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blankseplocked [Proposal] - Group actions for Planetary items
 
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2010.07.14 22:54:00 - [1]
 

This comes from an idea off Market Discussion forum.

A way to group Planetary Structures to perform the same actions on each structure in the group. E.G. You have all your Heavy Metal extractors in a Group, You click on that group and tell it to perform the five hour extraction cycle. Then each Extractor in that Group scans the planet, and selects the five hour extraction cycle. This would be for all structures and all operations from setting the schematic on processors to routing materials. However, the main focus would be Extractors, being able to group them to perform the same actions all at once, is highly desired by those that regularly tend to their planets.

On a typical player in high-sec you could have upwards of 12 Extractors per planet. The quickest way to perform a new cycle is to double click the extractor then double click the cycle you want to perform. This means you currently have to click your mouse near 50 times per planet just to perform Extraction. I recently counted how many clicks I have to do in order to refresh my Planets, 274 clicks later I was done. This could be replaced with as little as 30 clicks.

To prevent this from being too macro-able, the implementation of a captcha is one suggestion. Since this is EVE and fully animated you could create a very effective very difficult for OCR to work out captcha, rotating static/letters or changing colors etc.

The captcha is just to address the "easy to macro" implementations of having groups. If CCP believed the captcha is not required then that's perfectly fine, it's just an idea to address that one aspect of the proposal.

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks

Posted - 2010.07.14 22:55:00 - [2]
 

Supporting the idea.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2010.07.14 23:27:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Shar Tegral on 14/07/2010 23:36:43
Make the command center actually useful, link groups to/through it.
Originally by: SencneS
The captcha is just to address the "easy to macro" implementations of having groups.

My suggestion, instead of having the command center centered when entering planet view... add a slight randomizer to it. Without being able to predict where center is, all the time, it should be near to impossible for macro programming to function.

Could we also ask for these things as well:

1 - No more survey for each hourly selection.

It's unnecessary to know this each & every time. Just have a time frame selector and if we want to know how much that extractor extracts a totally separate button.

2 - Remove the rotating building images.

They are pretty but add no substantive value to Eve (though I'm sure Dust is another thing) but they do cloud up visuals. For instance, in a tight pack layout it is impossible to see links from a southward placed facility to a neighboring northerly one.

3 - Extractor status displays need improving.

For instance, when it is doing nothing it should flash like a processor doing nothing. It should not flash when it has been given a job but not submitted yet. And could we stop the rotating timer for each extraction and just set it for the overall depletion? Also, instead of going from min to max on the circle perhaps inverse countdown as well?

Be nice(est) if these were options tbh but any direction here would be good.

Edit note: I forgot these additional thoughts.

mental maverick
Percussive Diplomacy

Posted - 2010.07.14 23:29:00 - [4]
 

Cant believe im doing this Embarassed Very Happy but its really not a bad idea, so here goes...

Oh, and for those that are going to come in here saying "Oh noes, a captcha!": If combined with the grouping of extractors you will still save a crap load of time, believe me.

Quantessa
Posted - 2010.07.14 23:40:00 - [5]
 

Hmm, it would mean that you could click once per half hour per planet if you have all the same type of extraction there.

So a set up like:

Planets 1-5
6 extractors, 12 basic factories

Planet 6
18 advanced factories making P2.

5 clicks per 30 minutes and collecting in a hauler once per day for a vast amount of P2 per alt. 3 alts per account.

This would radically change the market, there would be no reason not to set cycles as short as possible for many people.

I think it would be good to separate the capcha idea from the I hate clicking idea. They really are unrelated concepts.

The capcha I hope isn't needed because CCP can control macro farmers through some clever secret method. (I'm so optimistic!).

The clicking thing is the only reason the market isn't swamped. P4s and P3s are already plummeting. P2s are only cheap because most of them used to be NPC goods and there are vast stockpiles. I really don't think clicking is a big problem except for people who are trying to run 8 PI alts on 5 hour schedules. The longer schedules are there for a reason.

