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Salome Musashi
Aura of Darkness
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.08.08 03:52:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Xanadu Alexis
I don't see the problem really with PI.
I'm making about 20M a day with 5 planets, and I spend about 15 minutes clicking a day, and another 10 hauling goods.

Sure, it's not billions, but it pays for my Plexes :)



^^ This.

I profitted about 100m in a month of screwing around and trying PI out for fun, AFTER I donated my Enriched Uranium to the corp. I'm not sure what the hauling controversy is, high-risk bulk hauling is why CCP made Rorquals and Jump Freighters...

Gorgo Nova
Posted - 2010.08.08 10:14:00 - [32]
 

Heavy Dictors using Focused Warp Disruption Script DO warp scramble you (even in Lowsec) with a warp scramble strength of 1000points!! (info from eve database dump)

So wcs gets completly useless against a HIC using that script.

rain9441
Big Head Want Dolly
Posted - 2010.08.08 14:24:00 - [33]
 

To swing this back into topic...

The OP was talking about throwing in the towel/quitting/etc. Now we have established that if you are going to haul PI materials from low sec (deep low sec, 0.1 or so) to high sec to sell, the only way you are going to not die is to have a T2 Transport ship, Blockade runner class (NOT a DST). So for the marginal increase in extraction rates, (Yes i know its 'significant' but due to the fact that you have to have more processors than extractors you really lose out on alot of the bonus) you have two options. First option is to accept the fact that a % of your goods will be destroyed to due to pirates and your implants will have a few nervous ticks when your pod gets a lock attempt. This is because you are taking an industrial ship to low sec. The second option is to train Transports I, Cloaking IV, and get yourself a Blockade Runner.

But alas, it makes absolutely no sense to spend that much time training for a Blockade Runner just to haul PI materials out of low sec (not to mention T2 transports are expensive for a new player). If you have BR's, you're likely using them to make bank on transporting something that has a little bit better of a value/m3 ratio.

And so, you really are forced to take the first option (Buy a crappy industrial and take many many many many many trips through low sec).



So, for low sec PI, the barriers to entry are actually quite significant compared to high sec PI. And high sec PI well... Drox has that one nailed down if I am reading between the lines correctly. But to me, Drox is making his money trading, not doing PI, it just so happens that PI is in the mix.


If someone were to setup a super low sec PI hub where I could just haul a load 1-3 jumps and sell, great. After all, most of this crap probably goes to low/null sec anyway. But there in lies the problem, soon as the pirates figure out that there is a swarm of haulers all over the hub in low sec, they'll just camp the area and blow everyone up.

Blame CCP for thinking epic extraction rates in low sec was a good idea.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.08.08 15:32:00 - [34]
 

@Above (actually several posts).

I know I'll break some eggs in some baskets but it's not even mathematically true that low sec planets have to yield more than hi sec.

By doing a decent homework it's possible to find hi sec gems with high-ish-yield planets AND ability to produce everything in 1-2 close systems. On the contrary, it's also possible to be in low sec and find absolutely crappy planets (some are as bad as hi sec), despite comparing same low sec vs low sec systems.

Now that I have made 3/4 of the homework, get out and profit.

Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.08 16:01:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: rain9441

But alas, it makes absolutely no sense to spend that much time training for a Blockade Runner just to haul PI materials out of low sec (not to mention T2 transports are expensive for a new player). If you have BR's, you're likely using them to make bank on transporting something that has a little bit better of a value/m3 ratio.

And so, you really are forced to take the first option (Buy a crappy industrial and take many many many many many trips through low sec).



Wrong, if you have that BR, you can move PI on the side, with 4 extraction planets, it's like 2 trips a day, nothing more, for a steady income of at least 20M a day.
I have a lovely gem of Null sec, 2 jumps from high sec, there's not really anything better than this.. null sec ore yields + only 2 jumps to high sec with my goods. It's a wonderfull moneymaker.

So far I've had 1 gatecamp to bust through on my dayly trips.

