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blankseplocked Account Canceled. Can't even get away from PVP in HiSec!
 
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Lady Ayeipsia
Posted - 2010.08.05 16:59:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Urgg Boolean
To the OP: may I suggest joining EvE University (a training corp) before you quit?

The thing that really disappoints me about this thread is that so many players want to kick the OP when he is down. So the guy got baited and acted like a stupid noob and is showing the frustration. That does not make him inferior, it means he lacks experience and/or game knowledge.

With the right kind of encouragement, players like the OP could become contributors to this game. Instead, many of our player base posting here choose to make sure he experiences maximum frustration thus potentiating his departure.

EvE is brutal. Learn to survive or die. Show no mercy!!! Cool. But do we have rub salt into their wounds when they feel like they want to quit? One less sub = that much less money to keep the game going.


The problem with this is, the OP admitted to an unwillingness to learn. I would agree if the OP came in with the same story but asked for help, advice, or how the mechanics of the game functioned. However....

Originally by: Baeran Draconis
Ok, I've had it with this game! I don't know anything about PVP because I don't WANT to know anything about it.


This, well, isn't a way to get anyone's help really. It's a blantant flag that says, "I want things my way, they are the only way possible, and if you don't like it, I'm taking my ball and going home".

I think the person's analogy about crossing the street is apt. Sure you may never want to drive, and hey, it's fine if you don't. However, if you want to travel around a city, you should at least learn the basics enough so you can cross the street without getting hit.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:01:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Shawna Gray on 05/08/2010 17:01:28
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Actually, I agree with you. CCP would have better customer retention rates if they would actually bother to make a tutorial explaining game mechanics to nubs.

Of course, CCP is more interested in listing to themselves talking to a mirror, and have come to the conclusion that shiney is more exiting than hard work.


Dont you guys ever get bored of posting the same whine in every thread?

The "new player experience" has actually recieved quite a few changes over the years. No amount of tutorials would save the OP and his kind though.

Khavi Kitamatsu
Posted - 2010.08.05 17:45:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 05/08/2010 17:01:28
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Actually, I agree with you. CCP would have better customer retention rates if they would actually bother to make a tutorial explaining game mechanics to nubs.

Of course, CCP is more interested in listing to themselves talking to a mirror, and have come to the conclusion that shiney is more exiting than hard work.


Dont you guys ever get bored of posting the same whine in every thread?

The "new player experience" has actually recieved quite a few changes over the years. No amount of tutorials would save the OP and his kind though.


Recently did a poll on a very well known website that caters to MMORPG players and you know what one of their biggest gripes with EVE was? The player community. Is it any wonder why when you have vitriolic comments slamming this poor guy; and he is just a new player trying to make it in the game. Another thing that came up was that EVE's so called new player experience is poorly implemented. When a player has to go outside a game to see what skills they should train in order to be proficient in a particular field of endeavor, be it salvager, miner, or trader, then there is something inherently wrong with that system. CCP needs to redo their new player experience from the ground up so that new players can get up, and running in the game within a shorter amount of time, and with clearly and concise paths to follow to obtain the players goal.

Yuki Kulotsuki
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:37:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu
Is it any wonder why when you have vitriolic comments slamming this poor guy; and he is just a new player trying to make it in the game.
6 months old is new? News to me.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:38:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu

Recently did a poll on a very well known website that caters to MMORPG players and you know what one of their biggest gripes with EVE was? The player community. Is it any wonder why when you have vitriolic comments slamming this poor guy; and he is just a new player trying to make it in the game.


He is not a new player he is a noob. Its the equivalent of playing wow and making a ragequit post because the game has elves and not enough spaceships.

Quote:

Another thing that came up was that EVE's so called new player experience is poorly implemented. When a player has to go outside a game to see what skills they should train in order to be proficient in a particular field of endeavor, be it salvager, miner, or trader, then there is something inherently wrong with that system.


Yes maybe they should make a ingame Evemon. But its not that hard to figure out without either.

Quote:

CCP needs to redo their new player experience from the ground up so that new players can get up, and running in the game within a shorter amount of time, and with clearly and concise paths to follow to obtain the players goal.


Why? Eve is not a game with a straight path.

