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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.09 12:59:00 - [91]
 

Hehe I am shocked you didn't know it was Clarke! Razz

Madner Kami
Gallente
Durendal Ascending
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2010.07.09 13:20:00 - [92]
 

Lack of coffee does terrible things to my mind.

Caldari Citizen20090217
Posted - 2010.07.09 13:25:00 - [93]
 

4 pages and noone has mentioned the Enheduanni? If theres a conspiracy theory involving the older races, manipulation and general skullduggery, then it was probably these fellas.

More info in this thread courtesy of Pottsey.

VanNostrum
Posted - 2010.07.09 13:34:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: David Grogan
Originally by: DuKackBoon
The Jovian disease was caused by the Jovians themselves, due to centuries of cloning and making flawed copies of flawed copies.


i still cant understand why a race would choose cloning over sex as a way to reproduce...........sex is fun ....cloning is boring


because sex wouldn't produce the best of the best offsprings when they could just alter some genes to produce super-humans (or super-joves) in labs.

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.09 14:12:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 09/07/2010 14:12:26
Originally by: Madner Kami
Edited by: Madner Kami on 09/07/2010 11:31:32
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Cool... But I have to correct you there... The reference would be more to the original book from Arthur C. Clarke, on which the movie was based :P


Didn't have enough coffee today and was tooo lazy to check who wrote the book and hence didn't refer to it. Beyond that, the look is 2001-only, since Clarke described it quite different. In fact, it was a pyramid there ;)


In the version I read the monolith was clearly described as being 1 by 4 by 9 in size, clearly defining it as a manufactured object... Dunno if Clarke did a rewrite of the novel once Kubrick made the movie... That is possible.

Edit: Also, I shall stop derailing the thread :P

Zofe Stormcaller
B4D W0LF
B4D W01F
Posted - 2010.07.09 14:40:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Zofe Stormcaller on 09/07/2010 14:48:07
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Originally by: Madner Kami
Edited by: Madner Kami on 09/07/2010 10:06:11
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Myrkala: Ahem... What's the Monolith? :D


First and foremost, a reference to 2001: A Space Odyssey, a movie by Stanley Kubrick. Oddly enough it also makes a cameo in w-space:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3593/monolith.png


Cool... But I have to correct you there... The reference would be more to the original book from Arthur C. Clarke, on which the movie was based :P


Planet 5 moon 5 in the "dead end" system near New Eden in Amarr lowsec IIRC. I highly recommend going there, bring a secure container and anchor it in New Eden while you are there.

ETA they also show uo in plexes, missions and anoms from time to tome

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2010.07.09 15:11:00 - [97]
 

I think the monolith proves W-space is new eden in another time.

Quote:
The word derives from the Latin word monolithus from the Greek word μονόλιθος (monolithos), derived from μόνος ("one" or "single") and λίθος ("stone").

Bunds
L D U
Posted - 2010.07.09 15:20:00 - [98]
 

some great post in here

best topic on here in a long timeWink

Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2010.07.09 18:31:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Eventy One on 09/07/2010 18:31:23
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe
I think the monolith proves W-space is new eden in another time.

Quote:
The word derives from the Latin word monolithus from the Greek word μονόλιθος (monolithos), derived from μόνος ("one" or "single") and λίθος ("stone").



There's the monolith, and then there is that statue on top of the floating debris that points off in some direction. (Someone told me once, they all point to the same point in space).

I suppose the question is - there's clearly a lot of interest in this subject - what's our strategy for figuring it out?

Jove X
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2010.07.09 19:55:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Jove X on 09/07/2010 19:55:59
I think CCP Dropbear's clue here, is very telling.

He's made the comparison between Oruze Osobnyk and the etymological quirky origin of the word denim from Serikos de Nimes (silk from Nimes). He points out Serikos de Nimes was shortened to denim.

This implies we should be trying to desconstruct some of the clues (linguistic or otherwise) we find with the Sleepers and Talocan structures.

If so ... what quirky origin could Osobnyk have?

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.10 08:21:00 - [101]
 

Unfortunately my linguistic skills are very poor and that is not something I can help with.

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.10 09:56:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
Unfortunately my linguistic skills are very poor and that is not something I can help with.


Unfortunately it's the same for me... But imho the linguistic way isn't the best one... I have something like a feeling that there's an in game way to understand the meaning of that word...

Jove X
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:49:00 - [103]
 

Doesn't Oruze = Oruse?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:54:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Jove X
Doesn't Oruze = Oruse?

