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Orgell Evaan
Minmatar
Tax Avoidance Through Alliterative Syndication
Posted - 2010.07.30 15:50:00 - [1771]
 

Thank you, CCP.

You've cured my online addiction.
I used to spend 4-6 hours a day and most of the weekend playing Internet Spaceships - now I check in when EveMon tells me that a skill is about done.
I used to live in 0.0, I used to roam, I used to go on POS kills, POS defenses, and help fly convoys full of highends from 0.0 to Highsec. Now I shipspin in highsec - there's no sense in jumping through a gate if I don't know if I'll even come out the other side.
I'm still a subscriber, because I keep hoping there'll be a reason to log in for more than five minutes at a time. That the 60M SPs and counting will be worth anything. That there will be a reason to fly a barge. Or finally fly the Nag I trained for eight months ago.

I keep hoping. But I'm not hopeful.

Valadeya uthanaras
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.30 15:59:00 - [1772]
 

I will go with the general player concensus

In the last year, we hardly saw anything that improved the player experience from feature point of view because all the nice addition that were made SINCE dominion have been problematic:


Dominion added nice fleet feature and a new 0.0 territory holding system

The new sov holding system did the complete opposite of what was hopped (conquering space is now near impossible)

The change in game code made cake walk random fight (200 people) go to almost unplayable unless system are asked to be reinfoirced 24 hours before the fight

Many balance issues , rolfket, assault frig ... were left untouched and are not plannet to be adjusted for ....a long time.

to this day near nothing was done to adjust the new sov system so it can reach its planned purpose ( and so many idea posted by so many peolple are still going down the drain)

Lag is still making most fight unplayable, this after more than 1 year since the release




Now lets compare with apocrypha:

Introduced wormhole, t3 ships and many balance change

T3 and wormhole came with many balance issues and problem that were fixed very fast aftyer the release ( within 2 month), and are now great features that are widely used, the implantation of wormhole while a new feature went relativly smoothly

Change in balance, like stealth bomber, that were given a second life after a few try, error and feed back from people trying them on SISI after various iteration, they are now widely used and loved by the player base



Result:

People are tired of new feature that arent working or arent really usefull ( PI and sov) while they are mostly asking for balance fix (lolkets and Assault ships) and are getting nothign that might seem very interresting in the next expansion ...

sorry but I think most people dont buy in the full body avatar thing ...cause everyone thought it would have been put in the game 2 years ago, wasnt, and the idea was dropped to polish the game instead ... and gave a really nice result

I mean the balancing around moon goo (witch is not really complete with the ridicolous price of tech ... unlesss you really dont care) and most ships/system ,titan, supercarrier, bombers, arty .. HAVE DONE WAY MORE TO ENHANCE THE GAME than any of the new feature released!

So please, consider your player base for once, even if you called for a "delay in incarna release" most of us would understand if that release, instead of releasing more new feature .... would resolve so many issues that were described by CMS and are discused each days on this forum



my 2 cent

Valadeya

paying for eve in hope it get fixed soon ( and training skills of course ...Rolling Eyes)

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.30 16:11:00 - [1773]
 

The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.

Thorvik
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.07.30 16:50:00 - [1774]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.



Quoting to emphasize excellent post. Well written, concise and on point.

Rokkit Kween
Posted - 2010.07.30 16:58:00 - [1775]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.


This +10

Durnin Stormbrow
Posted - 2010.07.30 17:04:00 - [1776]
 

Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 30/07/2010 17:07:00
I'll keep checking back hoping for change, but in it's current form I have little to no interest in spending the time to play, let alone paying for where CCP wants to take EvE.

@CCP: Please let EvE live up to its potential.
Focus on resolving core gameplay issues.
Complete the features you've added.
Don't add features that do not improve the core gameplay experience.

Subscription Status: Cancelled

Reasons given:
Dev focus on features that do not improve core gameplay.
Patches laying groundwork (it is good groundwork) for future iteration that doesn't happen.