IceFyre S18
Zulu Labs
Zulu People
Posted - 2010.07.14 23:47:00 - [6]
 

Great idea, puts a end to bots.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2010.07.14 23:57:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Quantessa
Hmm, it would mean that you could click once per half hour per planet if you have all the same type of extraction there. <snip> The longer schedules are there for a reason.
The problem with this idea, or this philosophy, is that it supports something that is intrinsically bad in the guise of something good.

Two reasons this is bad: Repetitive Stress Damage and Handicap Accessibility.

Now, before anyone goes stomping on any cranks here, I've suffered significant neurological damage. This damage has displayed itself in some loss/alteration of motor function as well as other impairments. (Word Recall/Vision issues). Using alternate input devices (love my belkin n51) I am able to overcome many hindrances that exist for me though normal computer users do not encounter these.

If the purpose of the excessive clicking is to create a "speed bump" increasing "time vs reward" then let us, and CCP, come up something that is a valid implementation of that, not just a pot luck solution.

At least then the disadvantage would be shared by us all and not just those of us who are handicapped... or soon to be from all the clicking.

Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2010.07.15 00:58:00 - [8]
 

Supporting consolidating clicks, giving the command center something to really command and the slightly changing view when going into PI mode of a planet.

Xylopia
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.07.15 01:01:00 - [9]
 

Stop this clickfest, and start "Planetary Interaction" please.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2010.07.15 02:06:00 - [10]
 

Supporting an idea that was halfway mine to begin with

Cael Vhiran
Posted - 2010.07.15 02:12:00 - [11]
 

Supporting the idea

Komisches
Matari BackBone
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2010.07.15 06:36:00 - [12]
 

I wholeheartedly support this topic. The clicking gets me down.

I'd like two other things:
- an "offline this factory" button, so i don't have to knockdown/rebuild buildings all the time. Kinda like ship fittings, how you offline them to save grid/cpu without having to remove them entirely.
- an "upgrade this planetary command centre" button.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.07.15 07:46:00 - [13]
 

double yes,
even if from the CC itself link to the extractors then have the ability to shift click to group then double click to select ...
but YES

Laina Delapore
Caldari
Shadowed Command
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.07.15 09:28:00 - [14]
 

Anything to even slightly reduce the clicky-clicky-clicky nature of 10000 Clicks with Dots & Lines™ AKA Planetary Interaction.

Also, the group nature of this makes it not just a case of "I click this, and everything works." Supported.

Aura Omega
Ministry of War

Posted - 2010.07.15 13:13:00 - [15]
 

Love it, +1

Tallus Meridius
Posted - 2010.07.15 20:56:00 - [16]
 

+1 Here as well.

Orb Lati
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe

Posted - 2010.07.16 01:04:00 - [17]
 

+1

Another thing I would love to see is an upgrade feature to processors.
IE in stead of placing 2 processors you could instead just pay to upgrade 1 processor.
Upgrade = cost of 1 processor.
Double Input for Double Output.

Would make my p2 processing array much easier only having 1 lvl 18 (or 2xlvl 9) advanced processor instead of the 18 individual ones I have now.

Avin Hentz
Posted - 2010.07.16 10:34:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Avin Hentz on 16/07/2010 10:34:42
+1 Good Idea

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2010.07.26 03:27:00 - [19]
 

I think this idea needs a few more supporters for it to be noticed :(

Even if it's just some sort of grouping function it needs to be done. As an inventor as well as PI my mouse goes though more then 3,000 clicks a day for extremely repetitive tasks within EVE.

Anything to cut that down would be great..

klyeme
The Mind's Eye
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.07.26 05:19:00 - [20]
 

I will support anything that makes my mouse batteries last longer!

/hugs tree

Naga Tokiba
Posted - 2010.07.26 21:25:00 - [21]
 

Yes, please remove click sink

General Escobar
Caldari
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2010.07.26 22:19:00 - [22]
 

Go soft on the mice!! Smile

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2010.07.27 15:18:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: SencneS on 27/07/2010 15:19:24
No CSM Love for this... Crying or Very sad

This is why you need CSM's that are more industrial then PVP. Something like this would greatly help improve quality of experience to EVE.

