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Anara Serraph
Serraph Family Holdings
Posted - 2010.07.10 14:17:00 - [31]
 

I am kinda looking forward to dust just to see what ccp can do with it.

I understand the op's concerns about a company diversifying the types of games it makes, but a lot of companies find success by doing that blizzard going into mmo development springs to mind as the biggest.

But having said that ccp's first priority should be fixing the broken stuff in eve.

Danghor
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.10 14:31:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Galan Amarias
So because some fps failed you are mad about dust?

If CCP has shown anything over the years it is testicular fortitude and willingness to do something new, like a fps overlayed with a mmo where we interact.

Personally I can't wait to irradiate Dust-bunnies from orbit. I know I won't be allowed to from early on but I'm hoping we can get direct interaction some day.

Also, I vote we call all console souls, "Dust-bunnies"

-Galan



I'm not mad about Dust, simply stunned by the risk taken



Originally by: Arkanor
Edited by: Arkanor on 10/07/2010 06:28:25
Originally by: Danghor
I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot


That's a pretty arbitrary benchmark, there ARE other review houses, and the number is simply a very very simplified figure.


Originally by: Danghor

Here's a short list of FAILED games :
Serious Sam II by 2k Games FAIL
Unreal II: The Awakening by ATARi FAIL
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky by Koch Media FAIL
Medal of Honor: Airborne by EA FAIL
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by UbiSoft FAIL
Alien VS Predator 2010 by SEGA FAIL



OK, let me stop you there. Those are hardly failed games, I imagine most of them passed your metric (GS 8.5), so why FAIL?

Also, MW2 made $1,000,000,000 in ten weeks, not bad for a "failed" game.


Almost all the games in that list are reviewed below 8.0 on gamespot, by the gamespot reviewers AND the players !

MW2 is a fail [to me] mainly because the immense hype it got and poor review, it got a 8.5 ! With that much hype and with the developement team they have they should have got a 9.3 at least. If people paid a monthly fee to play MW2, how many do you think would have quit by now ?

But the goal of the list is only to show that great studios, even with the best intentions can fail to deliver. The list is only an example that FPS is a tough business and that CCP should have considered developping 1 or 2 shooters beforehand.


Originally by: Eric Policky
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
OP says he considers MW2 FAIL?
It had the largest single day sakes of any multimedia product EVER recorded on release day.
Developers dream of failingnlike that lol.
Personal attack removed.Applebaeb
Of everything you listed, YOU are the biggest fail in this thread.

Just to emphasize that the OP is an idiot for saying MW2 is a failure: There are currently 116,777 players on playlists for MW2 on XBox360 (on playlists meaning currently playing the game online). There are currently 22,865 players on Tranquility. There are more than 5 times as many players actively playing MW2 right now on XBox alone (the title is also available on other platforms) than EVE. If MW2 is a failure, surely OP must consider EVE a failure for only attracting an audience 20% the size of a portion of the MW2 audience.



I don't think MW2 strengthen the Call of Duty Community, sure they have a lot more people playing it than EVE. However as an analogy, if IBM makes 200 millions profit in a quarter, it's going to be a FAIL for the investors. Got my point ?

So with all the hype and marketing of MW2, who says that they consider 116 777 players a success ?
MW2 is a success when you look at the sales, when you look at the review and the people still playing it online, maybe it's not such a success.

Argumenting on the game list I provided is a bit pointless, do you agree that big studios, with lots of experience and several FPS under their belt, can FAIL ?

Don't you think it's a bit careless to go all the way with DUST ?

Remina Hesto
Posted - 2010.07.10 14:43:00 - [33]
 

I hate FPSs on console in general. Comes from years of playing Doom/Doom II/Quake/Quake II. I need my keyboard and mouse to control my crosshair properly and be outstandingly accurate even at point-blank range. What I like in FPS is the story/campaign-mode, where you fight hordes of space monsters with only a shotgun, nerves of steel and potentially health packs (when lucky). That's what RPG FPS players like, which should be the target audience of CCP since they, you know, make MMORPGs originally.

Massive Multiplayer FPS is a complete turnoff for me, and probably a lot of my carebearish brethren. We still like shooting people, mind you, just that we prefer to shoot terrorists (replace with Sansha robozombies, if you want) in the head with a sniper rifle rather then twitchrun for 5 minutes in hope that you don't get killed too often and respawn and have to grab all your stuff again... and again.... and again...

