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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:12:00 - [121]
 

I'm looking forward to it because it's giving Eve a different dimension. Like the poster above me said, it'll be something different to do. You can call it useless or whatever you like. Like wasting time on Eve as it already is isn't useless enough. It's a video game. If some people are going to enjoy the extra eye candy it has already served its purpose, whether you like that or not. And all this assuming that Incarna will bring nothing else.


Giovanni DalleBandeNere
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:17:00 - [122]
 

ehi i didn't say that ;P

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:21:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Giovanni DalleBandeNere
ehi i didn't say that ;P

Pretty sure he was referring to me.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:22:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 04/08/2010 14:23:36
Wasn't referring to anyone in particular. Just that if someone thinks it to be useless and serves no purpose, well, I have news for them. Wasting time playing a video game is already useless to begin with. If doing something useful with their time is what they're looking for, then they're already on the wrong track to begin with.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:24:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 04/08/2010 13:55:31
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Malcanis
That doesn't answer the question though.

What will we be able to do in Incarna?


I don't have the faintest idea. My point was that you shouldn't automatically dislike something just because you don't know much about it.


How about disliking that it's costing a vast amount of urgently needed dev resources in return for.. well, what?

i dont object to Incarna in principle (I've lost count of the number of the times I've said this). I'm as keen as anyone to be able to get out of my pod and do stuff. But it seems beyond ridiculous to get excited about something we literally know nothing about other than we'll have pretty nice looking spaceclothes.

Why are you looking forward to it?


"urgently needed Dev resources" that would be doing... what, exactly? The people working on Incarna aren't properly skilled and qualified to fix lag or whatever, which means that whatever they work on, it's inevitably going to be something that somebody doesn't care about.

I'm looking forward to Incarna because I think it'll probably enrich the game and add another facet to it. The fact that I can't articulate precisely how it will enrich the game, or what exact shape that facet is likely to be doesn't change the fact that I'm looking forward to it, if only so I can find out exactly what they're doing with it.

Hell, even if it DOES turn out to be "here is your house and wardrobe, and some bars to go "drinking" in. have fun!" I'll be happy, because I'm a roleplayer. That's all I want from it, really - everything after that point is bonus material as far as I'm concerned.


This blacklash isn't just about fleet lag you know. That's probably the single biggest sub-issue, but there are hundreds of bugs in the backlog, which relate to every aspect of EVE. In addition to that there are almost 200 CSM approved proposals hanging in limbo, and again these relate to every aspect of EVE you can think of.

And CCP have told their officially appointed player reps that they will not even begin to look at one single proposal for 18 months. When the CSM asked them to just implement a couple of token, very low resource issues, just to show willing and to throw the playerbase a bone, they were given a flat refusal. "Not one inch", to use an appropriate EVE meme.

And the reason given is that every available dev resource is tied up in Incarna and Dust.

That's what it's "costing" us. We've been flatly told that the rest of the game will remain stagnant while Incarna is developed. Not just "fleet fights" (you're aware that encounters right down to the 20v20 range are being affected right?) but bugs, issues and improvements for every part of the game are being pushed back until late 2011. And that's when they'll start looking at them, not when the bugs will be fixed and the improvements implemented.

Given that, yeah I very much want to know more about what we're getting instead. If all we get is 3D chat in an epub and a couple of gambling minigames, then I think we'd be entitled to question whether the price paid was worth what we'll be getting

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:28:00 - [126]
 

Incarna will fix my EVE experience because once it's finally out, maybe CCP can actually fix the game.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:49:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 04/08/2010 14:49:06
Originally by: Malcanis
This blacklash isn't just about fleet lag you know. That's probably the single biggest sub-issue, but there are hundreds of bugs in the backlog, which relate to every aspect of EVE. In addition to that there are almost 200 CSM approved proposals hanging in limbo, and again these relate to every aspect of EVE you can think of.

And CCP have told their officially appointed player reps that they will not even begin to look at one single proposal for 18 months. When the CSM asked them to just implement a couple of token, very low resource issues, just to show willing and to throw the playerbase a bone, they were given a flat refusal. "Not one inch", to use an appropriate EVE meme.


