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blankseplocked Phoenix vs Moros
 
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Lenny Nova
Posted - 2010.07.24 19:51:00 - [1]
 

Was lit a bit confused with few softs to calculate the dps of both. Im looking for dps but not the alpha calc. Could some1 to help and to get right figures?
Lets assume all skills are lvl5, no implants and so on, rails and cruise missiles. . On both siege and non.
Txs

Iguanoid
Caldari
No.Mercy
Merciless.
Posted - 2010.07.24 21:56:00 - [2]
 

Regardless, if this is a help me decide which dread question go for a moros.

Lenny Nova
Posted - 2010.07.25 16:42:00 - [3]
 

No, I'm just looking for right dps figures for both dreads
txs in any way

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.25 16:51:00 - [4]
 

How about eft?

Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.25 19:30:00 - [5]
 

Moros..

Lenny Nova
Posted - 2010.07.25 19:40:00 - [6]
 

eft was used for calculation among other websites calc and softs
this is why this question raised
results are way too different!

Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.25 19:52:00 - [7]
 

Phoenix sucks. Its that simple. Moros can effectively engage at 200km+, Phoenix cant.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.25 20:43:00 - [8]
 

Depends on exact situation, but enough where phoenix is better.

Lenny Nova
Posted - 2010.07.26 10:25:00 - [9]
 

still no figures for DPS
Sad

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.26 10:34:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 26/07/2010 10:34:09
You dont even post at which skill levels and how many + which damage mods and drones.

But if i had to post something, i would c/p it just from EFT, way too lazy to calculate it with the ingame stats and stuff, if you want that you can also do it yourself. But i would be VERY surprised if EFT is wrong, more likely you put wrong data in EFT/whatever you compare it with.

Why dont you start by posting which fittings you used and how different the results were you got.

Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.26 13:16:00 - [11]
 

Theres really no need to put up dps figures etc. Moros is better than Phoenix.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.26 13:36:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 26/07/2010 14:13:35
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Theres really no need to put up dps figures etc. Moros is better than Phoenix.

So if you in a small low sec corp need to bash some pos's you rather use a moros than a phoenix? Why exactly? (Lets assume large POS, so you need a range of roughly 30-35km).

Or larger close range hotdrops, where torps have a way better range than blasters. For longer ranges phoenix has flight time issues, but moros has sentry issues (limitted range).

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.26 13:42:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Theres really no need to put up dps figures etc. Moros is better than Phoenix.


It depends on the situation. Moros has extreme DPS over very short range, and low dps over long range. With proper management, the missile flight time isn't a problem (check my youtube video's from the J2 fight for tactics on that), and the phoenix has some sick DPS on both torpedoes and cruise missiles.

Lenny Nova
Posted - 2010.07.26 19:16:00 - [14]
 

txs for reply
Sokratesz txs for a nice movie
back to the story, once again to simplify the calculation all skills on toon and bonuses on ships are lvl5
no implants , no modules except 3xblasters and 3xCitadel Torp, no siege mod, stand ammo on 0 r/bonus, no drones

btw torp will fly to 59.06km while blasters provide us with 37.500+18.750

EFT shows me DPS 263 for Phoenix and 425 for Moros

other calc, let say, frm http://www.qzx.com/eve/weapons.php shows me 357 on Moros and 528 on Phoen .
from other source (geek) is 235 on Phoen and 306 on Moros
numbers are sucks
this is why question was raised
where is the right numbers?
txs


Gwydion Telcontar
Gallente
Telcontar Enterprises
Posted - 2010.07.26 19:29:00 - [15]
 

Aren't you forgetting the resists of the target? That is most likely why you got different numbers from different apps.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.26 20:56:00 - [16]
 

You should fit a siege module.

Lenny Nova
Posted - 2010.07.26 21:30:00 - [17]
 

siege mod will just multiply the DPS but base DPS will remain the same

at all calc target resist the same as 0%

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.26 22:24:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lenny Nova
siege mod will just multiply the DPS but base DPS will remain the same

at all calc target resist the same as 0%


Are you taking in account the fact that a phoenix can fit 4 damage mods whereas a moros will usually only have two?

Aldor Fisax
Posted - 2010.07.26 22:49:00 - [19]
 

I clearly didnt use the exact same setup as you but I'm getting the same numbers from both EFT and the website you linked. With all Level 5 on EFT, with 3 Blasters using AM ammo on the Moros I get 535 dps. No other modules or boosters. On the website, with all Level 5, and AM ammo I get 178.5 dps per blaster, which is 535.5 dps for 3.

For the Phoenix, using all L5 with EFT and 3 Citadel Torpedo Launchers, I get 529 dps using Rift Torpedos. On the website, using all L5 I get 176.2 dps per launcher, which comes out to 528.6 dps.

Lenny Nova
Posted - 2010.07.27 00:26:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz


Are you taking in account the fact that a phoenix can fit 4 damage mods whereas a moros will usually only have two?


rlly not since I'm not counting the drone damage as well while it will almost double the Moros dps

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.27 07:29:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Lenny Nova
Originally by: Sokratesz


Are you taking in account the fact that a phoenix can fit 4 damage mods whereas a moros will usually only have two?


rlly not since I'm not counting the drone damage as well while it will almost double the Moros dps


Except drone damage isn't subject to siege module bonuses.