FW is a mess of bugs & exploits.
Sov war mechanics encourage blobing tactics that game performance cannot support.
Missing treaties.
PI: the Jury is still out on PI, but as implemented it does not support the intended purpose of EvE players paying Dusties to fight over worlds.
Gameplay & balance issues that remain after years of player complaints. Rockets are the posterchild, but there are too many others to list.

To all, o7

Sastiquanto
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.30 17:22:00 - [1777]
 

Edited by: Sastiquanto on 30/07/2010 17:25:33
Skip all feature enhancements and get the damn lag fixed.

Gotta be better off with a smoothly running game, with a loyal playerbase, rather than a crappy game, stuffed with lag, and angry pod-pilots ?

Sure, i understand the need for worldwide recognition in the game development society you'll get from DUST, but is it worth the consequences you get from a poor quality gameplay ? Don't think so, cause that will degrade the basic value of DUST, and therefore end up more or less worthless tbh...

Best way to get known, is human correspondance... wich, as is now, is very negative.

So, switch around your setup:
13 teams on ingame improvement.
3 teams on DUST / etc.

Yes... i DO THINK that every single plot will understand, and embrase, a delayed Incarna release. Aslong as it's beneficial to game mechanics, gameplay and performance.

Just to quote my old man: If you build a house on a rotten foundation, the house will collapse.

Shinzann
Dead poets society
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2010.07.30 17:55:00 - [1778]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.


That pretty much says it right there.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.07.30 18:09:00 - [1779]
 

Cross-poasted from the "Lol, vote for us" thread:

Originally by: CCP Atlas
... We have added a stop-gap measure in place which keeps nodes from dying during these high stress scenarios and we have some more permanent solutions in the pipes that will be deployed over the next few weeks....


Posted on 2010.02.04 12:03:48


Originally by: CCP Numba Wun PR Agency
'With the help of the EVE community on the test server, we believe we are close to some investigative breakthroughs and will continue to relay any progress via our developer blogs.'


Posted on Thursday 29-Jul-2010 4:05 PM

Credibility <------------------------------------------------------------------------> CCP

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2010.07.30 18:25:00 - [1780]
 

Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow


Subscription Status: Cancelled

Reasons given:
Dev focus on features that do not improve core gameplay.
Patches laying groundwork (it is good groundwork) for future iteration that doesn't happen.

To all, o7


Usually I try to be positive and would never explicitly insult another capsuleer, but you sir, are an a**hole. ...As are a lot of the people posting in this thread. I for one want more features. I have a lot of friends who can't get into eve right now because those of you who somehow got it into your head that there even IS a "core gameplay" happen to be the loudest, and thus those most indexed when my friends try to read about what EvE is all about. There are a lot of ways to play this game, and my small gang piracy and ninja looting isn't affected by any of the bugs your are talking about.

Think about that. There are people who play eve and have a flawless gaming experience right now.

Durnin, I guess your parents just convinced you that you are more special than you are, but not everything is about you. I want to see incarna implemented. It WILL bring in a ton of new people and introduce a lot of new game play styles. Dust looks awesome and I'm looking forward to that as well... (I figure I'll be over Halo: Reach by the time Dust is out). I want more people in the game. I want my friends who are still playing modded versions of freelancer to drop that crap and fly my wing in 0.0. I want to see my girlfriend stop playing WoW because it's stupid, and get her a** behind my station bar buying ships and rigging the gambling tables. I want to charge my little brother and his army of FPS friends with force-ably taking a few planets in a system I have my eye on. None of that is going to happen if EvE just stagnates. Far from grow, the EvE community would dwindle... I've talked to a lot of my friends about this, and they will be pumped when all CCP has planned comes to fruition. They will join up. They are just a little skeptical about whether or not its even going to happen, since we've been hearing about ambulation for so long and nothing has happened yet.

