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Marn Prestoc
Minmatar
Maelstrom Crew
Paradigm Alliance
Posted - 2010.09.06 00:16:00 - [751]
 

Whilst just modifying blasters is the simple thing to do, all that will happen is the good ships will be made better and the pointless ships will remain pointless.

The Deimos doesn't fill the oldest HAC role (nano/skirmishing) or the current FOTM RR Armour HAC.

One of the main reasons for flying a HAC instead of a BC is its speed and agility which typically means skirmish type of fighting with a shield tank. Deimos doesn't really do that, and boost blasters won't make it do that.

RR Armor Hacs are slow and rely on weapons with range, Deimos can't do that and boost blasters won't make it do that.


Astarte is in same boat. Info war links are pants for starters then the Astarte doesn't even have a misc high.


If you really want to go back in history for things to blame look at the HP boosts to increase fight times. "Gank and Run" was basically nerfed which is what Blaster ships were made to do, all thats left is skirmishing or fight to the death and hope they don't have support.

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.06 01:41:00 - [752]
 

Liang I have seen you talk often about this Mythical 1400 DPS Raven..In Reality it will be either No tank because to put Rage Torps Dmg on target you need web and Painter or you will be using Implants or some crazy things that arent practical in PVP.

Fact is the 1400 DPS Hyp Would be a very common fit that could put alot of the DMG on target from Dist to Scram Range. It would be the same fit alot of peeps use now and it is already Crazy powerful when used right but isnt as popular because of Blobs, my Torp Raven Has 1k DPS with Faction Missiles so I cant see how your ALL LVL 5 Toon in EFT gets to 1400.

The Domi will HAVE 978 DPS without Drones so yes it will be very very powerful vs small ships remember it does 120 DPS with Warriors and they have way more HP for frigs to pop. 120 DPS Kills Tacklers with lightning speed and if you get 1 oncoming volley with low trans pop. Med Drones make it really scary 978 DPS+ 238 DPS against Cruisers is also death, Considering they will hit very often. And 978+Ogres=1413 DPS ...Its scary in any form, you cant even compare it to the Raven.

Liang you are crazy to think that the Tengu would Wipe its ass with a 900 DPS Droned out Monster like that...Once the Tengu is in Rnage the Med ECM drones get 40% Locks on it and thats it. Seemslike in this case you arent considering real situations as much as EFT.

Raven will do 30% of that DPS to a cruiser, 60% to Cane If that.

Tengu in same gank format has 90k EHP vs 120k EHP and to get anywhere near the DPS needs Hams, you only really can fit 5 using a Buffer GU so please tell me you wont use active Gu...Most the time you are right on about missions CNR vs Tengu etc...hell even some of the other arguments above...Not these.


Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 03:06:00 - [753]
 

Originally by: Kail Storm
Liang I have seen you talk often about this Mythical 1400 DPS Raven..In Reality it will be either No tank because to put Rage Torps Dmg on target you need web and Painter or you will be using Implants or some crazy things that arent practical in PVP.


I find it amusing that:
- your Raven has only 1000 DPS. Neutral
- you think its impractical to use implants in PVP, yet in another thread are talking about Lokis and Tengus as if that's reasonable. Rolling Eyes
- you think a shield gank Hype with a scrambler as its only tackle will be doing a larger percentage of its DPS than a torp Raven.
- you think its a big deal for a Hype to outdamage a Raven inside scram range. News flash: the fact that a Raven is an outright better damage dealer in scram range is a sign that things are horribly broken for blasters.

Quote:
Med ECM drones get 40% Locks


I guess you could be a brain dead ****** that doesn't blow the ECM drones up. They're one volley each you know.

Quote:
Raven will do 30% of that DPS to a cruiser, 60% to Cane If that.


Neglecting that I regularly instapop cruisers with my Raven, the 30% you expect the Raven to do is significantly more than the 5% you can expect a shield gank Hype to do and similarly the Raven will do more to a Hurricane. You're dramatically overestimating damage projection blasters get without Scram + 2-3x web + painters.

Quote:
Most the time you are right on about missions CNR vs Tengu etc.


Kail, you've tangled with me before. You know how this will turn out.

-Liang

Irae Ragwan
Posted - 2010.09.06 03:22:00 - [754]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

News flash: the fact that a Raven is an outright better damage dealer in scram range is a sign that things are horribly broken for blasters.



I concur with the rest of your post, but here i'm a little confused. Torp range isn't anything to write home about itself. I don't see blasters as better, obviously, but I don't think torps ought to necessarily be much worse up close. I'd like to hear a little more explanation on that point.