So yeah, I don't expect much from Dust, other then a huge CCP budget invested in uselessness that people will play for 2-3 months maybe and not bring anything to the EVE community except maybe the odd PI being destroyed by the odd Dusty raids. Like almost all FPS, it will be forgotten very quickly, getting GREAT REVIEWS from paid reviewers that don't know good games from bad ones, just like all Unreal 3-engined FPS twitchgame.

I know my (and our, actually) opinions doesn't matter much to the devs, but a good action FPS with an awesome story would actually be memorable, unlike generic scifi MMOFPS 514. I know more people who played Halo for the story/action then for the AWESOME.jpg multiplayer mode.

tl;dr Dust will just be another FPS in an endless sea of FPS. And will fail accordingly.

Ghoest
Posted - 2010.07.10 14:46:00 - [34]
 

I would like "2142" meets "PlanetSide' - but for PC

Gibbetto
Posted - 2010.07.10 15:02:00 - [35]
 

I thought Dust was just a way to make the player base pay for WIS development.

Squat Hardpeck
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.07.10 15:11:00 - [36]
 

I hate it when it gets all over my desk.

Admiral Takia
Caldari
Interstellar Waste Management Committee
Posted - 2010.07.10 15:18:00 - [37]
 

I would personally love to see it rts style, but that's just me (i suck at fps anyway). However I will be buying dust no questions asked and will play it until eve dies.

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.07.10 15:49:00 - [38]
 

I like Rainbow Six Vegas 2, even though I would prefer the gameplay-style of Raven shield and old Ghost Recon.
Vegas 2 is fun in coop mode, as is Gears of War. I play those with my little brother on Xbox360.

I don't have a console, FPS games don't interest me on consoles per-se (no mouse + keyboard). And judging by Eve, I doubt Dust is bugfree.

But the direction some seems to go is the wrong way -> No mods. No mods means no longevity, no customization. Everyone benefits from mods, even game companies since they sell even more copies.

The fact that Eve doesn't even allow UI mods...every MMO I have played allows them and not in any of those have I NOT replaced the default. Simply because it's a matter of taste and what I need.
Try to convince me Eve wouldn't benefit from the UI getting modded, please.

But back to Dust. No, wont buy, don't care, I dont care if Im the only one in the world not having it.

Ghonner Rea
Posted - 2010.07.10 17:38:00 - [39]
 

Dust,.. hmm.. does it have sound?

Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.07.10 17:49:00 - [40]
 

I really like CCP, but their decisions leave much to be understood.

Fact they cant fix/finish content and they rather make new half working stuff is a shame. There for I secretly hope dust fails and they loose millions :/. Only then will they realise they should focus more on EVE and less on future stuff that takes years to develop and leaves current half working content in the dust (pun intended).


Fistme
Posted - 2010.07.10 18:35:00 - [41]
 

dust is gana have a large influx of players at the start as do all fresh shooters. After the initial surge of evers and consolers the game will deflate as all shooters do. I'd expect the game to have a small population of dedicated players post release surge. Dust will also be competing in a market where there are similar games, very different to the competition eve faces.

Game has got to be extremely good if it's going to last in a genre with 5+ new titles every year. overall it will not ever be the cashcow eve is or really any of the established fps titles. dust = failgame as far as i'm concerned, just look at the xm8 assault rifle ripoff, not even original...

Spades Slick
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.10 18:41:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Fistme
dust is gana have a large influx of players at the start as do all fresh shooters. After the initial surge of evers and consolers the game will deflate as all shooters do. I'd expect the game to have a small population of dedicated players post release surge. Dust will also be competing in a market where there are similar games, very different to the competition eve faces.

Game has got to be extremely good if it's going to last in a genre with 5+ new titles every year. overall it will not ever be the cashcow eve is or really any of the established fps titles. dust = failgame as far as i'm concerned, just look at the xm8 assault rifle ripoff, not even original...


Well, damn, you're right.

Those ground vehicles shouldn't have wheels, for that matter -- wheels are outdated! And who uses bullets anymore? They should be using telekinesis guns.

Nothing is allowed to resemble anything that exists in real life in games.

Fistme
Posted - 2010.07.10 19:21:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Spades Slick


Well, damn, you're right.


Nothing is allowed to resemble anything that exists in real life in games.


Using a 20th century failed prototype gun as the model for an assault rifle used thousands of years in the future seems rather.... um... stupid?Rolling Eyes It would be one thing if the gun actually looked like something unique and then was integrated into the game/fiction, example would be the prototype fleshlette rifle developed during the 70s that is surprisingly similar to the pulse rifle used in the movie "aliens"(2nd one). The issue is that the xm8 is widely known, and not even that futuristic looking... In short, don't copy it.


