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Lady Immortal
Posted - 2010.08.29 20:47:00 - [31]
 

The idea isn't a bad one, I've maintained a highsec island of trade for awhile now in a fairly busy system (it's basically perma camped anytime after 1900 eve time until downtime.)

I've been there for almost two years so I know the pirates fairly well at this point. They still try to catch my alt which is kind of amusing to me, Though I think at this points it is almost in jest.

I used to bring my freighter through constantly (3 lowsec jumps) - I did that about four times a week until I bought a jump freighter and now it's easier to just jump into a lowsec system behind the camps.

People will adapt and yes it would hurt the newer players, because for alot of them they start doing the mining/trading thing. It may make the game a bit rougher to start but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

mr rens
Posted - 2010.08.29 20:48:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: mr rens on 29/08/2010 20:48:50
Originally by: Simply Human
Originally by: mr rens
Edited by: mr rens on 29/08/2010 20:32:18
Originally by: Simply Human
You mean old and new players, right?


No, I meant good and bad.

Basically any time you introduce complexity to the game it allows for differentiation of results based on playstyle (in this case, we'll call that "skill" and call people without skill "bad").


In what way will player ability allow a t1 industrial to get through a gate camp?


I'm not sure, but I'm also not that good. :)

edit: just a nitpick here. I'm not really in support of this, I just wanted to know why, from a design perspective. I've put up a few thoughts but they're pretty limited at best.

Suah Sponte
Posted - 2010.08.29 20:49:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula

How would people protect a hauler from an alpha strike right after it uses a gate and gets primaried?

I'm sure some corps or alliances have enough people to clear out multiple lowsec systems before bringing the haulers in, but with that much work needed, you'd be turning profitable trading into something only large alliances can do.

. . .

Because there's not enough attention paid to those areas. If lowsec was put between empire spaces it would be a feeding frenzy along those routes the likes of which the game has never seen. For about a week. Then everyone would either train up to blockade runners and trade small items, or say to hell with it and go back to mining or mission running.


Are you just trolling or are you truly that unimaginative? One person with a jump freighter and a cyno alt can easily transport anything between empires if there were lowsec between them. Otherwise, you can always use a blockade runner. Or *gasp* move your center of production out of Jita . . . OR . . . open a second production center!

Wouldn't it be awesome to have a more decentralized economy where Jita isn't the center of everything?

Yes, it would be more challenging to transport goods between empire hubs; but if you are a dedicated trader or hauler, isn't that what you'd want? A more exclusive profession?

I personally support this 100%.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.08.29 20:57:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Jump. Freighter.


Why not just delete all haulers from the game except JFs and Blockade Runners while we're at it. There's not going to be any worthwhile hisec routes anymore, so you may as well. No one will be using them.

Trade in this game would turn into nothing more than 'Buy one of those two ships. Safely make it through lowsec. Profit', and you wouldn't get your PvP free-for-all either.

Try not obsessing about more easy targets and think about how it would affect the game world as a whole for a second.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2010.08.29 20:59:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Simply Human
Originally by: mr rens
Edited by: mr rens on 29/08/2010 20:32:18
Originally by: Simply Human
You mean old and new players, right?


No, I meant good and bad.

Basically any time you introduce complexity to the game it allows for differentiation of results based on playstyle (in this case, we'll call that "skill" and call people without skill "bad").


In what way will player ability allow a t1 industrial to get through a gate camp?


Most good eve players have some form of social skills and imagination, with enough social skills and imagination you can get any ship through any gatecamp (well except supercaps )Embarassed.

Lady Immortal
Posted - 2010.08.29 21:02:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Jump. Freighter.


Why not just delete all haulers from the game except JFs and Blockade Runners while we're at it. There's not going to be any worthwhile hisec routes anymore, so you may as well. No one will be using them.

Trade in this game would turn into nothing more than 'Buy one of those two ships. Safely make it through lowsec. Profit', and you wouldn't get your PvP free-for-all either.

Try not obsessing about more easy targets and think about how it would affect the game world as a whole for a second.


