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blankseplocked [Proposal] Time to Remove Inter-Empire Highsec Highways
 
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Niyrah
Posted - 2010.07.31 17:21:00 - [121]
 


mr rens
Posted - 2010.08.29 20:21:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: mr rens on 29/08/2010 20:39:52
edit: without the currency, I support this. But... I'd really love to hear any links to dev discussion about this, if anyone has anything. Searching through this thread now. I'd suggest contacting the people that didn't support due to currency in-game and rounding up support.

Aurum Bellator
Posted - 2010.08.29 20:54:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Aurum Bellator on 29/08/2010 20:55:50
Removed the portion of the OP that related to currency proposal due to lack of support. Please consider this only related to the removal of highsec highways between empires.

AUB

PS. Need to disclose a bias built into Varo Jan's position throughout this thread. After the main discussion took place, it was later discovered that Varo is setting up a franchise business across all empires (a POS / research franchise). Removal of the highsec highways would severely limit his ability to accomplish this. Thus, consider his arguments on that basis.

Harris Dorn
Posted - 2010.08.29 23:26:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Aurum Bellator
Edited by: Aurum Bellator on 29/08/2010 20:52:08
Edited by: Aurum Bellator on 12/07/2010 22:32:29

Back in the days before Yulai, there was widespread clamor for highways to connect the capitals of each empire. The argument was, it takes too long to get anywhere. There aren't enough players to justify the space. "Approaching Stargate." Etc.

So CCP added superhighways that connected all four empires with CONCORD space. Yulai supermarket hub was created. Market prices across the empires were homogenized. The inter-regional / inter-empire trader was dead. Concurrent players peaked around 7,000 at this point in time.

Fastforward. At some point (I do not know when, as I was on official leave of absence from the game), CCP removed the superhighways and Yulai died. Enter the age of Jita, Amarr, Rens, and Dodixie.

Fastforward to present. Eve reaches 60k concurrent players. Space is crowded. Jita is today's Yulai. Prices are once again mostly homogenized (not completely).

In my opinion, it is time to take the final step and remove the highsec highways that connect empires to empires. Each empire should be bordered with only lowsec systems, so that in order to travel between empires, you have to travel through borderzones rife with piracy and warfare.

[PROPOSAL RELATED TO ADDITIONAL CURRENCIES REMOVED DUE TO LACK OF SUPPORT]

The benefit? For one, it would allow the possibility of lucrative and specialized trade routes. Tweak drop rates in different areas and you will have vast price differences, with people unable to connect them with autopilot in a freighter. Think of the trade possibilities that would erupt by simply altering the spawn rate of certain asteroids in the four empires.

Two, it will spread the population out from the central network that connects the major hubs.

Finally, doing this would at last create the unique 'flavor' of each empire/race. It would also create far more opportunity for lowsec gameplay, and by that I don't just mean ganking and pirating although certainly there would be that as well.


AUB


Couldn't 'people' just cyno crap in? And by people I mean a select few just like the select few who who will/can afford an armada to protect their trade convoy.

Secondly yeah it pretty much would just create more ganking and pirating for lowsec.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service

Posted - 2010.08.29 23:27:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Aurum Bellator
In my opinion, it is time to take the final step and remove the highsec highways that connect empires to empires. Each empire should be bordered with only lowsec systems, so that in order to travel between empires, you have to travel through borderzones rife with piracy and warfare.


/signed

Zirse
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.08.29 23:35:00 - [126]
 

/signed

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.08.30 00:05:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Battle Mage
As a new player, I am waiting for alot of skill to get train. I am in no shape or form to pvp with my current ship and skill point. Low in isk means I can't afford to keep losing implants, ships and stuff fitted on it.

(1) Price will go up, very high possibility. A big problem for new players.

Not for stuff a new player can afford, as minerals are mined everywhere.

Originally by: Battle Mage
(2) Places I can fly around safely now, I would have to avoid with this change. Including agent of my faction corp located in another empire.

You can fly around there safely too.. just getting there will be a bit trickier than before.. and that would be bad?
The agent system is broken anyways.. many proposals already brought up. Don't hang onto something that's archaic.

Originally by: Battle Mage
(3) How the hell players other then Gallente going to do SoE epic arc?

Phew.. time for CCP to pull out some more for the other factions?!
I mean, they told us a year(?!) ago that their new mission scripting system is so awesome, that they could pull out new epic arcs practically every month..

Originally by: Battle Mage
(4) Except for a few brave souls, most new players will not see other empire for months.

Something to look forward then? Seems to look good under this point of view.. non-instant-gratification.

Originally by: Battle Mage
With all the above said, this proposed change is a great deterrent for new players, and only benefit the old.

Until someone can convince me otherwise, thumb down.

If you get older you will see that this is good.