Kephael
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.07.10 19:27:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Kephael on 10/07/2010 19:27:24
Originally by: Danghor
I'm still amazed at the enormous risk CCP is taking for Dust. Many studios have developed failed shooters even after many years of trying and several releases.

I don't understand why CCP didn't try to release a simple shooter, just to see how they'd do with the reviews and the sales, then learn from it before doing the big jump. I don't think people will have patience for a failed shooter, there are so many good shooters that have been played by gamers in the last 10 years, our level of expectation is getting higher mainly because of Crytek, Valve, Activision, EA and Ubisoft who push the envelop every 2 years or so. And even those big names can fumble with the right recipe for success.

I think the right move would have been :
-Release of first single player (with MP) shooter by CCP in 2010. Sci-Fi storyline or whatever.
-Put all hands on improving the UI and other problems with EVE
-Check out the failure (my prediction) of Stargate Worlds by Sky Fire (Unknown company in the shooter world like CCP)
-Learn from mistakes of the 2 previously mentioned games
-Creation of 2nd shooter until you hit a 8.0+ review on Gamespot
-Creation of DUST.


Here's a very short list of failed shooters. I failed them based on :
- the hype before the release and how those games just melted after release
- Studio with experience getting a bad review.
- Franchise deflating.

I've played PC games since 1996, I consider a shooter worth playing when it's around 8.5 on gamespot, below that rating it's a huge gamble and might be a big waste of time, but there are exceptions.

Here's a short list of FAILED games :

Timeshift by Sierra FAIL
Area 51 by Midway FAIL
Serious Sam II by 2k Games FAIL
FEAR 2 by Warner Bros FAIL
Red Faction II by THQ FAIL
Chrome by Strategy First FAIL
Killing Floor by Tripwire interactive FAIL
Singularity by Activision FAIL
Unreal II: The Awakening by ATARi FAIL
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Clear Sky by Koch Media FAIL
Medal of Honor: Airborne by EA FAIL
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 by Activision FAIL
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2 by UbiSoft FAIL
Alien VS Predator 2010 by SEGA FAIL

Unreal 2 was fun, but too short.

Earthican
Minmatar
DARKFELL EXCURSIONS
Reverberation Project
Posted - 2010.07.10 19:53:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Danghor

Area 51 by Midway FAIL



The arcade version of this game is one of the best games of all time IMHO.

The trick to real enjoyment of it was(is) to play 2 player grab a gun in each hand, stand back and go nuts.

If you never beat the game playing 2P yourself, you never beat the game.


As for DUST it will be the only 1st person shooter on the market that gets continued support and upgrades including new maps. Either this will revolutionize the market or take it over.
So what if it gets off to a slow start, the companies that make these games now barely even notice when that happens. They have forgotten about the game before it hits the shelves being so busy on the next game which is the same game but with new maps.

Simeon Tor
Picon Fleet
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:30:00 - [46]
 

I try to stay at least 100ft from any consoles at all times so I have to ask, how long does a console game last for? I mean consoles go out of fasion pretty fast from what I can see.

Terazuk
Amarr
Servants of Drawnon
Posted - 2010.07.10 21:23:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: AlleyKat
Dust 514 will be the greatest sci-fi console FPS ever. period. Those players that pwn; will be famous. Those that suck; will be ousted with extreme prejudice. Bring it.

This tbqfh!

Flaws be damned, I can't help but feel a little trepidation over the fortunes of my beautiful and beloved Eve. Especially when entrusted to the capricious and notoriously fickle console market.

That said, I'm really quite in love with DUST 514 as a concept... The best of the best in-game will practically have a blank check to do their thing, extinction level orbital strikes on command and all the toys they could possibly want, e-accolades to boot. Who will be the BOB of the Dust crowd? I personally can't wait to find out.

Call me mad but I fully intend to purchase the appropriate console + dust immediately upon release. I'll also be purchasing a couple of copies for my parents too, avid gamers that they also are!

I also reserve the right to decide it's crap and whinge endlessly about how much CCP suck after getting my face pwned repeatedly by 11 yr olds.

Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.07.10 21:24:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Guilliman R on 10/07/2010 21:24:21
Dust wont be a success if it relies on massive patches for extra content. Consoles don't have near infinite storage much like a PC has.