Yes, it's a lot more of an investment than 'entry level', but this is low and null sec, so it's for more veteran people.
a noobie can make a lot of cash on high sec planets, building himself a little capital from that, sure it's not the 20M a day I'm pulling now, or more, but even 10M a day from somethign that takes 30 minutes a day at most is good money.

My 2nd account, which I just activated, is going to be a trader, I'm certainly going to be using PI to give her a little
starting fund. ( since I can't really afford giving her much money from my main, who's too busy getting blown up, and paying for the plexes for the 2nd account )



KoffeeKup
Caldari
Gh0st Hunters
Sspectre
Posted - 2010.08.08 18:57:00 - [36]
 

It's really not that hard to avoid anyone in low sec, I'm using a badger II and I'm doing fine, i took it into Ev0ke territory and almost got blown to bits by 3 guys. I made it out without a scratch and set up on a few low sec planets. I did all of this with no cloak. about 1 every week i make a trip out to my planets but now i have a cloak, so no big deal and i have almost broke even on my first planet i have out there. its not hard, you just need to be careful and plan your planet out before you start building. Figure out what you want to build and then plan appropriately.

Esge Shala
Amarr
Amarrian Micro Devices
Posted - 2010.08.09 09:23:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Esge Shala on 09/08/2010 09:24:24
first 2 or 3 weeks after command center seeding were testing and research for setups and what is good to produce.
and since then until today i made about 600m selling PI products.
running 5 planets in low sec, had to spend like 15-20mins daily on it, which is usually a nice little break in work.

Propotkin
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2010.08.09 11:22:00 - [38]
 

I dont see why people keep greifing about PI, I do the clickfest for about 15mins a day and haul for a bout 10mins and im making "AT LEAST" 100mil a day from selling what i make (obv im not about to reveal what im making so dont ask).

If people dont like the click fest then dont do PI - or anyother part of eve as what ever your doing your clicking :)

Simon Sei
Posted - 2010.08.09 12:59:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Pha3drus
Its possibly the single most boring thing I have ever done in this game.


I think a gate camp is still more boring.

Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2010.08.09 15:33:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Pha3drus
Its possibly the single most boring thing I have ever done in this game.


I'm still training up the PI stuff, slowly. Seems like the kinda of thing you would do while waiting for other real time stuff to happen, like sitting in a big mining op or waiting for friends to log on to run plex/WH sites, etc.

It's kinda unfortunate that the cycle time mechanic asks you to predict when you'll next have free BS time available, where ideally instead it could just follow a degrading extraction amount (first 30 minutes optimal, next 4 hours .75, next 20 hours .5, next 3 days .25 rate, something like that). Then you could bounce over and clickfest when you have free time, without having to try and guess your next free moment.




Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2010.08.09 15:37:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: rain9441
To swing this back into topic...

...

But alas, it makes absolutely no sense to spend that much time training for a Blockade Runner just to haul PI materials out of low sec (not to mention T2 transports are expensive for a new player). If you have BR's, you're likely using them to make bank on transporting something that has a little bit better of a value/m3 ratio.

And so, you really are forced to take the first option (Buy a crappy industrial and take many many many many many trips through low sec).

...

If someone were to setup a super low sec PI hub where I could just haul a load 1-3 jumps and sell, great. After all, most of this crap probably goes to low/null sec anyway. But there in lies the problem, soon as the pirates figure out that there is a swarm of haulers all over the hub in low sec, they'll just camp the area and blow everyone up.

Blame CCP for thinking epic extraction rates in low sec was a good idea.


Just a guess, but if you did this at any of the low sec entry points where cap ships/jump freighters enter to high sec, you could probably get a decent market/margin on them.

The problem is, much like the rest of low sec there's really no point. Null sec is basically safer and produces superior products.

rain9441
Big Head Want Dolly
Posted - 2010.08.09 15:39:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: rain9441 on 09/08/2010 16:06:02
Originally by: Propotkin
I dont see why people keep greifing about PI, I do the clickfest for about 15mins a day and haul for a bout 10mins and im making "AT LEAST" 100mil a day from selling what i make (obv im not about to reveal what im making so dont ask).

