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Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.23 17:22:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Arkios Odymei

The funny thing about a free market like the one in Eve, is that the price of anything may have absolutely nothing to do with its actual "value". The price is merely a reflection of supply vs demand.


I'm perfectly happy with that. What you are saying though is that the current market indicates that crew is in very high supply (and in very low demand), and that rocketing a m3 of water into space may well be 10 times more expensive than rocketing a trained crewmember into space.

I mean, perhaps our crews are all destitute people just happy to go along with us because they have no place to stay in those big space-stations, and are constantly starving and will serve without pay. Perhaps crew members of our ships don't require any training at all and we can just herd a bunch of vagrants into the ships to do the stuff they need to do.

Its just not very believable to me.

It is easier for me to assume that for all the isk we earn, the SCC automatically and invisibly deducts a percentage which goes to the training and hiring of crew. And that the SCC garantuees crew rotation schedules and the fees take care of shipping crew back and forth between space stations, from population centers to popular ship building facilities etc.

Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.23 17:46:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Viktor Fyretracker on 23/07/2010 17:46:11
All ships have crews, we dont see it but they do.

i think it is up to the player if they have escape pods/life boats. i tend to think they do but like all ships not everyone is going to make it.

but also i tend to think ships would last a bit longer and go through a disabled phase rather than just explode. but in game you dont want to chase a limping battleship around the local cluster for a few hours trying to "Sink the Bismark". so that is why we have rapid pop!

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.23 19:33:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
While background info may say we have crew, most indications in game disprove that idea.

If you bring a packaged POS into a wormhole, does crew magically appear to board it once you launch it?


Your ship has crew quarters and you can convert cargo space to crew quarters-- some of the volume allotment of PoS is crew.

Quote:
From where? If you built ships inside a wormhole with that same POS, does trained crew magically appear by the thousands to board your ships?


A POS is a fully functioning colony with its own low-level traffic, etc, though it's more self-sustaining than most stations. It has a large enough population to crew ships, since that's mostly grunt work and you can shove any bum into a crew position, like press-ganging in the old British Navy. There is also some assumed communicaiton with other colonies outside of capsuleer traffic.

Quote:
What possible RP explanation could be conceived for crew appearing inside wormholes to crew the ships build there?


Again, there are a couple hundred thousand capsuleers in a world with a population in the hundreds of trillions. A planet may have a population in excess of a couple billion, and a station, POS or otherwise, often has a million or two by the time it's been rendered fully operational, they're cities in space. Your 6k crew for your battleship (most of whom have the future equivalent of a high school education or less in the case of a BS) is a tiny, piddling little number dwarfed by the non-capsuleer presence that's around you in any populated star system... including ones populated at your behest.
Quote:

Do crews happily board a ship of a capsuleer engaging in insurance fraud?


The ones that willingly sign on are typically people that are willing to take the risk in return for what to them is an epic monetary reward (and to us is pocket change). Crewing a capsuleer ship, it's been noted in the lore, is almost a guaranteed death sentence within the first six months, but if you survive you're wealthy beyond your wildest dreams.

We're effectively immortal, and thus have a common psychosis where we don't value life at all. We're also fickle and often crazy in other ways as well. This is known, so our crews tend to consist of the stupid, the brazen, and the desperate. We're also known for not telling the crews what's going on, and would, on average, have no compunction about murdering a couple thousand people for a few isk (we do it constantly to pirate colonies and the like).

Quote:

Is Concord happy to kill thousands of crew for a silly mistake by a capsuleer? Concords willfull destruction of tens of thousands of ships for things like targeting mistakes makes all the Sansha invasions pale by comparison.


A standard ship is fitted with crew escape capsules. Since CONCORD gives warning before firing, that's probably the one situation where a crewman doesn't really have to worry about dying, they've got plenty of time to get strapped in before the explosion.

And, typically, CONCORD considers the crew complicit anyhow, so they wouldn't care regardless.

Quote:

For all intents and purposes, the game behaves as if there wasn't any crew inside the ships. If CCP states capsuleer ships, even battleships, only need a handful of crew, it would certainly be more believable.


The game acts as if you're an inhuman monster and barely capable of comprehending the existence of other humans. This is appropriate, because, in context, that's exactly what you're playing.