Baroshi Hynas
Gallente
The Exploratory Project

Posted - 2010.08.30 02:56:00 - [128]
 

Supported! Besides the bias that I'm a pirate and would love more lowsec to kill in, I like the idea because it adds, as Aurum put it, "flavor" to each empire island.

KILL THE EVE PANGAEA, MAKE INTO CONTINENTS!!!

PS. If you really support this topic, make sure to check the "Check here if you want to give your support to the idea/discussion going on" box, because "+1 support" just doesn't cut it.

Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.08.30 03:23:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Stick Cult on 30/08/2010 03:23:23
Originally by: Aurum Bellator
]PS. Need to disclose a bias built into Varo Jan's position throughout this thread. After the main discussion took place, it was later discovered that Varo is setting up a franchise business across all empires (a POS / research franchise). Removal of the highsec highways would severely limit his ability to accomplish this. Thus, consider his arguments on that basis.

And let's say I'm a pirate, so I'm all for making lowsec between empires because not doing so would be a huge setback to my possible profits. You also show bias against having Varo set up his research franchise. My friend doesn't want this because he makes money moving things in freighters between trade hubs. A guy I was talking to in local is a highsec carebear and thinks lowsec is bad bad bad, and doesn't want to be forced through it to go to another empire.

Everyone has a bias.

Note: That was all made up, except the part about you, but let's just pretend it's real...

edit: Not supported.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.08.30 04:13:00 - [130]
 

What the care bears think will happen: brave souls will ship goods across the low sec areas to make huge profits, industrialistsntake advantage of scarcity to make profits manufacturing bulky goods near regional market hubs, everyone is happy.

What will really happen: everyone moves to Jita, every other hisec region perishes. Pirates camping low sec border gates wonder what they can do to get more care bears out into low sec.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2010.08.30 05:22:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 30/08/2010 05:36:24
Originally by: Battle Mage

Well, I am seeing a high % of support here.



Naw you're just seeing the usual suspects trying to force players into pirate nests so they can extend their killboard e-peens.

Apparently that's supposed to appeal to their victims and make low sec more popular or something.

Yavanna Akallabeth
Posted - 2010.08.30 06:32:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Mike C
Edited by: Mike C on 14/07/2010 02:44:34
Nice idea but SEVERELY flawed. This is an age where everyone and their mother has a jump-capable ship. Markets would be about as homogenized as they are now. Any practical trader has more than one account, and it wouldn't cost much to keep a disposable cyno alt in a system...

Jita to Dodixie - Ark Rhea Anshar Nomad
1. Warp to Perimeter Gate & Jump (Saves some fuel)
2. Jump to cyno alt in Decon
3. Slowboat to Dodixie, 3 jumps.
4. Profit

Dodixie to Jita - Ark Rhea Anshar Nomad
1. Jump to cyno alt in Ignoitton
2. Slowboat to Jita, 3 jumps.
3. Profit

Amarr to Dodixie - Ark Rhea Anshar Nomad
1. Jump to cyno alt in Decon
2. Slowboat to Dodixie, 3 jumps.
3. Profit

Dodixie to Amarr - Ark Rhea Anshar Nomad
1. Jump to cyno alt in Naguton
2. Slowboat to Amarr, 4 jumps.
3. Profit


Not even going to go into Hek/Rens, my ****ing Redeemers could (and do) jump that run.


I for one think this would be a great idea. It would add another choke point in trade and open up another career for traders. I would think this, with CCP help, allow alliances to set up trade control routes through low-sec as one way to add more game play to EVE.Wink

mindimoo
Caldari
Black Core Federation
Posted - 2010.08.30 07:41:00 - [133]
 

Supported as long as there are plenty of entry points and the gate guns are also buffed up, way too easy and safe for people to sit and tank them getting easy ganks then running off when something looking a bit more that it could defend itself turns up.

Personally I'd say put scramming and webbing modules as well as the guns on the gates so if someone wants to agress on a gate they also get some risk involved, make a timer on it, 5 - 10 minuites seems fair, enough time for the ganked to get something together and get revenge.


Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.08.30 08:24:00 - [134]
 

Yes more chokepoints is really what eve needs...

Quote:
Two, it will spread the population out from the central network that connects the major hubs.

Hahahahhahahhahahhhaha

Wait, you are serious? Spreading the population out? Lol.

Lets add some realism. Jita is the biggest trade hub. Partially due to ignorance, there is no real reason to buy a normal t2 fitted ship in jita instead of amarr for example, but still enough do the trip. So now you want more easy ganks and want to add low sec between the empires, tbh would easier solution would be if you could just ask CCP to spawn NCP freighters in your camp. But why exactly do you think that after this change, which will only lead to the smaller hubs being less stocked, will anyone live in gallente space when you can also just run missions in motsu and do your shopping in jita without low sec between it?