If people dont like the click fest then dont do PI - or anyother part of eve as what ever your doing your clicking :)


<EDIT: Bunch of mumbo jumbo was here because i was off on a tangent.>

If your making any significant ISK on PI right now, you're making coolant, nobody has to ask.

Jane Vherokior
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2010.08.09 18:02:00 - [43]
 

Been running four toons across three accounts since release, total about 20ish moons. Been mostly doing POS fuels for my own POS's, but since I'm scaling back on POS installations I'll probably concentrate on one or two of the materials that actually make some isk. Most of the POS fuels aren't even worth bothering with.

Lars Scanier
Posted - 2010.08.09 18:45:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: rain9441
Edited by: rain9441 on 09/08/2010 16:06:02
Originally by: Propotkin
I dont see why people keep greifing about PI, I do the clickfest for about 15mins a day and haul for a bout 10mins and im making "AT LEAST" 100mil a day from selling what i make (obv im not about to reveal what im making so dont ask).

If people dont like the click fest then dont do PI - or anyother part of eve as what ever your doing your clicking :)


<EDIT: Bunch of mumbo jumbo was here because i was off on a tangent.>

If your making any significant ISK on PI right now, you're making coolant, nobody has to ask.


Yes Coolant is the major winner ATM, but there are still several others that are yielding nice profit also for those of us without multiple Coolant favoring planets.

Rikki Sals
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.10 00:39:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Investigator Spruillo


A blockade runner with even just 4 warp stabs in the 6 lows along with the native +2 warp strength would take over 2 tacklers to stop. Even 2 tacklers with say.. 1 each true sansha warp scrams would just match your warp strength at +6 and youd still warp away.




Please do this. YARRRR!!Laughing
Also, please don't do any research as to how interdictors are used in low sec. And don't look at this while you're at it. Rolling Eyes

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2010.08.10 06:14:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 10/08/2010 06:15:13

If your stabbing a BR your using the wrong one or using it wrong.You can run all over lowsec in a cloaky BR. 0.0 is a bit more tricky, but stabs wont save you there either. In low sec you should never get locked. In 0.0 you should only get locked if your in a bubble and an inty is on his toes and manages to decloak you before you get out of a bubble. At any rate they can just bump you. Low sec pirates are usually pretty good at bumping. Pretty much if you get locked in a BR your probably dead regardless of how many stabs you have on it.



Ned Black
Posted - 2010.08.10 07:54:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Lars Scanier
Originally by: rain9441
Edited by: rain9441 on 09/08/2010 16:06:02
Originally by: Propotkin
I dont see why people keep greifing about PI, I do the clickfest for about 15mins a day and haul for a bout 10mins and im making "AT LEAST" 100mil a day from selling what i make (obv im not about to reveal what im making so dont ask).

If people dont like the click fest then dont do PI - or anyother part of eve as what ever your doing your clicking :)


<EDIT: Bunch of mumbo jumbo was here because i was off on a tangent.>

If your making any significant ISK on PI right now, you're making coolant, nobody has to ask.


Yes Coolant is the major winner ATM, but there are still several others that are yielding nice profit also for those of us without multiple Coolant favoring planets.


Yea, the key to that is "ATM".

Because now all see that Oh! Coolant is nice! Lets switch all production to Cooland and make a killing!!!1!

Only suddenly the market is flooded with coolan, prices drop and another comodity is introduced as top notch.

Personally I use mainly three chars to do my PI, but I do it for personal usage and not for profit. I think in the long run thought I have made a few mills out of it in total, but not any huge profits... I have a lot of pos fuel readily available thought :D

Thumiel Zaul
NeoCom Experiments
Posted - 2010.08.10 07:56:00 - [48]
 

Hmm,

I initially invested 40 million into PI in total, to set up my P2 chain, currently have sold 120 million isk of stuff. Not sure why people are complaining about PI so much, making money isnt that hard especially with current prices being so hig.

Even if the prices were low, it still pretty decent to get oney from spending 15 mins per day clicking some buttons,its the easiest money I have ever made..

