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blankseplocked Planetary interaction sucks because you can't hurt people with it
 
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.07.28 18:21:00 - [1]
 

So, some people don't seem to like PI. The profits are meager, yeah, but the planets themselves seem a bit dead.

This is Eve. A game for horrible people. PI does not allow me to be horrible. I understand there's a handful of non-horrible people in this game as well, so my proposal will cater to them.

Planets need to be more alive. They need a population. A population that you can interact with, and harm severely, if you so choose. The chronicle Xenocracy gives us a taste of this, but not enough.

I want the option to run your planets in two different ways: benefactor, or tyrant. Could be expressed with a red/blue slider or something. I want the planets to react accordingly. Check it out:

Hypothetical situation: your planet wants to attract a labor work force.

Benefactor response: install civic venues, entertainment districts, sports teams, and assorted breads and circuses.
Bonuses: moderate labor output, large growth rate, occasional cults of worship springing up in honour of the beloved capsuleer.

Tyrant response: institute forced breeding programs, rapid gestation nurseries, grow yourself a semi-human workforce that hates you.
Bonuses: large labor output, but equally large chance that the morlocks will stage an uprising.

Hypothetical situation 2: your planet wants to manufacture product X.

Benefactor response: installing labor unions, modernizing factories, implementing safety standards.
Bonuses: moderate production, growth in work sector due to attractive job prospects.

Tyrant response: Boil labor union leaders alive, skin their families, roll them in salt and employ the terrified remainder in your radioactive agony-mines.
Bonuses: high production, stagnant growth, occasional rebellion.

Hypothetical situation 3: your planet's growing population needs a food supply.

Benefactor response: convert unpopulated areas of planet into arable land, begin agriculture and livestock farming.
Bonuses: low pollution, high planetary morale, additional stockpiles of food to trade with.

Tyrant response: take all the dead from your horrible unsafe factories, and use the biomass to feed the living.
Bonuses: low cost, self-replenishing food source (gotta love that forced breeding program)

Hypothetical situation 4: your populace is growing unhappy with certain facets of their planetside life.

Benefactor response: placate the populace with gifts, listen to their problems, show them what life is like on harder worlds via interstellar communications.
Bonuses: happy planet, more trade.

Tyrant response: cut planet off from interstellar communications, then install a brutal and oppressive government that brainwashes the populace into being content with their horrible lot (think North Korea.) Also, nerve gas a city to make an example of them.
Bonuses: obedient planet, less rebellions, but almost no trade.

I'm using generic terms to express ideas here, but what I really want to see with PI, is an option to behave like the rampant demigods we are. Some gods are benevolent, and some are jerks. This allows the hand-wringing carebear who can't stomp on a Goomba in Super Mario without having a moral breakdown to be the good guy. And it allows sociopaths like me to torment a celestial orb full of tiny fleshy ants whose lives mean nothing except entertainment as I watch their collective faces turn from joy to horror, as my long-promised shipment of exotic dancers to reward their years of back-breaking labour, turns out to be a container full of radioactive waste, which I want them to refine to weapons grade solely by chewing it.

Jonna Bluemoon
Posted - 2010.07.28 18:23:00 - [2]
 

Dust. Anyone? Seriously? Anyone? Rolling Eyes

Pennwisedom
Gallente
Sublime.
Posted - 2010.07.28 18:25:00 - [3]
 

Your post hurt me. Both physically and mentally, does that count?

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2010.07.28 18:25:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Syn Callibri on 28/07/2010 18:26:14

Question: In "eVe Tyrannis Planetary Interaction", will you be a Benevolent Ruler or a Tyranical Despot?

Answer: Neither...theres nobody home.

...just sayin'. Rolling Eyes



Ulesi
Gallente
Infinity Trading Corporation
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.07.28 18:26:00 - [5]
 

I want the ability to nuke someone's colony from orbit. Make it take your sec status to -10 automatically cause the casualties could be in the BILLIONS!

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.28 18:27:00 - [6]
 

PI is too safe in Eve right now.

It is the only infrastructure you can build and own that cannot be blown up.

I know that's coming with DUST, but right now it is a major anomaly.

And what happens if DUST flops, or what happens when the FPS fanbois get tired of DUST and move on to the newest FPS?

MrBadidea
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.07.28 18:27:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: MrBadidea on 28/07/2010 18:27:40
Make this happen. Now.

EVE clearly does not have enough opportunity for skining people alive at present.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.28 18:33:00 - [8]
 

I could not even bring myself to read what you posted Istvaan since PI is supposed to made something to fight over in the future. So there is no use in going all type happy about it not being what it is supposed to be soon™


Slade

Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.07.28 18:55:00 - [9]
 

I'm just looking for a reason I can't fire a 425 t2 rail at the planet and make Dust 514 obsolete. Is there? Thats a for reals question btw.