Not sure why you feel this way, They would still be required for any number of things. Miners use haulers always. Manufacturers use freighter's always, and you'll find due to the fact they are amazing speed demons any freighter pilot that's clocked any real time in it will opt to use it only for short trips anyway.
Also I don't think the OP is intending there to be single route, If ccp did this there would have to be a number of viable routes between empires. (probably minimum of 5 different routes between empires?)

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2010.08.29 21:08:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Doddy on 29/08/2010 21:11:59
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Jump. Freighter.


Why not just delete all haulers from the game except JFs and Blockade Runners while we're at it. There's not going to be any worthwhile hisec routes anymore, so you may as well. No one will be using them.

Trade in this game would turn into nothing more than 'Buy one of those two ships. Safely make it through lowsec. Profit', and you wouldn't get your PvP free-for-all either.

Try not obsessing about more easy targets and think about how it would affect the game world as a whole for a second.


If you think the only worthwhile hisec routes are between empires you are deluded, also you are sadly out of touch if you think only pirates want trade to involve more than "set badger mk2 autopilot to jita", "set badger mk2 autopilot from jita to random hi sec mission hub", profit. The oppurtunitys for skilled traders to make isk would be massive (as they are no longer competing with the 100% of the playerbase capable of setting an autopilot) and the proffession way more rewarding.

If people actually had to think it would benefit the game world alot, unless by benefit you mean make ridiculously easy so its not worth playing.

Even if inter-empire trading did take a hit (which it very likely wouldn't) it would be to the massive benefit of industrialists (especially new ones) and local traders, as they would be able to sell in local markets with less direct instant competition from the Jita monster. The biggest problem this game has is the centralized market and universal resources (at a basic level).

Suah Sponte
Posted - 2010.08.29 21:17:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Jump. Freighter.


Why not just delete all haulers from the game except JFs and Blockade Runners while we're at it. There's not going to be any worthwhile hisec routes anymore, so you may as well. No one will be using them.

Trade in this game would turn into nothing more than 'Buy one of those two ships. Safely make it through lowsec. Profit', and you wouldn't get your PvP free-for-all either.

Try not obsessing about more easy targets and think about how it would affect the game world as a whole for a second.


Okay, sorry I asked the question. Obviously, he is just trolling. Otherwise, he is just one of those ubercarebears that doesn't want any sort of challenge in the game (the sort who advocate for a pvp-free shard).

I've run a highsec-only trade operation in Caldari space for about 3 months now. I started with 100 million isk. I now have 3 billion isk in cash and assets. The number of jumps? Seven. Seven jumps which I've done every time in a badger mark 2. I've never left Caldari space.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.08.29 21:24:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/08/2010 21:25:28
Originally by: Doddy
If you think the only worthwhile hisec routes are between empires you are deluded


Once again, you're not looking at the big picture, and how these changes would affect the game world.

With even more people crowded into smaller empire areas, trading things there while they train up to a blockade runner, you'd see prices become pretty even within an empire. You also wouldn't have to worry so much about people coming from other hubs and undercutting you if these changes were made. Economies becoming more isolated doesn't exactly encourage competition.

I do agree with what someone else said about mining providing a use for haulers, even though you can get by using an Orca instead. Still, would be a shame if CCP had to change the description and story for most haulers to say they're for helping miners, and not for trade.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2010.08.29 21:26:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Lady Immortal

People will adapt and yes it would hurt the newer players, because for alot of them they start doing the mining/trading thing. It may make the game a bit rougher to start but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.


It wouldn't make it tougher for a new trader/industrialist at all, quite the opposite. Currently you start out as an industrialist, you try to build something for profit, you lack the skills to do it 100% efficient, you get undercut by trade shipped in from jita or your prospective customer goes to jita and buys it for 5% less instead. If that trade required more effort/cost to get from Jita to your system you are more likely to be able to compete. Same thing for trade, market changes in jita can wipe you out instantly even though you are many regions away, and you are always trading against all the max skilled people in eve. You are a new player who choses to mine then the crap price you get is dictated by the price the bots are selling it for in jita People like to imply this is somehow true to life but its not.