I haven't even been playing EvE since the beginning... but I have been playing for a decent while. When I started I would get stuck in gates ALL THE TIME. I had to petition a GM to let me jump! I had thousands and thousands of bookmarks organized into folders by region... do you remember the lameness of "instas"? Than that POS bug that let some people cheat their way into hundreds of billions of isk, and than there was that instance where you would appear to warp away from NPCs and be on a gate, but no... you were actually still with the NPCs and they killed you. The point is EvE has ALWAYS had a fair number of bugs. That's just the trade off you have to deal with when you demand your game be cutting edge all the time. The bugs and annoyances of the past have been elegantly fixed for the most part. This new round of fleet lag, rocket problems, and FW are just the latest in a long line of bugs that will be dealt with in time. CCP is posting pretty freaking detailed accounts of what they are doing to fight lag. I think they've made good progress.

As I said earlier. I'm not even affected by these current bugs. I blow up helpless industrials and raid the loot like the cowardly pirate I am. In it for the isk YARRRR!!. I ninja your kills and jack the loot. I have a lot of fun doing it, and I never have a problem (unless of course I get blown up which does happen frequently). In that context all this emo rage / *cries + cancels account* I'm seeing is simply silly and immature, and I would normally leave it at that. My concern right now is that CCP IS listening... I truly hope they don't put the future on hold for a few whiners that have never even had to petition being stuck in a gate...

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.30 18:32:00 - [1781]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.


To be honest, this post is the one that CCP needs to respond to.

Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2010.07.30 18:35:00 - [1782]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.


And here it is, the post that sums everything up, without any drama, whines or tears, straight and to the point !

/tiphat !

Durnin Stormbrow
Posted - 2010.07.30 19:11:00 - [1783]
 

Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 30/07/2010 19:24:48
Originally by: Gogela
Durnin, I guess your parents just convinced you that you are more special than you are, but not everything is about you.

Far from it. I have no illusions that my opinion is any more important than the opinion of any other subscriber. Two days from now when my sub actually expires, my opinion will matter even less than yours since I won't be paying for what EvE is, let alone what it will become.

If you enjoy the game as it is, then enjoy. I've never suggested that you or any other player should leave the game, stop asking for features that you want, or implied that anyone is playing the game wrong. By the same token, I feel that CCP should be aware of what I want from EvE; or more specificly, why I'm leaving EvE.

All I have said is that I don't like how things have progressed over the last few expansions, and I'm not interested in paying for where CCP Zulu says they're going. If I wanted to play an FPS, I'd play an FPS. If I didn't like the game that EvE was 5 years ago, I wouldn't have an account today.

When SOE stopped providing a game that I want to play, I moved on. What I'm doing is nothing more than that. One player moving on.

If you feel that makes me an a-hole, so be it. <shrug>

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2010.07.30 19:50:00 - [1784]
 

Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
If you feel that makes me an a-hole, so be it. <shrug>


Durnin... I'm sorry I called you an a-hole. Everything else I said stands. There are a lot of ways to play this game. I think mining looks helluh boring, and I've never done it, as an example. I used to like exploration and doing hacking and arch plexes... but when the market evened out on the components I lost interest and did other things. All I'm trying to get across is that you don't have to participate in any new feature. If something is too buggy, like giant fleet battles right now, there is plenty of other things to do until it is inevitably fixed. It's that diversity of game play that makes this such a robust game. Demanding CCP limit additional lateral in gaming styles in favor of one specific style thats currently buggy is counterproductive, since the overall play of the game is pretty good and there is so much to do. Increasing "what there is to do" adds options for players when their one specific nitch ends up going sideways... I think its important to bare in mind that invariably things WILL go sideways as overall system complexity increases... and that CCP will address those issues in due time. I just base that on all the things that have been fixed in the past... and there have been a LOT of fixes.

javer
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.30 20:50:00 - [1785]
 

Originally by: Thorvik
Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.



Quoting to emphasize excellent post. Well written, concise and on point.


nothing more to be said than spot on and i sure hope ccp take it into consideration

Cinori Aluben
Minmatar
Gladiators of Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.30 22:24:00 - [1786]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.

