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blankseplocked CNR or Golem for blitzing?
 
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JonnyRandom
Posted - 2010.07.19 21:50:00 - [1]
 

Wondering what would be faster for blitzing mishes? I've already got Nightmare for Blood Angels and Sansha, and I can do other factions with it fine, too, but I want to maximize speed.
I'm thinking since CNR has such a longer range maybe I should go for that, but does the longer range pay off on the much lower damage than the Golem?

EZ Windy
Posted - 2010.07.19 22:13:00 - [2]
 

The rate of fire on the Golem is indeed lower then that of the CNR (for similar cruise missile I mean) but the volley damage is somewhat higher provided you have the right skills. You will also use half the amount of missiles you would on a CNR. That pays off if you use faction missiles.

If you like to loot and salvage your missions, the Golem also makes it very easy and fast. Place 3x tractor beams in the high slots to pull everything in a bubble around you at twice the speed and distance (40km max) of a normal tractor been (its a Golem bonus). The Golem has a massive amount of cargo space space so you can do most of your looting on the spot, and then come back to salvage (no running around). For missions, I dumped the CNR and now use the Golem.


JonnyRandom
Posted - 2010.07.20 02:09:00 - [3]
 

You don't seem to understand what blitzing missions means =/

Saraphos
Posted - 2010.07.20 04:06:00 - [4]
 

A rigor CNR will complete blitz most missions faster, a 2-3 TP Golem would be situational if all the targets are within 38km.

GGjita
Posted - 2010.07.20 04:29:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: GGjita on 20/07/2010 04:29:38
It completely depends on the mission. If it is a mission where everything is already starting up close use the Golem, if your gonna need the range then go with the CNR. If you can only use 1 ship they are both going to avg. about the same over the long run just blitzing (The CNR might be just a tad faster) but the Golem will take an isk/hr lead if you are cherry picking loot/salvage as you go.

Greengimp

EZ Windy
Posted - 2010.07.20 05:14:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: GGjita
Edited by: GGjita on 20/07/2010 04:29:38
It completely depends on the mission. If it is a mission where everything is already starting up close use the Golem, if your gonna need the range then go with the CNR. If you can only use 1 ship they are both going to avg. about the same over the long run just blitzing (The CNR might be just a tad faster) but the Golem will take an isk/hr lead if you are cherry picking loot/salvage as you go.

Greengimp


You are think of a Torp Golem. I'm talking of a standard cruise missile fitted Golem which works really great on anything including insta-pop cruisers when fitted with a target painter. I don't like or use the torp golem its too limited and when compaired to the CNR (as wer are here), a cruise missile golem works best *no range issue). Just try it.

GGjita
Posted - 2010.07.20 05:17:00 - [7]
 

If you are going to use a cruise Golem then just sell your Golem as it is worthless. There is no reason whatsoever to ever use a cruise Golem, the CNR does it so much better it isn't even funny.

CanI haveyourstuff
Posted - 2010.07.20 05:50:00 - [8]
 

I'd go CNR

why?

Golem at its dps mode (sieges) has terrible range when it comes to blitzing.
Golem does have huge damage bonus per volly BUT... dont forget flares that NPC bs will shoot out, which kills one of your torps/cruises every volley since that ROF is so huge. Therefore you have massive damage nerf.

T1 ammo golem = 476 dps - 1 cruise when killed = 357 dps
T1 ammo CNR = 609 dps - 1 cruise (not always thanx to faster rof) = 609 or 522 dps.

Siege golem 1117 dps @ ~30 km BUT with rigs , up to 35 km
Siege CNR 1390 dps @ <27 km BUT with rigs they fly up to 42 km

So.. overall for blitzing, CNR beats golem from every angle!

Astald Ohtar
AtlantiA French Corp
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2010.07.20 12:53:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: CanI haveyourstuff

Siege golem 1117 dps @ ~30 km BUT with rigs , up to 35 km
Siege CNR 1390 dps @ <27 km BUT with rigs they fly up to 42 km



lol how about the + 1 mid slot and the tp bonus?

Terrutder
Posted - 2010.07.20 13:19:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Terrutder on 20/07/2010 13:20:55
Originally by: Astald Ohtar
Originally by: CanI haveyourstuff

Siege golem 1117 dps @ ~30 km BUT with rigs , up to 35 km
Siege CNR 1390 dps @ <27 km BUT with rigs they fly up to 42 km



lol how about the + 1 mid slot and the tp bonus?


lol that signature radius bonus is so weak. You have to use 2 tp-s if you want to get torp max dmg.
and when your torp gets shot down by defender missile then dps is gimped heavily.