And if patches would be mandatory to play online, then the game will fail big time.

democrities
Zebra Corp
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.07.10 23:39:00 - [49]
 

Does is gonna fail big time. It will be the battlefield earth of Eve. Why is any corp gonna sponsor a dust corp to conquer planets when PI and everything u get from it sucks balls anyway?

Spades Slick
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.10 23:42:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Earthican
As for DUST it will be the only 1st person shooter on the market that gets continued support and upgrades including new maps.


I take it you have NEVER played a game by Valve... or anything made in the past 10 years, for that matter.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Dust, interested to see what happens with it... but I just gotta nip that line of thought in the bud right here and now.

Sekretarka
Posted - 2010.07.11 11:41:00 - [51]
 

It is true that Dust is economical risk for CCP, however it is a calcualted risk. CCP empoys very smart people that know the market, also it is not that hard to outsource the market research and predictions.

Most of the most popular console FPS have several things in common:

Good multiplayer experience, that is enhanced by frequent map packs,
Some king of experince progression and unlocking of weapons/stuff,
Ranking and competitiveness.

Now dust is multiplayer, has player progression beyond games currently present on the market, can definitely have some kind of player/corporation ranking and on top of that is has the MMO persistence element, which makes it easier for players to make long term investment in the game.

Also, most console players buy FPS for their online multiplayer longevity, of which dust has mountains.

Each copy of Dust will probably sell for regular console game price, so there already is money for CCP. On top of that there are microtransactions in place to provide additional income, even if the game doesn;t sell great initially.

In this thread, Dust has been discussed with games that are nothing like Dust. Dust is quiet unique project, with only maybe MAG on PS3 that could be its competition. It's MMOFPS, not just FPS.

Simeon Tor
Picon Fleet
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2010.07.11 11:47:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Spades Slick

I take it you have NEVER played a game by Valve... or anything made in the past 10 years, for that matter.


I think he meant on consoles.

Zeredek
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.07.11 12:35:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Zeredek on 11/07/2010 12:35:06
Originally by: Danghor

-Creation of 2nd shooter until you hit a 8.0+ review on Gamespot

I stopped reading right there.

Also my view on dust:
Linkage

Tyrolen
Valkyr Industries
Posted - 2010.07.11 13:00:00 - [54]
 

If you think MWF2 failed, you have pretty large perception problems.

Remina Hesto
Posted - 2010.07.11 13:09:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Tyrolen
If you think MWF2 failed, you have pretty large perception problems.


The fact that it gets amazingly boring after 10 hours of gameplay does make it a failed game. Even though it sold millions of copies. I liked the first MW better.

Kiritsubo
Ritual Suicide
Posted - 2010.07.11 13:16:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: AlleyKat

I'd make some premium coffee, with beans that completed their fresh roasting less than 48 hours before I hit them with 93.7 degrees of filtered water.


Why would you make your coffee with lukewarm water?

Faye Valerii
Caldari
Exeunt Omnes
Posted - 2010.07.11 14:46:00 - [57]
 

I'd give Dust a chance IF it would be coming out on PC as well ... However, as others have said, if it stays on console it will (at best) peter out after a few months.

Krecian
Gallente
Essence of Decay
Black Cartel.
Posted - 2010.07.11 14:47:00 - [58]
 

I love the concept, as it attempts to take the two game types into one universe without forcing the player-types together (like Fallen Earth, APB, and to a lesser extend Borderlands). It also gives people like myself who like both genres a chance to work with the game type we feel like playing while staying in a universe they love. I'm excited at possible prospects for skills equipment in Eve that may be attempted in the future (orbital artillery from the Eve pilots, anyone? LOL).

My only disappointment? I hate shooters on consoles, I hate aiming with a controller with a screaming passion, so I don't see myself buying Dust unless it has a PC port.

John Ellsworth
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.11 16:01:00 - [59]
 

I thought trolling was not allowed on this board.?
To answer a question , I welcome Dust 514 with open arms , and personally believe it will be the "WoW Killer" that so many game companies actively seek.

/Salute CCP on Dust 514 Laughing

Amerilia
Posted - 2010.07.11 16:08:00 - [60]
 

I hate DUST, for it drew the dev resources that could have been used on EVE. Just look at the last two expansions, theyre hollow. And PI can be coded quite fast if you have skilled programmers Confused.

Furthermore I will likely never play it, since I dont own an XBox/PS3 and I doubt it will come out for Wii.


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