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blankseplocked Clarification of when epic fleet fights are acceptable is required.
 
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Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.08.02 15:17:00 - [1]
 

Yes we all know about the lag debate and issues that are going on of late, however there is one thing in this all which I feel needs addressing. Namely CCP's current stance on ~Epic Fleet Fights~

On the one hand they promote the game on the basis of these massive scale battles. Then of course there is the issue of '18 months' and prioritising Incarna etc. Finally we even have a thread locked ruling that arranging a large scale battle was breaking the Terms of Service.

This thread wished to bring the fleet fights 0.0 is famous for over to Empire and was promptly locked, invoking rule #17 stating that "You may not engage in any activity that increases the difficulty and/or expense of CCP in maintaining the EVE Online client, server, web site or other services for the benefit and enjoyment of all its users."

So what I am unclear about is why it's OK to stage epic battles in 0.0 where the node distribution seems far poorer than in empire, yet attempting to fight where the servers perform at their best (empire) is not allowed.

You can counter argue that the thread I reference was deliberately designed to test the server, but with the rule #17 invokation, and the current state of the game, this could be used to mass ban anyone anywhere who brings a fleet large enough to cause a node crash (which at the moment could be as few as 10 supercaps jumping into an empty system).

So. Are we allowed massive fleet fights as advertised or not? And why not in empire?

Lorkin Desal
Caldari
Lone Star Partners
Posted - 2010.08.02 15:24:00 - [2]
 

Of course epic fleet fights are available in empire. Would be kind of silly not to be able to fight in a legal war ..oh wait...

sorry.




Zeke Mobius
Posted - 2010.08.02 15:27:00 - [3]
 

So its ok for an empire corp to wardec a 0.0 corp but its not ok for the 0.0 corp to mass a huge fleet to go fight in empire to those that wardec them? Lets just pretend its Jita for the sake of the argument. So, rule 17 gives refuge to small corps in empire hiding from 0.0 corps? I dont get it ccp. Can you friggin CODDLE EMPIRE ANYMORE than rule 17? Seriously? Like wtf.

Nuadi
Posted - 2010.08.02 15:36:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Gladys Pank
So what I am unclear about is why it's OK to stage epic battles in 0.0 where the node distribution seems far poorer than in empire, yet attempting to fight where the servers perform at their best (empire) is not allowed.


From what I understand, the population dynamic in Jita prohibits fleet fights due in part to the system already being loaded to maximum capacity without a fleet in system. Knowing that, and then attempting to stage a fleet fight there is a clear violation of Rule #17.

If you'd like to hold a fleet fight, there are thousands of other systems available. Report your fleet fight using the appropriate channels, and move on.

Misanthra
Posted - 2010.08.02 16:06:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Zeke Mobius
So its ok for an empire corp to wardec a 0.0 corp but its not ok for the 0.0 corp to mass a huge fleet to go fight in empire to those that wardec them? Lets just pretend its Jita for the sake of the argument. So, rule 17 gives refuge to small corps in empire hiding from 0.0 corps? I dont get it ccp. Can you friggin CODDLE EMPIRE ANYMORE than rule 17? Seriously? Like wtf.


For some reason, empire they care about. Guess ccp hired a new batch of T20 like devs who are in privateers. Wonder if they get t2 bpo's as well?

Misanthra
Posted - 2010.08.02 16:16:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Nuadi
Originally by: Gladys Pank
So what I am unclear about is why it's OK to stage epic battles in 0.0 where the node distribution seems far poorer than in empire, yet attempting to fight where the servers perform at their best (empire) is not allowed.


From what I understand, the population dynamic in Jita prohibits fleet fights due in part to the system already being loaded to maximum capacity without a fleet in system. Knowing that, and then attempting to stage a fleet fight there is a clear violation of Rule #17.

If you'd like to hold a fleet fight, there are thousands of other systems available. Report your fleet fight using the appropriate channels, and move on.


Problem there....2 200 ship fleets do not know 24 hrs out where they will fight fleet battles. Had an innocent pos bash become a 500 man fleet battle no one expecterd just like that. Enemy tried to jump our 100 man fleet, cynos up, hot drops both sides...lets start kickng ass and taking names. Till lag hit. This evolved in just 10 minutes. CCP needs way more time to node reinforce.

Zeke Mobius
Posted - 2010.08.02 16:21:00 - [7]
 

Ok so essentially highsec pos's cant be assualted because that means a fleet needs to be formed?

Nuadi
Posted - 2010.08.02 16:26:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Misanthra
Originally by: Nuadi

From what I understand, the population dynamic in Jita prohibits fleet fights due in part to the system already being loaded to maximum capacity without a fleet in system. Knowing that, and then attempting to stage a fleet fight there is a clear violation of Rule #17.

If you'd like to hold a fleet fight, there are thousands of other systems available. Report your fleet fight using the appropriate channels, and move on.


Problem there....2 200 ship fleets do not know 24 hrs out where they will fight fleet battles. Had an innocent pos bash become a 500 man fleet battle no one expecterd just like that. Enemy tried to jump our 100 man fleet, cynos up, hot drops both sides...lets start kickng ass and taking names. Till lag hit. This evolved in just 10 minutes. CCP needs way more time to node reinforce.


I understand that. I was responding to a concerted effort to arrage fleet fights in Empire space for no other reason than to hold a fleet fight.

An escalated POS bash is a completely different use case.

In response to high-sec POS removal, declare war, and move a fleet in. It doesn't take 200.

GateScout
Posted - 2010.08.02 16:27:00 - [9]
 

The lack of basic comprehension is staggering. Rolling Eyes

Clearly, "intent" is a critical factor. It's no wonder we don't see CCP listening to the players....most seems to be barely literate.

