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Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.08.04 04:43:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Lord XSiV
Conspiracy post



If there is any kind of selling out or marketing type conspiracy going on its more likely to be the down to the deal with Atari. Atari not only publishes the retail box EVE client but also handles marketing, to what extent and how much influence they have in the development of EVE I don't know but after the huge losses Atari suffered (100s of millions last year alone) and the craptastic direction the game has took the last few years it really wouldn't surprise me if the typical fail of Atari hasn't got a hand in whats going on.

Of course this is just my own slightly ignorant opinion and probably total bull****.

Alexanys
Posted - 2010.08.04 05:00:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Higgs Bison
In EVE, I fly spaceships. I shoot at other spaceships, controlled by players like myself or NPCs.

In what identifiable ways will Incarna improve this for me?



By adding subs to the game so they can afford the resources to fix the space portion of the game for one. Second, avatars are required for a real mmo experience, 3rd...You have already lost, yes the WoW kids will be coming over once Incarna goes live, deal with it or leave imho.

Higgs Bison
Posted - 2010.08.04 07:21:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Alexanys
By adding subs to the game so they can afford the resources to fix the space portion of the game for one.


They've been adding subs since launch, and the space portion of the game is still broken.

Thanks for coming out.

Red Kelly
Posted - 2010.08.04 08:01:00 - [94]
 

Here's something I still don't grasp, or just haven't read it anywhere.
What actually the INCARNA development will give to the player, so far I haven't heard what will walking in space station will provide, I mean what activities you be able to perform in station that will gain you ISK?

The PVP side of EVE provides the fun, but in order to have fun you need to have ISK to buy ships for blowing other players in space, you need to build/mine stuff to sell to make ISK.
All that so far is working great just by flying a spaceship.

What activities will incarna open for the players for gaining ISK?
atm I really cant imagine what is CCP going to provide to players just by walking in station, the first time it will be cool with the graphics and all but after that what you can do?

Kharan JinDojan
Posted - 2010.08.04 08:50:00 - [95]
 

I just figured that WiS has to do with the new MMO they are working on. What better way to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Test out the new software and give something new to EvE players.

Too bad most of us only want to play spaceships online. Fix the lag issues first IMHO, that should be the main priority.


Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.04 10:10:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 04/08/2010 10:23:15
Originally by: Higgs Bison
In EVE, I fly spaceships. I shoot at other spaceships, controlled by players like myself or NPCs.

In what identifiable ways will Incarna improve this for me?


so... you feel that just because EVE has up to this point been one thing, it should remain that way and that any change that does not apparently or directly contribute to that focus is bad? I think I've just spotted the root cause of the whole anti-Incarna sentiment: Sheer bloody conservative Luddite-ism.

Try opening your mind to a slightly more open frame of mind that welcomes what's new and different. Adding new content, even (or especially!) if it is different and distinct from what already exists is an enriching act.

so even if Incarna winds up doing nothing to enhance your flying of spaceships (an eventuality that I personally doubt), that is still not a bad thing at all. You only think it is because you're fixated on your own narrow-minded interpretation of what the game is and should be.

PS: fixing lag and polishing content is work for people with group of skills A. the people working on Incarna have group of skills B. People with B cannot do work that requires A, and vice versa. Which means that cancelling the Incarna project or reassigning the developers involved in it will have no effect on how quickly the lag issue gets resolved whatsoever.

GAMES DESIGNERS ARE NOT OMNISKILLED: speaking as a games designer myself, I don't know the first thing about how to optimise stackless python, reduce network latency in database transactions or any of that stuff. I know how to make levels, write scenarios, do 3d modelling and make music. All of the staff at CCP will be in the same boat as me, in that they will be specialists in a particular field of games design, and completely unqualified to work in another field.

how the hell long will it be until people start actually understanding this simple bloody fact?

Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
Posted - 2010.08.04 10:13:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Analissa Fiora
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Analissa Fiora
90% of the playerbase is against incarna and we're unhappy with the direction of the game. if they dont fix it eve will burn
No.
incarna is just a stupid little game giving cowardly station-hugging carebears something to do while being camped. if theyre camped theyre not supposed to be "enjoying" it. this is just ccp catering to carebears some more. nobody but carebears want this crap.

You're saying 90% of the players won't enjoy Incarna?

- Firstly most players are mainly miners/missioners.
- Secondly I don't see why PvP oriented players wouldn't like to have a character, it doesn't neccessarily exclude one another. Personally I'd like to have a nice chat and drink in a station after a battle, it all adds to the immersion.
- Thirdly, even if more players rather have rocket, blaster, lag fixes doesn't mean they're against Incarna itself, just against the priority it has been given.

So no.

Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.08.04 10:20:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen on 04/08/2010 10:39:40
As loaded as the original post is, there is a serious issue being raised here. This thread shouldnt be an arguement over whether we want WiS or not, but a genuine discussion on whether we are going to be recieving a serious product.

I will confess to being intrested by the concept. Its something I can take or leave at this point - a moving avatar is frivolous scenery to me, and far from a 'required' addition. But that said, the potential gameplay expansions within stations and planets is vast. The possibilities are limitless... but only if ccp break their cycle of being pretty crap with expansion content.

Now, I don't feel i'm being unduly harsh with that statement. The Sov change expansion is universally touted as having achieved nothing for 0.0 players (bar breaking fleet fights), FW is barely a skeleton of what it wants to be, and how long can we talk on PI's shortcomings? Just consider the endless list of features and possibilities PI could have brought, or the long list of things earlier info releases claimed it would do... then take a look at the reality ugh.

You can't blame people for being sceptical about ccp's ability to deliver the Incarna we want to see. I for one, would consider the amount of time and effort ccp appear to be expending on Incarna to be worth it, if we recieve everything we are expecting and hoping for. But the reality is, going by their own ****-poor past performance, we will recieve a sub-standard mess, with next to nothing to do, and another empty promise of 'filling it in later'. In that hypothetical scenario, the time and effort ccp have expended would have been much better served addressing their existing game.

Im willing to wait and see. I would love ccp to surprise me, but I just don't think they have it in them.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.04 10:22:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Higgs Bison
In EVE, I fly spaceships. I shoot at other spaceships, controlled by players like myself or NPCs.

In what identifiable ways will Incarna improve this for me?


so... you feel that just because EVE has up to this point been one thing, it should remain that way and that any change that does not apparently or directly contribute to that focus is bad? I think I've just spotted the root cause of the whole anti-Incarna sentiment: Sheer bloody conservative Luddite-ism.

Try opening your mind to a slightly more open frame of mind that welcomes what's new and different. Adding new content, even (or especially!) if it is different and distinct from what already exists is an enriching act.

so even if Incarna winds up doing nothing to enhance your flying of spaceships (an eventuality that I personally doubt), that is still not a bad thing at all. You only think it is because you're fixated on your own narrow-minded interpretation of what the game is and should be.


That doesn't answer the question though.

What will we be able to do in Incarna?

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.04 10:24:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
That doesn't answer the question though.

What will we be able to do in Incarna?


I don't have the faintest idea. My point was that you shouldn't automatically dislike something just because you don't know much about it.

Ori Blake
Posted - 2010.08.04 10:35:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Red Kelly
Here's something I still don't grasp, or just haven't read it anywhere.
What actually the INCARNA development will give to the player, so far I haven't heard what will walking in space station will provide, I mean what activities you be able to perform in station that will gain you ISK?

The PVP side of EVE provides the fun, but in order to have fun you need to have ISK to buy ships for blowing other players in space, you need to build/mine stuff to sell to make ISK.
All that so far is working great just by flying a spaceship.

What activities will incarna open for the players for gaining ISK?
atm I really cant imagine what is CCP going to provide to players just by walking in station, the first time it will be cool with the graphics and all but after that what you can do?


I'm hoping it gives us something to do in the game that isn't just PvP and making ISK. It's not like we don't have enough ISK making options anyways, but there is really not much to do in the game otherwise, especially for mainly PvE players.


Graic Valente
Gallente
Valente Galactic Enterprises
Posted - 2010.08.04 10:57:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Higgs Bison
In EVE, I fly spaceships. I shoot at other spaceships, controlled by players like myself or NPCs.

In what identifiable ways will Incarna improve this for me?
More lag. Oh wait..

Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.04 11:00:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Josefine Etrange on 04/08/2010 11:01:54
Originally by: Jint Hikaru

Well, if you and your corp/gang/fleet are station camping someone, you can dock and go find him and /dance in front of him instead of having to smack in local.



Nah, this would not feel like eve. It only becomes "eve'ish" if you can punch that /dance dude in his face and grab the keys of his ship without knowing that he payed 3 mercs from dust to take care of his ship, which gun you down once you enter his ship to steal it.
Now it sounds like eve-online to me ;-)

Well, and it is not like the devs did not such they will bring eve one day into that direction as well, heck they told that they will do this kind of stuff on day in the future even in beta dev chat.

Raneru
Combat and Recon
Posted - 2010.08.04 11:22:00 - [104]
 

I have no idea how Incarna will improve my EvE experience, but I can't wait to find out Wink

Winters Chill
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.08.04 11:24:00 - [105]
 

two words "wiggling butt"

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2010.08.04 11:46:00 - [106]
 

With Incarna does CCP want to copy the game World of Warcraft and have it placed inside stations. You can fight trolls, elves, dwarfs and other monsters inside any station. As most dreadful as it sounds is its logical purpose to get us EVE players out of the stations, have more pew-pew, less docking games, etc.

