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blankseplocked Is the sacrelidge worth getting?
 
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loganonekenobi
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:02:00 - [1]
 

The amarr t2 and t3 ships have a history of bad oppinion. I like them because of the resistences. However, when I trained for the vengence and then latter on the legion I find that i can't compete with the other t2 and t3 vesles. My intentions with the sacrelidge is to do level 4 missions untill I have made enough isk to replace it and the equipment then go wonder off to 0.0 to rat and hunt for unsuspecting player (gota pay back the pirates!) So give me some advice on this choice and explain the why of it in non eve language as i don't have all of the lingo down yet.

superteds
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:16:00 - [2]
 

calling troll

Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:22:00 - [3]
 

Why do you want to do this? Why not get a BS or t3 or something to run lvl 4s and then fly cheap stuff into .0 to explode in a blaze of glory? I guarantee that until you get some experience the outcome will be the same either way. (you blowing up that is.)

Zilberfrid
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:44:00 - [4]
 

Yes, the sac will be able to tank the missions. But so will a drake or prophecy, perhaps a harbringer too The problem is outgoing DPS, that is lacking with a sac. The ship is an excellent choice when you play in amarr space and want to run missions not against the usual rats as well, due to omnitank and damage selection.

I think it might be best to use a BS in l4's, or a t3.

loganonekenobi
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:47:00 - [5]
 

I thought about that but what cheap ship would you sugest. Remember that i need to have enough fire power to take down 1 million isk battle ships and still be able to zip from gate to gate all alone. should I use a typhoon in low sec or a myr. From what i've seen anything less gets blasted by the rats so bad that i make no isk.

Veliria
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:51:00 - [6]
 

The main issue with a Sacrilege in missions is range.
It has no range bonuses and that means that even with good skills, you're limited to 15-17km, maybe a little more with Javelins.
That means you're royally screwed against anything that decides to orbit you outside that range or when groups spawn 100km apart.
Also means that if you get webbed by a tower 80km away, you'd have to wait for your 15m3 dronebay to kill it before you can hit anything.

Can a Sacrilege tank a level 4?
Easily, especially with an Afterburner to speed tank most of the damage.

Can it complete them?
Maybe, but you may have to wait a few hours while you slowly AB to each individual BS.

Get an Amarr or faction battleship if you want to use Amarr for missions.

seany1212
The Scowling Men
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:54:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Zilberfrid
Yes, the sac will be able to tank the missions. But so will a drake or prophecy, perhaps a harbringer too The problem is outgoing DPS, that is lacking with a sac. The ship is an excellent choice when you play in amarr space and want to run missions not against the usual rats as well, due to omnitank and damage selection.

I think it might be best to use a BS in l4's, or a t3.


DPS lacking with a sac??? go onto eft, chose all level 5s tab, add 5 HAM 2's with rage ammo and 2 BCU's with 3 hobgob 2's and you have 549 dps right there, sac is one of the heaviest dps cruisers i know of, ive seen it **** over drake tanks in pvp and still tanks a stupid amount of damage.

Veliria
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:57:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Veliria on 06/08/2010 06:57:14
Originally by: seany1212
Originally by: Zilberfrid
Yes, the sac will be able to tank the missions. But so will a drake or prophecy, perhaps a harbringer too The problem is outgoing DPS, that is lacking with a sac. The ship is an excellent choice when you play in amarr space and want to run missions not against the usual rats as well, due to omnitank and damage selection.

I think it might be best to use a BS in l4's, or a t3.


DPS lacking with a sac??? go onto eft, chose all level 5s tab, add 5 HAM 2's with rage ammo and 2 BCU's with 3 hobgob 2's and you have 549 dps right there, sac is one of the heaviest dps cruisers i know of, ive seen it **** over drake tanks in pvp and still tanks a stupid amount of damage.


The downside is, to put out 549 DPS (which is indeed quite good for a cruiser) you'll generally have to gimp your tank somewhat.
If you plate it, a Drake may still win out in raw basic DPS (7 HAMs with 1 dmg bonus VS 5 HAMs with 2 dmg bonus) and raw HP.
Repping it and putting out 549 DPS means a crappy active tank, or atleast one that won't survive long enough against a Drake.
Also keep in mind, you can probably field 4 Drakes for the price of a single Sacrilege.

loganonekenobi
Posted - 2010.08.06 07:02:00 - [9]
 

and on that note wich ammar bs should i use for the mission. should i use the armegedon and the pulse lasers or the abandon and the beam lasers. The point is that i am trying to figure a direction to train so that i can afford the losses i will incure in low sec or joining the navy.

