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blankseplocked [Proposal] Red Cross donation for all unused PLEX's lost in game.
 
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Caellach Marellus
Gallente
Nephtys Ventures inc
Posted - 2010.08.09 19:01:00 - [91]
 

I approve of this idea.

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2010.08.09 19:38:00 - [92]
 

not sure if its very practical but hey ill support anything that encourages spreading the love

Peaceful Surrender
Posted - 2010.08.09 19:44:00 - [93]
 

As nice as gratuitous acts of altruism are, CCP need these funds to hire staff, improve the game and continue to provide the great service they always have. I for one feel that CCP should maintain the right to contribute to charities as they see fit, rather than have it imposed on them by a vocal minority of the player base, who could do more themselves rather than force proxy charity in my humble opinion.

tl;dr
fix lag plz.

inexistin
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
Posted - 2010.08.09 19:49:00 - [94]
 

I endorse this here idea

Emperor D'Hoffryn
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.09 20:41:00 - [95]
 

Best. Idea. Evar.

Uvarvu
Caldari
Perkone

Posted - 2010.08.09 20:47:00 - [96]
 

Supported.

Khalia Nestune
Mad Stacks

Posted - 2010.08.09 21:27:00 - [97]
 

I support this idea.

My corp might be Jerks in-game, but the real-life always needs more charity.

fishblades
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.09 21:32:00 - [98]
 

Look at all these bleeding hearts. As with most Liberal/Progressive ideas it's ****ing terrible.

If you want to donate to charity or write a check to the Government around Tax time go ahead, no ones stopping you, but don't try and tell a company what they should do with their money.

fishblades
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.09 21:36:00 - [99]
 

Actually the only people I feel sorry for are the two pilots who got totally screwed by a terrible drop.


Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.09 21:49:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Dr Reinhold on 09/08/2010 22:06:55
Excellent idea.

In mulling around the implications of PLEX destruction, I really only see one big problem with it. In the past, every $15 PLEX eventually (at least potentially) gets redeemed into 30 days of game time. It may trade hands for lots of isk but sooner or later someone uses it for game time. CCP sells 30 days of access for a certain amount of cash. How that 30 days moves around the community is not there concern. Of course someone might sit on that PLEX or even forget they have it but it is always there. It is always a 30 day access potential.

Now, we have the case of PLEX being destroyed. Not a big deal from a game play perspective but from an outside observer, the $15 can be pocketed by CCP but now they never have to provide the service, the 30 days, that it represented. No just sitting there and wondering if they will ever use it. It is now gone and can be closed out in accounting terms. I know that some retailers have run foul of state laws regarding gift cards that never get redeemed. I worked for a retailer in IT during the time that they implemented gift cards and they originally wanted the cards to expire after a year. It bugs accountant to leave liabilities like this just hanging around. That idea got squashed by some of the states that the retailer did business in. I don't know what the current rules and laws are, this was over a decade ago. But I can imagine that this will represent a breach of contract somewhere.

Even if it all turns out to be legal everywhere, which seems unlikely, at the very least it has the potential to be less than popular from a PR perspective. And if ever you have a CCP employee simply playing the game on a regular alt, even during there own freetime, and they make a kill that ends with destroyed PLEX, you could have a very, very messy legal or accounting audit for they potential conflict of interest that it represents.

However, taking the cash value of these PLEXs and donating it to an international and well respected charity like Red Cross could first probably be more easily worked into the EULA, second it removes the conflict of interest as CCP never gets the cash for a service not rendered and third it would create very positive publicity. And it should really be the full price of the PLEX. CCP still gets a little cash from the GTC/PLEX transaction fee so they are not out the cost of handling the transactions.

Besides, how cool would it be to descend on some ****** with bloodthirsty fury and have it result in cash being sent to save people's lives.
"Why, Why you @#%^*!"
"Why? It was for the Childwen! Bwahahahaha!"
Oh the delicious irony.

So thumbs up for this one. Stellar idea. (pun fully intended.)

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks

Posted - 2010.08.09 22:33:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: SencneS on 09/08/2010 22:33:35
I support this but really the only change they need to make is make a PLEX indestructible..

The guy above me I totally agree with, the fact that a CCP employee could willfully go in game declare war on people who are to knowing transport PLEXES (Information which they can obtain) and kill every single one of them within real game mechanics with no "GOD" mode or anything they just know. Is one legal nightmare I would have though CCP would want to avoid.

