by: Siiee
An alliance does not need sov to project it's influence over an area, fixing sov won't fix the problem.

Increasing system density should leave the distance between people similar to what it is today in populated areas. Instead of doing a short 20 jump roam, instead you make 6 jumps, and check 3 "pockets" in each system. Same amount of content, same amount of people, and only slightly more travel time. If you decide to take your gang out to try and gank a lone ratter all out in the boonies then ya, it is going to take you a while to get out there, that's their reward for having very long supply lines themselves. If you want to fight on the frontier fly light and use a covert for scouting.

If you're an hour away from a fleet forming up, why are you so far away in the first place? Does it matter if that distance is 15 jumps of dense systems or 45 jumps on TQ now? If you want to roam with a bunch of pirates that tend to gather up on Kheram III maybe you should be close to them and plan about this ahead of time. Making the game more strategic makes it more interesting, local influences become more important, and it effects Sovereign systems the same was as empire systems.


Very valid points. Making systems have more content +influence across a solar system mean something would go a long way to improving the world.

Jack NovemberSeven
Posted - 2010.09.14 03:43:00 - [311]
 

Edited by: Jack NovemberSeven on 14/09/2010 03:43:22
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Jennifer Fenring
Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 03/09/2010 07:14:37
I also do miss some space "wilderness".

When I look at the map and see that most systems are part of some alliance or other EVE looks more like a suburb with 50k inhabitants than "endless space" that's supposed to be 99.99% empty. It looks like space but it doesn't really feel like space.


Only way to enforce wilderness is making regions like Outer Ring. Lack of stations, poor sec and unclaimable. Want a few regions like that on the edge or something?


make it a full ring surrounding the galaxy

Jekyl Eraser
Posted - 2010.09.14 03:56:00 - [312]
 

Traveling is too easy and fast

Remove the highways and change warping so that you need to do 2 warps to get to a location. First inaccurate to random location 1AU from target and then accurate to the exact location.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.14 03:57:00 - [313]
 

Grayscale, I used to wonder if you had your head on straight... but this thread has set me straight. Thanks for your attention to it. :)

-Liang

Siiee
Recycled Heroes
Posted - 2010.09.14 07:01:00 - [314]
 

Originally by: Jekyl Eraser
change warping so that you need to do 2 warps to get to a location. First inaccurate to random location 1AU from target and then accurate to the exact location.


Now there is the definition of tedium. It forces a flat 20-30 seconds of loiter time per warp regardless of distance, punishes people with proper intelligence, offers no differentiation between warp speed tiers or opportunities for interdiction, completely removes the need for gate scan bookmarks and greatly increases the ease of escaping a fast pursuer. I could go on.

It's a much more delicate balance than just "more time = fixed", tho if I'm missing some other subtlety potentially in that mechanic please correct me.

Mindnut
Posted - 2010.09.14 13:19:00 - [315]
 

I agree with Siiee...

A longer warp will have many unwanted efects on other game aspects. Also it's going to enlarge the distances betweent the 4 main factions we have now. I think the high sec distances are fine. By adding systems to make New Eden +-600 jumps wide your making only the 0.0 space part bigger.
Leave the empire as it is, it's fine. Just add a lot of systems to increase the space available for claiming and to increase the travel time so that big alliances won't be able to control 1/5 of the 0.0.

I suggested this in the previous post but didn't give any detaled numbers so maybe that's why ppl keep on going about 20 jump roaming gangs.

If eve's 0.0 space had 600 jumps across and sov. could only be gained in adjacent systems big alliances could only be growing on the spot they have now and to attack any of the alliances that are 600 jumps a way they would have to fly there. That would mean a great effort. Even if they fly over there they won't do it daily. They won't be bothered to fly 600 jumps to kick ass every day... And that's the whole point of this concept. This gives an opportunity for the smaller alliances to survive and grow to become a good strong enemy. Ofc that's what we want isn't it? More experianced players to have fun with - pew pew.

If you're looking at a gang of 10 ppl roaming and trying to find a target it wouldn't change much. Soon after the new systems would be introduced a LOT of people would move out to 0.0 seing they now have a chance. Soon you will have 0.0 space filled with players just as it is now.

Atm there is a LOT of alliances in high sec that won't go out to 0.0 to claim sov. only because they know what will happen. A blob attack cause the hostiles can be there in just a few minutes. The way I see it sov. gives a chance to upgrade your system but isn't the key factor for controling soace - the ease of travel is. I'd say that an alliance is able to control as much space as they can protect and they don't need to hold official sov. for that. Their influence will reach out as far as they are bothered to fly.

