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Malholm Criskar
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:20:00 - [1]
 

After deliberating for a few days I've decided to cancel my subscription to both my accounts for the following reasons:
When I activated my accounts a few weeks ago I decided to be an entrepreneur, making iskies though the market, mining and manufacturing and whatever else I could fit in a day's play. Since then, I have encountered many things I do not like about Eve and weighted against the positives I feel the balance is tipped in the negative's favor. I will try to enumerate what these things are because writing this post is more fun than playing Eve.

1. .01 isk undercutting: I can see this was designed to reward the player that is most masochistic or that likes monotonous clicking and data entry. In all seriousness it's a way to keep the player playing by forcing them to be on and update their market orders. What should be done is have the game lower the price of items similar to eBay bidding and therefore reward intelligence and production competence or trade efficiency rather than little kids with no lives. I have begun to hate having to to this to keep my products selling.

2. Planetary industry: Again, having to log on at certain times during the day so I can have a click fest and keep my extractors going becomes a tedious and repetitive task that is NOT fun. I can do that for free.

3. Mining: Boring, slow and repetitive combined with having to log on early in the morning to mine the Hemorphite in Poinen before the guy with 4 mining alts gets to it.

4. Player grief: Hulkageddon. Although my Hulk was not blown up during the event because I went above and beyond Eve by reading internet sites, it was blown up days after by a suicide ganker. It set me back quite a bit at the time. I think events like these are disruptive, dirty and pointless. It's basically player harassment endorsed by CCP. It's only fun for those who have enough isk to waste, but not fun at all for those losing their expensive ships trying to make a living and playing by the rules.
Related: getting pushed around in sec space while mining by a ship with a microwarp drive. Mining in a Hulk is impossible if you have someone bored enough to be doing this to you.

5. Elusive combat: Unless I start a frig tournament, PvP is a lot of waiting for a short time where your frigate gets killed by 3 bigger ships. Numbers is the name of the game in PvP unless you consider PvP killing defenseless haulers and miners. I've done enough of it to decide that it is too slow for me. Sometimes I don't have 2 hours to waste and wait around for 5 minutes of fight.

6. Missions are boring: All missions are the same: fly to system X and blow up X number of ships and bring back item X. It is also slow and requires little thought other than making sure your tank can hold up. There is little to no player skill required.

7. Last but not least: These forums which I posted knowing that: a) 80% of people (read: kidz) who read this post are idiots who can't understand what they read let alone construct an intelligent response despite the fact of having all day to type it. b) I'll probably get flamed for reasons that don't exist by said idiots. You know who you are. (Don't bother - I won't be reading the replies anyway because I don't care what you have to say)

My efforts of playing the market mining and manufacturing were going quite well, I am over 1/2 billion now despite my losses and short days of play so I was successful doing what I set out to. However in the process I realize Eve is a game where you pay monthly and you wait around for skills to train so that one day you may fly ships X or do X. When X comes you want Y and so on... It never actually ends and I realize during this time I was doing boring, monotonous, repetitive tasks while dreaming of X, Y or whatever I wanted at the time but didn't have it. When I got X, then Y was better.

Writing this post was enjoyable for me, I hope it is for you too. Oh, and you can't have my stuff. Laughing

Xenon Barinade
Caldari
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:24:00 - [2]
 

Did you clear cache?

Max Cetera
Capital Researchs Inc.
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:27:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Max Cetera on 06/08/2010 05:28:36
TL;DR

Contract me your stuff please.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:31:00 - [4]
 

Hey man

If you have some time left on your sub, contact me in game. I do a lot of market selling and would love to help/collaborate. As to pvp, I dip into and out of low sec a lot, you're quitting anyways, so what do you have to lose? I typically die, so I can at least show you some action.

I can tell you I quit for awhile and came back, I would NOT have stayed without other people to play with, as eve is fracking dull unless you've got people, and then it may still be dull

Best,
Apollo

Tenoh
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:31:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Max Cetera
Edited by: Max Cetera on 06/08/2010 05:28:36
TL;DR

Contract me your stuff please.

FU sht btch,its a$holes like you that make this game suck.Hope CCP is happy with fkrs like you.was last time i payed ccp as well!