Anyone go and check the wormholes out leading from there out. Maybe there's a frequent link to an otherwise hidden/isolated w-space system.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2010.07.10 22:01:00 - [105]
 

this thread souly has sparked my interest in the RPG elements of this game.

so what was hinted was the starting point to some information / next step in the story.

wormholes are clearly the doorway. perhaps there are other clues such as "when to look" as well as where.

must admit I love a good adventure / mystery.

Reldor Silverheart
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.10 22:14:00 - [106]
 

I have read alot of theese threads but i do have somewhat of a theory, what if the jovians, sleepers and talocans actually share the same origin, all we know is that they all branch back 12000 years ago.

My thought is tho they are of the same origin, something caused a split, perhaps it happened naturally perhaps through internal conflict. Possibility is that after decades or milennias of frustration towards eachother war broke up. Jovians had developed one way while the talocans another, in the end the jovians unleashed the virus against the talocans.

Truth to be told i do not know how well this theory hold up, but again it is simply a theory.

Chibuku Tensei
Posted - 2010.07.10 23:51:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Reldor Silverheart
I have read alot of theese threads but i do have somewhat of a theory, what if the jovians, sleepers and talocans actually share the same origin, all we know is that they all branch back 12000 years ago.

My thought is tho they are of the same origin, something caused a split, perhaps it happened naturally perhaps through internal conflict. Possibility is that after decades or milennias of frustration towards eachother war broke up. Jovians had developed one way while the talocans another, in the end the jovians unleashed the virus against the talocans.

Truth to be told i do not know how well this theory hold up, but again it is simply a theory.


I got a tin foil hat and i would like to put it on and join you in this.

What if the sleeps talocans and the other old race's became the Jovians and later abaddoned there wormholes that they used to make a virus to allow them to live forever with out the need for clones.

The virus did not work as they hoped and slowy killed them all and they left the old sleeper drones to guard the sites to make sure the virus could never be spread again.

Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2010.07.11 07:32:00 - [108]
 

My bet is that the Sansha's are re-animated 'sleepers'. I base this on the report ISHAEKA-0016 which classifies the sleeper culture as a 'download culture'.

Sansha's use implants. Sleepers are master of virtual reality. What if they are trying to break back out of their Virtual Reality?

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.07.11 07:47:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 11/07/2010 07:52:27
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Originally by: Pottsey
Unfortunately my linguistic skills are very poor and that is not something I can help with.


Unfortunately it's the same for me... But imho the linguistic way isn't the best one... I have something like a feeling that there's an in game way to understand the meaning of that word...


Aye, an approach could be to compare two things nearly identical:
Originally by: The Oruze Construct

The mysterious structure inside this deadspace pocket offers few clues as to the purpose it once served. An enclave positioned at the heart of the construct appears to have been entirely redesigned in some way, to serve a goal now long-forgotten. The only insight into the unique architecture is the word “Oruze,” which continually resurfaces throughout the garbled, largely indecipherable transmissions that emanate from within.


Originally by: Oruze Osobnyk

The mysterious structure inside this deadspace pocket offers few clues as to the purpose it once served. Similar compounds -- albeit far less complex than this one -- have been reported, each featuring the same huddled architecture, evocative of the enigmatic Phantom cruiser. What relation the “Oruze” structures may have to one another remains a mystery. An enclave positioned at the heart of the construct appears to have been entirely redesigned. It is flanked by two others, which in turn are hedged in by engineering stations that themselves seem to have been redesigned. The only insight into the unique architecture is the word “Oruze Osobnyk,” which continually resurfaces throughout the garbled, largely indecipherable transmissions that emanate from within.



Now to find out what those modifications are and what makes an "Oruze" an "Osobnyk" requires a bit more digging.

Madner Kami
Gallente
Durendal Ascending
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2010.07.11 08:50:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Eventy One
My bet is that the Sansha's are re-animated 'sleepers'. I base this on the report ISHAEKA-0016 which classifies the sleeper culture as a 'download culture'.

Sansha's use implants. Sleepers are master of virtual reality. What if they are trying to break back out of their Virtual Reality?


Close, I think, but not entirely correct. It is established, that the Sansha are not an ancient culture of their own. They're basically an ex-business-venture of a calamari businessmen, who went all cyberpunk on his followers and made a bunch of technozombies out of them, which the >current< main-empires deemed too dangerous for themselves, at least as long as someone else does it.
However your assumption about them >now< having ties with the sleepers, is entirely possible, given their man-machine status and sleepers most likely not beeing any more then empty shells whose brains have been transfered into megacomputers and the recent Sansha-activity makes this seem likely. However you should also not forget, that Sanshas themselves are masters of technology as well and so their WH-abilities and -activities could be entirely based on their own efforts, without any sleeper connection.

Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Aye, an approach could be to compare two things nearly identical:

[...]

Now to find out what those modifications are and what makes an "Oruze" an "Osobnyk" requires a bit more digging.



I'll jump into the breach and state the obvious: Oruze simply either means "habitat" or "module" or "enclave" or something along that line.
Although it seems to specifically refer to the redesigned complex-module, so it could also mean: "module redesigned for specific purpose x" or much much more simpler: "redesigned module" or "repurposed module".

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.11 09:14:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Eventy One
My bet is that the Sansha's are re-animated 'sleepers'. I base this on the report ISHAEKA-0016 which classifies the sleeper culture as a 'download culture'.

Sansha's use implants. Sleepers are master of virtual reality. What if they are trying to break back out of their Virtual Reality?

I always thought that Sansha's Nation was created by the use of Capsule technology. Which makes sense in as such that with some modifications you get people controlled by implants instead of people controlling ships through implants.

So in effect, Sansha himself could run his whole nation pretty much like a Capsuleer can run a ship. Using the True Slaves as a kind of neural command network relay that control the lower drones in a hierarchical pyramid pattern. One pod to rule them all, so to say.

And when the "pilot" of the Nation got removed the remnants were just doing routine maintenance tasks, at least until a new head came back recently, be it the original, a backup clone or a impostor.

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.11 10:49:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Madner Kami
Close, I think, but not entirely correct. It is established, that the Sansha are not an ancient culture of their own. They're basically an ex-business-venture of a calamari businessmen, who went all cyberpunk on his followers and made a bunch of technozombies out of them, which the >current< main-empires deemed too dangerous for themselves, at least as long as someone else does it.
However your assumption about them >now< having ties with the sleepers, is entirely possible, given their man-machine status and sleepers most likely not beeing any more then empty shells whose brains have been transfered into megacomputers and the recent Sansha-activity makes this seem likely. However you should also not forget, that Sanshas themselves are masters of technology as well and so their WH-abilities and -activities could be entirely based on their own efforts, without any sleeper connection.


Yeah I agree... The history of Sansha is not really that secret, at least in its beginning. It's though totally possible that after they went "into hiding" they discovered new techs (or developed them themselves). The recent opening of WHs means they could have got into wspace by the means which are common to us all but their superior tech means they could have found a way to infiltrate the Sleeper network and gain some technological insight, up to the point where they can create artificial wormholes to about whenever they like? The forays in Jove space could mean they are out in a tech scavenging hunt...

Originally by: Madner Kami
I'll jump into the breach and state the obvious: Oruze simply either means "habitat" or "module" or "enclave" or something along that line.
Although it seems to specifically refer to the redesigned complex-module, so it could also mean: "module redesigned for specific purpose x" or much much more simpler: "redesigned module" or "repurposed module".


It's possible but given the emphasis Dropbear has put on the term I'd say it's something more important... Certainly the fact that it specifically says that the Osobnyk is much larger (and thus probably more important) though still related to those other facilities we know is interesting. Perhaps it's some sort of command center, an important network hub? Knowing what those structures are would help us in this...

Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric
The Polaris Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.11 13:22:00 - [113]
 

I guess i gather some stuffs here:

World on fire chronicle This chronicle is about the Seyllin planet 1 getting shattered. Its sleepers ship in the chronicle pic?
Another linky
Apparently shattered planets, sleepers and wormholes have something in common? According to the chronicle all planets were shattered at same time. All planets including null sec, wspace and some unrecorded ones?
Also, shattered planets are the first planet in the system and all systems have same type of star.

Oruze osobnyk
Vitrauze project
They have something in common?


Curious comments by CCP Jasonitas
"If you find two dinosaur fossils in the same spot, it's not always wise to assume the animals lived concurrently."
"...Discovering the ancient world requires thinking in at least four dimensions"
Linkage

Anyways, my guess is that Talocans are still here since there is no really evidence that they died.
Also theres the funny pop up when warping to some sleeper site which says something like: "You are not alone, perhaps you never were"
Furthermore, the Talocan technology skill says that they were masters of hypereauclidean mathematics AND theres a non-public Electronic-skill called Hypereauclidean Navigation which suggests that Talocans were masters of cloaking. So conclusion is that Talocans have been afk cloaking for few millenia

Chwho Bacca
Posted - 2010.07.11 14:21:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Chwho Bacca on 11/07/2010 14:21:24
Thanks OP for the fascinating post, it felt like an unofficial Eve EON Magazine issue.