Ifly Uwalk
Caldari
Concentrated Evil
Posted - 2010.07.28 19:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I want the option to run your planets in two different ways: benefactor, or tyrant.


tl;dr: You want to play PI the way it was originally advertised. Guess what: so does pretty much everyone else.

18 months; 'nuff said.

Ifly

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2010.07.28 19:28:00 - [11]
 

You know a frightening thought...In DUST players can attack and destroy your PI infrastructure, to defend it you will either have to buy DUST and play it OR know someone that does and get them to defend it for you.

My prediction...

1) DUST players will hose our PI (those that have it)...and eVe players will be powerless to stop them.

2) PI goes boom, we no build no more, DUST gets boring, end of DUST.

(the poor grammar was intentional btw)





Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.07.28 19:29:00 - [12]
 

Well to be fair ccp did say they have a permanent team working on pi and that there will definitely be some sort of interaction with dust. But to be fair to us they say stuff like that alot and leave features to swing in the space wind like fw and such.

Lord Xantoh
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:07:00 - [13]
 

OP's thoughts would actually entice me to try PI for once. And to be honest, I had expected it to be exactly like that from the hype that was created during the fanfest...

At this moment, I can't be bothered trying anything as it seems to be a lot of clickety here and there for no real fun value.

Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:17:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Cat Casidy on 28/07/2010 20:36:00

Soo no official reason why we cant just shoot a few large rounds from space, depopulate it of the Dust guys and start over?

Ohnoes, My bases are being overrun and all my soldiers are dead.
Wait Didn't I start this whole thing with a bunch of robots? And I'm watching all this from battleship above the planet.... check market, yeah I can replace those for pretty cheap....uhmm target.. who cares anywhere on that planet in front of me.
Humm... maybee I'll get lucky and those seismic events'll bring more goodies up from the depths.

Fire!
Concord (if applicable) Are you shure you want to do this?

Slash and burn; Fire


Jo Sedu
Ad Astra Vexillum
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:44:00 - [15]
 

Maybe you should bring up this issue to your psychologist first.

Fore Khaos
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:35:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm a basement-dwelling ****** who wants to beat up on NPCs cuz I'm scared of real people. Nevermind that I'm playing a game that would be investigated for causing suicides if it were as popular as WoW or Halo.


Go play Sims if it means that much to you.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:38:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Fore Khaos
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm a basement-dwelling ****** who wants to beat up on NPCs cuz I'm scared of real people. Nevermind that I'm playing a game that would be investigated for causing suicides if it were as popular as WoW or Halo.


Go play Sims if it means that much to you.

That's a pretty tough post you just made. You must be a pretty tough guy.

Calistai Huranu
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:46:00 - [18]
 

I was under the impression that actually doing PI was a form of self-griefing..

But yes, we should be able to choose how we run our planetary concern's etc, it might make PI something worth caring about, thus actually grief-worthy when Dust comes along. Currently come dust, if I can be arsed to clickfest planets, when another player does hire dust players to attack am I really going to care about it, No. Am I going to hire other Dust players to fight on the surface to defend my clickfest, No.

Serpent Qor
Posted - 2010.07.28 21:58:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Serpent Qor on 28/07/2010 21:58:51
Originally by: Fore Khaos
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm a basement-dwelling ****** who wants to beat up on NPCs cuz I'm scared of real people. Nevermind that I'm playing a game that would be investigated for causing suicides if it were as popular as WoW or Halo.


Go play Sims if it means that much to you.


Are you a newer player? You obviously don't know who Istvaan is. I'll be surprised if you are still alive after making that comment.

NTRabbit
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.07.28 22:17:00 - [20]
 

I support this idea, mostly because I already hashed it out with Istvaan earlier today.

Originally by: Fore Khaos
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm a basement-dwelling ****** who wants to beat up on NPCs cuz I'm scared of real people. Nevermind that I'm playing a game that would be investigated for causing suicides if it were as popular as WoW or Halo.


Go play Sims if it means that much to you.


Amusing, in so many ways. Eve doesn't cause suicides, child. We do.

Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium
Posted - 2010.07.28 22:27:00 - [21]
 

I was laughing pretty much constantly trying to read your post. I love it. Laughing

Nybbas
Guiding Hand Social Club
Dystopia Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.28 22:41:00 - [22]
 

I would love it if PI would be a caricature of Sim City. We should be able to interact with the populace and manipulate the governance as we see fit, conditions of our rule having consequences on production and living conditions. We could be anything from the personal demigod that touches everyones' lives for better or worse or the hands-off deistic demigod that allows the populace to use their isk produced to enhance their lives on their own, takes some off the top, or greedily takes it all.

I'd also like to see weather conditions impact production or even wreck havoc on your structures, I mean who didn't love inflicting natural disasters on their cities?