Amen!
Originally by: Orgell Evaan
Thank you, CCP.
You've cured my online addiction.
I used to spend 4-6 hours a day and most of the weekend playing Internet Spaceships - now I check in when EveMon tells me that a skill is about done.
I used to live in 0.0, I used to roam, I used to go on POS kills, POS defenses, and help fly convoys full of highends from 0.0 to Highsec. Now I shipspin in highsec - there's no sense in jumping through a gate if I don't know if I'll even come out the other side....I keep hoping. But I'm not hopeful.

I feel ya buddy.

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.07.31 00:54:00 - [1787]
 

Originally by: Gogela
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
If you feel that makes me an a-hole, so be it. <shrug>


Durnin... I'm sorry I called you an a-hole. Everything else I said stands. There are a lot of ways to play this game. I think mining looks helluh boring, and I've never done it, as an example. I used to like exploration and doing hacking and arch plexes... but when the market evened out on the components I lost interest and did other things. All I'm trying to get across is that you don't have to participate in any new feature. If something is too buggy, like giant fleet battles right now, there is plenty of other things to do until it is inevitably fixed. It's that diversity of game play that makes this such a robust game. Demanding CCP limit additional lateral in gaming styles in favor of one specific style thats currently buggy is counterproductive, since the overall play of the game is pretty good and there is so much to do. Increasing "what there is to do" adds options for players when their one specific nitch ends up going sideways... I think its important to bare in mind that invariably things WILL go sideways as overall system complexity increases... and that CCP will address those issues in due time. I just base that on all the things that have been fixed in the past... and there have been a LOT of fixes.


Are you for real? If the feature is broken, it shouldn't be released in the first place! And if you break it after deploying it, you fix it OR you don't patch the game in such a way that the feature breaks.


And i have to comment on your previous post, where you said Incarna will bring additional gamestyles and A TON OF PEOPLE.

Right...care to elaborate on what gamestyles exactly? Docking and staying docked? Watching paint dry in a virtual world? You think Incarna is going to bring you a world of goodies, it won't. The past is proof of that. What happens when people undock? Missions are boring (lvl1s and 2s are decent, a little bit of action at least), mining is boring, pvp is camping for hours to kill one guy...how exciting!

Oh man, CCP talking about Walking In Stations as if it's some technical challenge never heard of before. 3D games have been out since the 90s!!!

Adam 5trange
Posted - 2010.07.31 02:11:00 - [1788]
 

I'm not upset that you lied to me CCP, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.

Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.07.31 04:39:00 - [1789]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.

EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.


This

Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Posted - 2010.07.31 05:20:00 - [1790]
 

CCP made the point at CSM 5 that they dedicate more cash to updates than any other company. The baffling part was, on what?

Does this huge expenditure include Incarna, Dust, etc....

IE **** we could care less about when we'd really rather have dominion style gameplay back where we could actually fight with 1500 people in system, less not 15.

Should we also care about walking is station when there are so many currently borked, ****ty, and useless game mechanics in game.

to list a few:


Sov warfare
Blasters
Rockets
Black ops BS
Teir 1 BC's
Tech 1 Destroyers
Railguns
Mission balancing
General ship balances
Bomber balancing
LAG
T3 rebalancing and the 5th subsystem
Capital warfare and swarming and supercapital proliferation.
Cyno jammers
Jump bridges
Lowsec space
The removal of a ****load of isk sinks with the introduction of PI


I mean ffs CCP, you brag about the 60k accounts you had logged into eve a while back. But more than ever, players are only sticking around because a few ******s and newbs want to catch up fast and sell gametime cards to the rest of us. I personally haven't paid for any of my 3 accounts for 9 months now. And I used to loath GTC purchasing with isk. But now, I refuse to actually play if I have to pay for this PoS

Trechlok
Posted - 2010.07.31 05:24:00 - [1791]
 

Im sure ccp can see most posts here are asking they fix the problems with the game not allocate resources to consol game development.
It seems that was the plan a long time ago & with the introduction of PI (pos sunset)
was the nail in the coffin for my eve playing days as this account goes off in a few days & 1st time ive logged in in over 2 weeks,i only logged in to see if there was a patch lol

There was a catalyst for me though as well as the PI (shaft pc players)
and that was fleet lag & ccp admiting "oh yeah you lost your ship cos you could not controll it due to our code not responding to the client because of Fleet Lag" & no were not replaceing your ship".