Kaptain Kruncher
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:33:00 - [6]
 

Gee, sorry you're leaving- you sound like you are really a fun guy to have in a corp.

I think the game you are looking for is called: Victim's Quest.

Rayban Aviator
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:37:00 - [7]
 

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Whiny McEmokid
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:40:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Malholm Criskar
Oh, and you can't have my stuff. Laughing


why not? is it because you are not actually quitting and this is one of those empty threat threads where you yell at CCP saying 'MAKE GAME LIKE I WANT OR ELSE LOSE MY MONIES FOREVAR!!' while continuing to play after anyway?

if you want to prove this isn't an empty threat contract all your stuff to me. i will confirm here that you are for real and thus give this thread credibility. Thank for your time.

Max Cetera
Capital Researchs Inc.
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:40:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Tenoh
Originally by: Max Cetera
Edited by: Max Cetera on 06/08/2010 05:28:36
TL;DR

Contract me your stuff please.

FU sht btch,its a$holes like you that make this game suck.Hope CCP is happy with fkrs like you.was last time i payed ccp as well!


Can I have your stuff as well ?

Xereyn
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:41:00 - [10]
 

it's fine, lern2play

I pretty much stopped thinking you had a point when you complained about 0.1 isk undercutting. Protip: Jita is not the only place to trade.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:43:00 - [11]
 

Heheh, there's something EPIC FAIL about someone who feels the need to post a long rant before unsubscribing. Who are you speaking to when you say this? CCP? Why would they give a damn about a non-player? LOL, what's the price of tea in China these days anyway?

I'd say that gets EPIC FAIL OF THE DAY LaughingLaughingLaughing

Wave Nagai
Caldari
The Mercurial Order
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:48:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Malholm Criskar


My efforts of playing the market mining and manufacturing were going quite well, I am over 1/2 billion now despite my losses and short days of play so I was successful doing what I set out to. However in the process I realize Eve is a game where you pay monthly and you wait around for skills to train so that one day you may fly ships X or do X. When X comes you want Y and so on... It never actually ends and I realize during this time I was doing boring, monotonous, repetitive tasks while dreaming of X, Y or whatever I wanted at the time but didn't have it. When I got X, then Y was better.


I had to laugh at this paragraph. About the same thing can be said for pretty much any MMO.

Anyway, you make some valid points, but there is also plenty of other stuff that EvE does have that you can't find in any other MMO. Obviously that stuff is not enough to convince you, so.... bye.

Kendar
Gallente
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.08.06 05:59:00 - [13]
 

Ever tried leaving empire? mabye join a 0.0 alliance for some new and exciting experiences?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:10:00 - [14]
 

Malholm,

I believe you are doing the right choice, the product for you looks like to be something like EvE but for single player.

Now, I won't criticize your opinions, because everyone got theirs and there's no "right way", I'll just point out why imho you are not "for" EvE:

- You think with a casual, single player mentality in a game where competition and forces coordination can make the difference.

- You can't accept the EvE sandbox concept, and this is quite a showstopper. EvE sandbox means that things can and WILL go against you. For people coming from other sandbox games (IE Istaria Wink) might have a good start in EvE as you can make everything yourself as well and solo a lot but EvE sandbox <> "sandbox". EvE sandbox is sandbox vs sandbox, adding a dimension that can and will play against you and your plans. Now, many EvE players love this setting, because they see it as a challenge, but it's understandable that it's not exactly the pacific and self centered sandbox other games offer.

- Another fatal take you have vs EvE is that you don't seem to go beyond what the general information fed you in a passive way.

0.01 isked too much? There are multiple effective counters for that.
PI is a clickfest? There are mitigating measures against that, from picking high yield systems (less extractors needed AND you can set them up for 96h cycles and get the same you get in hi sec) to using the great asset who are idiots. They will sell you all sorts of PI stuff you need at below production cost so you could just setup a PI manufacturing operation. No, it's not heresy, in fact it's years and years that most T2 manufacturers don't do reactions but buy the T2 equivalent of "P1" and make the components needed for T2 building.

In EvE, "sadly", you have to think, compete, win.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:17:00 - [15]
 

Points 1-4 can be mitigated or made null by moving to less busy systems.

I don't do .01 isk wars but my stuff sell nicely.