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2010.09.06 03:35:00 - [755]
 

Originally by: Kail Storm
Liang I have seen you talk often about this Mythical 1400 DPS Raven..In Reality it will be either No tank because to put Rage Torps Dmg on target you need web and Painter or you will be using Implants or some crazy things that arent practical in PVP.

This in and of itself doesn't bother me, but...
Originally by: Kail Storm

Fact is the 1400 DPS Hyp Would be a very common fit that could put alot of the DMG on target from Dist to Scram Range. It would be the same fit alot of peeps use now and it is already Crazy powerful when used right but isnt as popular because of Blobs, my Torp Raven Has 1k DPS with Faction Missiles so I cant see how your ALL LVL 5 Toon in EFT gets to 1400.


Similarly fit raven and hyp, hyp will do about 1300 DPS and raven will do about 1200. Hyp will have less EHP, and won't be able to tackle properly (fewer mids than a raven while needing roughly the same amount of tackle, and also needing a cap booster because even a few medium neuts will **** its cap sideways) It also gets no utility highslots vs the ravens' 2, and only has 1/6th the range.

Originally by: Kail Storm

The Domi will HAVE 978 DPS without Drones so yes it will be very very powerful vs small ships remember it does 120 DPS with Warriors and they have way more HP for frigs to pop. 120 DPS Kills Tacklers with lightning speed and if you get 1 oncoming volley with low trans pop. Med Drones make it really scary 978 DPS+ 238 DPS against Cruisers is also death, Considering they will hit very often. And 978+Ogres=1413 DPS ...Its scary in any form, you cant even compare it to the Raven.


Domi is VERY hard to fit, requiring perfect skills in several branches to get anything like the numbers you're suggesting, not to mention the domi has the same problem as the hyp with regards to slot layout, in order to fit the tackle it needs (even more important as it has no tracking bonus and must give up a few lows to fitting mods) it ends up with a crap buffer, which in and of itself is enough to balance out vs the whopping 200 DPS advantage it gets, not to mention that said DPS is applicable only at very close ranges, and once again you forfeit all utility highs to get this, and they use cap.

(BTW don't get me wrong; domi is an awesome ship, but thats because it's so damn versatile due to its drones, but looking at one stat of the ship in eft and going ZOMG LOOK AT THE DAMAAAAAAAGE! just isn't something you should be doing when comparing 2 ships.
Originally by: Kail Storm

Liang you are crazy to think that the Tengu would Wipe its ass with a 900 DPS Droned out Monster like that...Once the Tengu is in Rnage the Med ECM drones get 40% Locks on it and thats it. Seemslike in this case you arent considering real situations as much as EFT.
The irony of that statement coming from someone who just spent several paragraphs talking about the 1337 damage of blasters is tremendous. Also tengu would never get within blaster range, and will outrun heavy drones no problem (and shoot down smaller ones, or tank them if he so chooses). The damage a domi could actually apply to a tengu is pretty much nil, assuming the tengu even decides to engage the domi at all (a choice not offered to blaster pilots once a fight starts)

Originally by: Kail Storm

Raven will do 30% of that DPS to a cruiser, 60% to Cane If that.
I must have missed the update that made it anything other than ******ed to get within scram range of a domi, or at least the one where they made the domi fast enough to catch cruisers that didn't choose to engage it. If the target ISN'T webbed and scrammed, domi's only going to do any sort of reasonable damage to it with medium/light drones, which is but a small percent of its max theoretical eft DPS as well Shocked Raven also at least has a chance to hold down something like a cane because of its utility highslots (we are still talking about blaster domi yeh? cuz neut domi has less DPS than a cane >_> )

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.09.06 05:28:00 - [756]
 

Originally by: souhyeahright
...Several of the best frigates across all classes in the game use hybrids...

Let me hazard a guess as to the cause of your delusions:
Taranis? Has a huge tracking bonus, speed/transversal control achieved - ie. What I suggested be done.
Daredevil? Has godwebs, speed/transversal control achieved - better than tracking bonus, but same end result close in.
Catalyst/Cormorant? Destroyer tracking is immense, speed/transversal control achieved - ie. What I suggested be done.
Enyo? Huge tracking bonus, if it can keep in range it wins 80% of fights .. but with scramblers and no web it needs lol-AB to ensure that.
Ishkur? Lives and dies by its drones, gun damage is only deciding factor when it uses .. you guessed it, rails.
Have fun dying to the first barrage loaded Rifter you meet, the first Slicer, the first anything with 5km+ range really in anything without huge tracking.

Summary: All the small ships that are viable with blasters (ie. in regular service) has huge tracking bonuses.
Imagine a world where that tracking was inherent in the weapons themselves and the bonuses were changed to something even more useful like scrambler range, gun range, drones, tank ....