So GFY CCP.Exclamation

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.31 06:45:00 - [1792]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
15 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the Transparent™ response with great interest.

Drifnir
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2010.07.31 10:20:00 - [1793]
 

Threadnought: Ongoing
Cohesive CCP response: None, barring a few good devs who actually seem to care.

Frustratioin: Growing

Loss of respect for CCP: Immense

Dust514: Meh.

WoD: Hell yeah i want it. Not at the expense of a decent Eve experience, though.

Risk of unsubbing: Unlikely at this point. However, in 3 months, and if there's still no word from CCP other than ironically polished PR bull manure: Overwhelming.

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
Posted - 2010.07.31 11:14:00 - [1794]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
15 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the Transparent™ response with great interest.


Is this one of those calendars where you pose for a picture on each page? Wink



They've clearly put a lot of work in to trying to structure the company with all this scrum business but structure counts for nothing if employees have a different perception of their game from the customers.

When eve started we accepted the bugs because eve was unique, CCP employees who've been there from the start will have spent years working in an atmosphere where the mantra was "of course there's going to be bugs on TQ, it's because we're pushing the frontiers of single shard technology".

That mantra seems to have become ingrained in CCP psychology while the player base has matured and changed, I suspect CCP know this and that's why they started using the word excellence, however players have their own mantra used for judging the validity of someone's words - pics or it didn't happen.

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.07.31 12:06:00 - [1795]
 

I just find it funny how they toot the code metrics. Code is more bugfree than ever.

First of all, how do you know that? If you find a bug, you squash it but bugs are notorious hide-and-seek types. So saying this code has 10% bugs is impossible since you can't know exactly how many bugs there are...

Another thing. Of course theres less bugs when the code is halved, releasing half of the planned content.

And most MMOs release in a year the amount of content Eve has done in 7 years. Spend most on expansions of all MMOs? Really? Does 80% of the monies go to coffee?

Tlar Sanqua
Gallente
Gallente Defence Initiative
Posted - 2010.07.31 12:59:00 - [1796]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.


This and

Originally by: Malcanis
15 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the Transparent™ response with great interest.


This.

Jiks
Caldari
Prophets of Doom
Posted - 2010.07.31 13:46:00 - [1797]
 

The last few posts have been very much to the point.

I hope CCP see the sheer scale of this threadnaught and realize that that the communinity is very concerned about their planned course and do something before the ship really hits the rocks. I've avoiding posting in this thread till now as I was too annoyed to say anything constructive and many others were saying what needed to be said - dedicate more resources to supporting the game we pay to play. Even basic server stability has been arwful recently, please sort it out, CCP!

*Deletes lengthy rant about Zuluparks previous activities and carriers*

Stabin
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.31 16:23:00 - [1798]
 

Edited by: Stabin on 31/07/2010 17:56:31
Originally by: Tlar Sanqua
Originally by: Abrazzar
The root of the issue here isn't the lag or the bugs or the aim towards a space theme park with incarna and dust.

The issue is with the inflexible distribution of development resources, leaving only a minor amount to fix the broken parts existing right now for adding more new features that will only add to the pile.

The issue is with CCP on one side claiming they value the CSM and on the other hand failing to have even a single developer dedicated to the ever growing backlog of accepted CSM propositions.

The issue is with leaving old features half finished or bare bones and then jumping to the next, falling for their own hype how unpolished shallow gameplay is yielding more profits than creating a whole, deep, coherent and immersive gaming experience.

The issue is with CCP throwing up smoke and mirrors from the PR team to distract from the issues at hand in an attempt to make the players belief the small fixes they're putting in are the solution to all those issues.