So quit yer whinging.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.23 19:38:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
What you are saying though is that the current market indicates that crew is in very high supply (and in very low demand), and that rocketing a m3 of water into space may well be 10 times more expensive than rocketing a trained crewmember into space.


A cubic meter of water has to be refined or moved out of the gravity well of the planet. Crew come from the stations, which they either were born on or got to via their own funding. There's also limited space on a station, so there is a lot of excess in personnel and a deficit of consumable commodities like purified water.

Put another way, if you lived in a desert and were offered either a slave to tend your camels or 20 gallons of water (roughly the equivalent weight, you'd take the water in a heartbeat.

C Brachyrhynchos
Posted - 2010.07.23 19:45:00 - [65]
 

Water is universally the scarce resource in science fiction, in spite of being one of the most common molecules in the universe and dirt-cheap to refine.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.23 19:49:00 - [66]
 

confirming in this second thread that ship's crew is an item in the game you can buy on the market and place in your ship. If you do this your ship has a crew. If you do not it does not.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.23 19:50:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: C Brachyrhynchos
Water is universally the scarce resource in science fiction, in spite of being one of the most common molecules in the universe and dirt-cheap to refine.


Its component atoms and the substance itself are needed by everyone for everything, so it's scarce in the the sense of a natural resource being scarce, not in terms of absolute frequency of the molecules in the universe.

And "easy to refine" is flat-out incorrect. It's an incredibly good solvent of a lot of things that make it unusable for consumption or industrial operation. The way it's "refined" for your drinking water, for instance, involves the majority of the solar energy hitting earth going into the evaporation of salt water. How about you tell someone who has to refine it directly (a desalination plant) how easy water is to refine -- they probably need the laugh.

C Brachyrhynchos
Posted - 2010.07.23 20:17:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Lost Greybeard
Originally by: C Brachyrhynchos
Water is universally the scarce resource in science fiction, in spite of being one of the most common molecules in the universe and dirt-cheap to refine.


Its component atoms and the substance itself are needed by everyone for everything, so it's scarce in the the sense of a natural resource being scarce, not in terms of absolute frequency of the molecules in the universe.


Water is the second most common molecule after molecular hydrogen outside of the frostline of the solar system and becomes more abundant the further out you go. Just drop a drone onto any of the ubiquitous icy bodies and start digging.

Quote:
And "easy to refine" is flat-out incorrect.


Not incorrect at all. Basic high school science here. Distilling water is less energy intensive than iron, aluminum, or titantium. Reverse osmosis is even more energy-efficient. And unlike working with metals, you don't need solvents or reagents so it's much cleaner.

The problem with desalinization isn't that it's hard, or complex. It's that it's not competitive with groundwater systems given our current economics. In the setting of EVE, where you have power plants capable of accelerating million-killogram masses, FTL travel, and artificial gravity, the energy costs are trivial.

StarRanger
Gallente
Royal Star Ranger Family
Posted - 2010.07.23 20:20:00 - [69]
 

There is even a movie about how live on board a battleship is :)

http://vimeo.com/4623147

Thumiel Zaul
NeoCom Experiments
Posted - 2010.07.23 20:56:00 - [70]
 

Quote from eve backstory - "Jovian Wet Grave"

linkage here

Jovian Wet Grave

" The inside of Cargo Hold B was cold and darkly lit. In the middle of the floor was a black metal object, about four or five meters tall. Numerous pipes and wires linked it with the walls of the cargo hold. The object was obviously of Jovian design; it had the same oddly carved shape as the Jovian ship and shuttle. The Jovians walked up to the object and made a quick inspection of it.
"This is a capsule," Anu said to the Caldari. "It is used to control a ship. With it a ship a big as this one can be controlled with only a handful of crew and smaller ships, like your frigates, can even be controlled by a single person." "

According to the story that was 120 years ago, roughly in the eve timeline in the early days of the Capsuleer phenomenon. It would be safe to assume that our ships have either a very small number of crww on board, or that technology has now advanced far enough that we can in fact control our ships entirely on our own. If you look far enough you cna find all the back story you need for EvE

Y Berion
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.23 21:04:00 - [71]
 

Someone should merge these two paralel threads lol

Zeredek
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.23 21:29:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Zeredek on 23/07/2010 21:29:51
Originally by: Y Berion
Someone should merge these two paralel threads lol

Sorry, but that would require using the right half of your brain, which you appear to be incapable of.


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