Lady Immortal
Posted - 2010.08.29 21:36:00 - [41]
 

Sorry I suppose i wasn't entirely clear. It may hurt in the hauling department the first time someone tells them to goto jita or what not - But I think in the long run it's better for new and older alike as there is less competition in some regions, Furthermore it would open regions that have no real market hubs at the moment and decentralize considerably.

I think these are all good things and see no real issue with this proposal.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2010.08.29 21:41:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/08/2010 21:25:28
With even more people crowded into smaller empire areas, trading things there while they train up to a blockade runner, you'd see prices become pretty even within an empire. You also wouldn't have to worry so much about people coming from other hubs and undercutting you if these changes were made. Economies becoming more isolated doesn't exactly encourage competition.



This is the problem. Isolated economies do encourage competition. Compare small town and village city centres before and after a supermarket moves in, or how the city centre dies whan the bypass to the shopping centre is finished, or how a countries industrial sector ceases to exist when it opens its borders to free trade, its exactly the same thing only in eve everything is much closer together and there are no assosiated costs with transport, storage, sales etc plus the market is much smaller and there is no possibility for new products etc unless ccp patches them in. Currently interests in jita have the buying power to control all the prices in eve hi sec. The only way for small independent local interests (and new players) to survive is if there is some isolating mechanism.

You keep saying it is me not looking at the big picture but i fear it is quite the opposite.

ChrisIsherwood
Posted - 2010.08.29 21:42:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Suah Sponte

Wouldn't it be awesome to have a more decentralized economy where Jita isn't the center of everything?



Of course not. Humans have been creating trade hubs for thousand of years because of the benefits of trade hubs. They are more efficient and more convenient. If buyers or sellers wanted to, they could trade in thousands of systems. Jita formed because it benefits the players for economic reasons. If Jita did not exist, there would be a hub somewhere else.

The issue that you don't address is that this change would increase lag; i.e., many players leave EVE, CCP has less revenue, which results in fewer developers, so maybe the 18-month plan takes 24 or 36. 91% of the characters killed zero ships according to the QEN; new players can't JF and many players can't be forced to low-sec.

TBH, I think this would make EVE more EVE-like; just not sure why CCP would spend money programming something which would dramatically lower their revenue just for some pirates who erroneously think significantly more ships would go through their gate camp.

Aurum Bellator
Posted - 2010.08.29 21:58:00 - [44]
 

The idea that everyone will quit the game if a change is made that makes a particular function more challenging is as old as this game itself, if not older.

"Waaahhhhhhh, if you do this, I QUIT!" is the same as those who said "Waaahhhhhhh, if George Bush is elected, I'm moving to CANADA!"

Meanwhile, subscriber base keeps growing. Wow.

AUB

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.08.29 22:00:00 - [45]
 

If CCP decided to create the four empires into high security islands surrounded by low security space, then CCP could design and expand upon other past ideas:

- Players are automatically "kill on sight" with their racial enemy if found within the enemy borders.

- Discrete, well hidden, and exceptionally well defended black market hubs in the deeper recesses between empires.

- Ship restrictions in the high security areas: jump freighters could jump into a nearby low security area, but the empire governments will allow only tech one freighters into their space.

- Expanded costs' multipliers depending upon the buyer's race: that is, a Caldari pilot sells on the market to a Caldari pilot at a 1 to 1 ratio, a 1.5 to 1 ratio to an Amarrian, a 3 to 1 ratio to a Minmatar, and a 10 to 1 ratio to a Gallente pilot!

- No direct player to player trades but deals with a broker that interacts and charges accordingly.

Other thoughts if I think of them (or remember).

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.08.29 22:02:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/08/2010 21:25:28
With even more people crowded into smaller empire areas, trading things there while they train up to a blockade runner, you'd see prices become pretty even within an empire. You also wouldn't have to worry so much about people coming from other hubs and undercutting you if these changes were made. Economies becoming more isolated doesn't exactly encourage competition.



