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blankseplocked Do capsuleer ships have crews? Apart from the capsuleer?
 
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:22:00 - [1]
 

*points to subject*

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:25:00 - [2]
 

Yes.

Reldor Silverheart
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:25:00 - [3]
 

Most do yes, but require smaller crews than a standard ship, frigs and destroyers do not have crew tho i believe. Cruisers up have crews.

Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:27:00 - [4]
 

Frigs don't, but everything above has, in fact, a crew.

Ataal R'tha
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:27:00 - [5]
 

Isn't that the point of the capsule, to be able to fly a ship without a crew? Sucks it something broke though.

If not:

WTB advanced gunnery crew, 10% bonus to tracking speed/damage/range.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:28:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Yes.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:31:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Abrazzar on 11/07/2010 21:31:23
Originally by: Ataal R'tha
Isn't that the point of the capsule, to be able to fly a ship without a crew? Sucks it something broke though.

If not:

WTB advanced gunnery crew, 10% bonus to tracking speed/damage/range.

The Capsule replaces the whole command structure and also allows for advanced control of the ship's system.

Someone still has to go into the hydraulics chamber of the Artillery turret joint and fiddle the Fedo out of the valve where it got itself squished. A robot just isn't versatile enough for such a delicate task (or would cost more than your whole crew).

Serpent Kamri
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:32:00 - [8]
 

Frigates usually have no crewmembers, electronic warfare ones maybe a couple.
Cruisers have around 400 to 600.
Battleships have around 6000 to 8000.
Capitals are flying cities.

Bilko Bobski
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:38:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Bilko Bobski on 11/07/2010 21:38:24
They do have crews aside from the actual capsuleer; to which the average (at least the avergae of which bodies can be recovered) is 30/ship.

Sources:

Lost Stars Chronicle: http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=28-06-10
Mentions the number of corpses needing recovered as 1000 for 30 ships destroyed. As mentioned, this is only corpses that are in-tact or paid to be collected, the number of un-recovered corpses could be much higher. In one way this brings the idea that because it was only the rich would could afford to have the corpse recovered - it would mainly be officers who were recovered, not low-ranking crew. Therefore suggesting that the command itself was of a similar complement to Battlestar Galactica's (roughly) and so based on rough crew figures from BSG; an average ship would have around 2000 crew members.

The only other point to support the idea of having a large crew is that existence of viewing windows on all ships - specifically viewing decks and ports in locations you could expect. While some of these could be accredited to oxygen gardens and food gardens; requiring open windows for light - it wouldn't be silly to think many of these windows would be for passenger and crew quarters.

TL;DR - around 2000 crew average (most likely correct for cruisers/battleships and mining vessels) with an officer compliment of 30.

That's just my idea of it, but taking the chronicles into account it makes sense.

Tavin Aikisen
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:39:00 - [10]
 

Search for 'Project Athena'. Someone cited a lot of technical details, including crew compliments, for several ships. A nice read. Smile

Y Berion
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.11 21:43:00 - [11]
 

CCP says most of the ships have crew athough it doesn't make much sense to me. So no, there's no crew on MY ships Wink

Aion Amarra
Minmatar
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.11 22:10:00 - [12]
 

Also, iirc, T2 ships, which are tailored more towards capsule pilots, rather than repurposed, are generally supposed to have a smaller crew compliment than T1 ships with similar size/hull.

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2010.07.11 22:16:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Y Berion
CCP says most of the ships have crew athough it doesn't make much sense to me. So no, there's no crew on MY ships Wink


Aww, everyone wants to be special.

Y Berion
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.11 22:23:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Graelyn
Originally by: Y Berion
CCP says most of the ships have crew athough it doesn't make much sense to me. So no, there's no crew on MY ships Wink


Aww, everyone wants to be special.


Heh yeah. Now, if I could only find the switch to turn off the lights in all those useless empty cabins which make my combat ships look like damn tourist cruisers.

LittleTerror
Day Unhappy Security Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.11 22:34:00 - [15]
 

Yes they do, its just one of these things you never see and one of these things that make **** all difference to your performance. I expect they are also sitting in goo tanks and have a job role to fill but imo to keep things simple the devs have never ventured into ships with crew. It is certainly listed though on the ship profiles on the main site somewhere, they do have crews and dimensions such as lenght etc. I forgot where I was reading this.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.07.11 22:38:00 - [16]
 

No the whole point of a capsule to make a ship more efficent.