Junko Sideswipe
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:40:00 - [96]
 

The amount of butthurt you can cause to carebear ******s gives me such a feeling of joy that I can't help but feel twinges of pleasure in my lower regions. This is why I get ecstatic about CCP adding new features to the game and ignoring bugs, because it brings in new idiots like this guy and drives the all the e-honor no-fun-allowed scumbags to unsubscribe their accounts, keeping them out of my way. Keep the morons flooding in CCP, and I will never stop playing this game.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

CCP Adida


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:43:00 - [97]
 

Moved from general discussion

el Sabor
Posted - 2010.08.05 18:45:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Baeran Draconis

A short time ago I was running a mission in a high security area, minding my own business and salvaging my wrecks when I suddenly noticed a red flashing ship and reflexivly lock target and attack, only to realize its another player who it turned out had purposely scanned me down to my mission area and looted one of my wrecks which turned them "red" to me, which I knew nothing about before as, mentioned already, I know nothing about PVP (or its tactics) and don't want to know.


It's not about knowing how to PvP. It's about know the difference between a player and a NPC on the overview. Look at it this way; you won't make the mistake again. Most of us have made similar mistakes early on.

Cybrin Scorpius
Posted - 2010.08.05 19:47:00 - [99]
 

The danger of EVE makes it quite interesting and exciting. The trick is to get killed a whole bunch of times then you realize getting killed doesn't matter, it's just a game and have fun with it.

Adacia Calla
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.08.05 20:13:00 - [100]
 

T3 + ECCMs = no one can scan for you.

GL with Hello Kitty Online though.

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.05 21:18:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Dr Reinhold on 05/08/2010 21:23:26
For as much as the OP doesn't deserve to play a game as cool and as brutal as EVE, his detractors might do well to realize that change will come. Carebears happen, and they will only increase in number as that is really the only direction that the EVE playerbase can realistically grow. CCP doesn't exist to maintain the game in a state that caters to your thirst for tears. They will either find a way to expand subscription numbers without hurting the PvP too much or they will sellout to a big company like EA who will dictate changes from on high without any understanding of EVE culture. You thing CCP is out of touch? You have not seen the lost of your favorite game yet to the "destroyer of worlds."

Seriously, long term, I would write off being able to significantly PvP in hisec space. Our only hope is that they add something like Medium Sec space, make it what hisec is now and then restrict the definition of hisec to something like .8-1.0 systems. At which point hisec will likely become completely safe to the point of being sterile with soccer moms wandering around armed with anti-bacterial handwipes and neosporin, taking care of ever booboo that happens.

Incarna is the tip of the PvE iceberg. I expect all of Incarna to be a nice safe PvE based space game, but don't think for a minute that they will forever reserve all of flying spaceships to PvP only. The carebears will get some kind of space to fly around in and pretend they are cool. And when they come up to a gate that leads to PvPland they will get a big red warning the size of Rhode Island on their screen telling them to turn back. Of course there will be those who ignore it, get blow'd up and will come back here to complain and all will make fun of them too. For there is nothing new under the sun... any of them. But don't doubt that the change will come.

Our only hope is that instead of dumbing down the entire game, CCP will instead only make a few regions that are safe for the "young civilian short transport" pilots.

Pray. Pray like your universe depends on it.

Undertow Latheus
Posted - 2010.08.05 21:25:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: CCP Adida
Moved from general discussion


Rofl, account cancellation threads are now being moved to OOPE? derp.

Also, adding to all the, "Dont shoot stuff just cause its red, htfu, eve is full of risk, etc etc"

Krecian
Gallente
Essence of Decay
Black Cartel.
Posted - 2010.08.05 21:43:00 - [103]
 

Yah know, I joined this game years ago, before wormholes and all that. And I remember clear as day all the warning dialog boxes that pop up every time I was about to do something that would flag me. Hell, I remember being scared ****less to leave the newbie system because of the dialog box that warned me that certain protections would be lifted.

The game holds your hand plenty. And anybody with half a mind doesn't have to search far for the particulars. Hell, you can learn about silly mistakes if you just watch local. I'm generally pretty tolerant of newbies. But it's hard to drum up any sympathy for the OP for the following reasons.

1) He couldn't tell the difference between an NPC and a flashing red player. The UI feedback is very obvious.
2) The game gives you plenty of warning when your new whenever you flag yourself.
3) He admitted flatout that he refused to learn anything about PvP in a game where you can be attacked anywhere.


