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blankseplocked Cyclone/Cane v Drake
 
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Leslie D'gay
Posted - 2010.08.20 00:21:00 - [1]
 

I'm a drake pilot and mission runner who's started to pvp more recently. I'd like to cross over to using minmatar ships full-time (really really tired of flying this drake and pewing missiles).

I'm in the middle of my int remap still plugging away at fitting, shield, and nav skills (most are at IV). Would either a cyclone or a cane make a decent shield-tanked mission runner while I get side-tracked on gunnery skills a while, or will I be better served sucking it up and flying the drake until I can adequately fit them?

I've plugged both ships into EFT and they seem a little bit harder to fit (then again, i'm not really sure how to fit a cyclone since there aren't too many fits around to go by) than the drake. Any fits, tips, or opinions would be appreciated.

Irae Ragwan
Posted - 2010.08.20 00:44:00 - [2]
 

I can't be bothered to look it up for you, but I found a decent cyclone fit on battleclinic a while back and I also recall Liang posting a few cyclone fits here in the forums (although that could have been months ago, don't remember when). As for hurricane fits... you really can't forum search or google them without getting hit in the face by a hundred of them. Have a look and you should find some gems in there. Shield tanking both (the cyclone is obviously meant to be active shield tanked) isn't an issue and they both make very suitable lvl3 misison runners/plexers although i'd hazard a guess that the drake is superior on both counts in most situations.

At the end of the day you just have to do what keeps the game interesting. So what if you're rolling around in a somewhat less-efficient ship for a while? If you wanna smash the keyboard because you've looked at the flying waffle iron for one too many months then you ought to go ahead and train those minmatar skills and have some fun.

Ashira Twilight
Posted - 2010.08.20 00:46:00 - [3]
 

Stick to the drake. If you're in the middle of your in/mem remap, training all the gunnery support skills will be a pita.

Frozean
Posted - 2010.08.20 03:49:00 - [4]
 

Stick to the drake.

Both their HM-TP fit , and the HAM-tackle fits are very very good for a battle cruiser.

Not to mention they are very useful in lv 3 and lv 5 missions

Leslie D'gay
Posted - 2010.08.20 04:58:00 - [5]
 

Thanks, guess I will tough it out with the drake for now. Resisting the temptation to shatter my perfect skill plan is hard work. Sad

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.08.20 05:04:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Leslie D'gay
Thanks, guess I will tough it out with the drake for now. Resisting the temptation to shatter my perfect skill plan is hard work. Sad


Laughing don't sweat it broski bro. the drake is a good ship, man all you gotta do its fint dsome pvp fit and rockx someones face. low sec aint sarcy

Leslie D'gay
Posted - 2010.08.20 05:10:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Leslie D'gay
Thanks, guess I will tough it out with the drake for now. Resisting the temptation to shatter my perfect skill plan is hard work. Sad


Laughing don't sweat it broski bro. the drake is a good ship, man all you gotta do its fint dsome pvp fit and rockx someones face. low sec aint sarcy


lol

Frozean
Posted - 2010.08.20 05:11:00 - [8]
 

Yes. Just remember. If you want to pvp, you want numbers. As long as you have 5x the enemy numbers, you have a good chance not to die.

Fleet mates are there to die for you. You just put 4 bcu, wateva fav weapon system and pew pew

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.08.20 05:24:00 - [9]
 

man fu k e-un iand their bloby **** man. get like 80 more bp,e tahn us in local n its like "WAH WHA BITSCHES WERE NTO PIRATES!!!!"

aya **** oy .u its liek wtf man u got 8 0 rme poele and woooo you wont nengae my 01 batelships!!

fu k htm e

Alua Oresson
V I R I I
Posted - 2010.08.20 10:59:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Alua Oresson on 20/08/2010 10:59:39
Originally by: Liang Nuren
man fu k e-un iand their bloby **** man. get like 80 more bp,e tahn us in local n its like "WAH WHA BITSCHES WERE NTO PIRATES!!!!"

aya **** oy .u its liek wtf man u got 8 0 rme poele and woooo you wont nengae my 01 batelships!!

fu k htm e


Liang, could you please translate that into english?

Alt Tabbed
Posted - 2010.08.20 11:08:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
man fu k e-un iand their bloby **** man. get like 80 more bp,e tahn us in local n its like "WAH WHA BITSCHES WERE NTO PIRATES!!!!"

aya **** oy .u its liek wtf man u got 8 0 rme poele and woooo you wont nengae my 01 batelships!!

fu k htm e


udrunk?

SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Aperture Science inc.
Posted - 2010.08.20 15:47:00 - [12]
 

The hurricane and cyclone are nice ships. They excel more in pvp than pve.

For pve stick to your drake, DON'T switch to hurricane/cyclone regardless of your skills with those ships.
For pvp it is all a bit tricky.

The main reason everyone loves/hates the drake is because pve 'noobs' with relatively bad skills (aside from shield and missiles) can still rock a drake in pvp easily while hurricane/cyclone pilots have to have uber-leet veteran skills to even compete with a drake in (1v1) pvp.
I am not just talking skillpoints here but also pvp skills.

For example:
To fly a cyclone PROPERLY in small/solo pvp you have to have maximised nearly all ship-relevant skills (gunnery, drones, energy management, navigation, drug use, combat implants) and use it as a blue-pill cap&shield boosted monster to get any nice efficiency out of it.
To fly a hurricane properly in same small/solo pvp conditions you have to have good kiting skills on top of situation assessment skills (when and how to (not) engage/disengage).
But to fly a drake properly you just need to get within point range and spam your HAMs or try to kite your target and spam HMs.

