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Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.07.13 20:32:00 - [1]
 

I want incarna, thats awesomeness. Thats OK if it takes a while.

Dust however... isnt so far going to be on the PC. I don't give a flying fark about it, to be perfectly honest, for that reason. CCP has yet to give a solid reason as to why, and without one, I fully expect dust to utterly fail.

I'm OK with the 12-18 month timeline to do stuff, but, I'm NOT ok with the non-pc game taking up time for PC fixes unless they plan to put the entirety of eve onto a console port, too. Rolling Eyes

WTF is wrong with communicating about DUST a bit more, CCP? Why not put it onto the PC?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.13 20:37:00 - [2]
 

Because the data shows that staying on consoles only will maximize the revenue from DUST as people on the PC will not spend time playing DUST instead of EVE, creating a double revenue stream without splitting the existing revenue stream from EVE.

Stop thinking in game terms, start thinking in product and profit maximization. The game is no longer of relevance for the high management that makes those decisions.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.07.13 20:44:00 - [3]
 

The devs working on dust are not going to be any good working on eve as they are not using the same code to build each game. It the old argument of pulling the art guys off their stuff to fix bugs etc etc. As far as it coming to pc well its not made for the pc segment its made for the console segment. Besides the only real argument on it going to the consoles is that pc shooter players hate playing twiddle sticks with the kiddie controllers. Hopefully since the engine ccp liscensed from unreal has built in support for mouse and keyboard input they will enable it so moastly everyone is happy.

Celestine Santora
Posted - 2010.07.13 22:22:00 - [4]
 

People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?

SammyullJackson
Posted - 2010.07.13 22:28:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


Need a dispenser here.

Augin Soric
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.07.13 22:34:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


Mouse and keyboard is a much better platform for first-person control than a gamepad, especially with shooters.

Johnny Dexter
Posted - 2010.07.13 22:39:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Johnny Dexter on 13/07/2010 22:40:19
Originally by: Augin Soric
Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?
Mouse and keyboard is a much better platform for first-person control than a gamepad, especially with shooters.
This. You might be able to plug a mouse and keyboard into your XBox and PS3, but then why would you use a console instead of the much more powerful and customizable PC?

I can sort of understand the gamepad having the advantage when it comes to platformers and racing games, but shooters?

Originally by: SammyullJackson
Need a dispenser here.
Engineer is credit to team!

Captain Merkin
Minmatar
Debitum Naturae
Drop the Hammer
Posted - 2010.07.13 23:42:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Augin Soric
Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


Mouse and keyboard is a much better platform for first-person control than a gamepad, especially with shooters.


pure preference my man, pure preference ;)


DTMKnight
Posted - 2010.07.14 16:43:00 - [9]
 

Well lets take a look at sales numbers shall we. Hmmm, 95% of all shooters sold are for consoles as of 2009 numbers. CCP wants to bring in revenue from new players and not simply have allot of EVE players switching bucks from EVE to Dust.

Question answered.

I do agree with you Myxx that more Dust info would be nice. I do not agree with the whole shooters are better with a mouse though. Its to accurate to aim so it just becomes a sniping game which isn't nearly as fun as the pad shooter PvP.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.14 16:59:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 14/07/2010 16:59:38
Originally by: DTMKnight
Hmmm, 95% of all shooters sold are for consoles as of 2009 numbers.


[Citation Needed]

Tribunia
Posted - 2010.07.14 17:13:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
The game is no longer of relevance for the high management that makes those decisions.


Yeah, sadly this.

I do wonder sometimes if they shouldnt have strived for staying smaller than what they apparantly are aiming for, working closely with the community to further EVE without such an immediate need to follow a market strategy thats being worked out above the heads of both those who make the game and those who play it.

I mean, who else knows whats best for it?


Ressiv
Massive PVPness
Posted - 2010.07.14 17:23:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Captain Merkin


pure preference my man, pure preference ;)





Not really .. you have less keys available and less movement sensitivity on a console.

Offcourse you can fix that with auto-aim, but takes a huge bite out of skill.

Vaneshi SnowCrash
Posted - 2010.07.14 17:57:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: SammyullJackson
Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


Need a dispenser here.


Spy sappin' my sentry!