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.06 05:34:00 - [757]
 

Edited by: Kail Storm on 06/09/2010 05:49:31

Originally by: Liang Nuren


Quote:
Most the time you are right on about missions CNR vs Tengu etc.


Kail, you've tangled with me before. You know how this will turn out.

-Liang


Are you serious? This sounds like a god complex forming lol I was saying you were right about it, and most if not all PVE things. Tangled with you before lol

Anyways as I have said normally right but please show me the 1400 DPS Raven and the 1800 DPS Faction ship that Cald has...Please...Pretty Please? Inside Scram Range you are smoking Crack if you think Blasters are way worse than a Raven.

8KM BS Blasters Can kill pretty much anything, If you ask anyone in a Raven what he will do against a Serious Mega pilot he will say keep him at range you are a carebear if you try to fight him inside scram range, you try to change levels on him once making him change ammo`s but if a Mega lands on top of you, you arent at the advantage.

And the Whole Time you are volleying the ECM Drones How? FOF`s? And while you do this I suck them in and out you do what? You escape.

All reasonable people will agree a 900 DPS 128k EHP ALL T2 fitted Cruiser with a 15km Scram is Op`d. Tell me its not.

@Camb once more you are comparing all things to soling PVP which isnt the Norm and in fact in most BS`s is stupid and begging to get ganked.

Why would anyone fly a Shield Hyp alone? Or Shield Domi? or Raven? Hell the Mach the Best BS in Game now would be Crazy to fly alone most times. So stop comparing 1v1 In a Gang Hyp has tackle and is massively powerful when used right, All ships at the BS level need support esp now days. The Raven cant solo on its own, not effectively so dont even compare it like that, imagine them in small to med gangs.

BTW all the tackle you need in a Hype to kill a Raven is a Scram. A Shield Hyp is faster than Raven by 20 M/S so once hes Scrammed and the Hyp is its over, also remember that the raven even in your words is stupid to use Rage Ammo, so please show me your fit of 1200 DPS without Rage.

And Lastly the Domi I was talking bout is shield so it is way easier to fit, it might not be worth it to Shield it now but with 20% DMg increase it is stupid not to why not Armor tank for 50k EHP more when you dont fit Guns and have the Grid?

But with 978 DPS using 3 DMG mods you are stupid not to.

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.06 05:52:00 - [758]
 

Edited by: Kail Storm on 06/09/2010 05:55:59
Originally by: Kail Storm

Liang you are crazy to think that the Tengu would Wipe its ass with a 900 DPS Droned out Monster like that...Once the Tengu is in Rnage the Med ECM drones get 40% Locks on it and thats it. Seemslike in this case you arent considering real situations as much as EFT.


Originally by: Cambarus

The irony of that statement coming from someone who just spent several paragraphs talking about the 1337 damage of blasters is tremendous. Also tengu would never get within blaster range, and will outrun heavy drones no problem (and shoot down smaller ones, or tank them if he so chooses). The damage a domi could actually apply to a tengu is pretty much nil, assuming the tengu even decides to engage the domi at all (a choice not offered to blaster pilots once a fight starts)



I was talking the Proteus Camb re read it, not the Domi at all.

Also your telling me that in gang fights you always get away in smaller ships..Lol there are plenty of times you hop through a gate and bam a gang with tackle fights you and you have no choice, These are real situations not 1v1`s this is where the New Domi would be scary good.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 06:01:00 - [759]
 

Originally by: Kail Storm

Are you serious? This sounds like a god complex forming lol I was saying you were right about it, and most if not all PVE things. Tangled with you before lol



Kail, it isn't a god complex forming. What it is is being tired of proving you wrong repeatedly. And what's worse is that this time you're obviously so far out of your zone of understanding that its just going to be painful. Confused Furthermore, I'd really prefer this thread to die.

Quote:

Anyways as I have said normally right but please show me the 1400 DPS Raven and the 1800 DPS Faction ship that Cald has...Please...Pretty Please?



Raven, 6x Siege II/4x T2 BCU: Rage = 1447, Faction = 1320
CNR, 7x Siege II/4x CN BCU: Rage = 1747, Faction = 1589

For reference, a similar and reasonably fit Vindicator (3x SS MFS) only deals 1691 DPS with faction ammo and 1710 with Void.

Quote:
And the Whole Time you are volleying the ECM Drones How? FOF`s? And while you do this I suck them in and out you do what? You escape.


You "target" and "F1" them. Difficult concept, I know. I even have a whole overview set up to deal with ECM drones.

Quote:
All reasonable people will agree a 900 DPS 128k EHP ALL T2 fitted Cruiser with a 15km Scram is Op`d. Tell me its not.


