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Winters Chill
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.08.03 10:41:00 - [91]
 

Looks the same to me.

As for the gap between the developers and players, its not changed. I've seen blogs and posts by developers that reflect an arrogance in the development process. However, that being said, CCP is a business not a government, dangerous things start to happen when you confuse the two (for both parties)


000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2010.08.03 11:18:00 - [92]
 

For all those who think eve is dying... there is no real reason why u can't giv me all ur stuffz before it happens.

I say... DONATE TO ME NOW!!! Very Happy

Tressin Khiyne
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2010.08.03 11:39:00 - [93]
 

'04 player here.

Business as usual from my perspective. Only a few years ago CCP announced they would nerf Carriers... anyone remember that? Well this is a good example of the players pushing back - and CCP listened in this case. So when the bees get all riled up today, they have more energy from previous victories I think, this might make it seem more serious to people, but in all truth, these things have been going on for years.

putopugno
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.03 11:52:00 - [94]
 

Its a bunch of people not worth anyone's time making a lot of noise. They could do something constructive but they will always come up with the line of "why should I?".

They will also never go away. You should see the WoW forums its practically the same. **** it though let them have the forums. I will just have to play EvE and have fun.

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2010.08.03 11:55:00 - [95]
 

The sky has always been falling, this is nothing new.

ThaMa Gebir
Gallente
SUECHTLER Inc.
Saints Amongst Sinners
Posted - 2010.08.03 12:02:00 - [96]
 

Early '05 player here.

I started playing and it was Exodus, I didn't know much about the game at the time, but I did enjoy it.
Then Cold War hit. That was nasty. The patch was about a day overdue in patching (iirc).
Then RMR hit, with the bloodlines etc. WOW. That was cool.
Then a bunch of patches with cool stuff happening and being fixed. Then trinity.
What awesome graphics... Great stuff. (Boot ini kind ****ed off a lot of people however LOL, great job CCP. Only you can screw something up so thoroughly).

Then Apocryppha, Great patch, Unexpectedly good infact. Loads of stuff worked and worked well... Scarily well tbh.

Then dominion, oops, and tyranis. Bigger OOPS.

Now this.

Well I agree it is harsh all of this with 18 months etc, I will be sticking around (as per my promise years ago, (I may not have been here for the start, but I sure as hell will be here at the end...)). But I doubt I will trust 100% anything CCP says anymore.

Too much has been lost in faith at this time, I hope Incarna and DUST are really Freaking special for them to do this...

My opinion only.

Nonetheless I even though I am not voting I will say well done for getting so far CCP. You deserved it (ambiguous on purpose).

Desmond Williams
Posted - 2010.08.03 12:09:00 - [97]
 

CCPs stand on bugs:
we will get right on fixing them after we implement this new urgently needed eve video chat feature.

ZeroG
Posted - 2010.08.03 12:16:00 - [98]
 

There are "the sky is falling" posts on every mmo regularly. However the latest glut of posts about the genuinely broken parts of this game (fleet lag etc) are quite valid and must be addressed. Who knows if they will be.....

Mihali
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.03 12:23:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Mihali on 03/08/2010 12:31:38
Originally by: putopugno
Its a bunch of people not worth anyone's time making a lot of noise. They could do something constructive but they will always come up with the line of "why should I?".

They will also never go away. You should see the WoW forums its practically the same. **** it though let them have the forums. I will just have to play EvE and have fun.


I can post with alts too.

Anyone living in 0.0 has been effected since the Dominion expansion. This is not just the vocal minority whining about what they want. There is concern among the non-vocal majority about performance of game quality, unfinished and/or poor game features and just a lack of concern of keeping loyal customers.

When people from different sides of the political fence can agree that something is wrong, you best check up on it. Vets have established social networks within & outside of game. There is concern among us vets(main is '06), that the core game we have played for years, is not given the attention it should be getting. This is a game about spaceships & pew pew after all.

There are little rays of hope that some devs(CCP Eris, I love you)are trying to address concerns, but I believe that inside CCP, there lies several camps of philosophy, where the game & the company should be going. Hopefully CCP realize, as a whole, that the core game is what keeps us here and do everything within their power to continue to improve what we so love.


Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2010.08.03 12:32:00 - [100]
 

Previous bouts of forum rage, pardoning the t20 incident, have been about mechanical issues for the most part. This time it's legitimate concern about CCP's direction and the future of the game itself. Quite a difference, and also important ...

Uncle Fester
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.08.03 12:35:00 - [101]
 

I started playing a few weeks after Eve was released a long 7 years ago, back then Eve was rough as f***, but there were only ever a maximum of say 5k players at peak times. Even so it was and still is the only game of its kind, one world for us all to play in.