Celestine Santora
Posted - 2010.07.14 18:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Augin Soric
Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


Mouse and keyboard is a much better platform for first-person control than a gamepad, especially with shooters.


That isn't true at all. Only people who suck with controllers say that.

Originally by: Ressiv
Originally by: Captain Merkin


pure preference my man, pure preference ;)





Not really .. you have less keys available and less movement sensitivity on a console.

Offcourse you can fix that with auto-aim, but takes a huge bite out of skill.


Well I'm thinking of my 360 controller and there's two triggers, two bumpers, 10 buttons (counting the dpad which is most often mapped to item usage in FPSes), and two analog sticks (each of which can be clicked for an additional action). That's more than plenty for any FPS so having "less keys available" is really a moot point.

Not to mention the greatest aspect of it is that the voice chat just plain works on consoles. On the PC, you have to screw with getting your mic working at an appropriate volume with your computer, then downloading some VOIP client and getting an account on it, log in, mess with channels, and so forth, or you can use the half-assed builtin voice servers that most PC games nowadays have but almost nobody uses. On a console, you talk and your team hears you, simple as that.

Oh and FYI auto aim takes nothing away from skill. It doesn't really help you aim at all and hurts you probably more than it helps you. Anyone who has been playing a game long enough to care about the skill required has it turned off anyway.

Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.14 18:37:00 - [15]
 

When I get dust on my PC I use dust-off pressurized air, gets all the dust off my PC

ThisIsNotMyAlt
Posted - 2010.07.14 18:41:00 - [16]
 

problem with analog pads like the xbox 360 controller is that it has a very very very low resolution compared to some of the higher quality mise and therefore it is more difficult to perform quick and precise input through them.

Elysarian
Minmatar
Elysarian Corp
Posted - 2010.07.14 19:44:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Celestine Santora
Originally by: Augin Soric
Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


Mouse and keyboard is a much better platform for first-person control than a gamepad, especially with shooters.


That isn't true at all. Only people who suck with controllers say that.

Originally by: Ressiv
Originally by: Captain Merkin


pure preference my man, pure preference ;)





Not really .. you have less keys available and less movement sensitivity on a console.

Offcourse you can fix that with auto-aim, but takes a huge bite out of skill.


Well I'm thinking of my 360 controller and there's two triggers, two bumpers, 10 buttons (counting the dpad which is most often mapped to item usage in FPSes), and two analog sticks (each of which can be clicked for an additional action). That's more than plenty for any FPS so having "less keys available" is really a moot point.

Not to mention the greatest aspect of it is that the voice chat just plain works on consoles. On the PC, you have to screw with getting your mic working at an appropriate volume with your computer, then downloading some VOIP client and getting an account on it, log in, mess with channels, and so forth, or you can use the half-assed builtin voice servers that most PC games nowadays have but almost nobody uses. On a console, you talk and your team hears you, simple as that.

Oh and FYI auto aim takes nothing away from skill. It doesn't really help you aim at all and hurts you probably more than it helps you. Anyone who has been playing a game long enough to care about the skill required has it turned off anyway.


Ok, here's a nice little experiment for you to try that will prove the point of which is best:

Many PC shooters will work with the 360 controller - try using it against someone who is at a similar skill level as yourself with the (in my experience) more accurate and faster mouse/keyboard combination and see who wins.

The analogue sticks on a pad will never compare to the speed and accuracy of a well set up mouse for turning and aiming.

And... before you say anything: I've played (as an example) fallout 3 on both PC and PS3 - when not using VATS I die much less in the PC version (using keyboard and mouse) because I can spin my char around to face the danger much quicker than I can with the PS3 pad, Also played Halo on PC and Xbox with the same results.

Remember that joypads (and sticks) with analogue controls have been around in the PC world for a lot longer than in consoles - 1981 for PC's (yes, before games lol), 1996 for the Sony Playstation.

So, you'd think that if there were an advantage to using "sticks" in FPS games, then they would have caught on a long time ago (I do remember playing Doom with a stick and failing epically at multiplayer).


Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.07.15 06:10:00 - [18]
 

Gamepads have always been and will always be designed with low attention span inexperienced children in mind. You can't throw too much at the little tots and so make them emo and quit playing console games afer all. It's simply bad marketing.