Having a 200 man blob come and destroy your new sov. structures/POS's should be a "RISK INVOLVED" not a "CERTAINTY" as it is now. And the attacks will come daily so if you're weaker you don't stand a chance. They come and put your POS's into reinforcement. If you're weaker you won't come to rep the POS's, you'll let the enemy to come back and destroy them the next day. In revenge you go and put their POS into reinforcement, but you won't come to fight them when they are repping it the day after.

I strongly belive that having more 0.0 systems and that little change in sov. is the key to solving many problems and saying that it will cause less interaction between players is just an excuse.

1. A roaming gang can always pick a part of the space that is more populated. Go to Delve and hunt for ratting ships for example.
2. Player interaction is wanted in the game so no matter how big you make the galaxy people will always be looking for other people.


Mindnut
Posted - 2010.09.14 13:37:00 - [316]
 


Noun Verber
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.14 14:03:00 - [317]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Noun Verber
Greyscale, what is your opinion of the 'Wild West' system of space where everything was required to be built by players?


My opinion is that it could be pretty neat :)

Oh, well played sir.

Mindnut
Posted - 2010.09.14 14:49:00 - [318]
 

another thoughtÖ

Iím going to use an example here, a conflict between IT and North Coalition. These guys got so big that battles turned into a slug-fest. I was in one of them and I had serious problems with getting placed on the grid. I had to log Sad One side of the map is fighting the other and not many can fit somewhere in the middle. Smaller Corps/Alliances are forced to join the big alliances if they want to get some space under sov. Thatís only making the lag-fest battles bigger. How much longer can these alliances grow?

If you introduce more space youíre going to allow smaller more localized conflicts to take place. This will lower the number of ships that take place in one battle.

I donít know how adding more systems would efect the server so Iím not saying this for sure but maybe it would lower the lagÖ
Whatís responsible for the lag, number of battles that take place at the same time or having 300 vs 300 people fight in one system?

Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.09.14 15:21:00 - [319]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
This sort of approach is broadly similar to one of the "thumbnail sketch" designs we've been fiddling about with in the margins (so to speak). I'm quite partial to using capacitor charge percentage as a proxy for noise (where lower = noisier), because it ties nicely into a lot of systems (what happens when you warp, for example?). It's entirely possible that this sort of approach would cause too much server load though - see above.
This feels more like a reverse d-scan, where the other guy needs to micromanage his cap to try and stay undetected, rather than you actively searching for him. While I think not many people will agree, I like the idea of hiding taking more pilot skill (keeping cap up is a gigantic pain in >cruiser). At the moment all it takes is a cloak.

Now, cloak should stay as it is, but it should at the same time mask you from said reverse d-scan only up to a certain degree. If you're at 30% cap and someone is not too far away from you (i.e. you just warped cloaked), you're going to show up on their d-scan. You still won't show on their grid if you land there, but they know you're somewhere near, much like they would with local. This would also counter bombers trying to pull off rushed bomb attacks. Bunch of bombers just showed up on d-scan? They're probably landing on grid after a long warp, time to warp off. Carefully planned bombing would still work fine though.

This solution also promotes missiles and projectiles, because they don't drain cap. Especially missiles need some kind of boost in pvp, as they're currently very rarely used. Also, cap boosters would become more valuable. Getting chased by a blob? Warp to deepish safe, pop an 800.

And ofcourse, interceptors should have a huge bonus. Say, the only ship that can detect other ships outside of 1au range if their cap is above 85%. Otherwise one might as well bring covops. >90% and >10au distance undetectable? Should probably scale with system size, say because of interferance (or lack of it) due to celestial density, so you can't hide forever in a large system.

Also, maybe rather than current cap status, use the average cap drain+fill in the last 10 seconds, so people can't circlejerk with guardians/basilisks to keep everyone's cap at 100% and stay undetectable at all times.

Kaw Almarenta
Posted - 2010.09.14 16:17:00 - [320]
 

Originally by: Nuts Nougat
Bunch of bombers just showed up on d-scan? They're probably landing on grid after a long warp, time to warp off. Carefully planned bombing would still work fine though.

Small ships usually regen the cap mid-warp.

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.09.14 16:27:00 - [321]
 

A lot of really interesting ideas in this thread. As always the balance is how do you allow for both the player who wants to PVP and the player who wants to PVE without making it a haven for one and a hell for the other?

Couple of off the cuff ideas I've had:

1) New type of K-Space with a different Gate mechanic... Imagine if gates were rare or unreliable? What if you needed something akin to cynos to get around? Perhaps if this is alien space, a new alien type of pseudo cyno tech?