Serpent Qor
Posted - 2010.07.28 22:48:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Jonna Bluemoon
Dust. Anyone? Seriously? Anyone? Rolling Eyes


He's looking at it from EVE's side. Current PI needs this. It was supposed to be like the OP.

Urbricht Tremadog
Posted - 2010.07.28 23:06:00 - [24]
 

I like this idea a lot. These sort of mechanics just beg to be used to screw people over in amusing ways. You could accidentally locate your large industrial complexes near somebody else's colony, belching toxic waste into the rivers they swim through without a care, or alternatively the nice guy can mess with a dictator by showing his subjects that the grass IS greener on the other side, convincing them to form picket lines, or even rebel openly. If there was a well thought out mechanic to support this idea, I'd be signing up.

The best part is that if this ended up making PI into a simcity style endeavour, that would beg for the long-standing tradition of creating a disaster on top of your creation when you get annoyed with it. Simply replace the option to flood your city with the option to "accidentally" drop a torpedo into orbit. Sorry guys! Twisted Evil

magichatno9
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.28 23:07:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Serpent Qor
Edited by: Serpent Qor on 28/07/2010 21:58:51
Originally by: Fore Khaos
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm a basement-dwelling ****** who wants to beat up on NPCs cuz I'm scared of real people. Nevermind that I'm playing a game that would be investigated for causing suicides if it were as popular as WoW or Halo.


Go play Sims if it means that much to you.


Are you a newer player? You obviously don't know who Istvaan is. I'll be surprised if you are still alive after making that comment.


oh big freakin deal. there are tons of scammers who do all sorts of even crazier stuff...

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2010.07.28 23:36:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Olleybear on 28/07/2010 23:40:19
.
Can I have a colony that produces nothing but beer and hookers? With a slider to adjust whether I want slimmer, more athletic hookers with a slight attitude and lighter beer if slide one way, or a slightly plumper, but easier going hooker with a full bodied beer if I slide it the other way?

Oh, and training centers for both the brewers and hookers. I want incredibly skilled people in both areas afterall.

Yes? Please?

Edit: and after olley hits submit he notices the corp the OP is in, knows its way too late to pretend nothing was said, and goes into deeeep hiding looking over his shoulder at every sound, whisper, and shadow.....

Serpent Qor
Posted - 2010.07.28 23:47:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: magichatno9
Originally by: Serpent Qor
Edited by: Serpent Qor on 28/07/2010 21:58:51
Originally by: Fore Khaos
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
I'm a basement-dwelling ****** who wants to beat up on NPCs cuz I'm scared of real people. Nevermind that I'm playing a game that would be investigated for causing suicides if it were as popular as WoW or Halo.


Go play Sims if it means that much to you.


Are you a newer player? You obviously don't know who Istvaan is. I'll be surprised if you are still alive after making that comment.


oh big freakin deal. there are tons of scammers who do all sorts of even crazier stuff...

No.

Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.07.28 23:50:00 - [28]
 

Didn't you get the memo? Eve isn't a game for horrible people anymore, that's why the last expansions have concentrated on adding social networking stuff, and farmville in space, and future expansions will add facilities for playing dress up and FPS. This is why the space combat side of the game is being phased out by gradually breaking it more with each passing expansion to the point where the combat is unplayable and territorial conquest is both unfeasible and essentially pointless.

The problem with the old Eve being just for horrible people is that CCP want more subscribers than their servers can handle, and having seen other MMOs gain subscriber base by appealing to the larger demographic of consumers who are nice poeple who like Elves and bunny rabbits they have decided that changing Eve to attract those potential customers is far more important than evolving it in a direction that stands any chance of satisfying the existing customers that made Eve a success in the first place.

Ghaylenty
Posted - 2010.07.29 00:23:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Ghaylenty on 29/07/2010 00:23:41
planets need a population that costs & benefits the owner ISK. to go along with people living on planets, we need a doomsday device to make them stop living there. allow the DDer to loot the planets, giving killrights to the entire alliance as well as dropping their security status permanently (or, at least for a year, ala remap style) below -5.0 with the special security status, -11.0 able to be reached after destroying planets consecutively.


PI planets could be hotspots of loot and pvp. but no, lets just make them hotspots for carpal tunnel syndrome instead because that attracts more players... isnt that what the data says? things that are unfun make us more money, right?

iP0D
Posted - 2010.07.29 00:42:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
valid comments


Hate to burst the bubble, but look at the business perspective here. The days were they catered to those states of mind that pushes events & trends are over, today they cater to the prey - yes, without realising that those are more fickle and harder to retain because of approaching the game from a very different range of formats.

I understand what you are trying to say, but, get used to it. Besides, the ones who could affect change have no idea what you are talking about. To them the old values - product and company -have become technicalities and commercial parameters. Even if you clear it up for them, it has no value for them in their business development models.


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