And now back to something completely different.

Thamul
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:07:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Caldari 5
Originally by: Ishina Fel
Originally by: Mica Petrokov
If 32 of you are being camped in by four guys, you're doing something wrong.


And yet it's surprisingly common, especially in empire wars Laughing


Normally because the combined Combat Skills SP for the 32 in station is ~20M SP and the 4 outside station have ~20M SP each in Combat Skills


Wow. You have no clue how this game works do you?

B1FF
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:12:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Blue Binary
Whilst I am sceptical of Incarna itself improving gameplay for me personally, there is little information about features; my initial impression at the moment is social entertainment and dressing up dolls (animations look shiny). What I am interested in is the market opportunities in supplying goods & services for Incarna related business.



This. It's been years and they have yet to announce a single game mechanic. Anyone who says they're looking forward too is wrong. They can't be looking forward to it. It's simply impossible given the fact that they've told us nothing about it.

But hey it will fill a gap that's missing and bring in high lucrative hardcore PvP/chat and doll dress up demographic.

SemiCharmed
Clans of the Sanctums
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:13:00 - [109]
 

I played the demo back at fanfest in 2008, and quite frankly, sucked like i thought it would. CCP should not have pursued it from the moment it was delayed the first time and just boxed the idea.

CCP = Magpie.

But i for one will hope for the best and plan for the worst.

B1FF
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:17:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Zalafas
Has CCP announced what they intend to do with walking-in-stations, to begin with?


Add to the game. Bring in other people who have to see a body. Expand the EvE universe.

Currently you can do _anything_ and socialize with anyone anywhere. With WiS you have to stop doing what you're doing. Travel to your friend's location so you can chat in 3D! Somehow this is a buff. How does that work exactly.

Anything more specific? Nope. The emperor has no clothes on!

Salen Kane
Amarr
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:22:00 - [111]
 

Incarna will improve your game by bringing in lots of people who dont understand the basics, such as why its a bad idea to mine in the first belt in lowsec, that the maller is bait, that just because the seller CLAIMS that its a navy raven with a custom black paintjob it doesn't make it true, and that shooting the netural repping you will aggro concord. Oh, and there may be boobies.

Some people worry that this influx of new players will dilute the EVE community, filling it with morons, loudmouths and trolls. I wonder if we'll notice any difference.

There is ofcourse a risk that this influx of WoW-players will demand stuff like security in highsec and soulbound spaceships, but luckily CCP doesn't listen to the players.

As for the hardcore players leaving, is this the same hardcore players that left because lasers sucked, then because lasers were OP, then because projetiles sucked, then because projectiles were OP and rockets didn't get fixed, and then because hybrids weren't cool enough? Seriously, we dont quit. Not for long. There aren't enough sandbox games to soak up the hardcore EVE players, so like abused spouses, we come crawling back for another beating soon enough. Maybe THIS time it will be better!

B1FF
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:22:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Fenring

- Firstly most players are mainly miners/missioners.


Currently you can mine and mission and socialize with anyone anywhere. With WiS you have to stop mining or missioning to socialize. Why would people trade 'mining and talking' for 'talking?'

This is the point I just don't understand.

B1FF
Posted - 2010.08.04 12:35:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Aralyn Cormallen
Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen on 04/08/2010 10:39:40
As loaded as the original post is, there is a serious issue being raised here. This thread shouldnt be an arguement over whether we want WiS or not, but a genuine discussion on whether we are going to be recieving a serious product.

I will confess to being intrested by the concept. Its something I can take or leave at this point - a moving avatar is frivolous scenery to me, and far from a 'required' addition. But that said, the potential gameplay expansions within stations and planets is vast. The possibilities are limitless... but only if ccp break their cycle of being pretty crap with expansion content.

Now, I don't feel i'm being unduly harsh with that statement. The Sov change expansion is universally touted as having achieved nothing for 0.0 players (bar breaking fleet fights), FW is barely a skeleton of what it wants to be, and how long can we talk on PI's shortcomings? Just consider the endless list of features and possibilities PI could have brought, or the long list of things earlier info releases claimed it would do... then take a look at the reality ugh.

You can't blame people for being sceptical about ccp's ability to deliver the Incarna we want to see. I for one, would consider the amount of time and effort ccp appear to be expending on Incarna to be worth it, if we recieve everything we are expecting and hoping for. But the reality is, going by their own ****-poor past performance, we will recieve a sub-standard mess, with next to nothing to do, and another empty promise of 'filling it in later'. In that hypothetical scenario, the time and effort ccp have expended would have been much better served addressing their existing game.