No idea on how eBay work but automating the sell orders so they go lower as you seem to advocate would cut trade profit to almost nothing.

eBay has hundred of thousand different items in different conditions and other factors that can influence price and quality, EVE items are sold all in the same conditions and the number is in relatively small.


Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:18:00 - [16]
 

My stuff, can I give it to you?

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.08.06 06:19:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tenoh
Originally by: Max Cetera
Edited by: Max Cetera on 06/08/2010 05:28:36
TL;DR

Contract me your stuff please.

FU sht btch,its a$holes like you that make this game suck.Hope CCP is happy with fkrs like you.was last time i payed ccp as well!


TL;DR

Contract me your stuff please.

CCP Applebabe

Posted - 2010.08.06 06:56:00 - [18]
 

Moved from EVE General Discussion.

Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
Posted - 2010.08.06 07:29:00 - [19]
 

lol high sec. Doin' it wrong.

Atomos Darksun
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.08.06 07:45:00 - [20]
 

Are you sure you aren't Leaving Eve?

alittlebirdy
Posted - 2010.08.06 08:43:00 - [21]
 

1) Sell somewhere else, ignore the .01 isk and wait for it to sell (works fine for me!

2) um, don't do PI? Haha run a POS and ***** then when it costs money for downtime in production.

3) Mine somewhere else, lol boring ya, some people like it... congratz on not

4) LoL it is called a tank, fit a tank and you will mess up most gankers also called *higher* sec... Blowing up hulks is playing by the rules, lol. Hype's mine very well too.

5) well if CCP fixs the lag, 0.0 has TONS of fights and numbers aint everything, most of my fights are 1v1 or me being out numbered. IMHO tons better than blobs… I’ve let people go I felt sorry for, haha ya my full tank hic is killing a BC solo… haha, I’ve seen a atron kill a ret, LOL with 3 frigs just watching from his corp (they all could have killed the atron it was 1 vs)

6) Missions go to lowsec, 0.0, and really what else do you want a mission to be? Again skill is needed I know of tons of people who lost ships left and right to missions (navy even).

7) LOL

Can I haz your ˝ bill (not stuff) I’d like to add it to my 10billz that makes 20-30% (when lucky 50%-100%) /month (ya I just started making isk =( )

ceaon
Posted - 2010.08.06 09:14:00 - [22]
 

1) i really believe that most ppl use a bot for that thing
2) /signed
3) all ppl want to scan for minerals not just warp on belts so yeah /signed
4) pew pew keep factory's busy so i dont agree there
5) u want box other ppl dont want to lose so if u want box search for box
6) /signed
7)LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.08.06 09:31:00 - [23]
 

Mal, on some points I agree with you (click fest market PvP, mining if you're not afk, lol PI) and others I don't or mostly don't (Hulkageddon is hilarious in reminding players that eve is not a single player game).

Eve's new player experience has improved a lot for new players in recent years but is still basically a masochist's game and CCP would be doing themselves a big favour if they bothered to explain some of the game and pvp mechanic to new players.

However, ss it is, there are still many players who ignore the one warning that CCP does give you in the tutorial: Don't fly what you can't afford to replace.

Also, you're right about beginner pvp. For new players pvp means undock and die until your skills are higher unless they go do something like RvB. As it is, in FW at the moment, it seems as if the median age is about 2 years currently.

CCP could really do everyone a favour by improving the education of pvpers in general.

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.08.06 10:01:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Malholm Criskar
(Don't bother - I won't be reading the replies anyway because I don't care what you have to say)


Why bother posting? why bother coming to a forum, post and then insist you don't care about what people have to say about your opinion? you know what you basically just did don't you? you just did the internet spaceship forum equivalent of a three year old stamping his feet and having a tantrum and then sticking his fingers in his years shouting "neener neener I cant hear you!"

Yes your that mature.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.08.06 10:53:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Malholm Criskar
1. .01 isk undercutting: I can see this was designed to reward the player that is most masochistic or that likes monotonous clicking and data entry. In all seriousness it's a way to keep the player playing by forcing them to be on and update their market orders. What should be done is have the game lower the price of items similar to eBay bidding and therefore reward intelligence and production competence or trade efficiency rather than little kids with no lives. I have begun to hate having to to this to keep my products selling.