It would be, except that the Tengu is still better.

-Liang

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 06:22:00 - [760]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 06/09/2010 06:38:12
Originally by: Kail Storm

@Camb once more you are comparing all things to soling PVP which isnt the Norm and in fact in most BS`s is stupid and begging to get ganked.



Be careful where you go with this. You have to remember that as gang sizes go up, range becomes far more important and the theoretical "lack of a painter" becomes much less reasonable. It's entirely reasonable to fit WTF huge tanks on a torp raven if this is the line you want to take.

Quote:
The Raven cant solo on its own, not effectively so dont even compare it like that, imagine them in small to med gangs.


Hold on, I'm deleting all the killmails I got when solo PVPing in my Raven.

Quote:
BTW all the tackle you need in a Hype to kill a Raven is a Scram. A Shield Hyp is faster than Raven by 20 M/S so once hes Scrammed and the Hyp is its over, also remember that the raven even in your words is stupid to use Rage Ammo, so please show me your fit of 1200 DPS without Rage.


Your arguments are really falling apart here. Consider:
- You're mentally turning this into a 1v1, despite saying its a NvN, N <= 10
- The Hype is almost 100% disabled from dealing damage when warp scrambled, and 20 m/s is awfully slow to be crossing 10km.
- Under your first argument that neither ship will have difficulty with tackle, the Raven is free to only spend 2 slots on damage (Painter + Scram) and use rage against anything with a sig radius >= 400.
- The Raven has full damage type selection, deals more damage (1447 vs 1435), and starts dealing it sooner (25km vs 5km).
- The Raven has better EHP than the Hype (102K vs 92K) [Ed: This is relative to each other's damage types]
- The Hype will have to repeatedly MWD between targets to deal effective damage. Ravens will just spam torps and pwn.

-Liang

Ed: I should point out that I don't tend to use rage torps, but that they are usable especially in gang situations. Ravens are fantastic damage dealers.

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2010.09.06 07:29:00 - [761]
 

Originally by: Kail Storm
... you try to change levels on him once making him change ammo`s but if a Mega lands on top of you, you arent at the advantage.


Maybe not but you're not at a disadvantage either. By the time he actually comes out of warp and you lock him, you've already had enough time to switch into explosive torps to shoot into his resist hole, you have twice as many utility highs as he does, similar HP, and BETTER effective damage (DPS would be more or less the same, but you'd be hitting his resist hole unless you're too dense to have brought explosive torps)

Originally by: Kail Storm

And the Whole Time you are volleying the ECM Drones How? FOF`s? And while you do this I suck them in and out you do what? You escape.

1)You have the ability to lock drones
2)There's a couple pvp vids out there called the rocket witchcraft (can't remember what the other one's called but its similarly named) I'd suggest you go watch it.
Originally by: Kail Storm

All reasonable people will agree a 900 DPS 128k EHP ALL T2 fitted Cruiser with a 15km Scram is Op`d. Tell me its not.

All reasonable people would also agree that half a bil for a cruiser is kinda ridiculous. And it's pretty common knowledge that the gallente t3 is pretty beastly, but is still only second best (care to take a guess as to which is #1? I'll give you a hint, it's not one that has to get into scram range every time it wants to fight)

Originally by: Kail Storm

@Camb once more you are comparing all things to soling PVP which isnt the Norm and in fact in most BS`s is stupid and begging to get ganked.
Well when you were whining about how the raven needs to fit a target painter/web/whatever else it was because we were talking about solo/very small gang pvp. If you have a decent sized gang (IE more than 5) there should already be someone painting targets and webbing them. In smallish-medium gangs the raven is at its peak, is much better than the mega, and as fleet size grows so does the disparity between the 2.
Originally by: Kail Storm

Why would anyone fly a Shield Hyp alone? Or Shield Domi? or Raven? Hell the Mach the Best BS in Game now would be Crazy to fly alone most times. So stop comparing 1v1 In a Gang Hyp has tackle and is massively powerful when used right, All ships at the BS level need support esp now days. The Raven cant solo on its own, not effectively so dont even compare it like that, imagine them in small to med gangs.

The hyp has all the same problems the raven does, with the addition of cap issues and range problems. As I said before, if we're assuming someone else is tackling, wtf are you doing whining about needing to fit a painter? And the hyp has less tackle as a similarly fit raven, lrn2countmdslts. Or less damage, if it's armor tanked.
Originally by: Kail Storm
also remember that the raven even in your words is stupid to use Rage Ammo, so please show me your fit of 1200 DPS without Rage.