Minmatar ships tend to perform best in small to medium sized gangs where drakes perform best in smaller gangs and large gangs.
This is due to the fact that drakes have high EHP/tank and consistent DPS compared to a hurricane/cyclone's high speed/sig tank which is linked to their DPS progression.

What I am trying to point out is that both have optimal engagement situations where their attributes shine compared to the other but the drake has the advantage of being easier to fly and thus being more newb-friendly as less (veteran) judgement is required in all of the situations where a drake shines over a hurricane/cyclone while a lot of (veteran) judgement and skill is required to fly a hurricane/cyclone properly in the engagement situations where those ships excel.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.08.20 16:46:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Alua Oresson
Edited by: Alua Oresson on 20/08/2010 10:59:39
Originally by: Liang Nuren
man fu k e-un iand their bloby **** man. get like 80 more bp,e tahn us in local n its like "WAH WHA BITSCHES WERE NTO PIRATES!!!!"

aya **** oy .u its liek wtf man u got 8 0 rme poele and woooo you wont nengae my 01 batelships!!

fu k htm e


Liang, could you please translate that into english?


Something about blobs and anti pirates talking in local. And apparently I go off ranting about html. No idea, sorry.

-Liang

Oricalchum
Posted - 2010.08.20 17:06:00 - [14]
 

Liang Drunk best Drunk

Daergaar
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.20 18:01:00 - [15]
 

I understand what you're saying, but the fact that the Drake is easy to fly is not really about the Drake itself; rather, it's about the fact that missiles have the advantage of not having to worry about the same things that guns do. This applies to all missile boats.

Shield tanking missile ships happen to have bloated sig radii, so playing tracking games with your enemy isn't a viable strategy anyway. Furthermore, if you're a pvp pilot of any kind, you'll want to get both your shield and armor skills up, regardless of which tank you use. More armor HP is good even for a shield tanker and vise versa.

I'm a two year Drake pilot, and yes it IS easy to fly, but I fly it simply because I prefer tanking to kiting and I prefer missiles to guns, even if they are a suboptimal pvp weapon choice. The Nighthawk which I'm about to fly in 3 days flies just like the Drake does.

Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
The hurricane and cyclone are nice ships. They excel more in pvp than pve.

For pve stick to your drake, DON'T switch to hurricane/cyclone regardless of your skills with those ships.
For pvp it is all a bit tricky.

The main reason everyone loves/hates the drake is because pve 'noobs' with relatively bad skills (aside from shield and missiles) can still rock a drake in pvp easily while hurricane/cyclone pilots have to have uber-leet veteran skills to even compete with a drake in (1v1) pvp.
I am not just talking skillpoints here but also pvp skills.

For example:
To fly a cyclone PROPERLY in small/solo pvp you have to have maximised nearly all ship-relevant skills (gunnery, drones, energy management, navigation, drug use, combat implants) and use it as a blue-pill cap&shield boosted monster to get any nice efficiency out of it.
To fly a hurricane properly in same small/solo pvp conditions you have to have good kiting skills on top of situation assessment skills (when and how to (not) engage/disengage).
But to fly a drake properly you just need to get within point range and spam your HAMs or try to kite your target and spam HMs.

Minmatar ships tend to perform best in small to medium sized gangs where drakes perform best in smaller gangs and large gangs.
This is due to the fact that drakes have high EHP/tank and consistent DPS compared to a hurricane/cyclone's high speed/sig tank which is linked to their DPS progression.

What I am trying to point out is that both have optimal engagement situations where their attributes shine compared to the other but the drake has the advantage of being easier to fly and thus being more newb-friendly as less (veteran) judgement is required in all of the situations where a drake shines over a hurricane/cyclone while a lot of (veteran) judgement and skill is required to fly a hurricane/cyclone properly in the engagement situations where those ships excel.

AstarothPrime
Posted - 2010.08.22 14:32:00 - [16]
 

I am new to this game and I have been loking for some good pvp ship myself.

All 5y+ old guys told me the same thing:

The best solo pvp ship is - DRAKE. Fit it with HAM II and have BC and shield fitting skill at V (for max resistance) and you have a killer boat for peanuts cost. OFC support skills for CPU and grid are a must because drake lacks those plenty...

I.

SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Aperture Science inc.
Posted - 2010.08.22 14:36:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: AstarothPrime
I am new to this game and I have been loking for some good pvp ship myself.

All 5y+ old guys told me the same thing:

The best solo pvp ship is - DRAKE. Fit it with HAM II and have BC and shield fitting skill at V (for max resistance) and you have a killer boat for peanuts cost. OFC support skills for CPU and grid are a must because drake lacks those plenty...

I.



That is simply not true I'm afraid.

You see it all depends on your definition of 'best' in combination with 'solo pvp'.
If your definition means "never die and sometimes manage to kill something" then the dramiel is your preferred ship of choice.
If your definition means "I don't care if I die as long as the other dude dies as well" then it would be a different ship...

You see where I'm going with this?

Android5
Posted - 2010.08.22 14:45:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: AstarothPrime
I am new to this game and I have been loking for some good pvp ship myself.

All 5y+ old guys told me the same thing:

The best solo pvp ship is - DRAKE. Fit it with HAM II and have BC and shield fitting skill at V (for max resistance) and you have a killer boat for peanuts cost. OFC support skills for CPU and grid are a must because drake lacks those plenty...

I.



As the guy above me noted, that just isn't the case. HAM drake has minimal range and isn't very good against frigs/ceptors etc. HM drake does a bit better in this regard but not by much, it also has less dps.
Projectiles are your best bet imo, they have quite high damage, can change damage type, high tracking and a very nice engagement envelope. You can take on inties fairly effectively even with the largest mid sized guns.
If you plan to solo pvp projectiles are the way to go, if your planning on doing mostly gang work then stick with missiles.


 

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