This is the problem. Isolated economies do encourage competition. Compare small town and village city centres before and after a supermarket moves in


Let me put it this way, i worked in a video store during highschool, and since it was a small town they had an arrangement with the only other one, their 'competition', to both keep their prices identical instead of some price war which would hurt them both. You'd see much more of that kind of thing, and it would also be easier to just buy up everything yourself to raise the prices.

When these large walmarts or whatever land somewhere they simply buy vast quantities of merchandise for all their stores and get a better discount than smaller buyers, so they can sell it cheaper than anyone else in the area can. If they didn't have any competition at all, and were the only source for everything, you can bet they'd jack the prices up as much as they possibly could.

Anyway, i don't care about it enough to continue for pages here. Alot of people clearly want it to happen very badly, so it's futile to argue with them anyway.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2010.08.29 22:11:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: ChrisIsherwood
Originally by: Suah Sponte

Wouldn't it be awesome to have a more decentralized economy where Jita isn't the center of everything?



Of course not. Humans have been creating trade hubs for thousand of years because of the benefits of trade hubs.


Hubs being a plural. The reason there is only one real hub and its in Jita is because of the highways (and Jitas large number of stations). Same goes for why Yulai was a hub before Jita.

I fail to see how there would necessarilly be more lag. The majority of eve players could care less where they go to buy items or ships, or that they would need to fly a frigate to travel (which most do anyway). Alot would enjoy it.

As to ccps priorities you are right that they do have far more imortant things to worry about than the broken trading system, i doubt its fixable anyway. Also background wise concord presence would infact be highest in the borders between the empires (to stop them fighting each other and to prevent cross-border terrorism etc) so there is no reason to do it from that standpoint.

91% of characters having killed no ships is irrelevant tbh, i have 12 chars if you include trade and cyno-alts and only 1 of them has killed other ships in the last year, doesn't mean i would quit the game if there was more low sec.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2010.08.29 22:31:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/08/2010 21:25:28
With even more people crowded into smaller empire areas, trading things there while they train up to a blockade runner, you'd see prices become pretty even within an empire. You also wouldn't have to worry so much about people coming from other hubs and undercutting you if these changes were made. Economies becoming more isolated doesn't exactly encourage competition.



This is the problem. Isolated economies do encourage competition. Compare small town and village city centres before and after a supermarket moves in


Let me put it this way, i worked in a video store during highschool, and since it was a small town they had an arrangement with the only other one, their 'competition', to both keep their prices identical instead of some price war which would hurt them both. You'd see much more of that kind of thing, and it would also be easier to just buy up everything yourself to raise the prices.




People buying up stock in Jita raises the price everywhere. As to the trading agreement that wouldn't happen much in eve, both traders would assume they could undercut the other and drive them off in order to have the market to themselves Evil or Very Mad Also each empire is still pretty big ....

In the supermarket analogy there is only the supermarket left so it can set any price it likes, with the buying power at its disposal it also forces down prices paid to suppliers, who in turn cut jobs, wages or go out of business, to maximise profits it also cuts wages.

TLDR consumer pays less for groceries but is on a lower wage or unemployed so the benefit is an illussion. In Rl there are protections against these things (planning offices, monopolies commissions, trade unions) in eve there are none.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.08.29 23:21:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Jump. Freighter.

Why not just delete all haulers from the game except JFs and Blockade Runners while we're at it. There's not going to be any worthwhile hisec routes anymore, so you may as well. No one will be using them.

If you want to move large quantities (bulk) you'll still use a freighter.. just not any more for a afk-flight from Rens over Dodi to Jita and further down to Amarr..

And as has been pointed out, if CCP implements this the right way (enough ways between the empires) and a sound bounty-hunter-system it could work.
You're always so negative to anything.

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Trade in this game would turn into nothing more than 'Buy one of those two ships. Safely make it through lowsec. Profit', and you wouldn't get your PvP free-for-all either.

Yeah, sure.. people on the other side of the fence wont have BPO/Cs nor minerals to built from.
Do you think at least a second before you reply?

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Try not obsessing about more easy targets and think about how it would affect the game world as a whole for a second.