Cani bla.. problably forgot about tp-s yes but cnr with even 1 tp and with alot more torps per volley still does better.

anyway.... cruise CNR is superior because all those lvl4-s have so much cruiser/bc/frig sized stuff

Optelius
Posted - 2010.07.20 13:56:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Optelius on 20/07/2010 14:04:13
Edited by: Optelius on 20/07/2010 14:01:29
Edited by: Optelius on 20/07/2010 13:59:26
Originally by: CanI haveyourstuff
I'd go CNR

why?

Golem at its dps mode (sieges) has terrible range when it comes to blitzing.
Golem does have huge damage bonus per volly BUT... dont forget flares that NPC bs will shoot out, which kills one of your torps/cruises every volley since that ROF is so huge. Therefore you have massive damage nerf.

T1 ammo golem = 476 dps - 1 cruise when killed = 357 dps
T1 ammo CNR = 609 dps - 1 cruise (not always thanx to faster rof) = 609 or 522 dps.

Siege golem 1117 dps @ ~30 km BUT with rigs , up to 35 km
Siege CNR 1390 dps @ <27 km BUT with rigs they fly up to 42 km

So.. overall for blitzing, CNR beats golem from every angle!


New Facts for you:
- Defenders launched by NPCs are based on the ammount of missiles you launch. So if you launch 7 cruise missiles, NPCs will most likey launch two defenders ... if u launch 4 torps, NPCs will most likely launch only 1.
It is still chance-based but overall there is no drawback for using torps ...
- Torps have more HP ... 1 defender is not enough to take out a torpedo --> u wont lose Torps due to defenders but u will lose cruise missiles.

People who think CNR has fewer problems with defenders coz it spits more missiles prolly still think they can fit ECCMs versus NPC-jamming...Rolling Eyes

- Siege Golem will reach exactly 45,9km with T1 ammo using T2 rigs + 5% imps which u should use, if u fly a 1.5 bil ship.
- Siege Golem has ~1100 dps at this range.
- With 2 faction TPs Siege Golem will take exactly 3 volleys for the heavy NPC Cruisers and almost all Battleships. We dont talk about the cheap cruisers ...
- With T2-Ammo, Golem will reaches exactly 66km, still at 900dps.
- While killing the NPCs u can tracktor everything within 40km and salvage.

Tbh ... I dont see, where a CNR could beat this!

What it takes is lots of skills, especially the TP supporting skills are very important.

PS: I know grouped weapons behave a bit different, but the fact remains ... defenders are no issue with torps.

Mad0ne
Caldari
Enterprise Estonia
Cult of War
Posted - 2010.07.20 15:18:00 - [12]
 

Interesting read.

but CNR still beats golem when it comes to blitzing.

knentil
Posted - 2010.07.20 16:47:00 - [13]
 

Golem is also alot more skill intensive than CNR.

So it depends how much time they want to sink into changing their skill training.

Tae Ren
Posted - 2010.07.21 00:43:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Optelius

People who think CNR has fewer problems with defenders coz it spits more missiles prolly still think they can fit ECCMs versus NPC-jamming...Rolling Eyes


Speakin of which, the other day I had a chat with one guy in a trade channel, and he said that from his experience the rats do indeed seem to jam you a little less if you fit eccm, and if you neut/nos them, they also rep less frequently. Now, I was understandably skeptical about his claims, but maybe I was wrong?

I mean, electronic warfare mods supposedly do work on Sleepers, could CCP have modified the normal rats a little bit too? I dotn remember any mention of this anywhere

Frozean
Posted - 2010.07.21 02:16:00 - [15]
 

This is my answer.

Both ships does NOT overwrite each other in term of roles
The best combination is to have BOTH a Cruise CNR AND a torp golem.

CNR Trumps the golem in cruise missiles. this is simply because CNR's role is to shoot 80-160km, hence making tractor ,TP bonus moot.
CNR also hold 3 rigs. two rigor I and one rigor II. Better then golem's
CNR has more effective Missile points due to rof bonus.


However, CNR will NEVER beat golem with torps.

Golem turn LOTS of two-hits into one hits, something CNR cant do!!. Cruisers, battlecruisers, certain frigates dies in one hit to the torp golem but not to a cruise/torp CNR.

Golem ALWAYS has two more painters then a CNR. One is for the extra midslot, one is for the shield boost bonus. Whatever tank you put in the CNR, i can copy that AND put two more painters.

Now Golem painters have 50-52% increase in sigrad compared to CNR's 38-40%. Now add it to having 2 more painters always, the golems TP's does a +120% increase in sig rad vs CNR's +40%. thats 3 times better.

Golem has tractor bonus. more isk is never bad. you can tractor stuff faster to like mission items.

Hence golem is a superior torp boat.

So you use CNR for sniping missions more then 80-160km
For example, the assault, unauthorize military presence, damsel(snipe only building)

and Golem for close range brawl
For example, damsel (clear all), the score, smuggler interception etc etc.


 

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