As the player base got larger and larger CCP had to change the game to suit what the players were doing, the alliance system was something CCP never even considered, it was created simply to cater for how the players were playing, they began to blob just weeks into release.

The game servers from the very begining were under a load CCP had not considered, and as such they began to develop the game around what the players were doing.This has been a trend that carries on today.

The players do love this game dispite all the 'sky is falling' threads,there will always be players that are unhappy with something, but lately things do seam alot worse than any other time ive seen.

I personaly have had to change my gameplay style(no lag or blobs in wh space:)), 7years of life means i dont have the time needed to play with 0.0 alliances, nor do i have the patients needed to sit at tower sieges for hours and hours, and that is if the game is working, which clearly after dominion it doesnt.

I think one of the main problems eve and its players face is the concept of eve is way beyond what current technology can handle, and the way we the players want to play is totally limited and held back by technology, we want bigger and bigger fights and CCP want more and more subscribers, without the technology able to cope with what we both want this situation will only continue.

ViolenTUK
Gallente
Demolition Men
Posted - 2010.08.03 12:35:00 - [102]
 

I think the issue of lag is something that affects everyone so you have everyone united with their opinion about it. Quite rightly so. I dont think its just that. I feel that despite CCP introducing more features they are also nerfing and trimming away many of the old features. I think that many players have been around long enough to have been hit by the nerf bat. Thats the problem the nerf bat. Its CCPs whole attitude towards addressing an issue, any issue. If CCP sees an imbalance where a group of players are earning more than another group then what they will do is take away from the group that has more. What they should be doing is giving to the players that dont have enough. If you take anything from anyone they will be hurt. In 2006 when I started people did say What going to be hit with the nerf bat? Im not denying that but it wasnt a common phrase. CCP needs to revaluate their whole procedure for correcting a problem. The phrase you want players to hear is What is next to be buffed?

SemiCharmed
Clans of the Sanctums
Posted - 2010.08.03 12:39:00 - [103]
 

Since EVE launch there was always allot of whining and complaining, but that was mainly about bugs.

These days there is someone complaining just about everything. In my views its due to eve attracting more and more people, mainly the younger generation who are inputting there views on what should be changed and CCP are stupidly listening to them and losing focus on what there true goals are. However, at these times, CCP has set out a list of patches and updates that, separately, everyone is complaining about, but in a whole (when they are all released) majority will be happy for.

I'm trusting CCP will pull through and not listen to the masses of re***ds that outnumber the genuine players who's input should be listened too to make eve, unique and on the right path. Which generally means its not in the simple list like World of Warcraft.

Semi

Ford Mersombre
Posted - 2010.08.03 12:46:00 - [104]
 

All games have it all the time. You just can't make everyone happy all the time and there are always hundreds of players dying to line up and be forum warriors.

Jhannaea Zenakon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.08.03 13:09:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Bad Princess
Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance?

My guess is the former............




It happen when we had 3k players online, it happen when its 5k players online and now its happening when we got 40k players online and it will continue when we have 60k players online.

Zerrov
Posted - 2010.08.03 13:15:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Bad Princess
Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance?

My guess is the former............





Frankly, most of the negativity started with the Goons. I am not trolling either. The community took on a negative tone. That being said, goons have since be reduced to northern carebears and CCP haven't been helping their own case much lately.

Pherusa Plumosa
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.08.03 13:23:00 - [107]
 

it's different this time, because people do not just threaten to quit, they really quit EVE. and there are several variations. A bunch of people around me quit (at least partially), which I never experienced before.
- The most common one: cancel subscriptions on toon-accounts, but keep the main alive to skill and keep in touch with friends you made in Eve
- stop selling plexes
- go into hibernation mode, keep your stuff. ("I'm back in 18 months")
- give away all your stuff and characters. Personally, I don't know anyone who did this. maybe there are a few out on forums giving away their stuff.

This time, it does not feel like rage. It is resignation. CCP took away peoples hope. ofc, lag is an issue, but it's not only lag. For example me and lots of other people were hoping for a 0.0 overhaul, which would add more variety and dynamic into 0.0 warfare. Instead we got buggy dominion-sov-mechanics which is worser blob-fest and system camping than pos-grind. I was always hoping, CCP would "iterate" dominion sov-mechanics in the near future. But to hear, that this and many other broken core-game mechanics have been put into backlog for 18 months... well, hard to believe in CCP.

Razzor Death
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.03 13:33:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Well I just try to do my bit and post a bit more often and give my personal 2 cents on things Smile Don't know if it will do anything or not but I do know I posted a lot less than I used to which is a shame.

I blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all. Wink


god damn, more posts like this please.

+10


Dragon Greg
Posted - 2010.08.03 14:11:00 - [109]
 

Quote:
blame casual games for this btw. They will be the end of us all.


Someone better tell Torfi and Noah Cool


Foundation Vox
Posted - 2010.08.03 14:38:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Orion Sky
It seems like the more CCP listens to the CSM the more disconected from the player base they get. Time to put away the personal agendas CSM and actually do your job for once.

I mean seriously, CCP raves about how they are into the CSM and this and that but ffs, if this is the result, please disband the CSM and just listen to the players again. We have the forums. all the tools are there so cut out the people that claim they represent the player base and get back in tune with the real players.


About time someone said it. The CSM had/has a personal agenda? Of course they do. Do they represent the majority of players? The majority would have had to vote.

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2010.08.03 15:41:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Mid-2005 start here, I've played constantly ever since.

In my opinion, whining is cyclical. There has never been a time without whining, but it peaks from time to time. Instances I can remember it getting loud:

- RMR
- T20
- Nos nerf
- Nano nerf
- Zulu's carrier ideas



Nozh supercarrier balancing was pretty much there IMHO, at least the uproar was so bad than the most retarded part was killed in the egg and they didn't get to dock... But CCP was still kinda listening to the community at the time.

Not the case anymore under overlord Zulu

Well, less than a week to go for me. I guess those 5 days free resub will be convenient to check from time to time that the game indeed didn't get better...

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
Posted - 2010.08.03 16:18:00 - [112]
 

I think the developers have been building up players expectation by overemphasis of what their expansions will deliver and when those expectations are not met, players believe that CCP is lying.

CCP might be deluding themselves of what their expansions can deliver and also often lack foresight of what the consequences of their creations are in the future (i.e supercapital proliferation). They sometimes seem to lack the knowledge of what their playerbase can achieve.

I still have some faith, as it IS CCP that created EvE Online in the first place. In regards to EvE they seem to be resting on their laurels. Really something like Incarna & DUST should never have been revealed to the playerbase, until its almost completed and ready for implementation otherwise that just leads to false hope.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.08.03 16:55:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Bad Princess
Is all of this "Eve is dying", "Devs Suck", "Sky is falling" whinee garp something that happens cyclically, or is all of this noise something that has real substance?


Well I started in 2003 when the server was around 5000 people and the game was pretty rough and ready. Every week seemed to have some new drama, every patch had calls for "rollbacks", there was plenty of drama with GM actions and interventions (mine field removal, fleet teleports and the Jovian mining laser scandal etc etc) but the thing was there was a real sense that the developers were playing the game too and it was a process of collaborative developent alongside the player base. Things got fixed and fast. The game improved massively over the course of a couple of years and the scope with it. Of course nothing was perfect, I had my own feud with the old t20 era community manager that lasted years but in the end it got resolved. Drama and bugs and exploits and fiascos all seemed to add intrigue and excitement to the game because the developers were involved and were taking us along on their journey to make the best dark science fiction universe where brutality and betrayal were commonplace and the unwary could lose anything to a bad decision or simply bad luck.

I think we did hit a similar low point before Apocyrapha though - then it became apparent the old developers were leaving for the states and the Vampire game and Eve had six months of not much attention and it was a bit of a shock to the system and during the first CSM (on which I served) we were told that Eve was returning to its roots and most of the development talent was coming back to work on the super expansion to come (and it paid off) apocrypha was superb and remains my favourite expansion ever.

But after that I think things have slipped again. The vision desire for Eve the all-encompassing space opera simulator has exclipsed the perception that promises must be kept and expansions should be iterated until all the announced features are implemented. Faction warfare, dominion, tech3 these are orphaned features now and there is a lot of unhappiness. And ironically the CSM function could have been used by CCP to warn them about this - certainly the players have been very good about using the assembly hall to highlight issues and preferences and the only tragedy of the CSM project is how little CCP have ever seemed to listen to it.

Whats unique about this summers Eve doldrums is just how bleak a future with no substantive development on unfinished and much loved features will look for 18 months. At the moment the state of the game is not too good. I'm not a 0.0 blobfest player and I never really liked the huge 500 a side sovereignty fights - but I do like roaming small gang pvp and even that is not currently possible in 0.0 due to horrible lag, session-bugs, traffic control and generally horrible performance. Dominion hasn't really worked to make the 0.0 game more dynamic, its just let to increased blobbing (and terrible lag). PI is frankly unfinished pre beta ish with no real interactions between players on the planets (and nothing like the fanfest presentations promised us).