Far as I'm concerned, good riddance. If you don't want to PvP, that's fine by me. But at least have the smarts to acknowledge that you can be attacked anywhere and arm yourself with the knowledge necessary to prevent yourself from losing everything. This guy evidently didn't want to do that.

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2010.08.05 21:44:00 - [104]
 

Its the main problem with eve, I think its either going to change or the game will fail. High-sec for mining and industry, low-sec and null-sec for pvp, thats my opinion.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.08.05 21:49:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 05/08/2010 21:49:47
Originally by: Dr Reinhold
Incarna is the tip of the PvE iceberg. I expect all of Incarna to be a nice safe PvE based space game, but don't think for a minute that they will forever reserve all of flying spaceships to PvP only.
Seeing as how Incarna is not a game — it's an expansion to eve; how the PvP content has already been discussed; how it's certainly never been described as safe; and how adding PvE to it would add a whole lot of work for very little profit…

…adjust your expectations. Laughing
Quote:
The carebears will get some kind of space to fly around in and pretend they are cool.
They already have. Now, as it happens, non-PvP space will never have anything cool inside it by very design — it simply can't because nothing of any use comes out of non-PvP activities in EVE.
Quote:
Pray. Pray like your universe depends on it.
No need. Removing all-encompassing PvP from EVE removes the underlying mechanics of the game — it will cease to exist.
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
Its the main problem with eve, I think its either going to change or the game will fail. High-sec for mining and industry, low-sec and null-sec for pvp, thats my opinion.
It can't. Doing that would destroy the market, and thus the entire game.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.05 21:49:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Dr Reinhold
Edited by: Dr Reinhold on 05/08/2010 21:23:26
For as much as the OP doesn't deserve to play a game as cool and as brutal as EVE, his detractors might do well to realize that change will come.


Why? They could have done so ages ago but have kept on beeing different and grown from it. There are a ton of PVE grinding games already that isnt as successfull. EVE without pvp is just missions online and honestly that is a game that truly sucks.

Quote:

Carebears happen, and they will only increase in number as that is really the only direction that the EVE playerbase can realistically grow.



Why? Its a market thats already full of games.

Quote:
They will either find a way to expand subscription numbers without hurting the PvP too much or they will sellout to a big company like EA who will dictate changes from on high without any understanding of EVE culture.


Ah the old doomsday prophet. If EA is that stupid I dont care. EVE is nothing without pvp.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.05 21:56:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Undertow Latheus
Originally by: CCP Adida
Moved from general discussion


Rofl, account cancellation threads are now being moved to OOPE? derp.




Um, they have been for years.

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.05 22:03:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Joe Phoenix
Its the main problem with eve, I think its either going to change or the game will fail. High-sec for mining and industry, low-sec and null-sec for pvp, thats my opinion.


EVE will not fail if they don't change anything. It has run fine for years. But it won't grow either and people don't seem to get that stagnation is really not an option for a real world business.

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2010.08.05 22:32:00 - [109]
 

It works fine for people who like to fight, but for the people who don't want to fight the so called "carebears", its not really working.

So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.08.05 22:34:00 - [110]
 

This ****ing thread goes to 4 pages but my thread with hot pictures of Hermione dies after like 5 posts? ****ing nerds.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.05 22:37:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Joe Phoenix
It works fine for people who like to fight, but for the people who don't want to fight the so called "carebears", its not really working.


What you are saying is that you dont really want to play EVE, but another spaceship game.

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.05 22:41:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 05/08/2010 21:49:47
Seeing as how Incarna is not a game — it's an expansion to eve; how the PvP content has already been discussed; how it's certainly never been described as safe; and how adding PvE to it would add a whole lot of work for very little profit…

…adjust your expectations. Laughing


Listen to what you are saying. It is a expansion that will add no gaming experience to the game? If there is little profit to be had in a PvE oriented Incarna then how much less will there be in a glorified chat room? Why do you think they put it off for years? Probably because nobody had come up with a reasonable justification for it until recently. It may start out as simple in the first iteration but don't bet that it will be nothing but a chat room with avatars. They are not making that much money off the RP crowd. If you conception of what Incarna is going to be is really that boring then perhaps you should consider the possibility that it is your expectation that is off.