2) What if Security Status of systems fluctuated rather than remained static? For example, as the "backstory" of Empire/Concord NPC activity goes on, status can change. The Gallente Federation is doing a large military operation in what is normally a Low sec area? Sec Status increases over time until it reaches High sec status, then maybe goes back down. Likewise, NPC Piracy increases in HiSec systems might actually degrade the sec status temporarily.

As a corollary, provide a means for Player activities to influence this one way or the other. Here is a new type of pseudo PVP activity - Sec Status manipulation.

3) I would love to see a lot more done with W-Space. a few options:

a) Wormhole Generation/Suppression - While W-Space can not have Sovereignty, imagine anchorable devices that could potentially inhibit or generate wormhole activity. The former perhaps not unlike a cynojammer. Make it really expensive to run and consume large amounts of fuel, but teh ability to say, go on vacation for a few days and know that you can lock down a system at least partially could be useful. Likewise, having some ability to direct wormhole generation could be good.

b) Islands of K-Space inside W-Space. A Wormhole from within a nested Wormhole (ie not from a wormhole originated in Hi/Lo/00) could lead to far flung space that has a pocket of systems with gates (perhaps alien gates). Wormholes in this pocket will lead to other wormholes, but not back to Empire/00. If there are Alien Factions these could even have equivalencies to Hi/Lo/00 status.


Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2010.09.14 17:20:00 - [322]
 

Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 14/09/2010 17:22:51
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I agree, and to begin with the most I'd suggest is adding another k-space (call it K2), certainly no bigger than the existing one (K1), with the same sorts of resources, but no reliable way to get them back to K1 in any great volume. That would mitigate any effects on the K1 market.

...

The existing power blocs would definitely have the expertise to get things going initially, but even if they did manage to exclude any new-founded colonisation attempts, every pilot who moved to K2 would still be one less pilot crowding up K1, for all practical purposes.


I don't like another k-space 'totally cut off from all the existing' k-space.. might as well open a new server for that.
We're playing a MMO here.. not a sharded universe.



You're ignoring the '...except via W-space' part. The 2 k-spaces would only be slightly more cut off from each other than K-space currently is from the deepest parts of W-space, and if people really wanted to, nothing would stop them from travelling between the two. The idea is that it would just be easier to pick one K-space and settle there, just as people currently tend to pick one area of 0.0 rather than travelling all over it.

Siiee
Recycled Heroes
Posted - 2010.09.14 21:43:00 - [323]
 

Don't get me wrong Mindnut, I've argued at length for the increase of travel time (particularly because of it's effects on empire space :p) I'm merely pointing out that some methods of making travel time longer are tedious and detrimental. It's not just the time involved that needs to change but the way that it's added is critical to it's effects on travel.


Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
The idea is that it would just be easier to pick one K-space and settle there


So you replace one small world with two small worlds that are somewhat difficult to transfer between en-mass. I think it's a potentially interesting bit of world shaping, but on it's own it would do little but split the server population which isn't going to do much to change how power is projected over the existing systems and leave the scale feeling much the same.

Baljos Arnjak
Posted - 2010.09.15 00:27:00 - [324]
 

I have an idea for making the time you spend in warp a bit more interesting that's in two parts.

Part one: Make warp times dynamic by allowing the player to set their warp speed (within min and max values). Higher speeds means exponentially heavier capacitor usage and some ships are already specialized toward very fast warp speeds (dictors, cov-ops, blockade runners, etc). I think this would be interesting because you might have to adjust your setup if you were in a hurry to get somewhere.

This also has the added element of player skill. The player would have to guestimate how much capacitor they would need to get somewhere at the optimal speed, and this would change as the distance to destination changes. Could make for good races and lets people specialize further in the art of interception.

Part two: Add a module that allows a ship to be tracked during warp and basically autopilots the ship into the enemy's warp tunnel. This module would have to complete a cycle before the ship enters warp.

Once they catch up, they could pull them out of warp (maybe another module, or a script in another of the same module), tackle them and hold out for reinforcements. So, now the target is vulnerable at all times, but the attacker is also vulnerable because they used up a ton of their cap for a max speed warp.