The main effects will be some easy ganks for pirates and even more crowding in caldari space with less people in space of other empires.

Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar
Rebirth.
Posted - 2010.08.30 08:39:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Lemmy Kravitz on 30/08/2010 08:40:58
/signed this gets +1 frp, ,e

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.08.30 09:44:00 - [136]
 

this thread definitely needs more thumbs up from failing pirates.

Rolling Eyes

Anders Oxenstierna
Posted - 2010.08.30 10:23:00 - [137]
 

It's very time consuming to travel through the universe already now. NO.

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe

Posted - 2010.08.30 10:39:00 - [138]
 

I don't actually know if removing superhighways will change the population distribution or polarize even more the global market and the empire population.

But the example of Yulai gives us some hope about the market decentralizing.

So, I'll support this idea.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.08.30 13:26:00 - [139]
 

Love it. Make all empire borders in losec.

Vesok Toch
Posted - 2010.08.30 13:35:00 - [140]
 

Great idea

Levistus Junior
Caldari
Trojan Trolls
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2010.08.30 13:55:00 - [141]
 

Sounds interesting.

BinaryIdiot
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.08.30 14:51:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: BinaryIdiot on 30/08/2010 14:52:10
+1

When I first started I thought 0.0 separated the different empires and was very disappointed to learn that it wasn't only wrong but that we have high-sec connections! Where's the risk?

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2010.08.30 14:54:00 - [143]
 

As long as this doesn't become another Rancor, one system highway.

Zumra
Posted - 2010.08.30 15:01:00 - [144]
 

Not supported,

and how does this make sense from an RP point of view? CONCORD has a mission, and part of that mission is to promote peace between the major empires. A good step to this WOULD be to create safe space "highways" so diplomats and such could get from empire to empire without being blown up on route. Having safe routes for empire's traders and citizens also promotes communication, friendship and peace. Removing these routes is not something CONCORD would do from an RP point of view as it would push them years back in their mission.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2010.08.30 15:06:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Zumra
Not supported,

and how does this make sense from an RP point of view? CONCORD has a mission, and part of that mission is to promote peace between the major empires. A good step to this WOULD be to create safe space "highways" so diplomats and such could get from empire to empire without being blown up on route. Having safe routes for empire's traders and citizens also promotes communication, friendship and peace. Removing these routes is not something CONCORD would do from an RP point of view as it would push them years back in their mission.


From an RP standpoint? Seriously? Those "highways" should be war zones from an RP standpoint. There should be enormous NPC fleets shooting people attempting to provide their enemy with aid.

MP Rhianna
Posted - 2010.08.30 15:35:00 - [146]
 

Not supported, just another BS game change to boost one group's style of play with the lame attempt to say it is to make 'trade better', which would do little more than let each region become a cash cow for fatcat economic warlords.

Cikulisuy
Amarr
Viziam

Posted - 2010.08.30 16:29:00 - [147]
 

suppoted wholeheartedly.

Danesta Rictor
Posted - 2010.08.30 17:00:00 - [148]
 

Edited by: Danesta Rictor on 30/08/2010 17:00:52
personally i thin kthis is a bad idea.

all i can see is trade being choked off, as no one with a clue would take a freighter into low sec UNLESS they had major firesupport, wich would simply put trade into the hands of the power grps only.

i dont see it as increasing but decreasing trade. the only other group benefited by this are the pirates. welcoem to Rancor #27 enjoy your gank err i meant day.


i support this idea NOT being implamented.

Muul Udonii
Minmatar
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.08.30 17:55:00 - [149]
 

+1 to the idea of making it more likely that high sec regions will have different markets. Somehow.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2010.08.30 17:58:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Jada Maroo on 30/08/2010 18:40:05
Originally by: Bagehi


From an RP standpoint? Seriously? Those "highways" should be war zones from an RP standpoint. There should be enormous NPC fleets shooting people attempting to provide their enemy with aid.



So wrong it's hard to know where to start. Shocked

First, the empires are not all at war with each other. There are allied NPC "sides" that exist in a state of cold war with the occasional skirmish.

Second, there's no logical reason why the heavily fortified borders between cold war opponents would be *less* secure. Realistically they would be the most secured areas in space.

Third, the empires use Concord for the specific purpose of facilitating trade between them.

Forth, under your reasoning there's no reason why there would be a low-sec border between allies either (Amarr/Caldari, Minmatar/Gallente).

Lastly, this whole idea of "boost null sec by punishing carebears" needs to end. They aren't gonna go to low sec by force. It's not going to work. It's just going to make the Eve universe a lot smaller for a huge amount of players. CCP knows this -- this is why they aren't ever gonna remove the highways. You'd be better off getting behind ideas that CCP might actually implement to bring more peeps into low and null and to create regional markets.


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