Quote:
They already have. Now, as it happens, non-PvP space will never have anything cool inside it by very design — it simply can't because nothing of any use comes out of non-PvP activities in EVE.


And yet, seemingly against all odds, an enormous number of carebears force themselves to enjoy hours upon hours of uncool and useless activities.

How can you honestly claim that nothing useful comes from PvE? You are including Ratting and Missioning in your definition of PvE right? That is after all how most people finance their PvP.

You need to develop the ability to see the world from outside yourself. You may not find any value in PvE portions of the game. Perhaps you see them as no more than a necessary evil that slows you from getting to PvP. Not everyone is like that. Some people like doing the things you find boring. It is a sandbox after all and not everyone is you.

Quote:
No need. Removing all-encompassing PvP from EVE removes the underlying mechanics of the game — it will cease to exist.


I think you greatly overstate the possibility. "If we can't kill anyone anywhere all the time the world will end!" Probably not. You can't gank the guy who is docked and yet the game continues on. I wouldn't worry about loosing the ability to gank anywhere any time. Even L2 has that same ability. I just expect that it will carry graver penalties and some of the more common tricks for luring the unsuspecting will get closed up. And even then, only in the highest security systems.

Originally by: Joe Phoenix
Its the main problem with eve, I think its either going to change or the game will fail. High-sec for mining and industry, low-sec and null-sec for pvp, thats my opinion.
It can't. Doing that would destroy the market, and thus the entire game.


More hyperbole. The world is not going to end. Chill. Breath. Take a valium. First, high sec will still have its dangers, those dangers just might not be in the form of players. And allowing for safe industrial and marketing areas will hardly destroy the economy. Civilizations institute law and order for the very purpose of encouraging economy and growth. EVE is actually very artificially dangerous. No real world industrial power would put up with that much destruction and crime in its commercial and industrial areas. At least not during business hours.

If they made hisec space completely safe it would probably greatly improve the enconomy. I wouldn't worry about that. But it would also make for a more boring game so don't bet on completely safe. Safer, perhaps safe from PvP, but not 100% safe.

Isha Subula
Minmatar
Viscosity
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.08.05 22:42:00 - [113]
 

Carebears are a part of eve. That being said. So is PVP. The warning when you went to fire your weapons should have been a clue. You will be back. And you will probably be a PVP'er when you return

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.05 22:54:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Shawna Gray on 05/08/2010 22:55:54
Originally by: Dr Reinhold
Civilizations institute law and order for the very purpose of encouraging economy and growth.


Real world comparisons are generally stupid in any game.
In the real world stuff break, or gets used up in some way so you have to buy more stuff. Most stuff are definetly not built to last as they need you to buy stuff again. In eve stuff has unlimited lifespan unless some other player destroys it. PVP is the driving force of the market in EVE. Without it the game is nothing but missions online. That would even made wow seem like a brilliant and original game.

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.05 22:56:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
It works fine for people who like to fight, but for the people who don't want to fight the so called "carebears", its not really working.


What you are saying is that you dont really want to play EVE, but another spaceship game.


First there isn't another spaceship game out there with the same depth of economic simulation. Those who like building things will come here and do their best.

Second, you need to come to grips with the idea that EVE is more than JUST PvP. Yes, there is PvP everywhere and you can't avoid it but that is not the same as EVE being nothing but PvP.

Third, EVE is not a charity for Player Killers. If they can make more money off of carebears then they will, sooner or later. I simply suggest that this is in fact the case and that they realize that. However, I don't believe that it involves and either or choice. Economics is not a zero sum game. There will be both.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.05 23:02:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Dr Reinhold

First there isn't another spaceship game out there with the same depth of economic simulation. Those who like building things will come here and do their best.

Yes you can thank the pvp centric nature of EVE for that.

Quote:

Second, you need to come to grips with the idea that EVE is more than JUST PvP. Yes, there is PvP everywhere and you can't avoid it but that is not the same as EVE being nothing but PvP.


Everything except missions is pvp. The rest is pointless without pvp.

Quote:

Third, EVE is not a charity for Player Killers. If they can make more money off of carebears then they will, sooner or later. I simply suggest that this is in fact the case and that they realize that. However, I don't believe that it involves and either or choice. Economics is not a zero sum game. There will be both.