4 damage mods + t2 siege launchers + faction ammo + highest damage drone loadout = 1215 DPS, without overloading ofc. This is damage that can be easily applied to another BS, with variable damage types no cap usage and 2 utility highslots.
Originally by: Kail Storm

And Lastly the Domi I was talking bout is shield so it is way easier to fit, it might not be worth it to Shield it now but with 20% DMg increase it is stupid not to why not Armor tank for 50k EHP more when you dont fit Guns and have the Grid?


I was also referring to a shield domi, if you want neutrons it still requires fitting mods.
Originally by: Kail Storm

Also your telling me that in gang fights you always get away in smaller ships..Lol there are plenty of times you hop through a gate and bam a gang with tackle fights you and you have no choice, These are real situations not 1v1`s this is where the New Domi would be scary good.

It's not that you always get away in smaller ships so much as it is that you NEVER get away in bigger ones.

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.06 07:41:00 - [762]
 

First off when did I ever "Tangle with you?" Except on a CNR VS Tengu argument where I admitted CNR was overall faster and you said training Tengu was a tarining Dead End? When Besides that?

Next a Raven with all LVL 5 4 T2 BCS, 5 Med HH Drones and Faction Ammo is 1080 DPS. How in the Hell do you get the rest?

Next is please direct me to all your Solo Raven Kills before deleting them...Please.

Also this huge Buffer on the raven without a Pianter is where? With 4 BCS`s you cant even fit 2 LSE`s and 2 Invulns. if you could with 3 Extender rigs it would still be a whopping 110k EHP and worse with this fit there is no way to fit a Heavy Nuet.
Here is the Raven please people plug it in and see if you can get this 1400 DPS.

[Raven, Test T Raven]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Warp Scrambler II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
100MN MicroWarpdrive I

Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Ogre II x3

Wow look at that its still Over CPU with Highs empty so this negates Nice Utility for Nuets. 4 BCS isnt reasonable for most fits ALSO IT STILL HAS A MAX DMG with RAGE OF 1217 DMG so this 1400 is not true plus with 100 its a fail fit. No Nuets and 109k EHP. That is not very good for its role in soling lol. Without a Painter/Web you are asurd no hard hits on smaller ships, where as blasters can get them on Low Trans hits the Raven has no chance without sig bloom.

Anyways point is you said 1400 DPS was Ez for raven...NOT True, You said 1800 DPS CNR...Not true, so dont dance around and talk about phantom past victorys in battles we never fought, up till this point I respected your opinion and was always respectful, but the Soap Box hurt your perspective.

Im all for Hybrid Buff but one that makes sense..Rails need DMG, Armored Blaster Boats Need some speed Insta Reloads and Way way better ammo`s.




Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.06 07:59:00 - [763]
 

Edited by: Kail Storm on 06/09/2010 08:04:32
Camb so when I get jumped I switch to Explosive torps and lose 10 secs in a 60 Sec fight, effectively losing 1/6th my DPS.

Go watch a PVP Vid? Lol

I Agree the Tengu is my Fav now but My point is If we had your DPS increase which you admitted you wanted. The 20% More DPS would OP the Prot. While the Tengu might still be ok against it alot of other ships wouldnt have a chance in hell.

The Shield Domi has Lows open, so put 1 PDS in and it adds cap Tank and Fits Nuetrons, Caldari do it on every boat almost. Also My numbers were already including a PDS.

The Raven gets progressively better in Fleets than the Mega...LOL

Also in small gangs no one brings Painters, so many other things/Roles to fill. ECM, Nuets, TD`s, Tank, Dual Prop TACKLE

Your best statement is that Ravens are good in Med Gangs. True if they are geared towards Ravens, but most arent they are mismatched Pest`s Mixed with Drakes with Canes etc and most them if not all dont need Painters. Also they Know Ravens have weak tanks and Biggish DPS and are also slow so they Primary them.

Once more 4 DMG Mods isnt practical at all, you gimp Tank and have 0 CPU left so no Nuets and your Utility means **** or bettr yet no DMG Control..YAH

ALSO Your 1215 DPS isnt right you only get that with Rage Ammo not Faction, Unless you dont have Ammo Reload Checked in EFT which is Fail.

So If we put 4 DMG Mods on the Hyp which you can without gimping the fit, we get 1353 DPS or 1100 Gun DPS. And with your 20% Increase we get 1573DPS/1320 Gun...YAHHHHH Sweet. This would PWN all with Logi Support in a 20 Man gang where you had 5 of them for Close range killing that warps in late on tacklers...Way to OP`d

1573 DPS all T2 fitted lol







Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 08:12:00 - [764]
 

Quote:
First off when did I ever "Tangle with you?" Except on a CNR VS Tengu argument where I admitted CNR was overall faster and you said training Tengu was a tarining Dead End? When Besides that?