Thats why we can kick the crud out of non pod captained (NPC) ships with fewer people as well in our crews, were that much more efficient.

Its the reason why the interstellar governments plea for our assistance, the cost in pay in wages to both our crew and us are laughable than a fully crewed navy ship's time or effort and wages. Regular people dream on serving on a capsuller ship thier chances of surivival is usually higher than those on a NPC ship, and the pay is substancial, even if they die on the first outing they will earn enough for thier families to provide for a long time, possibly even retire them from any work they have todo.

All ships are still designed to have crews regardless of the presence of a pod or not including the tech 2 and tech 3 ships because faction empire militaries still heavily employ any and every ship at thier disposal.

Capsullers represent the rare elite people of the galaxy of in a population ranging in the hundreds of billions.

However like any good capsuller there is a nice general mood twoards our crews. Some pilots will completely disregard thier crew, forming any relationship tends to be bad for captaining as they view it. Others at least have some sort of compassion for thier crew to show at least they're still somewhat human instead of some hidious monster god they are serving.

'All these lives are fit to ruin' is a very nice chronicle to read up on the complexities of crew nessecitated what they go though and the sort..

LittleTerror
Day Unhappy Security Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.11 22:43:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Nova Fox
No the whole point of a capsule to make a ship more efficent.

Thats why we can kick the crud out of non pod captained (NPC) ships with fewer people as well in our crews, were that much more efficient.

Its the reason why the interstellar governments plea for our assistance, the cost in pay in wages to both our crew and us are laughable than a fully crewed navy ship's time or effort and wages. Regular people dream on serving on a capsuller ship thier chances of surivival is usually higher than those on a NPC ship, and the pay is substancial, even if they die on the first outing they will earn enough for thier families to provide for a long time, possibly even retire them from any work they have todo.

All ships are still designed to have crews regardless of the presence of a pod or not including the tech 2 and tech 3 ships because faction empire militaries still heavily employ any and every ship at thier disposal.

Capsullers represent the rare elite people of the galaxy of in a population ranging in the hundreds of billions.

However like any good capsuller there is a nice general mood twoards our crews. Some pilots will completely disregard thier crew, forming any relationship tends to be bad for captaining as they view it. Others at least have some sort of compassion for thier crew to show at least they're still somewhat human instead of some hidious monster god they are serving.

'All these lives are fit to ruin' is a very nice chronicle to read up on the complexities of crew nessecitated what they go though and the sort..


I think you might be right actaully, the pod replaced the need for crew and what I was reading was old data.

Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.11 22:48:00 - [18]
 

no the media says that capsuleer ships do have tiny crews, who are basically janitors and repair men keeping the ship at optimal with no real control or anything over the ship,

so when your bs got popped a couple hundred space janitors and repairmen got toasted,

its even mentioned that only the desperate or insane ship on a capsuleer ship tour

Morolen1
Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:14:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Morolen1 on 11/07/2010 23:20:18
Considering the level of technology in eve, the idea that robotics wouldn't be advanced enough to replace a crew is absurd. Just another example of the scifi trope "One technology to rule them all". Eves one super advanced form of tech is obviously spaceflight while every other field has either fallen by the wayside or for some reason just plays by itself without any integration with other disciplines. While technology doesnt advance at the same in all areas, it does still advance, besides we have proof that robotics tech is JUST as advanced as anything else ie. rogue drones. So despite ccp's claims that ships have crew, there is no reason for them to do so when there is evidence that points to the contrary.

Of course for NPC ships, there could very well be a place for a crew, since they are, no doubt, cheaper. I suppose the more cruel(and fiscally minded) capsuleers might use a crew for the same reason, cost.

Boern Leedah
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:25:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Morolen1
Edited by: Morolen1 on 11/07/2010 23:20:18
Considering the level of technology in eve, the idea that robotics wouldn't be advanced enough to replace a crew is absurd. Just another example of the scifi trope "One technology to rule them all". Eves one super advanced form of tech is obviously spaceflight while every other field has either fallen by the wayside or for some reason just plays by itself without any integration with other disciplines. While technology doesnt advance at the same in all areas, it does still advance, besides we have proof that robotics tech is JUST as advanced as anything else ie. rogue drones. So despite ccp's claims that ships have crew, there is no reason for them to do so when there is evidence that points to the contrary.

