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knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.15 14:29:00 - [1]
 

Hello,

I'm at that point where i'm thinking about capital ships and which one's to aim for.

I really don't know much about them other than some eft warrior experiments, but eft never shows the whole picture.

It won't take me long to learn the skills to fly Gallente or Caldari capitals but are either of those worth training for or would it be better to go down another route and think about the Amarr or Minmatar capital ships?

I'd like to get a broad range of opinions before investing time into these skills.

Ninetails o'Cat
League of Super Evil
Posted - 2010.07.15 14:32:00 - [2]
 

Generally, if you have to ask questions like this, you're wasting your time training for a cap ship. If you know what you want from a cap ship though, then you're ready.

Klazktrknuitzksalikamono
Posted - 2010.07.15 14:44:00 - [3]
 

You asking questions like this means you are not ready for capital ships.

Stay out of them.

Shatner19
Posted - 2010.07.15 14:52:00 - [4]
 

here is the general consensus on capital ships:

carriers:
archon: supports bs and capital ships well. Remote energy transfers, help cap ships jump out faster.
Chimera: pos repper, best burst tank, but with capital blobs, that isnt helpful - you want ehp, and thats the archons role.
thanatos: pve carrier, if there was ever one - does most damage out of all the carriers, but doesnt have the tank of the chimera and archon.
Nidhoggur: suicide carrier - best logistics platform. Has the best bonus out of the entire carrier lineup but has the worst tank and ehp.

dreadnaughts:
Revelation: best all around - insta swap - near infinite ammo usage. best tank also.
moros: best for station camping: drone damage bonus can take care of sub caps easily. guns suffer from general hybrid maladies.
naglfar: Highest dps dread, massive sp train involve, lower ehp tank than moros or rev. can shield/armor tank - so tank is flexible with general fleet layouts.
pheonix: missile platform - can only hit other caps, towers, supercaps with full effectiveness but has highest alpha damage - shield tanks, which is hard to fit on most cap fleets ive seen.

Cosmic Rainbow
Posted - 2010.07.15 15:35:00 - [5]
 

You havent stated what your SP is like, or what races you have flown etc, but I have seen one trend with some newer players which you want to avoid, which is the:

Straight to capital ships!

Every player Ive talked to who has chosen this route regrets it. Make sure you can fly some sub caps at T2 levels in order to participate in gangs/corp/alliance work at the non-cap level. Cap fleets can be quite dry and boring, and dont happen every day. Thus you can spend a lot of your time twiddling your thumbs or playing the ship spinny game in stations.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.15 16:50:00 - [6]
 



Originally by: Cosmic Rainbow
You havent stated what your SP is like, or what races you have flown etc, but I have seen one trend with some newer players which you want to avoid, which is the:

Straight to capital ships!

Every player Ive talked to who has chosen this route regrets it. Make sure you can fly some sub caps at T2 levels in order to participate in gangs/corp/alliance work at the non-cap level. Cap fleets can be quite dry and boring, and dont happen every day. Thus you can spend a lot of your time twiddling your thumbs or playing the ship spinny game in stations.


No its not like that "Straight to cap ships". I'm not a complete n00b ;). The idea of this thread was to get peoples opinions on cap ships so I can spend my SP's more efficiently.

I have 45m SP, can fly almost all Gallente and Caldari T2 ships apart from capitals.

The reason for my question is the cost in skill time and the value of spending a short amount of time getting in Caldari or Gallente Caps or if its worth the additional time of learning Amarr or Minmatar ships up to caps as well as the additional skill cost of learning the relevent weapon systems which is significantly longer as my Amarr related skills are limited to T1 cruisers and my minmatar skills don't exist yet.

I might not have the required personal experience to start using them (nor do I want to put that kind of investment up in a fight right now) but it will shape longer term goals which I'm starting to think about as I PVP more.

Cosmic Rainbow
Posted - 2010.07.15 17:33:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Cosmic Rainbow on 15/07/2010 17:34:45
That does help clarify a bit.

The next question you have to ask yourself I think however is:

Carrier or Dread?

I would tackle that question first before picking a specific race. Last I was in 0.0 fleet wars (a couple months after Dominion was released) Dreads were certainly being used more and more for direct combat, while carriers tended to be more support/logistics vessels.

Since Im not a capital expert, and my knowledge is some what dated (re: Titan DD change which as I understand has altered fleet combat and capital felet combat some what) I'll let someone with more experience clarify the roles better between Carrier vs Dread.

That info however should help you decide whether you invest your training time in weaponry vs fighters.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.16 10:38:00 - [8]
 

The weapons would be pretty easy to learn for any Caldari cap, for Gallente it would take a little more time but I fighters won't take long as I have all the prerequisite skills already learnt.

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.07.16 11:00:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Hello,

I'm at that point where i'm thinking about capital ships and which one's to aim for.

I really don't know much about them other than some eft warrior experiments, but eft never shows the whole picture.

It won't take me long to learn the skills to fly Gallente or Caldari capitals but are either of those worth training for or would it be better to go down another route and think about the Amarr or Minmatar capital ships?

I'd like to get a broad range of opinions before investing time into these skills.


I'll ask the obvious question: Are you in a large 0.0 Corp/Alliance that actually fields Capital Fleets? If so, they can probably tell you what they need and what works in their fleets. If no, then this is mostly an academic exercise as there are few opportunities for solo cap use. I'd suggest getting a Carrier if you must have one, as at least you can use it for logistics and such.