Simply making PLEXES not be able to be destroyed is the solution. Allow people to transport them sure, if someone kills the ship and it drops an indestructible can with PLEXES in it then that's the transports loss still. Unless he has a buddy right there. It still adds in the joy of killing or even suicide ganking someone for the sweet juicy PLEX reward. The only difference is that game time can still be honored.

I've heard lots of people talk about and try to justify what it means when a PLEX is destroyed. To me it's a quick buck CCP has made at mechanics they implemented. It just seems... shady to me.

If they don't want to give money as a donation (Which they should get TAX breaks for so it's not ALL loss to CCP) then make the PLEX unable to be destroyed ANYWHERE for ANY reason. In a ship it drops a can, separate from the wreck, one that can't be targeted or one that has like 1 Million HP or something. It's as simple as that.

Pancocco
Posted - 2010.08.09 22:59:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: SencneS
Edited by: SencneS on 09/08/2010 22:33:35
I support this but really the only change they need to make is make a PLEX indestructible..

The guy above me I totally agree with, the fact that a CCP employee could willfully go in game declare war on people who are to knowing transport PLEXES (Information which they can obtain) and kill every single one of them within real game mechanics with no "GOD" mode or anything they just know. Is one legal nightmare I would have though CCP would want to avoid.

Simply making PLEXES not be able to be destroyed is the solution. Allow people to transport them sure, if someone kills the ship and it drops an indestructible can with PLEXES in it then that's the transports loss still. Unless he has a buddy right there. It still adds in the joy of killing or even suicide ganking someone for the sweet juicy PLEX reward. The only difference is that game time can still be honored.

I've heard lots of people talk about and try to justify what it means when a PLEX is destroyed. To me it's a quick buck CCP has made at mechanics they implemented. It just seems... shady to me.

If they don't want to give money as a donation (Which they should get TAX breaks for so it's not ALL loss to CCP) then make the PLEX unable to be destroyed ANYWHERE for ANY reason. In a ship it drops a can, separate from the wreck, one that can't be targeted or one that has like 1 Million HP or something. It's as simple as that.


lets not do that.

But lets do what topic sez

Marikitus
Posted - 2010.08.09 23:18:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Marikitus on 09/08/2010 23:21:03
Fantastic idea,
but i think CCP already use that 1300. Why give to charity that money when they can use to buy 1300 beer ( 1 beer = 0.90 ) in spain

100% sure

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.09 23:27:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Dr Reinhold on 09/08/2010 23:29:22
Oh my. I just realized what the real problem is with this. What CCP really will be accused of. Not that it has any basis in fact but that won't matter to a taxing authority or a small army of blood thirsty class action lawyers. The problem is not with the possibility of a CCP employee flying around and ganking PLEX haulers.

I was asking myself, as many others have, who could possibly be stupid enough to buy that much plex, actually have that much isk and be stupid enough to haul it. This person was ganked in Jita. They didn't even get out of the system that they likely bought it all in before they got scanned down and ****d.

Why would anyone do that?

That is really the question that is going to plague CCP. Why indeed, will ask the lawyer. Who would have the most interest and motivation to fill a transport with that much game time? that could be destroyed? There isn't a pirate out there that wouldn't suicide gank his own grandmother for the chance at 1 PLEX let alone 74. But who would take the chance at putting them in space in the first place.

The problem here for CCP is not if they did such a thing. I don't think they would, too stupid. But the problem is that, that fact will not stop the lawyers from filing suit every time a PLEX goes up in flames. This is the real reason that CCP has to remove their own conflict of interest from the destruction of PLEX. Either it is made non-transportable again, indestructible, or the value of the destroyed PLEX gets gets donated so it never sees their bottom line.

Aaron Sarukake
Posted - 2010.08.10 01:09:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Dr Reinhold

That is really the question that is going to plague CCP. Why indeed, will ask the lawyer. Who would have the most interest and motivation to fill a transport with that much game time? that could be destroyed? There isn't a pirate out there that wouldn't suicide gank his own grandmother for the chance at 1 PLEX let alone 74. But who would take the chance at putting them in space in the first place.

The problem here for CCP is not if they did such a thing. I don't think they would, too stupid. But the problem is that, that fact will not stop the lawyers from filing suit every time a PLEX goes up in flames. This is the real reason that CCP has to remove their own conflict of interest from the destruction of PLEX. Either it is made non-transportable again, indestructible, or the value of the destroyed PLEX gets gets donated so it never sees their bottom line.