There were many Tengu arguments before you finally admitted you were wrong. And you still persist in telling people to train for the Tengu over a CNR. Neutral

Quote:
Next a Raven with all LVL 5 4 T2 BCS, 5 Med HH Drones and Faction Ammo is 1080 DPS. How in the Hell do you get the rest?


Comments:
- Turn off reload time when talking about PVP. Turn it on when talking about PVE.
- 2/2/1 will yield more DPS than either 5/5 and 3 Heavies, while maintaining the same versatility as a 4 Heavy Hype (which was what we were discussing). I would have chosen 5/5 to compare to a Typhoon or Domi since the they don't sacrifice drone utility to field 5 heavies.
- 5% hardwirings were used in the Raven, CNR, and Vindicator. Yes, I PVP with 5% hardwirings and pirate implants.

Quote:
Next is please direct me to all your Solo Raven Kills before deleting them...Please.


Send me 50 billion ISK and I'll give you my alt's name.

Quote:
[Raven, Test T Raven]


Uh, that's your idea for how to solo in a Raven? No wonder you think it sucks. Play around with it a bit more - I'm able to get a viable fit without going over on CPU. Its a bit light on tank, but when you're solo in a battleship you don't need tank - you need to get the kill and GTFO.

Quote:
Anyways point is you said 1400 DPS was Ez for raven...NOT True, You said 1800 DPS CNR...Not true


What I said is that my T2 fit Raven with my skills does 1416 DPS. It does. Totally true.

Quote:
so dont dance around and talk about phantom past victorys in battles we never fought


Man wut, we've tangled over the Raven, CNR, Golem, HAM Tengu, HML Tengu, and quite a number of other topics.

Quote:
up till this point I respected your opinion and was always respectful, but the Soap Box hurt your perspective.


You can choose not to respect my opinion all you want man, but the simple fact is that you frequently talk about things that you don't understand. Blasters need a lot of help to be competitive even with the "crap" Raven - and that's a simple fact.

Quote:

Im all for Hybrid Buff but one that makes sense..Rails need DMG, Armored Blaster Boats Need some speed Insta Reloads and Way way better ammo`s.



Rails needing damage, ok I agree. Insta reloads? Are you serious? And what kind of "way way better ammos" are you talking about?

-Liang

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 08:18:00 - [765]
 

Originally by: Kail Storm

I Agree the Tengu is my Fav now but My point is If we had your DPS increase which you admitted you wanted. The 20% More DPS would OP the Prot. While the Tengu might still be ok against it alot of other ships wouldnt have a chance in hell.



Does this mean that you support a Tengu nerf?

Quote:

The Shield Domi has Lows open, so put 1 PDS in and it adds cap Tank and Fits Nuetrons, Caldari do it on every boat almost. Also My numbers were already including a PDS.



Post the neutron domi fit you're talking about, because from what I see its shy about 26% grid. Hell of a PDU you got.

Quote:
The Raven gets progressively better in Fleets than the Mega...LOL


You dispute this? Really????

Quote:
Also in small gangs no one brings Painters, so many other things/Roles to fill. ECM, Nuets, TD`s, Tank, Dual Prop TACKLE


Ok, as I said - worst case scenario the Raven brings his own painter + scram and still comes out with a reasonable shield buffer. But I'm kinda O.o to your claim that nobody brings a painter...

Quote:
Your best statement is that Ravens are good in Med Gangs.


Ravens are simply the best damage dealers in the game right now - and that's no joke. Sorry that you can't seem to comprehend that. Confused

Quote:
Once more 4 DMG Mods isnt practical at all, you gimp Tank and have 0 CPU left so no Nuets and your Utility means **** or bettr yet no DMG Control..YAH


Keep playing with it - it uses some best named but the fits certainly exist.

Quote:
Unless you dont have Ammo Reload Checked in EFT which is Fail.


Get your head out of the PVE game for a little while and come join us in PVP land.

Quote:
So If we put 4 DMG Mods on the Hyp which you can without gimping the fit


If you actually had a clue about what you were talking about, you'd know that a second TE is far far more important than a fourth MFS.

-Liang

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.06 08:41:00 - [766]
 

Edited by: Kail Storm on 06/09/2010 08:46:49
Show me your Magic Solo Raven Fit, The fit I posted was to Prove You have to make sacrifices with 4 DMg Mods...So show me yours Liang Please..Also we have never talked about Golems or anything other than CNR Vs Tengu and I tell Peeps to Train Tengu first because It Gives them excellent PVP in Drake along the way where as Raven with Cruises is Kind of a Dead end in PVP.