Veliria
Posted - 2010.08.06 07:10:00 - [10]
 

If you've never done an Amarr BS before, I'd recommend an Apoc.
With a cap bonus and no rate of fire bonus it is forgiving on capacitor and with 4 mids and a range bonus you can it to reach most rats with ease while remaining comfortably cap stable.
Fit beams unless you can use T2 large pulse lasers, in which case you use Scorch.

Zilberfrid
Posted - 2010.08.06 07:27:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Veliria
Edited by: Veliria on 06/08/2010 06:57:14
Originally by: seany1212
Originally by: Zilberfrid
Yes, the sac will be able to tank the missions. But so will a drake or prophecy, perhaps a harbringer too The problem is outgoing DPS, that is lacking with a sac. The ship is an excellent choice when you play in amarr space and want to run missions not against the usual rats as well, due to omnitank and damage selection.

I think it might be best to use a BS in l4's, or a t3.


DPS lacking with a sac??? go onto eft, chose all level 5s tab, add 5 HAM 2's with rage ammo and 2 BCU's with 3 hobgob 2's and you have 549 dps right there, sac is one of the heaviest dps cruisers i know of, ive seen it **** over drake tanks in pvp and still tanks a stupid amount of damage.


The downside is, to put out 549 DPS (which is indeed quite good for a cruiser) you'll generally have to gimp your tank somewhat.
If you plate it, a Drake may still win out in raw basic DPS (7 HAMs with 1 dmg bonus VS 5 HAMs with 2 dmg bonus) and raw HP.
Repping it and putting out 549 DPS means a crappy active tank, or atleast one that won't survive long enough against a Drake.
Also keep in mind, you can probably field 4 Drakes for the price of a single Sacrilege.

I forgot about the rage and maybe had a few wrong numbers in my head. Point remains that while the damage and tank are good, they are battlecruiser good, and you might want BS good. OP just wants to make iskies, for that a BS is a faster and cheaper option, and it seems he already has a t3, which can be turned into something akin to the sac as well.

Veliria
Posted - 2010.08.06 07:36:00 - [12]
 

The only practical T3 that can really run missions is the Tengu and the Loki, although a drone Proteus may work as well.
The Legion can't really do it effectively because the laser setup has no drones or tracking bonuses, meaning a single scram frig will ruin your day very fast.
A drone Legion can only field 50m3 which isn't a lot of DPS.
HAM Legion still has no range bonus, leaving it in the same position as the Sacrilege.

HM Tengu with Fury missiles is the best T3 PvE ship, although it loses damage to EM weak enemies due to kinetic dmg only bonus.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2010.08.06 08:54:00 - [13]
 

Sac has no range, resulting in annoying loss of time to catch up to rats. same goes for T3 (Tengu exluded) so Get a BS. 0.0 ratting takes a BC or a cheap BS, if you can fly an ishtar that also works.

Darth Felin
Posted - 2010.08.06 10:35:00 - [14]
 

IMHO Sac is one of the best Amarr ratter. It can hit rats equally with any damage type so you can rat anywere. It is agile HAC so your mobility is very good and it is hard to catch you. It allow you to carebear in PVP fitting so you are always ready for combat and HAM range is non issue with MWD.

Veliria
Posted - 2010.08.06 10:37:00 - [15]
 

Sacrilege is a great ratting ship yes, but not a good mission boat due to distances in missions.
MWD in missions is still highly unreliable and constantly using it just to close range would blow up your sig, allowing everything to hit you while consuming a lot of cap.

Aesheera
Amarr
PWNED FACTOR HOLDINGS
Posted - 2010.08.06 10:41:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Aesheera on 06/08/2010 10:43:37
Originally by: seany1212

DPS lacking with a sac??? go onto eft, chose all level 5s tab, add 5 HAM 2's with rage ammo and 2 BCU's with 3 hobgob 2's and you have 549 dps right there, sac is one of the heaviest dps cruisers i know of, ive seen it **** over drake tanks in pvp and still tanks a stupid amount of damage.


Oh yes, how stupid of the community. Everybody has their missiles skills all at V.

As stated before, you'll gimp your tank going dual BCU.
And thats healthy being in someones face yes?

Granted the Sacrilege is awesome, but it requires some good amount of time to kill a well fitted Drake and before you know it, you've support on your backside.