So? Frankly, I think the CSM are a packy of uppity, pompous know-it-alls and I actually resent the idea of being "represented" by them.

I trust CCP to make their game. if that means choosing to assign resources to a project that they have decided is more important than what the CSM have decided is important... whose judgment do I trust more? the professional games designers, or fans who almost certainly aren't in full possession of all the facts, or the knowledge and experience necessary to correctly interpret said facts even if they did?

Quote:
That's what it's "costing" us. We've been flatly told that the rest of the game will remain stagnant while Incarna is developed.


no, we've been flatly told that what the CSM want will remain stagnant while Incarna is developed. Given that I couldn't give a diseased rat's sphincter what the CSM want, this is a state of affairs I am perfectly happy with.

Quality assurance is an ongoing process with its own team. We can see evidence of it in action right now with stress tests on SiSi that are scheduled for tomorrow. Bug fixes and suchlike are introduced to the game on patch days. You watch - when the winter expansion comes out, there will be bug fixes. probably, when CCP actually know what's causing the lag and have a repair ready to go, it'll be the focus of a patch all on its own.

The CSM does not exist to dictate to CCP what they are supposed to be doing. They exist to act as the pipe through which information can flow both ways. They are failing spectacularly to perform that role.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.04 16:09:00 - [128]
 

All I can say is that I admire your blithe optimism. Since your position is essentially founded on faith, there's no point in arguing. We'll see the results soon enough.

Voith
Posted - 2010.08.04 16:42:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 04/08/2010 14:49:06
Originally by: Malcanis
This blacklash isn't just about fleet lag you know. That's probably the single biggest sub-issue, but there are hundreds of bugs in the backlog, which relate to every aspect of EVE. In addition to that there are almost 200 CSM approved proposals hanging in limbo, and again these relate to every aspect of EVE you can think of.

And CCP have told their officially appointed player reps that they will not even begin to look at one single proposal for 18 months. When the CSM asked them to just implement a couple of token, very low resource issues, just to show willing and to throw the playerbase a bone, they were given a flat refusal. "Not one inch", to use an appropriate EVE meme.


So? Frankly, I think the CSM are a packy of uppity, pompous know-it-alls and I actually resent the idea of being "represented" by them.

I trust CCP to make their game. if that means choosing to assign resources to a project that they have decided is more important than what the CSM have decided is important... whose judgment do I trust more? the professional games designers, or fans who almost certainly aren't in full possession of all the facts, or the knowledge and experience necessary to correctly interpret said facts even if they did?

Quote:
That's what it's "costing" us. We've been flatly told that the rest of the game will remain stagnant while Incarna is developed.


no, we've been flatly told that what the CSM want will remain stagnant while Incarna is developed. Given that I couldn't give a diseased rat's sphincter what the CSM want, this is a state of affairs I am perfectly happy with.

Quality assurance is an ongoing process with its own team. We can see evidence of it in action right now with stress tests on SiSi that are scheduled for tomorrow. Bug fixes and suchlike are introduced to the game on patch days. You watch - when the winter expansion comes out, there will be bug fixes. probably, when CCP actually know what's causing the lag and have a repair ready to go, it'll be the focus of a patch all on its own.

The CSM does not exist to dictate to CCP what they are supposed to be doing. They exist to act as the pipe through which information can flow both ways. They are failing spectacularly to perform that role.

True, only CSMs case about lag. everyone else is just fine with it!

Khebeln
Posted - 2010.08.04 16:46:00 - [130]
 

All the emo hardcore pvp *****s are crying about it. But it wont really change much for them. And it will bring more immersion to the game. I for one was waiting for this 7 years and first thing i didnt like about eve was wtf are my avatars !?

I love the direction that eve is taking and all those doom-sayers should stop whining.

Avatars are dream come true for a lot of people that dont even leave the station while playing eve like a good deal of traders, manufacturers and people that just want to enjoy some social time or relax instead of ****ing their pants during wardecks when often (in high sec ones) if corporation only got miners and manufacturers, they can do nothing but sit in station and get bored or quit the game.