Sonya Kranz
Posted - 2010.07.16 11:11:00 - [10]
 

From what i understand its only useful to train capitals like dread and carrier if you are (regularly) in nullsec or lowsec.
if you are not, dont bother with them since theyll only be gathering dust.

if you meet the above criteria though, i guess its defenitely worth it, and theres alot more useful adive up there then i can give :)

Corvac
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.16 13:06:00 - [11]
 

If you do choose to go for capitals, go for Gallente, as you say you are close to that and Caldari. Avoid Caldari at all cost.

DarkKnight21
Posted - 2010.07.16 13:26:00 - [12]
 

i wouldn't say that. caldari is not totally bad.

Belid Hagen
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.07.16 14:04:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: DarkKnight21
i wouldn't say that. caldari is not totally bad.


if by "not totally bad" you actually mean "the worst option possible", then yes you are correct.

omgevenmoarfreemoniez
Posted - 2010.07.16 14:16:00 - [14]
 

I am not going to help you learn about capitals, because if you want to learn about capitals you should know about capitals already. What?

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.07.16 14:54:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: steave435 on 16/07/2010 14:54:07
I held a guest class on caps in eve uni a few months back. It's the only class I've ever done, so may not be perfect, but should give you at least a basic introduction.

Koshs SC
Posted - 2010.07.16 14:56:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Belid Hagen
Originally by: DarkKnight21
i wouldn't say that. caldari is not totally bad.


if by "not totally bad" you actually mean "the worst option possible", then yes you are correct.


depends what you're doing.

i wouldn't trade my chimera for any other carrier atm.

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.07.16 20:32:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: omgevenmoarfreemoniez
I am not going to help you learn about capitals, because if you want to learn about capitals you should know about capitals already. What?


Think of it like you are walking down the street and pass a bank. Parked outside is an armored car that is dropping off some money. You say to one of the guards "Hey, that's awesome... Where do you get an armored car? Is there a special license?" The answer is you don't need an armored car!

Likewise, capital ships serve very specific purposes. Either your corporation tells you "Hey, we need caps, so get one!" or you figure it out for yourself because there is a specific purpose that you have in mind.

Bodega Cat
Posted - 2010.07.16 20:39:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Klazktrknuitzksalikamono
You asking questions like this means you are not ready for capital ships.

Stay out of them.


If you can't answer questions about capital ships in a capital ship thread.

Stay out of them.

Smk56
Posted - 2010.07.16 21:03:00 - [19]
 

Capitals are solutions to very specific problems and for the most part perform poorly outside of their one intended function. These guys may sound rude but they are trying to help you. Capitals are HUGE time and isk sinks. You should be absolutely sure that you need one before you start training for it.

Ansol
Posted - 2010.07.16 21:14:00 - [20]
 

Alternatively, since this is a game, you can do whatever you darn well please as long as you consider that anywhere you fly that carrier/dread, is a place where you can and eventually will be killed. Aside from that, you are a consenting adult (everyone on the internet is over 18. I checked), and can do as you please.

Alternatively: I was trying to justify training to a capital ship and I can't really find a reason without being in a lowsec/nullsec corp. :(

Fritzl's Daughter
Posted - 2010.07.16 23:58:00 - [21]
 

Dreads are boring, only get one if its funded.

Archon is the carrier you are looking for.

Marcus Henik
Posted - 2010.07.17 11:29:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
Alternatively: I was trying to justify training to a capital ship and I can't really find a reason without being in a lowsec/nullsec corp. :(
wormhole defense boat. nothing firms up a systms defenses like a few carriers, and having a dred or 2 in the hanger means you dont have to worry about your avg ninja pos

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.17 15:24:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Smk56
Capitals are solutions to very specific problems and for the most part perform poorly outside of their one intended function. These guys may sound rude but they are trying to help you. Capitals are HUGE time and isk sinks. You should be absolutely sure that you need one before you start training for it.


Yeah, unfortunately the default setting for allot of these forum guys isn't helpful but either belittling or rude. EVE seems prone to allot of snobbery, more so than other MMO's i've had exposure too.

To put it in perspective, I could effectivly use a Caldari cap in 28 days so its hardly a massive time sink for that. Its around 75 days for a Gallente capital and about 90 for minmatar or amarr capitals, which are more time eaters. Its more about effectivly using that time. I might as well go down the caldari route as most of tht 28 days is adv. spaceship command V. Then its just a case of BS V for those other races and the capital weaponary.

Phantom Circuit
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.17 22:05:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Phantom Circuit on 17/07/2010 22:05:32
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Originally by: Smk56
Capitals are solutions to very specific problems and for the most part perform poorly outside of their one intended function. These guys may sound rude but they are trying to help you. Capitals are HUGE time and isk sinks. You should be absolutely sure that you need one before you start training for it.


Yeah, unfortunately the default setting for allot of these forum guys isn't helpful but either belittling or rude. EVE seems prone to allot of snobbery, more so than other MMO's i've had exposure too.

To put it in perspective, I could effectivly use a Caldari cap in 28 days so its hardly a massive time sink for that. Its around 75 days for a Gallente capital and about 90 for minmatar or amarr capitals, which are more time eaters. Its more about effectivly using that time. I might as well go down the caldari route as most of tht 28 days is adv. spaceship command V. Then its just a case of BS V for those other races and the capital weaponary.


The reason that most people have that mindset around here is simply because the question is asked so often and there is no specific answer to it.

It really is up for you and your corp/alliance to decide if they need another capital pilot, not a forum alt.

If you want to take the 500 mill to drop on a Carrier book if you're just interested in being able to fly it, by all means do so, but the person who said that caps are specific tools for specific jobs was entirely correct, and we honestly have no clue if you're doing anything that requires a capital.

My order of favorite Carriers in low sec is

1) Archon
2) Niddy
3) Thanny
4) Chimera

If that helps answer your question.


 

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