Very Very interesting, this has potential.

Subspace communication within local chat inside wormhole space adding story lines of the "Sleeper/Jove" relation letting us see different sides to WHS is a great idea.

It will slowly bring in another expansion that will one day exist.

I think its a great idea if this really is what is brewing in the CCP offices. Think of the storyline that could come from this, think of the expansions that could be released, even another universe that would deal with the story line after the Jove/Sleeper story gets old - Bringing in another story line for the other ancients.

Great read OP! Thank you. :)

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:12:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 11/07/2010 18:12:52
Originally by: Razor Blue
I guess i gather some stuffs here:

World on fire chronicle This chronicle is about the Seyllin planet 1 getting shattered. Its sleepers ship in the chronicle pic?
Another linky
Apparently shattered planets, sleepers and wormholes have something in common? According to the chronicle all planets were shattered at same time. All planets including null sec, wspace and some unrecorded ones?
Also, shattered planets are the first planet in the system and all systems have same type of star.

Not sure about Sleepers (though the ships in the image do appear to have some points in common with sleeper ships (namely the tendril like structures in the prow), but from the chronicle IMHO we can safely say that the shattered planets were caused by the "Seylinn Incident", which opened the access to wspace. They were planets in systems which had a blue star and were triggered remotely from the explosions of Isogen-5. I doubt they have any other significance...

More interesting is the fact that either the Blood Raiders were fooled into triggering the event or, more probably, if was foreseen by an ancient race. Which race? No idea, chronicle doesn't hint in any direction. If it wasn't for the fact that Sansha are new I'd have said that given their current interest in WHs it could have been them, but I doubt they had such technology in the first place.
Something more ancient and with perhaps some ties to wormhole studies, time travel and the like are better candidates, though I don't know if there even is such a race.

Also: "Not an entire fleet," the president repeated, pacing back and forth. "But, say, a pack of cloaked Marauders, using a direct portal between Luminaire and New Caldari—"
Fouritain has no clue Laughing

Originally by: Razor Blue

Curious comments by CCP Jasonitas
"If you find two dinosaur fossils in the same spot, it's not always wise to assume the animals lived concurrently."
"...Discovering the ancient world requires thinking in at least four dimensions"
Linkage

Well, Jasonitas's reply is interesting but not really strange. I mean, assuming that because Egyptians live in the land of the Pharaohs they must descend from that culture or be in someway dependent is quite deceiving or, at best, naive.
Though what does this mean for us? Well I don't know which structures are "Talocans" and which "Sleeper", but if the Quarantine Zone we have been examining here is Talocan then we may very well be very wrong about the Sleeper drones being a "derived culture".

I find much more interesting the hypotesis about the WHs sending us in the future... It would open unexplored possibilities... Though the age data in stars and so on would have to be more thoroughly confirmed (and since the planet/star data has always been a little "random" I don't know how much faith we can put on it).

Originally by: Razor Blue

Anyways, my guess is that Talocans are still here since there is no really evidence that they died.
Also theres the funny pop up when warping to some sleeper site which says something like: "You are not alone, perhaps you never were"
Furthermore, the Talocan technology skill says that they were masters of hypereauclidean mathematics AND theres a non-public Electronic-skill called Hypereauclidean Navigation which suggests that Talocans were masters of cloaking. So conclusion is that Talocans have been afk cloaking for few millenia


I Lol'ed :D

(Damn char limit... Another post incoming!)

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:21:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
More interesting is the fact that either the Blood Raiders were fooled into triggering the event or, more probably, if was foreseen by an ancient race. Which race? No idea, chronicle doesn't hint in any direction. If it wasn't for the fact that Sansha are new I'd have said that given their current interest in WHs it could have been them, but I doubt they had such technology in the first place.
Something more ancient and with perhaps some ties to wormhole studies, time travel and the like are better candidates, though I don't know if there even is such a race.

The incident was facilitated by the Jove who gave the Thukker people some code to get around the Rogue Drones at the Isogen-5 hive, which allowed them to pop the whole thing. If anyone knew what was going to happen, it was the Jove. Hell, they may have sealed off w-space to begin with to keep the plague out of the cluster.