Of course for NPC ships, there could very well be a place for a crew, since they are, no doubt, cheaper. I suppose the more cruel(and fiscally minded) capsuleers might use a crew for the same reason, cost.


lol?

Quote:
So despite ccp's claims that ships have crew


You DO realize that CCP writes the canon, right?

Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:29:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 11/07/2010 23:29:05
Originally by: Y Berion
CCP says most of the ships have crew athough it doesn't make much sense to me. So no, there's no crew on MY ships Wink



Contrary to your belief though, there are people aboard your vessels. Show them some respect will ya. Razz

Morolen1
Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:38:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Morolen1 on 11/07/2010 23:40:31
Originally by: Boern Leedah


You DO realize that CCP writes the canon, right?


Just because they wrote it, doesn't make it internally consistent, writers suffer from that all the time. Mostly because its hard work envisioning how a whole universe might change based on technological advances and worse, how those same advanced would change each other.

Perhaps more to the point I suppose, if you cant see them, the game is almost deliberately vague on their existence AND they have no real effect on your ship or the story in any meaningful way, why not just say capsuleer vessels are sans crew?

Boern Leedah
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:40:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Morolen1
Originally by: Boern Leedah


You DO realize that CCP writes the canon, right?


Just because they wrote it, doesn't make it internally consistent, writers suffer from that all the time. Mostly because its hard work envisioning how a whole universe might change based on technological advances and worse, how those same advanced would change each other.


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb

See type 4, subtype 1 -- "Culture Alien". To quote:

Quote:
... this fan often seems to have no Willing Suspension Of Disbelief, often leading him to criticize or refuse to accept plots, characters and themes that might be necessary or even essential for that show or genre to function

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:41:00 - [24]
 

Ships do have a crew. I once petitioned that question to CCP and they wrote back. While I no longer have the email, they said frigates have no crew, or singular digits, while cruiser have hundreds, battlecruisers have thousands, and i think they said the battleships had tens of thousands (you can only guess the capital ships). While we have no real sense of scale on the ships, you can get a glimpse of the size of a Zealot cruiser through going to Youtube and looking up "walking in station" for Eve. It gives a really good comparison to the size of the cruiser and the size of the people.

Also, if you've ever wondered why you pwn face and NPC's suck teh carp, it's because the NPC's seldom use capsuleers (though why they don't is anybody's guess, they should have the capabilities) and your capsule control of the starship systems gives your ship a huge advantage on non-capsulated npc ships who rely solely on a crew. In short, when you kill npc's, you're killing thousands of crewmen (those that dont get to ejection bays).

-Feral

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:42:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Morolen1
Edited by: Morolen1 on 11/07/2010 23:20:18
Considering the level of technology in eve, the idea that robotics wouldn't be advanced enough to replace a crew is absurd.


I'm sure the point isn't that robotics isn't advanced enough to replace a crew, but whether it's cost effective to do so. You can pay a crewman minimum wage to sweep the floors, make sure your cargo is all sorted, run ammo to your turrets, etc, or you can pay millions to have a robot which does the same thing and still needs maintenance by a human mechanic.

Besides, the Gallente messed about with advanced robotics and improved AI. They created the rogue drones - you want the possibility of one of those running about on your ship?

Morolen1
Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:47:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Boern Leedah
Originally by: Morolen1
Originally by: Boern Leedah


You DO realize that CCP writes the canon, right?


Just because they wrote it, doesn't make it internally consistent, writers suffer from that all the time. Mostly because its hard work envisioning how a whole universe might change based on technological advances and worse, how those same advanced would change each other.


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb


See type 4, subtype 1 -- "Culture Alien". To quote:

Quote:
... this fan often seems to have no Willing Suspension Of Disbelief, often leading him to criticize or refuse to accept plots, characters and themes that might be necessary or even essential for that show or genre to function



i like my fictional universes to be consistent, its more elegant. To compare to say...a fantasy novel, when the author puts the heros into a situation where their magic or skills should get them out of the situation, but it doesnt, just because, it can be a little jarring, much like this.

To address your tvtropes example, EVE is a story about immortal gods of the universe who rule from their iron chariots in the heavens, the existence of a crew on your ship is, at best, meaningless and at worse, contrary to the very theme you are pointing to.