I realize this would be nigh-impossible to program but imagine actually giving a real chase to someone instead of "GET EM!!, GET EM!!, dang it...he warped before we could scramble....". Or on the flip-side, "Get to warp before he can scramble me! *hold breath* I got away! Oh...wtf, he got into warp at the same time as me...WTF!! Why am I dropping out of warp?! I'm still 30AU away! Ah, crap, I'm scrambled! HALP!!!" Laughing

In empire this wouldn't be much of a problem because of the risk of concordokken, but in lowsec/0.0/w-space it would increase the demand for tacklers and allow small gangs to harass larger gangs. Plus it could allow combat to take place outside of static objects like gates and stations.Twisted EvilEvil or Very MadLaughing

Luke S
Zeta Corp.
Posted - 2010.09.15 17:15:00 - [325]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Razin
As has been said already, unless you ambush someone on a gate, people will do their best to safe/dock/pos if faced with a prospect of nonconsensual pvp. Instant local makes sure of that. So being able to see everyone in local to find targets is a placebo argument against delayed local. What we would really need are some better scanning tools that make the pursuit fun and the risk of being caught real but manageable.



Yup, I agree with this. Just going to delayed isn't much better or worse than current, but the advantage of the current system is at least it's a lot faster and you're just scanning systems with actual people in, rather than scanning every single system on the route. The ideal solution is a proper, well thought-out system that makes the whole thing better and more fun for all concerned. This may or may not happen at any given point in the future.


Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil
Regarding the need to D-Scan every system to find other players, have you considered creating a new class of module that will basically automate D-scanning?


I imagine that CCP Atlas would probably have me hung, drawn and quartered if I tried to implement something like that Smile The directional scanner does not make the server particularly happy as it is.

Originally by: James Lyrus
I want submarines in space. Something with an 'active/passive' sonar style model (think 'hunt for red october'), and a progressive detection - ships gradually showing more info as you scan the (scan for them).
And automatic - passive sonar is 'always on'. Active 'sonar' is toggleable, but if it's on, it's on and automatically tells you when it spots something.
(of course, given you're broadcasting, they can spot you quite easily too).


This sort of approach is broadly similar to one of the "thumbnail sketch" designs we've been fiddling about with in the margins (so to speak). I'm quite partial to using capacitor charge percentage as a proxy for noise (where lower = noisier), because it ties nicely into a lot of systems (what happens when you warp, for example?). It's entirely possible that this sort of approach would cause too much server load though - see above.



How about combining the capasitor idea to the current scan system. the capacitor scanner will add a function to see witch ship is online and active.

Originally by: CCP Greyscale

Originally by: Matthew
The point being that there is nothing to do while in warp. There is no interaction with any other players, or even with the environment. You can't even abort the warp half-way through if you change your mind. It's basically just waiting for a number to count down while watching a pretty swirly graphical effect.

Travelling 5 jumps feels like a journey because you have a series of points of interaction, points of risk, along the way. This is good gameplay. Spending 5 minutes in warp just feels like an excuse to go fetch a drink. This is not good gameplay.

Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure what the solution to this is - it's largely a limitation of the warp travel model itself. I'm just sure that decreasing warp speeds is not it.


I buy this argument too. It's a bit swings-and-roundabouts though IMO, particularly if you compare it to a game with more interactive travel, like say LotRO. On the one hand EVE travel is much less engaging and often "feels" longer because you're not actually doing very much, but on the other hand it gives you the opportunity to do other things while traveling - you can be chatting and browsing the market and so on without slowing yourself down.



Why not have a mini game in the client for the player to use when waiting o.O?



Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.09.15 17:28:00 - [326]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 15/09/2010 17:29:14
Originally by: Mindnut
another thoughtÖ

Iím going to use an example here, a conflict between IT and North Coalition. These guys got so big that battles turned into a slug-fest. I was in one of them and I had serious problems with getting placed on the grid. I had to log Sad One side of the map is fighting the other and not many can fit somewhere in the middle. Smaller Corps/Alliances are forced to join the big alliances if they want to get some space under sov. Thatís only making the lag-fest battles bigger. How much longer can these alliances grow?

If you introduce more space youíre going to allow smaller more localized conflicts to take place. This will lower the number of ships that take place in one battle.

I donít know how adding more systems would effect the server so Iím not saying this for sure but maybe it would lower the lagÖ
Whatís responsible for the lag, number of battles that take place at the same time or having 300 vs 300 people fight in one system?

If you introduce more space they just need to jump a little bit further with their fleet to reach you..

If you add more systems you create more basic load for the server nodes (each system is represented by at least one process (Locator node) if a player is in the system. Several of those run on one core.

Responsible for the lag is the limited power one CPU core has and the fact, that at best one Locator node can run on one CPU core alone. From Sunday 10 days ago we know that it can handle around 2k people doing everyday stuff (trade, docking, little bit spaceflight). Fleets will be tested next according to the dev blog about it from some days ago.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.09.15 17:30:00 - [327]
 

Originally by: Luke S
Quote:
snip

Why not have a mini game in the client for the player to use when waiting o.O?