This will bring alternative options, and game styles. If you think about it only pirates and griefers are complaining about this expansion. Why ? Because people can have alternative things to do while they try to screw you over :)

B1FF
Posted - 2010.08.04 18:28:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Stitcher

"urgently needed Dev resources" that would be doing... what, exactly? The people working on Incarna aren't properly skilled and qualified to fix lag or whatever, which means that whatever they work on, it's inevitably going to be something that somebody doesn't care about.


Invalid premise. Those people are paid with resources. Resources that could be used to hire people who know how to fix lag rather than design clothing.

Quote:
I'm looking forward to Incarna because I think it'll probably enrich the game and add another facet to it. The fact that I can't articulate precisely how it will enrich the game, or what exact shape that facet is likely to be doesn't change the fact that I'm looking forward to it, if only so I can find out exactly what they're doing with it.


Double standard. If, as you said in an earlier post, you can't dislike it because we don't know anything then it's equally true that you can't like it. For the same reason.

Why this double standard?

Quote:
Hell, even if it DOES turn out to be "here is your house and wardrobe, and some bars to go "drinking" in. have fun!" I'll be happy, because I'm a roleplayer.


How do you address the flaw in the basic design of WiS? Look at the people you interact with right now. Are you docked? Are they docked? Are you both docked at the same station? If the answer to any of these is no then you won't be roleplaying with them? The simple fact is the current communication system is vastly superior to WiS since it works anywhere while doing anything.

Are you friends really going to stop playing EvE and travel to your location so they can talk to you? Something they can already do? Plus there's the whole issue of Vent also being a far superior communication tool than WiS.

B1FF
Posted - 2010.08.04 18:40:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Khebeln
I for one was waiting for this 7 years and first thing i didnt like about eve was wtf are my avatars !?


Well since you're here posting the lack of avatars didn't stop you from playing the game. That kind of shoots down your own arguement.

Quote:
This will bring alternative options, and game styles.


Could you give an example please? CCp has released no features so I'm confused how you can reach this position.

Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
Posted - 2010.08.04 18:42:00 - [133]
 

This torrent of whine has broken my spirit, i too start to feel that incarna will be like eating prepared fly brains; a whole barrel of them.

Sure hope ccp will break the great silence and speak out to how ambulation will add anything to the game.

B1FF
Posted - 2010.08.04 18:55:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Dristra
This torrent of whine has broken my spirit, i too start to feel that incarna will be like eating prepared fly brains; a whole barrel of them.

Sure hope ccp will break the great silence and speak out to how ambulation will add anything to the game.


That's all I'm asking for.

I'm just sick of people claiming it's going to be the best thing ever when we know nothing about it.

Jovialmadness
Posted - 2010.08.04 19:10:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Lord XSiV
I am surprised no one has figured out the big push by CCP to get incarna and dust done.....

You see it has all to do with 'prettying' up CCP to sell. Yes, sell out as in get bought by one of the big companies.

Here is what happened. The owners of CCP went out to market with their shinny and thought they could get a pretty penny for their spaceship game. Unfortunately they didn't have a clue as to properly valuate in this kind of market so just like every monkey business idea on shows like Shark Tank and Dragon's Den, the evaluation was off by some crazy factor. Rejected like a neglected step child they did the smart thing and asked for some advice on how they could make their 'shinny' become as valuable as they thought it should be.

So they were told to bring in more subscribers, users, customers, whatever so that the valuation could be justified.

Now herein lies the problem; Eve is marketed as a cold, harsh place not friendly for the carebear and emo types that so frequent the other 'farmville' games out there. We the player base help foster that ideal by pretty much stepping on any pathetic plebe who thinks non-consensual anything should be dealt with capital punishment. The 'problem' is not only in the fundamental game mechanics but inherent in the existing playerbase, so therefore the solution has to not only change the game mechanics to be more appeasing to the emo fail population but also to neuter the existing playbase.