Y Berion
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:48:00 - [27]
 

I remember similar and pretty long discussion about this few years ago where final conclusion was - CCP says there are crew on ships, so it must be true. Which is obviously something you cannot really argue about.

Anyway, few questions remain:

- capsule is directly connecting pilot's brain to all subsystems so there's no need for other humans to be involved in process of commanding the ship, right? It's all between you and your machine.

- capsule is protecting pilot from tremendous G-forces; if that's true, then how are the crew members able to survive the flight if they don't have their own personal capsules? If they do, that means they must be locked in them all the time, and you cannot really ask those people to do anything useful while they're taking their bath in goo.

- we're here flying highly advanced spaceships featuring amazing things like FTL travel, powerful EM shields, cloaking etc, we can quickly and 100% efficiently bring damaged modules, armor and hull in line using certain fantastic devices like armor reps and nano paste, all of that can be achieved (plus so much more, like cloning, jumpgates...) but we still don't have a slightest clue how to build reliable automated systems capable to work 24/7 without complains, very likely faster and far more precise than any human being could, and with no need for food, water and additional space to sleep and rest. Yeah, sure it makes sense.

So until human crew becomes something more than just a few lines written in backstories, a true ingame factor (like in, say, Silent Hunter series), I chose to think that my ships don't have crew.

Morolen1
Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:54:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Marine HK4861
Originally by: Morolen1
Edited by: Morolen1 on 11/07/2010 23:20:18
Considering the level of technology in eve, the idea that robotics wouldn't be advanced enough to replace a crew is absurd.


I'm sure the point isn't that robotics isn't advanced enough to replace a crew, but whether it's cost effective to do so. You can pay a crewman minimum wage to sweep the floors, make sure your cargo is all sorted, run ammo to your turrets, etc, or you can pay millions to have a robot which does the same thing and still needs maintenance by a human mechanic.

Besides, the Gallente messed about with advanced robotics and improved AI. They created the rogue drones - you want the possibility of one of those running about on your ship?



The construction costs of a robotic crew, i would think, might be recouped in the form of not needing a human friendly environment inside the ship, very little food or water, a ship that is overall more structurally sound since it doesn't need large internal open spaces for crew to live and work in and lastly, a crew that is incapable of mutiny.

About the drones, i don't think you need an advanced AI to do what is needed of a crew, but some of the other solutions that also should exist in eve(personality forking and things like that) aren't really mentioned.

Besides ccp brought this on themselves, they wanted a scifi simulator, then they have to write a plausible universe for one :D


Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:55:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Y Berion
So until human crew becomes something more than just a few lines written in backstories, a true ingame factor (like in, say, Silent Hunter series), I chose to think that my ships don't have crew.

It does not matter what you think. You are not in the position to define the game setting and background. If you don't want it, then just STFU about it.

Morolen1
Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.07.11 23:57:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Y Berion
I remember similar and pretty long discussion about this few years ago where final conclusion was - CCP says there are crew on ships, so it must be true. Which is obviously something you cannot really argue about.

Anyway, few questions remain:

- capsule is directly connecting pilot's brain to all subsystems so there's no need for other humans to be involved in process of commanding the ship, right? It's all between you and your machine.

- capsule is protecting pilot from tremendous G-forces; if that's true, then how are the crew members able to survive the flight if they don't have their own personal capsules? If they do, that means they must be locked in them all the time, and you cannot really ask those people to do anything useful while they're taking their bath in goo.

- we're here flying highly advanced spaceships featuring amazing things like FTL travel, powerful EM shields, cloaking etc, we can quickly and 100% efficiently bring damaged modules, armor and hull in line using certain fantastic devices like armor reps and nano paste, all of that can be achieved (plus so much more, like cloning, jumpgates...) but we still don't have a slightest clue how to build reliable automated systems capable to work 24/7 without complains, very likely faster and far more precise than any human being could, and with no need for food, water and additional space to sleep and rest. Yeah, sure it makes sense.

So until human crew becomes something more than just a few lines written in backstories, a true ingame factor (like in, say, Silent Hunter series), I chose to think that my ships don't have crew.


Pretty much this, and yea ccp put their foot down and all, but it doesn't mean it makes sense, using fiat to hold your fictional world together is ugly ;)


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