Im willing to wait and see. I would love ccp to surprise me, but I just don't think they have it in them.


This. This. This.

The emperor has no clothes. No game play mechanics have been released after 3 or so years of pimping WiS. You'd think they'd have something to tell us.

Many of the things they've said might be in it would actually be _better_ if available outside of WiS. Gambling? Great feature if available anywhere. Crap if available only in WiS. If available outside WiS you're participation will be so much higher.

The fancy map they want to make? Useless if you can't take it with you when you go on the op.

My Postman
Posted - 2010.08.04 13:14:00 - [114]
 

Incarna = Lowsec boost made by CCP!

When all of thousand wow-kiddys come to join to walk in station, they see a shiny spaceship in front of the window.

Thinking wow-kiddy wants spaceship too, goes to store, buys cheap shiny frig. Wow, this stargate in front of me looks hughe, what was this warning saying?

Bingo. Lots of what you call PvP

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.04 13:45:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Malcanis
That doesn't answer the question though.

What will we be able to do in Incarna?


I don't have the faintest idea. My point was that you shouldn't automatically dislike something just because you don't know much about it.


How about disliking that it's costing a vast amount of urgently needed dev resources in return for.. well, what?

i dont object to Incarna in principle (I've lost count of the number of the times I've said this). I'm as keen as anyone to be able to get out of my pod and do stuff. But it seems beyond ridiculous to get excited about something we literally know nothing about other than we'll have pretty nice looking spaceclothes.

Why are you looking forward to it?

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2010.08.04 13:47:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Deka Ekato
how would "Incarna", improve the "Spaceship" game that was/is Eve Online?
By making it more than just a "Spaceship game".

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.08.04 13:53:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Deka Ekato
how would "Incarna", improve the "Spaceship" game that was/is Eve Online?
By making it more than just a "Spaceship game".


The question stands: in what way?

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.04 13:54:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 04/08/2010 13:55:31
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Malcanis
That doesn't answer the question though.

What will we be able to do in Incarna?


I don't have the faintest idea. My point was that you shouldn't automatically dislike something just because you don't know much about it.


How about disliking that it's costing a vast amount of urgently needed dev resources in return for.. well, what?

i dont object to Incarna in principle (I've lost count of the number of the times I've said this). I'm as keen as anyone to be able to get out of my pod and do stuff. But it seems beyond ridiculous to get excited about something we literally know nothing about other than we'll have pretty nice looking spaceclothes.

Why are you looking forward to it?


"urgently needed Dev resources" that would be doing... what, exactly? The people working on Incarna aren't properly skilled and qualified to fix lag or whatever, which means that whatever they work on, it's inevitably going to be something that somebody doesn't care about.

I'm looking forward to Incarna because I think it'll probably enrich the game and add another facet to it. The fact that I can't articulate precisely how it will enrich the game, or what exact shape that facet is likely to be doesn't change the fact that I'm looking forward to it, if only so I can find out exactly what they're doing with it.

Hell, even if it DOES turn out to be "here is your house and wardrobe, and some bars to go "drinking" in. have fun!" I'll be happy, because I'm a roleplayer. That's all I want from it, really - everything after that point is bonus material as far as I'm concerned.

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:05:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Stitcher
My point was that you shouldn't automatically dislike something just because you don't know much about it.

How about disliking that it's costing a vast amount of urgently needed dev resources in return for.. well, what?
Yeah, the "... well, what?" is what he meant by "because you don't know much about it."

Originally by: Malcanis
Why are you looking forward to it?
Ignoring the assumption that CCP will include content beyond walking while wearing clothes and ignoring the plan that Incarna will present a platform open to continued expansion over the coming years, I am looking forward to a shift in "player type" representation. More representation of players as people inhabiting a universe rather than just as spaceship counters in a multiplayer wargame will hopefully broaden the range of play styles and bring back some variety to what has become almost completely a 0.0 NBSI alliance-war monoculture.

Giovanni DalleBandeNere
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
Posted - 2010.08.04 14:12:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Insane Randomness
Now I have been in big and small fleets alike, from two, too two hundred and I have yet to experience truly horrific lag. Just turn the graphics down, thats all. Lag is going to be a part of EVE, weather you like it or not. A game that looks this beautiful is not going to be lag free, especially with this many players.



sorry for the late quote but:
you'r partially right but,when was your last experience in an over 200Vs200 fight?
i mean lag might also be ok (meh i can't belive i'm actually saiyn this ^_^;) but once u blackscreen..turning effects/graphics/sound/whatever down doesn't work..'cause wonder what? the game already took everything down for you..for maybe 30 minutes or 1 hour
cya


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