Isn't going to happen. Lawyers are expensive, and the company is in Iceland. No lawyers will take the case.

Project X592
Posted - 2010.08.10 01:29:00 - [106]
 

Supported. This might get rid of all the tinfoil hat people claiming CCP made PLEX like any other item simply for profit...

Minerva Moore
Posted - 2010.08.10 01:33:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Anitta Blake
I suggest that CCP make a donation to the Red Cross for each plex lost in game due to change in Game Mechanics

<snip>

I feel cpp should give a percentage of the profit in this case to a charity due the the fact it no longer has to honor 30 days of game time that was paid up front when the plex was purchased.

precedent for plex donation has been set by the "plex aid for haiti"



This is a thoroughly stupid idea. There is no difference in real-money value between a PLEX and anything else in the game. It's all in your head.

First: It's not true that CCP do not have to "honor 30 days of game time that was paid up front". Game time is no longer what they are selling. They are selling a PLEX in-game item, which may or may not be converted to game time, and may or may not be sold for isk. The idea that a PLEX have some sort of special real-world value that suddenly disappears when the PLEX is transformed into or example a ship (by selling it for game-money and buying the ship) is completely irrational.

Second: No PLEX is destroyed "as a result of the new mechanics". They are destroyed as a result of the player making the choice to remove them from the station and haul them around in space. The only thing that changed is that we were previously prevented from hauling PLEX and now we are not. But neither are we required to do so.

PLEX are in-game items now. Just like, for example, all the ships you guys lost in your failed attempt at destroying the NC. Would you like to suggest that CCP give money to charity for those too?

Mike deVoid
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2010.08.10 01:43:00 - [108]
 


Solostrom
Posted - 2010.08.10 02:00:00 - [109]
 

I <3 this idea!

Revenatis
Haters Gonna Hate
Posted - 2010.08.10 02:19:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Dr Reinhold
Excellent idea.

By which you meant terrible idea.
Quote:
It may trade hands for lots of isk but sooner or later someone uses it for game time.

Maybe, unless someone let it sit in their inventory somewhere and quit the game, or kept it for other reasons, but whatever.
Quote:
CCP sells 30 days of access for a certain amount of cash.

No CCP doesn't. See, you have no grasp of facts already, right off the bat! CCP sells 60 day GTCs. That's it. Players can directly use, sell, or giveaway GTCs. GTCs are "indestructible" in that they aren't game items at all.

Players may then choose to convert those GTCs into 30 day PLEX. Or not. CCP has no say in the matter, makes no suggestions, or really anything else. They got their money already, they gave somebody the GTC, their role is done.
Quote:
Now, we have the case of PLEX being destroyed. Not a big deal from a game play perspective but from an outside observer, the $15 can be pocketed by CCP but now they never have to provide the service, the 30 days, that it represented. No just sitting there and wondering if they will ever use it. It is now gone and can be closed out in accounting terms.

So what? The exact same thing could be said of every single other item in the game. All of them are worth ISK. "Potentially" any of that ISK could be used to buy game time. Those items, some worth multiple times that of a PLEX which isn't worth much ISK, get routinely destroyed and always have. So what?
Quote:
I know that some retailers have run foul of state laws regarding gift cards that never get redeemed. I worked for a retailer in IT during the time that they implemented gift cards and they originally wanted the cards to expire after a year.

Not applicable, a GTC is not a measure of general value. It isn't a gift card, CCP prohibits RMT. There's no possibility of ever getting any cash for it (legitimately). It's a token worth something in-game, and if you choose to destroy it that's your business.

Quote:
I was asking myself, as many others have, who could possibly be stupid enough to buy that much plex, actually have that much isk and be stupid enough to haul it. This person was ganked in Jita. They didn't even get out of the system that they likely bought it all in before they got scanned down and ****d.

Learn your facts. They didn't get ganked, they undocked with war targets right there. They got shot, by war targets, who didn't even know what they had in their cargo hold and in fact popped the wreck without checking (because hey, who would carry anything on a t1 frigate?).
Quote:
Why would anyone do that?