I never spoke about what I didnt know, I knew Tengu was Easier to hop into while skilling towards PVP never ever ever did I say CNR was slower than Tengu but once more you were probably defensive from the others.

You have lost the weight and got mean in your old age..lol

The Fact is you in PVE are considered somewhat of a Guru but with PVP stuff a little Sensitive.

You bragged about all your solo kills so I asked to see them, I understand not wanting to expose Alts though, Kail is a Alt Im not Attached to as much.

Anyways I never said Raven was Crap my whole point is a straight Damage Buff of 20% Wont work for what needs fixing and will OP the ****out of Certain ships badly. So you took what I was saying out of context maybe because you were warmed up arguing with Lugal and didnt Read what I was saying?

Also your PVE land comment is LOL To All of us who swap ammo`s during fights we need to see more realistic DPS with Reloads, Go through Gate on Roam and have to swapp to EM on a shield Boat, or Explosive on Armor or Thermal Etc thats reloading LOL I guess you can read minds or hacked the server to see what you will fight next...

Also Uncheck it for Hac Gangs where you know whats coming through but other 85% of situations ESP in a Gal Boat you have to Take Reloads into account, if Not only to bring you down to reality, alot of times in PVP its alot more DPS cut than the EFT Reloads is, so its better to measure smaller safer DPS number than EFt warrior one.

Like I said Insta Reloads is a DPS Boost and Why Should Amarr the Class with the most Range who needs it the least have it and the Race who needs it the most to make seamless ammo changes suffer a 10 sec time?

Gal would Benefit hugely if piloted right with Insta Reloads, also I wanted a more closely knit Range/DPS overlapp in Faction ammos so the blasters wouldnt be stuck with Null-AM.

12% Range increase would bring Null to AM in line with Scorch to MF. Also maybe a 5% Dmg Increase in certain ships. And Removal of Useless Active Tanking Bonuses On ships like the Hyp etc but not a blanket 20% increase is all I was saying.


fkingfurious
Posted - 2010.09.06 08:42:00 - [767]
 

Ravens arent THAT good tbh although it says alot about Gallente BS in general that they're the only race that I can't easily think of one that would be capable of beating the Raven both solo and on gang performance.

Also, seriously Liang, cut the crap with the implants. You know as well as I do that it's pointless to use them in comparisons. Hell, I live and fight in 0.0 and I got podded 3 times last week, courtesy of bubbles. If you're gonna use em to compare then it's gotta cut both ways. Hows your Raven gonna do against an HG Slave 5% Hardwired Mega? Less well I suspect.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 08:45:00 - [768]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 06/09/2010 08:47:12
Originally by: fkingfurious
Ravens arent THAT good tbh although it says alot about Gallente BS in general that they're the only race that I can't easily think of one that would be capable of beating the Raven both solo and on gang performance.

Also, seriously Liang, cut the crap with the implants. You know as well as I do that it's pointless to use them in comparisons. Hell, I live and fight in 0.0 and I got podded 3 times last week, courtesy of bubbles. If you're gonna use em to compare then it's gotta cut both ways. Hows your Raven gonna do against an HG Slave 5% Hardwired Mega? Less well I suspect.


I am using implants on both sides. ;-) It's worth noting that pirate implants aren't coming into play right now because he's restricted the conversation to shield gank hypes.

-Liang

Ed: Also, I feel completely justified in using implants for the comparisons for two reasons:
- They show the true maximum (which is important, really)
- I PVP with them in high sec, low sec, and 0.0

souhyeahright
Posted - 2010.09.06 08:53:00 - [769]
 

Lookit ma, I'm a dumbf*** EFTwarya!

[Raven, very f'n dumb]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Reactor Control Unit II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1


ZMT2000 (5% torp damage), ZMM 100 (3% all missile damage): 1422 EFT deeps before heat. This thread is very dumb and I feel dumber for having read the last couple of pages. The above fit is also dumb, and if that's the kind of thing Liang is talking about, he's pretty dumb too.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 08:55:00 - [770]
 

Originally by: Kail Storm
Show me your Magic Solo Raven Fit


This is the first Raven I was talking about:
[Raven, PVP Raven]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Target Painter II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Stasis Webifier II

Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1

This is the second:
[Raven, PVP Raven (Gang)]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1


Quote:
The Fact is you in PVE are considered somewhat of a Guru but with PVP stuff a little Sensitive.


I always found it terribly ironic to be found a "guru" in PVE, considering that the only reason I PVE is so that I can blow ISK on PVP. I know waaay more about PVP than PVE.

Quote:
Also your PVE land comment is LOL To All of us who swap ammo`s during fights


Get better scouts or learn to use D-Scan. I don't tend to switch ammo or reload during a fight.