If you do your business in very busy hubs, 0.01 ISK warrior presence is pretty much assured.
HOWEVER, that does not mean you won't be able to sell your products... it just means you have to be a bit more patient than usual.
I seldom ever bother adjusting any of my orders more than once a day, and many times, not more than once a week. Eventually, they do sell, and they sell at better markups. Overall, yes, you have more ISK tied up and the RoI is lower, but then again, your input was minimal.

Quote:
2. Planetary industry: Again, having to log on at certain times during the day so I can have a click fest and keep my extractors going becomes a tedious and repetitive task that is NOT fun. I can do that for free.
3. Mining: Boring, slow and repetitive combined with having to log on early in the morning to mine the Hemorphite in Poinen before the guy with 4 mining alts gets to it.
[...]
6. Missions are boring: All missions are the same: fly to system X and blow up X number of ships and bring back item X. It is also slow and requires little thought other than making sure your tank can hold up. There is little to no player skill required.

If you don't like grinding.... don't grind. Some people either actually like some of those forms of grinding, either because they're "easy on the attention span" or because they yield quite a bit of ISK.

Quote:
4. Player grief: Hulkageddon. [...snip...]

Quite a lot of players LOVE EVE for the fact such events are even possible in the first place.
And what do you know, some of the most carebearish of carebears love it too ! That's because they're smart carebears as opposed to grinding carebears.

Quote:
5. Elusive combat: Unless I start a frig tournament, PvP is a lot of waiting for a short time where your frigate gets killed by 3 bigger ships. Numbers is the name of the game in PvP unless you consider PvP killing defenseless haulers and miners. I've done enough of it to decide that it is too slow for me. Sometimes I don't have 2 hours to waste and wait around for 5 minutes of fight.

I sadly can't really disagree much. That's by design, vastly superior numbers beating superior skill and superior gear. It's actually again one of the things that makes EVE attractive, the fact you CAN compete with much older, much richer players just by banding together with others. If you want to solo-PvP, you will find it extremely difficult.
Although, you might want to try FW or RvB before you give up on it completely.

Quote:
My efforts of playing the market mining and manufacturing were going quite well, I am over 1/2 billion now despite my losses and short days of play so I was successful doing what I set out to. However in the process I realize Eve is a game where you pay monthly and you wait around for skills to train so that one day you may fly ships X or do X. When X comes you want Y and so on... It never actually ends and I realize during this time I was doing boring, monotonous, repetitive tasks while dreaming of X, Y or whatever I wanted at the time but didn't have it. When I got X, then Y was better.

So now you learned that EVE is mostly about the journey, not the destination... but instead of deciding to seize the day and have fun with what you have, you decided you would rather play a game that's all about the destination instead ? Or play no game at all ?
Meh, disappointed in you.

Yesh
Unjustified Ancients of MuMu
Posted - 2010.08.06 11:07:00 - [26]
 

Heyyyy I've cancelled my subs too!

But I will leave with a happy aura and fond memories of a game that is what you make it.

Got some stuff you can have.

Cya

Kehro Urgus
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.08.06 11:14:00 - [27]
 

Why does anyone bother to respond to emo/rage quit posters? Why do they bother to post about their leaving? It's pretty safe to say they will get no encouragement further than 'can i haz your stuff', ie. don't let the door hit you on the backside on the way out.

Truth is, no one will convince you to stay and no one really cares. I've bought several games over the years which sucked and can't stand and dumped without feeling the need to publicly gripe about it. Rolling Eyes

Mister Gimp
Posted - 2010.08.06 11:18:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Kehro Urgus
Why does anyone bother to respond to emo/rage quit posters?


Perhaps you can enlighten us?

Kehro Urgus
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.08.06 11:45:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Mister Gimp
Originally by: Kehro Urgus
Why does anyone bother to respond to emo/rage quit posters?


Perhaps you can enlighten us?

Why not ask the others?Razz

Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.08.06 11:46:00 - [30]
 

Suicide ganking sucks. I recently had to reimburse 25 hulks that corpmates chose to destroy. NOT HAPPY.

Hope you have fun wherever you end up.

I won't ask for your stuff like every other beggar in this thread.


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