Trinkets friend
Posted - 2010.08.10 08:47:00 - [49]
 

I trade. I spend about 3-4 hours a month hauling stuff from point A to point B and rake in 1-1.5Bn in profit. PI is a disaster in lowsec because, like crocodiles, pirates will learn your habits and rituals and track you down and blow you up. PI does OK in a wormhole environment because you get free POS fuel.

The current coolant shortage is because PI isn't keeping up with demand, and the buffer of font-spawned items has run down. This is because the price signal isn't there to convince people to do the clickfest. Maybe prices will settle out as the rewards climb to meet the boredom factor, but whichever way you look at it, POSs just got more expensive to run. This will only continue in the future.

Makia Velli
Posted - 2010.08.10 09:41:00 - [50]
 

1.2 bilj in my pocket after maybe 6 weeks of click click click in a wormhole.. Initial investment maybe something like 40-50M so pretty nice return.. Time investment was bout 20min a day and 3 chars operating on 8 planets making mainly POS fuels for mah towers. Quite a few sideprojects too that focused just to get a quick buck out of the market.

Few factory planets and others just putting as much raw materials out as possible. If it was possible i used basic processors to refine **** a bit.

That was sometimes a bit tedious when people started to dumb lvl 3 commodities for prices well under their material cost but patience prevails and in the end got my fare share.

PI is not highly lucrative business but the entry level ainīt that high so n00bs such as yours truly can make buck too.

propotkin's alt
Posted - 2010.08.10 11:17:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: propotkin''s alt on 10/08/2010 11:18:14
Originally by: Lars Scanier
Originally by: rain9441
Edited by: rain9441 on 09/08/2010 16:06:02
Originally by: Propotkin
I dont see why people keep greifing about PI, I do the clickfest for about 15mins a day and haul for a bout 10mins and im making "AT LEAST" 100mil a day from selling what i make (obv im not about to reveal what im making so dont ask).

If people dont like the click fest then dont do PI - or anyother part of eve as what ever your doing your clicking :)


<EDIT: Bunch of mumbo jumbo was here because i was off on a tangent.>

If your making any significant ISK on PI right now, you're making coolant, nobody has to ask.


Yes Coolant is the major winner ATM, but there are still several others that are yielding nice profit also for those of us without multiple Coolant favoring planets.


nope but i'll take a look at that as i have 2 free planets :) DOH! at forgetting to click on my main eeek

Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
Posted - 2010.08.10 11:30:00 - [52]
 

There is decent money in PI, you just have to find your own ideal balance. Sure you can become (relatively) rich if you focus on it but considering all the tedious work involved in such case you'll probably get burnt out pretty soon if you go too far. Personally, I am looking at PI as another nice secondary opportunity to add some iskies to my wallet.

Jeeta Ho
Posted - 2010.08.10 11:41:00 - [53]
 

Yeah, took the "write off"... couldn't stand the monotony of clicking... and with a few basic improvements CCP could have made such a superior product out of PI... like having some sort of "master control" to reset all extractors on each planet with just one click, not 18 or 20 or whatever.

Processor cycles could be improved, too... either with more input/output per cycle or just making the processing cycles faster.

It all comes down to "time", as in "waste of...", as in I can feel my soul being sucked out through my eyeballs with such a boring, repetitive "clickfest", nevermind if it's actually making ISK while certain materials are red hot in Jita right now.

ugh

Dirk Smacker
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2010.08.10 16:41:00 - [54]
 

Towers are going for half what they did pre-PI. I'm so glad PI isn't for a lot of you here. If it were any easier, it'd be an impossible source of income.

Personally, I've made a good amount of isk and will continue with it. The more tears PI generates, the more profit I will make.

Berikath
Posted - 2010.08.10 18:03:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Jeeta Ho
Yeah, took the "write off"... couldn't stand the monotony of clicking... and with a few basic improvements CCP could have made such a superior product out of PI... like having some sort of "master control" to reset all extractors on each planet with just one click, not 18 or 20 or whatever.

Processor cycles could be improved, too... either with more input/output per cycle or just making the processing cycles faster.