Faction warfare could be utterly brilliant if it had a developer team working on it mind. Its a massive missed opportunity.

But we keep coming back to the 18 months thing. If Eve had launched with a single patch and the devs telling us (don't worry about bugs and unfinished features we'll start working in 18 months) then it would have crashed and burned and sunk without trace. The game flourished and survived because it had constant care and attention and a lot of continuous work. Now seven years on the code base still needs care and attention because nothing lasts forever. And it needs work now, not in 18 months time. Incarna and Dust might be pretty, but they are nothing if the core game is abandoned.

Still I just resubbed my accounts - mostly because Eris is still working for CCP :)

Soup'Chef
Posted - 2010.08.03 21:27:00 - [114]
 

Posting with an alt because the main account has run out (9 days left on this one).

Don't particularly care if EVE is dying or not - it just seems that my dreams of what EVE could be and CCPs have drifted apart quite a bit in the past few years. That's not really news in itself, but the last CSM minutes and CCPs public reaction have made it impossible to ignore.

Additionally, the part of the game that has kept me going for a long time (fleet engagements) hasn't been working properly for quite a while. So why would I want to continue paying for this? And this time around, it doesn't just seem to be the end of the road for me.

Xtreem
Gallente
The Collective
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.08.03 21:40:00 - [115]
 

to confirm .. again eve has always had omg eve sucks etc threads, since back in the day!

although saying that.. eve is at it least stable as of now when compaired to user base!

5k on a sunday was massive when i was a newbie, but the game was massivly playable on the tech of the eve cluster of that time, its only in 2010 the servers have not been able to keep up with the scale (although they did in 2009 with the same numbers hence so many people posting about it, it effectivly HAS actually got worse this time)

Mr M
Posted - 2010.08.03 22:47:00 - [116]
 

What some people seems to forget is that all the people over at CCP also has a job to do. They can't spend all their hours on poding noobs who by accident stumble out into low sec. (I'm looking at you TomB.) And that job may not always be what you really like like to do. Every pvp alliance out there has a bunch of guys mining away. Maybe not because they want to, but because the alliance needs the minerals and the money to be able to build new ships and expand.

I truly believe Incarna, or to be exact the graphic engine behind it, is CCP's mining. They need it to diversify and increase their market share and be able to expand faster. But in the end that effort will be good for Eve and it's players.

Raneru
Combat and Recon
Posted - 2010.08.03 22:54:00 - [117]
 

/me puts on rose tinted glasses Cool

Ah yes the good olds days. You see kids, back then the battleship was the king of the skies and if we wanted to move stuff from empire into 0.0 you got a hauler and braved the gatecamps, none of this carrier and jump freighter nonsense.

A "big" fleet fight was 100 people in system and we fought like real men and flew 40 jumps to get to our destination with sniper BS.

The people who occupied 0.0 actually fought for their space and didn't rent it out or overload the system with numbers to get them.

Mining was actually worth doing as there weren't hordes of afk hulk bringing prices down.

/me takes glasses off

Torps that could kill frigs in a single hit? No jump cloning? Rubbish (or no) stealth bombers? Hub systems overloaded with a few hundred people?

I'll stick to todays eve Wink

Xiang Jiao
Posted - 2010.08.03 23:56:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
It's called "Internet Negativity Syndrome".

The very condition of being at the computer also implies there is nothing else to do, or bored at work, and the day sucks.

Therefore when there is nothing much to say, what is said is negative.




Wow, that sounds serious! Good thing they hired a public relations firm to nip this little problem in the bud.

I have to admit that I've had less desire to log into Eve lately. She has become more like a chore than a way to relax and blow off some steam. I'm ashamed to admit that I've been playing around town with other online games. I just hope Eve doesn't find out and cut my thumbs off!

Koba Kyogen
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.04 00:52:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Back then we had topics that said the sky was falling and we had our share of forum drama too, but this does look different to me. It clearly goes beyond the issue of lag and the content of the expansions. I thought Nyphur article was throught provoking for me (and I tried to read it from a non CCP perspective as much as possible).

Now just to make it clear, this is no official CCP post but just my personal impression and thoughts. I do think there is a bigger gap between players and developers than there used to be for various reasons which isn't helpful for anyone either.


Shouldn't you be working on an unwanted 3D chat feature? Can't wait to talke with all my Spacebook firends. Can we have virtual gardens and farms please? Pathetic.


Adacia Calla
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.08.04 01:01:00 - [120]
 

CCP has been doing their thing for 7 years, It's had it's ups and downs, but people are really PO'd more than usual for no apparent reason.


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