That being said, its not meant for missions.
Range is the issue as many have said before me.
Spend the ISK you'd otherwise drop for a Sac on a Amarr BS.

Now if you want to rat in it, then you've got a good ship in your hands.

Exogene
Posted - 2010.08.06 10:47:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: loganonekenobi
My intentions with the sacrelidge is to do level 4 missions untill I have made enough isk to replace it and the equipment then go wonder off to 0.0 to rat and hunt for unsuspecting player (gota pay back the pirates!)


So you want to pay back the pirates by ratting and hunting for unsuspecting ppl? LaughingLaughingLaughing

Captain Blart
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.08.06 11:24:00 - [18]
 

Do lvl4 missions in a BS and for 0.0 solo, use either a fast warping ship like a frig or go directly to BS size boat and try to kill expansive ship before you go down. Soloing in a HAC in 0.0 will result in a fast trip back to station when u meet the first half competent gatecamp you come across

CAPSLOCKBROKE
Viziam
Posted - 2010.08.06 12:57:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: seany1212
Originally by: Zilberfrid
Yes, the sac will be able to tank the missions. But so will a drake or prophecy, perhaps a harbringer too The problem is outgoing DPS, that is lacking with a sac. The ship is an excellent choice when you play in amarr space and want to run missions not against the usual rats as well, due to omnitank and damage selection.

I think it might be best to use a BS in l4's, or a t3.


DPS lacking with a sac??? go onto eft, chose all level 5s tab, add 5 HAM 2's with rage ammo and 2 BCU's with 3 hobgob 2's and you have 549 dps right there, sac is one of the heaviest dps cruisers i know of, ive seen it **** over drake tanks in pvp and still tanks a stupid amount of damage.


Which is still far, far behind a solid Battleship for lvl 4 missioning. Also, the Sacrilege isn't even cheaper than a Battlehip. You could fly/fit a Dominix or Raven in less time and for less money. Or in the case of Amarr, an Apoc.

Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.08.06 14:04:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: loganonekenobi
My intentions with the sacrelidge is to do level 4 missions


It's worth getting but not for this.

Random Alt147782
Posted - 2010.08.06 14:10:00 - [21]
 

If you are intent on the Sac and want to mission for cash and then go lose it in 0.0, fit HM's and speed run L3's.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2010.08.06 14:42:00 - [22]
 

If you want a shiny black thing to shove phallic symbols into various orifices while being able to take it like a champ, well....

Erm.

Nevermind.

Sac can run L4s, as has been stated. It's actually fun if not nearly optimal. But the combination of an active armor tank, as dictated by the extremely short range, and the lack of BS-level damage does indeed slow you down.

But yeah, either an Apoc (ugly as sin, btw, in case you hadn't noticed) or an Abaddon would probably do you better for L4s. Then you can just keep buying Slicers (or something cheaper, sure, but Slicers are really quite nice) to see what happens in 0.0. Just keep your clone updated and you should be fine.

loganonekenobi
Posted - 2010.08.13 20:52:00 - [23]
 

Thank you for all the advise. You are all good eggs.... I did some fitting on the eve fitting tool and this is what i found. with dual armor rep and 1 cap booster i can tank (okay a level 5) 431 dps. thats without specificly tanking against anything. with tech 2 heavy assualt launchers but not t2 missles i can do 407 dps at 20.3k, 372dps at 30.4 k with javlin, 504 with rage at 18.2 k. May be i'm just a noobi but that looks okay to me. it goes with afterburner at 579 m/s. i even added a eccm to strenghten my sensor up to 29.4. this seems not so bad to me and a battle ship would be way more skill point time (which i have every intention of doing but for now...)
low slot
balistic controll 2
energized adaptive nano 2
medium armor repair 2
energized adaptive nano 2
medium armor repair 2
mid slots
10mn after burner 2
stasis web 2
medium cap booster 2 with 200 cap charge types stable @37%
eccm radar 2
high slots
heavy assualt missle launcher 2 x5 of course
high slot empty
rigs
auxilliery nano pump 1
warhead calefaction 1
maybe i'm not seeing what you see as far as not being a good mission ship. in fact i forgot to put any implants on this fit so i'm sure i could push it further. i have read it before that a t2 cruiser beats any battle ship so with only having to train the medium level equipment it seems like a good investment at least untill i can get a typhoon skilled up (which takes for ever). as far as pvp i think i'll just join a faction ware fare in a cheap frig and see what happens.


 

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