Jarnis McPieksu
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.07.15 07:12:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Vaneshi SnowCrash
Originally by: SammyullJackson
Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


Need a dispenser here.


Spy sappin' my sentry!


Teleporter down!

AterraX
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.15 07:31:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


Because some of us like I.Q better than it was in 2006.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,706182/Exclusive-tech-interview-on-Metro-2033/News/

PCGH: Besides DX11 and GPU-Physic are there any other visual as well as technical differences between the version developed for PC and the consoles? Which technical features can't be realized with the console version?

Oles Shishkovstov: When you have more performance on the table, you can either do nothing as you say (and as most direct console ports do) or you add the features. Because our platforms got equal attention, we took the second route. Naturally most of the features are graphics related but not all. The internal PhysX tick-rate was doubled on PC resulting in more precise collision detection and joint behavior. We "render” almost twice the number of sounds (all with wave-tracing) compared to consoles. That's just a few examples, so that you can see that not only graphics gets a boost. While on the graphics side (that's not a complete list):

• most of the textures are 2048^2 (consoles use 1024^2)
• the shadow-map resolution is up to 9.43 Mpix
• the shadow filtering is much, much better
• the parallax mapping is enabled on all surfaces, some with occlusion-mapping
• we've utilized a lot of "true” volumetric stuff, which is very important in dusty environments
• from DX10 upwards we use correct "local motion blur” (sometimes called "object blur”)
• the light-material response is nearly "physically-correct” on higher quality presets
• the ambient occlusion is greatly improved (especially on higher quality presets)
• sub-surface scattering makes a lot of difference on human faces, hands, etc.
• the geometric detail is somewhat better - because of different LOD selection (not even counting DX11 tessellation)

Why would I use a console and get crappy GFX?

Dario Wall
Posted - 2010.07.15 08:05:00 - [21]
 

To the OP, Dust 514 has its own development team, so time is not being taken away from EVE like you may think. CCP is a growing company, and has decided they are going to expand their market into console while still attempting to keep things close to home. So they are releasing an FPS set in the EVE universe. Would you rather they scrap it and work on a Hello Kitty game for consoles?

Like someone mentioned already, Dust 514 being console only is a business decision from CCP that makes sense. Sure, a lot of you won't buy it if it's not available on the PC. But you all have EVE to play anyways. CCP is a company, and like any decent company they are expanding their market. With the release of Dust, they are targeting the more casual console gamers who do not have the time to dedicate to an MMO such as EVE. Consoles are also a lot cheaper than most standard gaming PCs, so are more readily available to the average consumer.

You also have to consider how Dust is being designed to work. While it may be great to have console Dust players play with PC Dust players, it's not a viable business design. It would cost CCP quite a lot more development time and money to rewrite the game to work for PC.

As for the entire mouse/keyboard versus gamepad debate, it all depends on the user. Some people are better at handling a gamepad than a mouse/keyboard, while some are better with a mouse/keyboard than a gamepad. If you're good with one but bad with the other, that's just how you are. Blaming it on the equipment doesn't get you very far.

Leisen
Caldari
Interrobang Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.15 08:14:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Leisen on 15/07/2010 08:25:45
Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


It'll be a long time before consoles catch up with my rig.

PC: Better video quality, better sound quality, better physics, more customization, better internet connection with no XBL/PSN bull****, more control possibilities, more accurate controls.

Consoles: Simpleton friendly.


Edit: Let's not forget that given a couple years time no one will be playing DUST on the consoles. Have fun with your work and new game mechanic becoming obsolete and unused.

daremo shirnai
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.07.15 08:20:00 - [23]
 

DUST is going to fail big since CCP seems to **** up PI in every way they try... Even now huge amounts of NPC PI goods are available through missions and easily ganked convoys.

Cypherous
Minmatar
Lions of Judah Incorporated
Posted - 2010.07.15 10:17:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu
Originally by: Vaneshi SnowCrash
Originally by: SammyullJackson
Originally by: Celestine Santora
People still play FPS games on the PC in 2010?

I mean...what's the point?


Need a dispenser here.


Spy sappin' my sentry!


Teleporter down!



Sometimes you just need a little less gun


 

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