You seem to like a small eve where you set AP, leave the keyboard for 30mins and come back and your freighter has made 8 jumps from Amarr to Jita.
That's why there are nearly no regional differences for prices anymore. You just can't load your ship up with something, fly it through dangerous territory, make it and hit gold (or **** in case you didn't made it).. but that's the point.

Would regions starve? No.. there are belts everywhere.. BPO/Cs too..

Everyone, even the QEN talks about deflation and that prices keep falling.. miners can't earn that much anymore etc pp. .. do you think at least a second about the bigger picture here?
If mission runners need a BS in every region to keep their standings with the opposing factions level it won't hurt the market..

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.08.29 23:43:00 - [50]
 

Isolate empires and mostly the rich and old players benefit, how well I'll tell you Timmy they have the alts trained for JF/blockade runners and the isk to buy them/replace them should they get taken down. They have the isk to bribe pirates/hire mercenaries to get through dangerous space, they are the ones who will want to bring their goods, be it moon goo, tech 2/3 crap to all the markets and they are the few who probably can do it all. Newer players, even a year or so could be older, don't, all you'll leave them to work with is whatever the big boys don't want/can't be bothered with.

On top of all this you are just trying to create more prey for all the hunters, which boosts the hunters, and they are already trying to eat each other for prey. What is next when all the people you expect to flush into your traps don't show up? Expand lowsec cause Empire is too big or not enough people are falling down the kill chute?

There makes no sense for Empires to have lawless pirate controlled or lax security between each other. Rather they would want better security to stop any invasion or trespass into their sovereignty, nor would it benefit the many corporations, trade in general or the market as the elite have an easier time controlling regions with less competition from numerous smaller outfits.

Aurum Bellator
Posted - 2010.08.30 00:33:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Aurum Bellator on 30/08/2010 01:45:42
Originally by: Bhattran
mindless drivel

Buddy, seriously, get up, put your pants on like a big boy, and quit casting yourself as the hopeless victim of all the big bad few of the 'privileged' class. Do you even know how long it takes to train for a blockade runner? No? Try about 30-45 days. Jump freighter, rightfully so, takes longer, but then again you don't need a jump freighter unless you are transporting huge amounts of goods.

When I came back to the game after a 5 year hiatus, I had to start a brand new account and character. So I'm about 4 months old. And I've got several billion isk in assets and cash, all from trading. And I stay entirely within one empire, and I never leave high sec.

I try my best to see things from your perspective. I just can't. This game is about going out there and making it in a harsh, difficult world. I love that. Removing the highsec highways BETWEEN EMPIRES would be very thematic.

AUB

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.08.30 00:38:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 30/08/2010 00:42:05
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 30/08/2010 00:39:35
Originally by: Bhattran (fixed)
Isolate empires and mostly the rich and old bold and brave players benefit, how well I'll tell you Timmy they have the alts trained for JF/blockade runners guts and the isk to buy them/replace them should they get taken down nerves to stand the risky business. They have the isk to bribe brain to avoid pirates/hire make friends with mercenaries to get through dangerous space, they are the ones who will want to bring their goods, be it moon goo, tech 2/3 crap to all the markets and they are the few who probably can do it all. Newer players, even a year or so could be older, don't can do this too, all you'll leave them to work with is whatever the big boys don't want/can't be bothered with and that will leave them with more than they have now as profits will rise across the board.

On top of all this you are just trying to create more prey for all the hunters differentiation/specialization, which boosts the hunters clever, and they are already trying to eat each other for prey counter the dumb and lazy. What is next when all the dumb and lazy people you expect to flush into your traps don't show up make eve a more boring place for all? Expand lowsec cause Empire is too big or not enough people are falling down the kill chute?

It makes no sense for Empires to have lawless pirate controlled or lax security between each other as they're in a state of war. Rather they would not want better security to stop any invasion or trespassers into their sovereignty, nor would as it would benefit the many local corporations, trade in general or the market as the elite locals have an easier time controlling regions with less competition from numerous smaller foreign outfits.

There, fixed it for you Wink

Zirse
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.08.30 01:02:00 - [53]
 

I support this, but if CCP were to go ahead and do this someday, I think a few things would need to be considered.