Because they suck (or were drunk/high/tired/just made a mistake). Welcome to EVE. Why would someone bring an Orca out to a belt in nullsec and have it sitting there without eyes in the surrounding systems? Why would someone think their Golem could tank a full logi-backed HAC gang and engage? Etc etc. I chose those because I personally saw them (on the attacking side). Every PvPer out there will have their own stories of both epic fights but also hilariously dumb moves. People make mistakes. And EVE, to an extent, allows that. If you want Handholding Online then go elsewhere. People have the right to make their choices here.

Adora Femella
Posted - 2010.08.10 06:03:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Peaceful Surrender
As nice as gratuitous acts of altruism are, CCP need these funds to hire staff, improve the game and continue to provide the great service they always have. I for one feel that CCP should maintain the right to contribute to charities as they see fit, rather than have it imposed on them by a vocal minority of the player base, who could do more themselves rather than force proxy charity in my humble opinion.




This. People being generous with other peoples money is pretty disgusting TBH.

Not supported.

Liandra Xi
Amarr
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2010.08.10 06:15:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Liandra Xi on 10/08/2010 06:15:36
Supported. CCP will make an obscene profit off destroyed plex, either make then so they cannot be destroyed or donate the money from them to charity, either way or CCP is nothing but greedy capitalist pigs :P

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.10 06:18:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Dr Reinhold on 10/08/2010 06:30:21
Originally by: Revenatis

By which you meant terrible idea.


No, by which I meant "excellent idea", thus my cleaver use of the phrase "excellent idea." I must admit that I didn't anticipate this portion of what I wrote needing clarification.

Quote:

Maybe, unless someone let it sit in their inventory somewhere and quit the game, or kept it for other reasons, but whatever.


Quite true, which is why I mentioned that someone may sit on the PLEX or forget they have it. The point is that while a PLEX may go unused it still represents a potential 30 day of game time redemption and therefore looms out there as a potential liability that CCP may some day, for all they know, have to redeem into game time.

Quote:

No CCP doesn't. See, you have no grasp of facts already, right off the bat! CCP sells 60 day GTCs. That's it. Players can directly use, sell, or giveaway GTCs. GTCs are "indestructible" in that they aren't game items at all.

Players may then choose to convert those GTCs into 30 day PLEX. Or not. CCP has no say in the matter, makes no suggestions, or really anything else. They got their money already, they gave somebody the GTC, their role is done.


Ahh, well yes and no. Yes, CCP only sells game time in packages of 60 days, this much is true. To which I was not being so very precise in my phrasing. Though truthfully they do sell 30 day of access for a certain amount of cash, you simply cannot get the 30 days alone but rather you must also get it with another 30 days as well. Much like how Hostess sell Twinkies though you buy them in packages of two.

The no comes in that CCP not only sells 60 day GTCs but they also sell PLEX directly into the game, with no need to first purchase a GTC.
https://secure.eveonline.com/PLEX.aspx

Even so, what you attempted there was to impugn my supposed understanding of the facts on the basis that I made what amounts to a semantic error in what I wrote. Aside from whether or not there is actually an error, though I could certainly have been clearer, it still remains a Red Herring to the overall argument. Truly it doesn't matter whether game time is bought in groups of 1, 2, 10 or whatever amount. Cash is paid and by one method or another is eventually, for our purposes here, it is monetized into the game economy as 30 day units know as PLEX. That game time can be bought as a GTC and never converted into PLEX is also immaterial. This whole discussion has been over PLEX and the implications of its destruction.

Quote:

So what? The exact same thing could be said of every single other item in the game. All of them are worth ISK. "Potentially" any of that ISK could be used to buy game time. Those items, some worth multiple times that of a PLEX which isn't worth much ISK, get routinely destroyed and always have. So what?


Thus why I said "Not a big deal from a game play perspective." From the game perspective it is just another items with an ISK value. But that it has an ISK value in the game is immaterial as well. The object, virtual though it may be yet represents at 30 day service liability. That is, until it is destroyed. Again, I do not see where this contributes to your overall argument.

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.10 06:22:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Dr Reinhold on 10/08/2010 06:36:09
Quote:

Not applicable, a GTC is not a measure of general value. It isn't a gift card, CCP prohibits RMT. There's no possibility of ever getting any cash for it (legitimately). It's a token worth something in-game, and if you choose to destroy it that's your business.