CCP needs to rethink its development strategy. Right now it's doing its best to overextend itself and have the game fall apart at its core, overladen with weak features that cannot sustain interest of the new players they hope to attract. It's like trying to keep someone with a belly wound alive by pouring in more blood to make up for the loss from the wound. It won't help if you don't stitch him up.

Right now, every core feature and profession can use several more iterations to add more detail, variety, options and choices to them. That does not mean, cutting something off and replacing it with something more shiny but equally shallow.

Every feature in EVE should be fleshed out deep enough that you can take the average WoW-tard and drown him in it.


Until CCP reevaluates its strategies and takes a less self-destructive course, I will stay away from EVE. Words and promises are not enough, actions speak louder than any marketing hype can. EVE has so much potential, I hate to see it all go to waste like that.


This and

Originally by: Malcanis
15 days since this devblog, and the ensuing player response.

Still awaiting the Transparent™ response with great interest.


This.


One thing is certain. CCP will emerge from this as a company that has a reputation for taking the concerns of it's veteran players seriously, or it will not.

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2010.08.01 01:35:00 - [1799]
 

Originally by: Tarasina
Are you for real? If the feature is broken, it shouldn't be released in the first place! And if you break it after deploying it, you fix it OR you don't patch the game in such a way that the feature breaks.

And i have to comment on your previous post, where you said Incarna will bring additional gamestyles and A TON OF PEOPLE.

Right...care to elaborate on what gamestyles exactly? Docking and staying docked? Watching paint dry in a virtual world? You think Incarna is going to bring you a world of goodies, it won't. The past is proof of that. What happens when people undock? Missions are boring (lvl1s and 2s are decent, a little bit of action at least), mining is boring, pvp is camping for hours to kill one guy...how exciting!


Sounds like you suffer a lack of imagination. There's plenty to do... but I'm not here to train you. Stick to mining I guess. In answer to "If the feature is broken, it shouldn't be released in the first place!" all I have to say is some things are hard to see defects in until it's been tested by the community. There have always been things that were broken in EvE. Always. If we waited until everything was "perfected" there would be no game. I'm not saying there's no room for improvement... I'm just saying it's good to add new stuff and shake up the universe a bit from time to time. Personally, I'm looking forward to starting a bar slash gambling den slash pleasure hub if that's doable. I guess we will see. ...but relax dude... it's a game.
Rolling Eyes

fuckfacemillionare
Posted - 2010.08.01 03:29:00 - [1800]
 

Originally by: Gogela
Originally by: Tarasina
Are you for real? If the feature is broken, it shouldn't be released in the first place! And if you break it after deploying it, you fix it OR you don't patch the game in such a way that the feature breaks.

And i have to comment on your previous post, where you said Incarna will bring additional gamestyles and A TON OF PEOPLE.

Right...care to elaborate on what gamestyles exactly? Docking and staying docked? Watching paint dry in a virtual world? You think Incarna is going to bring you a world of goodies, it won't. The past is proof of that. What happens when people undock? Missions are boring (lvl1s and 2s are decent, a little bit of action at least), mining is boring, pvp is camping for hours to kill one guy...how exciting!


Sounds like you suffer a lack of imagination. There's plenty to do... but I'm not here to train you. Stick to mining I guess. In answer to "If the feature is broken, it shouldn't be released in the first place!" all I have to say is some things are hard to see defects in until it's been tested by the community. There have always been things that were broken in EvE. Always. If we waited until everything was "perfected" there would be no game. I'm not saying there's no room for improvement... I'm just saying it's good to add new stuff and shake up the universe a bit from time to time. Personally, I'm looking forward to starting a bar slash gambling den slash pleasure hub if that's doable. I guess we will see. ...but relax dude... it's a game.
Rolling Eyes


Actually the community tested many of the "features" introduced on SiSi and said "please wait/refine these, they are not done!" Your whole statement is saying "leave half the game alone, play this part!"

No one is asking for perfect either. They are asking for working and functional. Just because you enjoy one fraction of the game that works doesn't mean that the whole game should be left to rot.


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