It all comes down to "time", as in "waste of...", as in I can feel my soul being sucked out through my eyeballs with such a boring, repetitive "clickfest", nevermind if it's actually making ISK while certain materials are red hot in Jita right now.

ugh


You can set cycles which only need attention once a day. This is not a whole lot of clicking (and is a whole lot less than you're gonna do with pretty much anything else in game).

You can set 4-day cycles, which are even longer, require even less clicking, and if you can't manage that then you must have trouble with all the clicking it takes to sell your PLEXes... I mean, really.

Javajunky
Posted - 2010.08.10 19:45:00 - [56]
 

Be nice if it were just a skill book thing, I'd skill it out in a heartbeat but something like that, what are the odds.

Resource Management
Gain the abliity to recylce all extractors, for each level you will be able to recylce 1 planet, Level 5 allows for 6 planets to recylced with a single action.

Requires
Command Center Upgrades V
Interplanetary Consolidation V


Java

Simon Man
Posted - 2010.08.10 20:14:00 - [57]
 

What are you guys doing to not be able to make your money back? I simply use two characters and 9 planets (8 with extractors, 1 that's simply for processing) all in low sec and focusing on one particular P3 material. I am currently pulling in around 100 million a week spending about 30 minutes a day switching on extractors, hauling, importing and exporting materials. I have a theoretical maximum income of 146'ish million isk every 7 days, but that requires I be Johnny On The Spot, which im not. Its a bit tedious, but I treat it like a job and its almost completely passive income, I don't know why people would give it up.

Berikath
Posted - 2010.08.10 20:25:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Simon Man
What are you guys doing to not be able to make your money back? I simply use two characters and 9 planets (8 with extractors, 1 that's simply for processing) all in low sec and focusing on one particular P3 material. I am currently pulling in around 100 million a week spending about 30 minutes a day switching on extractors, hauling, importing and exporting materials. I have a theoretical maximum income of 146'ish million isk every 7 days, but that requires I be Johnny On The Spot, which im not. Its a bit tedious, but I treat it like a job and its almost completely passive income, I don't know why people would give it up.


Because there are people in the game who write things like:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1365243

*note- here's the thread title:*
POS FUEL IS TOO EXPENSIVE - STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHEAP FUEL!!!

That pretty much says it all for the stupid involved.

Emissary Apollo
Posted - 2010.08.10 20:26:00 - [59]
 

You've got to be doing something wrong! I made 25M at Jita running P1 materials as a test. Now that I've done a bit more research; I'm working to expand my operation to run P3 on five planets. Serious...this is easy money.

Simon Man
Posted - 2010.08.10 20:59:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Berikath
Originally by: Simon Man
What are you guys doing to not be able to make your money back? I simply use two characters and 9 planets (8 with extractors, 1 that's simply for processing) all in low sec and focusing on one particular P3 material. I am currently pulling in around 100 million a week spending about 30 minutes a day switching on extractors, hauling, importing and exporting materials. I have a theoretical maximum income of 146'ish million isk every 7 days, but that requires I be Johnny On The Spot, which im not. Its a bit tedious, but I treat it like a job and its almost completely passive income, I don't know why people would give it up.


Because there are people in the game who write things like:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1365243

*note- here's the thread title:*
POS FUEL IS TOO EXPENSIVE - STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHEAP FUEL!!!

That pretty much says it all for the stupid involved.


If people want to quit PI, fine, go, and........ "can i haz ur xtractorz"?Laughing

Seriously, there are no shortage of things in this game that are hard to do and aren't even really "fun" in the classic game sense. Running a 1000 person alliance? Its like herding cats. But its challenging and that's why I play Eve and not WoW or some other "Everybody gets a cookie" type of game. I really, really, really have no problem with PI producers getting frustrated and quitting, that is only going to help my edge up my profits in a big way. In fact, I already see it starting to happen. PI is completly unique to Eve in that sense, there is no cost for raw materials, its only how long it will take to pay back your start up costs. Once you pay back your set up cost, your profit margin is whatever the buy orders are.


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