Zeke Mobius
Posted - 2010.08.02 16:39:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: GateScout
The lack of basic comprehension is staggering. Rolling Eyes

Clearly, "intent" is a critical factor. It's no wonder we don't see CCP listening to the players....most seems to be barely literate.


Yea of course its our fault CCP makes a game and advertises it in such a way that its pretty much lying. Of course its the players that have the intent to lag the game and break #17 by doing EXACTLY what ccp advertises can be done. Stop trolling you dev alt.

grrfsweld
Posted - 2010.08.02 16:41:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Nuadi
Originally by: Misanthra
Originally by: Nuadi

From what I understand, the population dynamic in Jita prohibits fleet fights due in part to the system already being loaded to maximum capacity without a fleet in system. Knowing that, and then attempting to stage a fleet fight there is a clear violation of Rule #17.

If you'd like to hold a fleet fight, there are thousands of other systems available. Report your fleet fight using the appropriate channels, and move on.


Problem there....2 200 ship fleets do not know 24 hrs out where they will fight fleet battles. Had an innocent pos bash become a 500 man fleet battle no one expecterd just like that. Enemy tried to jump our 100 man fleet, cynos up, hot drops both sides...lets start kickng ass and taking names. Till lag hit. This evolved in just 10 minutes. CCP needs way more time to node reinforce.


I understand that. I was responding to a concerted effort to arrage fleet fights in Empire space for no other reason than to hold a fleet fight.

An escalated POS bash is a completely different use case.

In response to high-sec POS removal, declare war, and move a fleet in. It doesn't take 200.


but then it sure takes time, and honestly who wants to shoot a large control tower with 30 guys over 30-60min(depending on hardeners even moar), and yes if you bring 50 you may find yourself blackscreened because there were already 120 random empire dwellers in system.

TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.02 16:57:00 - [12]
 

CCP Navigator basicly said "Don't attack anyone in empire" , how the **** do you take down high sec poses now?

CCP are just getting worse and worse by the god dam day.

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2010.08.02 17:04:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Aessoroz on 02/08/2010 17:11:33
1. Have one alliance setup a death star POS in empire for roleplaying.
2. Have spais alert other alliances of death star and fake the info there is a titan bpo in said death star.
3. Have other alliances take the "safest" autopilot route to the target system because they want that possible bpo.
4. Target alliance notices red activity....calls in reinforcements from allies....
5. ???
6. PROFIT! (Or half the player population banned from actually playing the game and not station spinning).

In reality, just organize it outside these forums, these forums are so "politically correct" to the point that you can't post killmails or blogs that link to killmails or your mom who links to the blog who links to the killmails.

Captain Mung
Posted - 2010.08.02 17:27:00 - [14]
 

Stop logging in guys, it's against the TOS.

grrfsweld
Posted - 2010.08.02 17:33:00 - [15]
 

to be fair he had a really distinct scenario in mind, still if CCP says 18 months till the majority of devs work on the problem, I say we hold our disputes in empire(preferably highly populated areas, since those are usually well reinforced). Not to lag out the servers, but to blob each other for fun and giggles.

Zeke Mobius
Posted - 2010.08.02 18:07:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Aessoroz
Edited by: Aessoroz on 02/08/2010 17:11:33
1. Have one alliance setup a death star POS in empire for roleplaying.
2. Have spais alert other alliances of death star and fake the info there is a titan bpo in said death star.
3. Have other alliances take the "safest" autopilot route to the target system because they want that possible bpo.
4. Target alliance notices red activity....calls in reinforcements from allies....
5. ???
6. PROFIT! (Or half the player population banned from actually playing the game and not station spinning).

In reality, just organize it outside these forums, these forums are so "politically correct" to the point that you can't post killmails or blogs that link to killmails or your mom who links to the blog who links to the killmails.


That will be called an exploit since it bypasses rule 17.

I think all of nullsec needs to migrate to empire for the next big war.

MARKETGEDDON!!!! WAR OF THE .01's!!!!!!!!!

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2010.08.02 18:30:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Syn Callibri on 02/08/2010 21:24:49
I wonder what would happen if everyone declared war on CONCORD? Wink

...thats wasn't a suggestion. ugh

Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.08.02 20:44:00 - [18]
 

~C O N C O R D A G E D D O N ~

King Gore
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.08.02 20:54:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Gladys Pank
~C O N C O R D A G E D D O N ~


For profit.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.08.02 21:16:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Gladys Pank
On the one hand they promote the game on the basis of these massive scale battles.
Both of those fights featured around 150 ships in system total.

Thats perfectly playable even without getting a node reinforced as long as noone else in the region is using up the solitary cpu that serves upwards of 30 systems. Hence the importance of getting you node of choice reinforced.

Try again. Smile

Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.08.02 22:49:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Gladys Pank
On the one hand they promote the game on the basis of these massive scale battles.
Both of those fights featured around 150 ships in system total.

Thats perfectly playable even without getting a node reinforced as long as noone else in the region is using up the solitary cpu that serves upwards of 30 systems. Hence the importance of getting you node of choice reinforced.

Try again. Smile


Eh you realise that the Dominion trailer portrays an ideal no lag situation with several hundred in system (with that ammount of dreads, moms etc you'd have a huge support fleet, extra support fleet jumps into system) Then the fleet with 2 titans would have MASSIVE support fleet as well Razz If what you see on screen would be an indication in actual eve it would be around 1000 in local probly.

Add onto that the huge Capital graveyard from a large cap fight beforehand.... they weren't advertising 150 people in local fight :=P


 

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