A lot of people I talk to about EVE have similar reasons why they didn't like it or why they don't play it any more. One of those reasons is "It's a click fest!" EVE really is a very clicky game. So many functions in the game require a lot of clicking. When something new is added CCP should be focused on reduction of clicking not adding features that require an excessive amounts of clicking to achieve.

It is clear PI is not a main part of the game, and maybe this thread would have been best posted six months from now when PI is pretty much required by most. We shouldn't let it get to that point though, fix it now, while it's fresh and new and up for changes with little impact.

CSM's and CCP do not let Planetary Interaction get too entrenched before making some simple changes to reduce clicking..

Kentonio
Garoun Investment Bank

Posted - 2010.07.27 16:01:00 - [24]
 

+1

Thoran Karlien
Perkone

Posted - 2010.07.27 17:00:00 - [25]
 

Very similar to my idea of a master / slave system where the slaves would always perform the actions of the master pin.


I SoStoned
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.27 20:25:00 - [26]
 

Please.

Something.

ANYTHING, but not 18 months from now. My wrist is killing me!

Six years playing eve and never had a twinge... until now... this shit is killing my wrist.

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:55:00 - [27]
 

This gets a bump every couple of days and every time it gets bumped more people give it a thumbs up.

Only one person has not given it a thumbs up and the claim that NPC stocks reduce the need to click excessively. Also uses the clicking as an excuse to keep the market from getting swamped. The odd thing about the comments, people ARE doing PI, the NPC items only make a fraction of the PI items that need to be made, not to mention when those stockpiles run out people WILL have to be clicking a thousand times a day. The second point out "Keeped the market scarce by introducing a human bottleneck." is... weak in my opinion. You still have logistics to content with which should be the ONLY human bottleneck.

Having a function in game that is targeted toward "low entry, low cost" is all well and good. It should bring in more people, but having that function the MEGA CLICK FEST that PI is, is just extremely poor example being set for new players.

"Hey, I tried that EVE game, When I started playing I had to do...

1) Hunt Rats in 0.8-1.0 system getting me between 5K and 10K a rat.
2) Sit out at a belt for hours on end in my mining n00b ship mining Veldspar
3) When I finally got enough ISK to buy some skills for industry, I trained skills for three weeks getting up Planetary Interaction.
4) I then clicked my mouse over a thousand times to setup a couple of planets to give me some passive income while I mine and rat.
"

Conclusion... EVE is a Click or Wait fest, you either have to wait for everything to get done, or click things hundreds of times to get anywhere..

Is that the example CCP wants to set for new players... As old players say to new players that ask "What's a good way to make some passive ISK?" the old players say "Planetary Interaction has a low capital and skill requirements, and can make some passive ISK."

Don't force new subscribers to click hundreds of time, it sets a bad example and for those of us that LOVE EVE, it just one more thing to hate....

Thoran Karlien
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:25:00 - [28]
 

To be honest, I really hope they prenerved PI, as they did with so many other things.
The possible upgrades are pretty awesome (which amarr player wouldn't want their own temperate planet making slaves?). I just need to wait for them... oh and hope...

In the mean time reducing the amount of micromanagement so we can focus on the fun parts of micromanagement would be a very nice move.

I have already given my thumbs up, so I won't add another one. But I want to underline the issue of removing UI blocks of the PI. For a bot it doesn't matter if it clicks one time or a hundred times. To me it does.

Perhaps another possible upgrade would be to be able to drop an existing command center over an old one, thus replacing the old one with the new while keeping the rest of the infrastructure the same. Not to save any isk, but to remove another UI block that keeps me from the fun parts of micro management.

Stu Weasel
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:53:00 - [29]
 

I agree, pointing and clicking for what feels like hours on end on indy screens makes exciting new content a chore.

Double Dee
Caldari
Perkone

Posted - 2010.10.25 00:36:00 - [30]
 



 

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