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:33:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Razor Blue

Oruze osobnyk
Vitrauze project
They have something in common?


Well... It certainly looks like they did find the structures in wspace but... The more I read that chronicle the more I feel like there's A LOT of info there.

IE:
To the Amarr, "Vitra" meant simply "life." Life itself. The Gallentean understanding of the word was more subtle, however. To them it meant "living."
Different in the way sunrise and sunset are, she thought.
--
This time, there was no life in Hilen's eyes, and it was telling her to go.
Once again into the darkness, and for a moment she could almost feel that wind on her face, as the data that represented who she was failed to cross the river back home.

It seems that Lianda was somehow contacted by some kind of projection from the structures, a projection that managed to simulate Hilen while still being "unliving". Sounds very much like an AI. But later it seems Lianda is once again talking to Hilen himself... Everything is a little hazy...

Other things:
"The password, the one she entered. The incorrect string?"
"I will put aside any questions I have about how you would have access to such a thing and ask you to come to the point."
"It's a locus."
"I see."

Locus could mean either THIS (genetics) or THIS (mathematics). The genetic explanation since more likely since the mathematic locus could mean a lot of things...
Now on the other hand, the locus of a gene is a very interesting thing indeed... IE it could indicate which gene is targeted by a specific illness... Get my point? Or in truth a lot of other things, but it's interesting nonetheless (even though it doesn't tell us much by itself).

Also I have this feeling, though it's basically just that, that Lianda got somehow integrated into some kind of network, like the one supposedly shared by Sleeper drones... And I also have this feeling that this was in someway the expected outcome of the Vitrauze project. And thus perhaps the locus cited above is the only message Lianda managed to get through?
Imagination here is running with the mwd on, can't help it, but it doesn't seem.... that unlikely.

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:38:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 11/07/2010 18:43:40
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
More interesting is the fact that either the Blood Raiders were fooled into triggering the event or, more probably, if was foreseen by an ancient race. Which race? No idea, chronicle doesn't hint in any direction. If it wasn't for the fact that Sansha are new I'd have said that given their current interest in WHs it could have been them, but I doubt they had such technology in the first place.
Something more ancient and with perhaps some ties to wormhole studies, time travel and the like are better candidates, though I don't know if there even is such a race.

The incident was facilitated by the Jove who gave the Thukker people some code to get around the Rogue Drones at the Isogen-5 hive, which allowed them to pop the whole thing. If anyone knew what was going to happen, it was the Jove. Hell, they may have sealed off w-space to begin with to keep the plague out of the cluster.


Sources?
I'd like to comment only after having read the original source but I kinda think that while the Jove may have known what was going to happen, they weren't the race that prepared everything in the first place.

Edit: I keep rereading that chronicle...

Quote:
She was watching the people of Seyllin die on live holovision when they came for her.

Lianda. I must warn you, my child, no matter the risk. The Senate has learned of the appearance of new, stable wormholes, leading to unknown areas of space. You must not involve yourself in this matter. There will be a time and a place for your research to continue. Please, for the sake of everything you have worked for, lie low.

They told her CreoDron had only asked for one person. On the display, a darkened and burning orb glowed in brilliant shades of blue. Millions must have been there, she thought, trapped inside a dying planet.

They said this was the kind of help that would matter more tomorrow, when today had taken what it would from them all. Strangely poetic, the ones they had decided to send for her. Most likely no coincidence. They left her there. She would follow soon, once her affairs had been set in order. Those words, and the truth of them in her eyes when she stepped towards them so purposefully,

They had bought the privacy she would need to reach him.


Perhaps the "THEY" cited here are not of the Federation. Perhaps (or maybe even probably) they are Jove. Which would explain my hunch about the whole thing being intended. And then perhaps the locus was a needed info for the Jove, which have well known genetic problems...

Quote:
Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

- Hilen Tukoss. Program Director, Otosela Neuropsychology Center.


And this just strengthens my belief. As well as the fact that there is some kind of collaboration between Caldari and Gallente. An external force would explain it...

There's just so much info in that chronicle...

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:39:00 - [119]
 

Aren't wormhole systems named after their locus coordinates?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:47:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Sources?
I'd like to comment only after having read the original source but I kinda think that while the Jove may have known what was going to happen, they weren't the race that prepared everything in the first place.

Sorry, got my memory mixed up. Thought the Thukkers hacked the drones but instead the Blood Raiders did get the code from their boss. Though it may have been provided by the Society of Conscious thought. Chronicle: End of the World, The Great Harvest


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