1. Keep high-sec the same size, just 'move' the low-sec into a barrier position between the empires. There might need to be additional low-sec systems created. There would also need to be at least 4 different routes between each empire.

2. Diversify the empires by making mineral and module drop-rates highly variable between empires. This would really necessitate a healthy smuggling/blockade-running profession.

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.08.30 02:00:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Aurum Bellator
Originally by: Bhattran
mindless drivel

Buddy, seriously, get up, put your pants on like a big boy, and quit casting yourself as the hopeless victim of all the big bad few of the 'privileged' class. Do you even know how long it takes to train for a blockade runner? No? Try about 30-45 days. Jump freighter, rightfully so, takes longer, but then again you don't need a jump freighter unless you are transporting huge amounts of goods.

When I came back to the game after a 5 year hiatus, I had to start a brand new account and character. So I'm about 4 months old. And I've got several billion isk in assets and cash, all from trading. And I stay entirely within one empire, and I never leave high sec.

I try my best to see things from your perspective. I just can't. This game is about going out there and making it in a harsh, difficult world. I love that. Removing the highsec highways would be very thematic.

AUB


If that were true you would, you realize not everyone plays the same 'EVE', not everyone knows what other players know, not everyone takes the same path to wherever, not everyone has the same time to play or even the same 'end goal' before they switch that to something else. A player might start mining then PVP or missioning then trade or any number of routes to doing this or that and trying different things that don't earn them billions of isk in 4 months like you did, good jorb on that too.

It isn't about 'poor me' but nice attempt at a troll, some pity points to 'fixed it' kid after you as well. You and those crying for lowsec could take your own advice and act like a 'big boy' and accept that most players don't want to play the mouse to your cat, get over it, grow up and fight each other. Go to 00, wardec griefer/mercenary corps in highsec/lowsec, there are numerous possibilities for you to find the PVP you crave but that doesn't fit your idea of how it should be because many of the lowsec whiners don't want real PVP they want victims who aren't prepared to fightback or don't know how to do it so you won't/don't do the above. Real pirates didn't seek out 'equal' fights so you shouldn't either right cause you're all real pirates and stuff arr! YARRRR!!

I don't see the denial about how this benefits those of means because it is true, them and the lowsec pirates that 'everyone' is supposed to be and of course who always need help in finding victims, enter nerfs to all things highsec and carebear cause that ain't playing the game 'right'.


Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.08.30 02:30:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Bhattran
snip
It isn't about 'poor me' but nice attempt at a troll, some pity points to 'fixed it' kid after you as well. You and those crying for lowsec could take your own advice and act like a 'big boy' and accept that most players don't want to play the mouse to your cat, get over it, grow up and fight each other. Go to 00, wardec griefer/mercenary corps in highsec/lowsec, there are numerous possibilities for you to find the PVP you crave but that doesn't fit your idea of how it should be because many of the lowsec whiners don't want real PVP they want victims who aren't prepared to fightback or don't know how to do it so you won't/don't do the above. Real pirates didn't seek out 'equal' fights so you shouldn't either right cause you're all real pirates and stuff arr! YARRRR!!

Sorry mate. 100% non-pvp player here (well, for the pew-pew-part that is) hehe..
I'm arguing from the market-profit-trade-industrial-manufacturing-pov here.

Longer traveling/harder moving of stuff will cause higher costs on things that now get moved around New Eden via AFK-Industrial/Freighter. This leads to a blown-up-have-em-all central main-hub and a highly-efficient-market in one place. But we wouldn't play Eve if we wanted easy gratification, would we?
CCP is beefing Jita until it can handle all the trade there is in high sec.. have fun with that.

Originally by: Bhattran
I don't see the denial about how this benefits those of means because it is true, them and the lowsec pirates that 'everyone' is supposed to be and of course who always need help in finding victims, enter nerfs to all things highsec and carebear cause that ain't playing the game 'right'.

That's just poor argumenting.
Nobody is gonna harm carebears with this proposal.. run missions in high sec all you want, mine all you want.. fly around your region/faction-area in all safety with WTZ.