A plan was hatched some time ago that took an approach using the 'free expansions' to introduce things that had 2 objectives:

1. Be attractive for people not interested in Pvp
2. Irritate the existing hardcore playerbase so they would quit thus providing a more enjoyable environment for emo farmeville micro-transaction players

There are two distinct cases in point that support the aforementioned:

1. Planetary Interaction - No pvp whatsoever so it attracts farmer type players. Irritates the existing playerbase as previously sold NPC items are no longer available. Both accomplished
2. Sovereignty Changes - Due to broken mechanics and half baked code, the new changes eliminated pos warfare and thus a substantial amount of pvp. Irritated the existing playerbase since it is near impossible to take systems.

As well, the current lag experienced by null sec can be explained easily by CCP diverting computing resources from nullsec to empire. That accomplishes both objectives as well; emo farmer types can happily run missions and the playerbase is irritated to the point that Sov warfare is impossible.

So you ask how incarna will improve the game?

Simple, CCP will be sold to a large production company who will be able to actually run the game properly. After the CCP founders/owners get their huge check they will gtfo leaving the game in shambles (argumentatively it already is) which during the transition, the 'fat' will be cut. This means:

1. The fanboi devs who were hired on for the past 5 years for half of market rate will get fired.
2. Original devs who know how to code properly will be lured back.
3. A production manager with a love for the game will be assigned and held accountable for growth and success.
4. Adequate hardware will be provided (not the junk they just moved to) to ensure the game runs properly.

Unfortunately this is going to take some time, ala the 18 month window they have been given. Personally I can't wait for either Sony or EA to purchase CCP; at least I know that either entity has the resources (and customer support) to have the game function as advertised.

tl;dr

CCP is selling out. You heard it here first. Bookmark thread for review in 18-24 months so I can say 'I told you so'





I cant speak for CCP concerning them selling. I can say that if Sony got their paws on eve that within a year we all will be flying unicorns with rainbow colored saddles that shoot lazer beams from their horns. All that in space as well.

Ok maybe not but i honestly dont think any of the older players would remain. Hell id leave the day i heard it was hapoening.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.04 23:38:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 04/08/2010 23:38:46
Originally by: B1FF
Invalid premise. Those people are paid with resources. Resources that could be used to hire people who know how to fix lag rather than design clothing.


So the point still stands that no matter WHAT that money is spent on, somebody is going to be dissatisfied with the allocation.

Quote:
Double standard. If, as you said in an earlier post, you can't dislike it because we don't know anything then it's equally true that you can't like it. For the same reason.

Why this double standard?


It's not a double standard to be optimistic and say that I'm looking forward to it. It would be a double standard if I concluded that it's definitely going to be really awesome, with not much solid evidence to base that conclusion on.

Quote:
How do you address the flaw in the basic design of WiS? Look at the people you interact with right now. Are you docked? Are they docked? Are you both docked at the same station? If the answer to any of these is no then you won't be roleplaying with them? The simple fact is the current communication system is vastly superior to WiS since it works anywhere while doing anything.


You're underestimating the willingness of a roleplayer to relocate if it means they get to RP in a slightly more immersive setting. I played Dungeons & Dragons Online for a bit, and despite the presence of guild chatter, the guys would still trek into town and gather at one of the inns rather than just RP from wherever they happened to be.

for instance, right now we've got a channel called "The Last Gate" which is Veto. corp's private nightclub. If they set up an Incarna version, I suspect that a LOT of the people who frequent that channel will be moving a spare jump clone to the station they install it in.

I suspect you're also underestimating the willingness and desire of less RP-focused players to have a place that's "theirs" or their corporation's.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2010.08.04 23:57:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: B1FF

I'm just sick of people claiming it's going to be the best thing ever when we know nothing about it.


Or the worst thing ever.

Personally I can't wait for it..

Kireiina
Posted - 2010.08.05 06:16:00 - [138]
 


It's pretty irrelevant really. Incarna is just a tech-demo for WoD and a palliative to make Eve-players feel like they're getting something for funding the development of CCP's future games.



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