I'm not sure what you are trying to do here, but you're doing it wrong I'm afraid.

Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
Posted - 2010.07.27 07:51:00 - [22]
 

The moros only get the 20'% drone bonus per level in seige now, right?


Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.27 08:20:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/07/2010 08:22:07
Originally by: Dristra
The moros only get the 20'% drone bonus per level in seige now, right?




They planned to only give the 50% bonus whilst in siege, but that was met with a lot of protest, so they resorted to making it 20% always.

On the topic of comparing fittings:

[Phoenix, New Setup 1 import 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Capital Shield Booster I
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Citadel Cruise Launcher I, Rajas Citadel Cruise Missile
Citadel Cruise Launcher I, Rajas Citadel Cruise Missile
Citadel Cruise Launcher I, Rajas Citadel Cruise Missile
Siege Module I

Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I

190km range, 4.05k dps, 2.45mil EHP

[Moros, New Setup 1]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Capital Armor Repairer I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Thorium Charge XL
Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Thorium Charge XL
Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Thorium Charge XL
Siege Module I

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

148+58km range, 2.42k dps, 2.25mil EHP

Drones not used on both cases due to range problems, and the difference they make is small. As mentioned before, the travel time on the phoenix' missiles is not much of a problem if you are paying attention. Only on the extreme ranges (150+) can it become problematic but for anything below that they are fine. The tougher the target you are shooting, the less of a problem the travel time is. Advantages of the moros are instadamage and the ability to swap for somewhat higher damage ammo if the targets happen to be close.

When refitted for close range, nothing much changes. The phoenix still has the highest DPS by quite a lead, and a higher effective range to boot. (falloff..)


Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
Posted - 2010.07.27 08:37:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/07/2010 08:22:07
Originally by: Dristra
The moros only get the 20'% drone bonus per level in seige now, right?



They planned to only give the 50% bonus whilst in siege, but that was met with a lot of protest, so they resorted to making it 20% always.



Thanks, cleared that up.

Lenny Nova
Posted - 2010.07.27 17:27:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Aldor Fisax
I clearly didnt use the exact same setup as you but I'm getting the same numbers from both EFT and the website you linked. With all Level 5 on EFT, with 3 Blasters using AM ammo on the Moros I get 535 dps. No other modules or boosters. On the website, with all Level 5, and AM ammo I get 178.5 dps per blaster, which is 535.5 dps for 3.

For the Phoenix, using all L5 with EFT and 3 Citadel Torpedo Launchers, I get 529 dps using Rift Torpedos. On the website, using all L5 I get 176.2 dps per launcher, which comes out to 528.6 dps.


txs Aldor
I found the difference and now same results wth you

Lenny Nova
Posted - 2010.07.27 17:35:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/07/2010 08:22:07



Drones not used on both cases due to range problems, and the difference they make is small. As mentioned before, the travel time on the phoenix' missiles is not much of a problem if you are paying attention. Only on the extreme ranges (150+) can it become problematic but for anything below that they are fine. The tougher the target you are shooting, the less of a problem the travel time is. Advantages of the moros are instadamage and the ability to swap for somewhat higher damage ammo if the targets happen to be close.

When refitted for close range, nothing much changes. The phoenix still has the highest DPS by quite a lead, and a higher effective range to boot. (falloff..)




txs Sokratesz
I found what was looking for
thanks to guide me

el Sabor
Posted - 2010.07.27 23:03:00 - [27]
 

Small off topic question since Phoenix pilots are posting in here: Do rigor rigs affect citadel cruise missiles?

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.28 08:39:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: el Sabor
Small off topic question since Phoenix pilots are posting in here: Do rigor rigs affect citadel cruise missiles?


Nope, and they would only really help against battleships anyway.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.07.28 09:05:00 - [29]
 

Sorry i am late to the party, just did this quick setup in EFT, no doubt a failfit:

[Naglfar, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Invulnerability Field II
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Citadel Cruise Launcher I, Thunar Citadel Cruise Missile
Citadel Cruise Launcher I, Thunar Citadel Cruise Missile
Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, Titanium Sabot XL
Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I, Titanium Sabot XL
Siege Module I

Large Core Defence Field Extender II
Large Core Defence Field Extender II
Large Core Defence Field Extender II

2.4m EHP's, 3.1k DPS, 90km range, 92% cap stable. Has some spare mids too

And a close range setup:

[Naglfar, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Citadel Torpedo
Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Thor Citadel Torpedo
6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I, EMP XL
6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I, EMP XL
Siege Module I

Large Core Defence Field Extender II
Large Core Defence Field Extender II
Large Core Defence Field Extender II

nearly 7k DPS, 2.7m EHPs

Qui Shon
Posted - 2010.07.28 12:24:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
When refitted for close range, nothing much changes. The phoenix still has the highest DPS by quite a lead, and a higher effective range to boot. (falloff..)


Sure it changes. If you give the Phoenix one extra dmg mod it gets really close to Moros for max dps, but still a lower number. One problem Phoenix has is it needs to reload almost twice as often as Moros, causing a significant drop in dps. It does project this max dps twice as far as Moros does though.

It's not a big problem to push AM optimal to 30km, which is enough for large pos.


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