Once again, strictly speaking, the discussion wasn't on GTC but rather PLEX and either way, both represent a very precise amount of value, a certain amount of game time which is regularly sold for a particular amount of money. All a gift card is, is a barcode or magnetic strip coded number that maps to an amount of in store credit, much as the GTC is only an alphanumeric code that maps to an amount or credit of the single product which is game time in EVE. That gift cards can be redeemed for multiple items and GTC can be redeemed for only one item is, once again, immaterial. Further, many if not most retailers will not give you cash back for the value of your gift card or any unspent portion of it if they have the ability to denominate cards in any value. Normally the retailer will simply put your remaining value back on to another card.

Quote:

Learn your facts. They didn't get ganked, they undocked with war targets right there. They got shot, by war targets, who didn't even know what they had in their cargo hold and in fact popped the wreck without checking (because hey, who would carry anything on a t1 frigate?).


First, can you not get ganked by a war target? Perhaps I don't know the finer meanings and proper usage of the word "Gank" and its derivatives. Though, since this is not the only game that uses the term I suspect there exists a bit of fluidity in how the word is used. I was using the term "Ganked" in the sense that someone, presumably quite by surprise, got killed by someone else. That is to say, the victim, did not go looking for the fight but rather the aggressor brought it to them uninvited. To bad for the victim. He should have been more careful.
Second, that the aggressor didn't know what was in the victim's cargo is precisely what I was getting at. That the possibility is that the aggressor was not trying to destroy the timecards but rather that it all looks bad because it appears possible that the victim, in fact, was trying to put the PLEXs in to harms way. You yourself provide to more reasons why this all looks bad. Why would the person fly with PLEX while in a corp that is wardec'd and why fly in such a small and vulnerable craft? Again, I don't think for a minute that CCP did any of this purposefully but rather only that, from a PR perspective at the least, it makes them look bad or at worse, someone is trying to set them up.

Quote:

Because they suck (or were drunk/high/tired/just made a mistake). Welcome to EVE. Why would someone bring an Orca out to a belt in nullsec and have it sitting there without eyes in the surrounding systems? Why would someone think their Golem could tank a full logi-backed HAC gang and engage? Etc etc. I chose those because I personally saw them (on the attacking side). Every PvPer out there will have their own stories of both epic fights but also hilariously dumb moves. People make mistakes. And EVE, to an extent, allows that. If you want Handholding Online then go elsewhere. People have the right to make their choices here.


But, that other possibilities exist does not preclude the possibilities that I put forward. And it is precisely because the actions taken by the victim where stupid on so many levels that it somewhat supports the idea that something in their motivation was out of place. But you do make the fair point that the victim could have just been spectacularly stupid. Of course someone spectacularly stupid who happened to have access to 22 billion ISK or so. Either their own or their corporation's. The lesson, don't give the village idiot access to your corp wallet or even a T1 frigate if you can help it.

Hugh Munguss
Posted - 2010.08.10 06:46:00 - [115]
 

NO!

...for all you charity lovers here you go linkage

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.10 06:51:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Aaron Sarukake

Isn't going to happen. Lawyers are expensive, and the company is in Iceland. No lawyers will take the case.



Because Iceland is too primitive to have their own lawyers?

And its not like CCP has offices in other countries that might have lawyers.

It is true that lawyers are expensive. But it is only a matter of time before $15 at a time adds up to an amount that will make a lawyer take interest in what they might be able to shake CCP down for in a settlement on behalf of a bunch of poor plebes like us.

Tiberius Drake
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.10 06:57:00 - [117]
 

Do not support.

I'm all for CCP making money from stupid people. Perhaps they can use this money to fix the many problems in the their game.

However, I may support it if the OP makes a similar donation to the Red Cross with his own money.

Mjraa
Viziam

Posted - 2010.08.10 07:21:00 - [118]
 

Great!

Tyr Aeron
Therapy.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.08.10 07:34:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Tyr Aeron on 10/08/2010 07:40:52
Edited by: Tyr Aeron on 10/08/2010 07:36:23 trying to get the link to work

Oh, it's a very nice idea, no matter how you slice it. Give it to charity, use it to fix EVE, either way.....too bad neither one is going to happen. Instead, any profit CCP makes for the next 10-20 years is going to be used to pay off this idiot's debts.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE66L1B020100722 - His investment company owns stock in CCP. My guess is that it's a very signifigant chunk, like, oh say 51%. Explains a few things, doesn't it?

Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.10 08:47:00 - [120]
 

Hell, big benefit is it will silence all the "destroying plex is immoral!" threads. Worth supporting for that reason alone.


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