Eve was big once. Every gate 15km approach until gatebookmarks became the norm.. CCP only gave into the easy solution there and made this kind of clever usage of ingame methods available to the broad public at NO cost (and to avoid the server dying).
Until this time Eve had several comparable trade hubs. Sure there was one large also and will always be.. but the other ones weren't as pitty as today.

AureoLion
Posted - 2010.08.30 04:14:00 - [56]
 

Fine.
Then, increase warp stab strenght to +6 and allow it in all 3 slots, freighter base warp strenght to +30, quintuple the haulers tank, triple the freighter.
and triple the damage of the sentry guns, since we're here.
i'm not even sure that would give pirates a realistic chance of fail.
"Clearing" a path is ******ed, an ambush would all too easy to do. That would set back whoever doesn't have a JF, basically.
i'm all in for lowsec borders, but give haulers a realistic chance of survival.

Aurum Bellator
Posted - 2010.08.30 04:41:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Bhattran

It isn't about 'poor me' but nice attempt at a troll, some pity points to 'fixed it' kid after you as well. You and those crying for lowsec could take your own advice and act like a 'big boy' and accept that most players don't want to play the mouse to your cat, get over it, grow up and fight each other. Go to 00, wardec griefer/mercenary corps in highsec/lowsec, there are numerous possibilities for you to find the PVP you crave but that doesn't fit your idea of how it should be because many of the lowsec whiners don't want real PVP they want victims who aren't prepared to fightback or don't know how to do it so you won't/don't do the above. Real pirates didn't seek out 'equal' fights so you shouldn't either right cause you're all real pirates and stuff arr! YARRRR!!

I don't see the denial about how this benefits those of means because it is true, them and the lowsec pirates that 'everyone' is supposed to be and of course who always need help in finding victims, enter nerfs to all things highsec and carebear cause that ain't playing the game 'right'.




I'm not a pirate and I haven't even intentionally PvPed yet. Haven't got the skills since I've only been training indy skills. I don't support lowsec borderlands because it would 'benefit' pirates, although maybe it would. I support it because of the diversification of the game and the new career opportunities it would bring.

I just don't understand all of these posts about people getting ganked, give indys a chance, etc. The game mechanics to make a trade run through lowsec are ALREADY in place. It's called a blockade runner (e.g., Crane -- look it up). For those of you who aren't familiar with the ship, it's a tech 2 industrial ship; the BRs can fit covert ops cloaking device and are very fast. If you get killed in one of those, it is just sheer bad luck or sheer incompetence (bad luck is spawning w/in 5km of an enemy thus can't cloak -- but even then you should be able to align and warp quickly enough not to be killed).

Then if you really want to move large amounts of stuffs get a jump freighter. Yes, it is a large investment. But you can get anywhere in the world very very fast with lots and lots of stuff.

This is not about forcing people into lowsec. It has never been about that. It's about creating new and interesting career opportunities in the game. If there were lowsec borders around each empire, and the drop rates for modules were tweaked for each empire, and different asteroids spawned in different quantities in different empires (for example, say isogen were abundant in Amarr space but Mexallon were more rare; and Mexallon were abundant in Caldari space . . . . what would happen? PROFIT!)

I suspect that less than 1% of the player base ever travels between empires on a regular basis; and those who do, could easily do it in a frig. Remember, no bubbles in lowsec.

AUB

yourdoingitwrong
Posted - 2010.08.30 05:01:00 - [58]
 

sir your post is far too logical and sensible, perhaps you meant... "Troll" "Troll" waaaahhh I want it I want it *kicks legs*

Dharh
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
Posted - 2010.08.30 05:14:00 - [59]
 

Ultimately it wouldn't accomplish much of anything. At best you might shrink Jita.

There would be no influx of people into low-sec. Inter-empire trade would most definitely shrink. I daresay prices would rise, trade would be interrupted, and noobs would weep.

Many people have zero interest in any PVP aspect of EVE.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.30 06:38:00 - [60]
 

It is fun to note how the people saying "players will adapt" in this and other similar threads are exactly the same people that want the game to be changed to suit their playstile instead of adapting to the actual game.

Coherency is not their strong suite.


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