Quote:
Ideas About Blasters


I don't really see that your ideas accomplish much beyond turning hybrids into crappy lasers. I'd rather have damage, so that I get a reward for the effort of finding an appropriately sized fight and getting in range.

-Liang

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 08:59:00 - [771]
 

Originally by: souhyeahright
ZMT2000 (5% torp damage), ZMM 100 (3% all missile damage): 1422 EFT deeps before heat. This thread is very dumb and I feel dumber for having read the last couple of pages. The above fit is also dumb, and if that's the kind of thing Liang is talking about, he's pretty dumb too.


Believe it or not, it actually works great. There's nothing more fun than getting some shield gank battlecruisers to engage you. In the end, you're a bit light on EHP, but that's the nature of gank boats... and frankly if you need the EHP you're probably going to die to their blob anyway. Which definitely happens... whether I'm in an uber tank or not. Neutral

-Liang

Miya StarDrifter
Posted - 2010.09.06 09:01:00 - [772]
 

Lol Yah Liang Is Known for his EFT Prowess. He is Good in PVE.

He is Definitely to his Core a CareBear and should not be taken seriously at all when it comes to PVP.

He is Terribad at PVP. He`s known for not knowing **** about PVP and somehow being ok or even great at PVE.

But Kail Your Posts have made My Eyes Bleed Since you never break walls of Text, what you say is ok but walls of text is for losers Wink

Seriously though if anyone listens to Liang in PVP they should Die in a Soloing 4 Faction Dmg Mod`d all Pirate Implanted Ship Lol

He has never lived in 00 Sec even the best are podded sometimes so losing 250 mil per pod at minumum is crazy or he is an ISK buyer.

In Fact I wish we did count he ISk Buys I bet he is epic in that area Wink

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 09:05:00 - [773]
 

Originally by: Miya StarDrifter
He has never lived in 00 Sec even the best are podded sometimes so losing 250 mil per pod at minumum is crazy or he is an ISK buyer.


http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=3414852
That pod right there? ****ing expensive.

-Liang

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.06 09:07:00 - [774]
 

LOL the secret Raven is Revealed...

Its like a Hot Chick turn out to be a Tranny...Lol all the build up and thats what you got?

78k EHP With 1131 DPS for us poor PVPers, This is what you PVP solo in? Prey you dont jump through a gate into a camp and have to make it Back with 78k EHP and a Sig that big and 118 m/s.

Im sorry but that is bad. And its worse is you acted like it was so great I had missed something about the Raven.

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.09.06 09:16:00 - [775]
 

Edited by: Kail Storm on 06/09/2010 09:16:27
I want to know seriously what you want Liang, How much DMg Buff is enough?

RagnarRox
Posted - 2010.09.06 09:18:00 - [776]
 

I find it funny Liang has a Blog. Maybe he blogs about his CNR love, or maybe he sells the Rat meat and Buy`s ISKies lol.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 09:25:00 - [777]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 06/09/2010 09:31:45
Originally by: Kail Storm
Im sorry but that is bad. And its worse is you acted like it was so great I had missed something about the Raven.


You are missing something great about the Raven - its ability to deal truly absurd amounts of damage at range of the right type. A Mega with 5% hardwirings deals 1350 DPS at 4.5km... a Raven deals 1300-1400 on lowest resist at range. There really is something euphoric about dropping 1500 DPS into a gate camp and watching it disintegrate.

But hey, you go ahead and continue thinking the Raven is a sucky PVP ship that can't deal damage and I'll keep raking in the kills from people who believe you.

-Liang

Ed: Also, overload the invulns. Seriously.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.09.06 09:28:00 - [778]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 06/09/2010 09:28:58
Originally by: Kail Storm
Edited by: Kail Storm on 06/09/2010 09:16:27
I want to know seriously what you want Liang, How much DMg Buff is enough?



15%, and some misc fixes: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1368744&page=20#593

-Liang

Ed: And the reason I have a blog is to consolidate arguments into one place. I got tired of rehashing things (like Tengu arguments) repeatedly.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.09.06 09:44:00 - [779]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

But hey, you go ahead and continue thinking the Raven is a sucky PVP ship that can't deal damage and I'll keep raking in the kills from people who believe you.


I was bored so I looked : Liang's known ships.

Raking in the kills? Not a single kill using a Raven in a year Laughing

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.09.06 09:48:00 - [780]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Liang Nuren

But hey, you go ahead and continue thinking the Raven is a sucky PVP ship that can't deal damage and I'll keep raking in the kills from people who believe you.


I was bored so I looked : Liang's known ships.

Raking in the kills? Not a single kill using a Raven in a year Laughing


Because he only uses one char...amiright?


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