That's already there and called planetary interaction.Twisted Evil

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.09.15 17:46:00 - [328]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 15/09/2010 17:48:06
Originally by: Bernard Schuyler
A lot of really interesting ideas in this thread. As always the balance is how do you allow for both the player who wants to PVP and the player who wants to PVE without making it a haven for one and a hell for the other?

Couple of off the cuff ideas I've had:

1) New type of K-Space with a different Gate mechanic... Imagine if gates were rare or unreliable? What if you needed something akin to cynos to get around? Perhaps if this is alien space, a new alien type of pseudo cyno tech?

Wont help population densities and universe-feels-so-small high sec nor low sec if placed in null-sec?..

Originally by: Bernard Schuyler
2) What if Security Status of systems fluctuated rather than remained static? For example, as the "backstory" of Empire/Concord NPC activity goes on, status can change. The Gallente Federation is doing a large military operation in what is normally a Low sec area? Sec Status increases over time until it reaches High sec status, then maybe goes back down. Likewise, NPC Piracy increases in HiSec systems might actually degrade the sec status temporarily.

As a corollary, provide a means for Player activities to influence this one way or the other. Here is a new type of pseudo PVP activity - Sec Status manipulation.

Probably very hard to balance, though it has its merits. Redefining the sandbox.. or even letting the players change the sandbox they play in Wink
If this ever is to be considered it won't be around the corner for at least another 5-10 years I guess and CCP needs to grow ballzy balls to allow something like that.. in other words: Make and Be absolutely sure we (the players) wont (be able to) screw it up.

Originally by: Bernard Schuyler
3) I would love to see a lot more done with W-Space. a few options:

a) Wormhole Generation/Suppression - While W-Space can not have Sovereignty, imagine anchorable devices that could potentially inhibit or generate wormhole activity. The former perhaps not unlike a cynojammer. Make it really expensive to run and consume large amounts of fuel, but teh ability to say, go on vacation for a few days and know that you can lock down a system at least partially could be useful. Likewise, having some ability to direct wormhole generation could be good.

Not supported. It's bad that you got POS in there and kind of produced a semi-permanent presence with tactical advantages over any aggressor.. manifesting that with the ability to close down the access-points to that system is just sick.

Originally by: Bernard Schuyler
b) Islands of K-Space inside W-Space. A Wormhole from within a nested Wormhole (ie not from a wormhole originated in Hi/Lo/00) could lead to far flung space that has a pocket of systems with gates (perhaps alien gates). Wormholes in this pocket will lead to other wormholes, but not back to Empire/00. If there are Alien Factions these could even have equivalencies to Hi/Lo/00 status.

Another semi-shard-approach.. the population(s) there will be cut off from the rest of the interaction with new eden. And whats the incentive to go there? PvE-bear alone until you cancel your account?
Anyways.. won't solve your problem with a universe that feels to small..

Mindnut
Posted - 2010.09.16 16:08:00 - [329]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer

If you introduce more space they just need to jump a little bit further with their fleet to reach you..



Sure, if you indtroduce another 1000 systems it's not going to change much. My suggestion (read earlier post and look at the jpg I linked) was to add a significant amount so that distance would start to matter Rolling Eyes

I respect you right to have an opinion, but it seems to me you're here only to tell ppl different...
Yet you run a 1 man corp that has never joined any alliance. Have you ever been to 0.0? I sure hope this is your alt.

Anyway, I don't want to argue. It's good that some people are still interrested in this topic.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.09.16 18:38:00 - [330]
 

Originally by: Mindnut
Originally by: Tres Farmer

If you introduce more space they just need to jump a little bit further with their fleet to reach you..

Sure, if you introduce another 1000 systems it's not going to change much. My suggestion (read earlier post and look at the jpg I linked) was to add a significant amount so that distance would start to matter Rolling Eyes

If CCP wanted this kind of solution there would be new systems every 5k more players.. so I assume that they're prob kind of happy with the actual numbers and what they got.
>> But as space feels small already we might point that out to them..

Originally by: Mindnut
I respect you right to have an opinion, but it seems to me you're here only to tell ppl different...
Yet you run a 1 man corp that has never joined any alliance. Have you ever been to 0.0? I sure hope this is your alt.

Anyway, I don't want to argue. It's good that some people are still interrested in this topic.

Well, someone has to be the devils advocate, no? Twisted Evil
And, yeah, this is my forum-alt and I've been to null.. not in big fleet fights though. Not my kind of game.


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