You simply dont understand the Game mechanics. A PVE server of EVE would be a massive failure. CCP might be getting a lot of **** lately but they are not that stupid. Craploads of mmos have been made to lure in the "vast" numbers of carebears but they all fail. EVE dont.

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.05 23:10:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 05/08/2010 22:55:54
Originally by: Dr Reinhold
Civilizations institute law and order for the very purpose of encouraging economy and growth.


Real world comparisons are generally stupid in any game.
In the real world stuff break, or gets used up in some way so you have to buy more stuff. Most stuff are definetly not built to last as they need you to buy stuff again. In eve stuff has unlimited lifespan unless some other player destroys it. PVP is the driving force of the market in EVE. Without it the game is nothing but missions online. That would even made wow seem like a brilliant and original game.


PvP losses are indeed the main driver of the economy. However that doesn't mean safe regions are economically insulated from that driver. Some people would be happy to help supply that need from a safe distance in exchange for higher overhead and lower profits.

Also, other drivers could be put in place to help. Wear and tear could be implimented. Additional taxes or tariffs would likely pop up in the safer regions. Safety costs money after all.

Real world comparisons are not always accurate when compared to a game but they are also not always inaccurate just because it is a game. EVEs economy is pretty significant and complex. Chances are strong that it is effected by similar factors.

Dr Reinhold
Posted - 2010.08.05 23:16:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray

You simply dont understand the Game mechanics. A PVE server of EVE would be a massive failure. CCP might be getting a lot of **** lately but they are not that stupid. Craploads of mmos have been made to lure in the "vast" numbers of carebears but they all fail. EVE dont.


At what point did I suggest a PvE server?

And I am not so sure you can claim WoW to be a failure by any credible metric. A craptastic quest grind but not a failure.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.08.05 23:50:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 05/08/2010 23:51:57
Originally by: Dr Reinhold
Listen to what you are saying. It is a expansion that will add no gaming experience to the game?
Where do you get that from?
Quote:
If there is little profit to be had in a PvE oriented Incarna then how much less will there be in a glorified chat room?
Who cares. There's profit to be had from the PvP orientation of Incarna.
Quote:
Why do you think they put it off for years?
Because the WoD team has been slacking off, tbh…
Quote:
Probably because nobody had come up with a reasonable justification for it until recently.
They had plenty of justification for it two years ago.
Quote:
If you conception of what Incarna is going to be is really that boring
Where do you get that from?
Quote:
And yet, seemingly against all odds, an enormous number of carebears force themselves to enjoy hours upon hours of uncool and useless activities.
Yes, but the stuff they do relies 100% on things that can only ever come as a product of PvP.
Quote:
How can you honestly claim that nothing useful comes from PvE? You are including Ratting and Missioning in your definition of PvE right? That is after all how most people finance their PvP.
Missioning, yes. Ratting no. Because having access to it relies on PvP, and getting those profits before someone else does is PvP. Missions are indeed the only essentially PvE activity in the game, and that's one of the main problems with them.
Quote:
You need to develop the ability to see the world from outside yourself. You may not find any value in PvE portions of the game. Perhaps you see them as no more than a necessary evil that slows you from getting to PvP.
…again, where do you get that from? This is the third time you completely read me wrong. Laughing
Quote:
I think you greatly overstate the possibility. "If we can't kill anyone anywhere all the time the world will end!" Probably not.
That's just it: PvP in EVE goes so far beyond just shooting people, it's not even funny. It suffuses every last activity you can engage in (except mission running… and even then there are PvP parts to it that the carebears want expunged for no adequate reason).
Quote:
More hyperbole. The world is not going to end. Chill. Breath. Take a valium. First, high sec will still have its dangers, those dangers just might not be in the form of players. And allowing for safe industrial and marketing areas will hardly destroy the economy.
Vast overproduction. Reduced demand (vastly reduced, even, for some high-end items). Complete inability for new entities to find a place in the market (can't remove the competition). Complete inability for interdiction of logistics. Nearly all of the balancing mechanics wiped out. Oh, it would wreck things to no end all right.
Quote:
Civilizations institute law and order for the very purpose of encouraging economy and growth.
Irrelevant.

Kate Mosh
Posted - 2010.08.05 23:56:00 - [120]
 



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