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Deep Analysis
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.04 23:44:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Deep Analysis on 04/07/2010 23:45:39
Hi, I would like to better understand tanking mechanics and fits. I specifically would like to know:

1. The difference between passive, active, and buffer tanking.
2. What a mix might look like, although I think I understand why mixing is bad.
3. As a Caldari (diff toon) my PVE ratting char should be focused on active or passive for best results ratting.
4. Should I be looking in EFT at Effective Hit Points or Defence or something else?
5. Can you give me examples of active/passive mods, for example I assume invuls are active and shield extenders are passive?
6. I tried some setups in EFT and it seemed boosters/amplifiers always gave me a ton less EFHP and used tons more CPU - are they not good? But I see tons of fits for tengu and ravens with boosters, especially faction.

Thank you kindly for any good responses.

Razz

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.07.05 00:38:00 - [2]
 

  1. Passive only works on shields by increasing the HP amount and decreasing the shield recharge time by adding a combination of, most commonly, shield extenders, shield power relays, and power diagnostics units (shield rechargers and shield flux units are usually less effective). You tank by improving on the passive regen of the shield.

    Active works by adding a repair unit — either a shield booster or an armour repper. Either way, you tank by trading capacitor for HP.

    Buffer tanking simply means that you add more HP by slapping on shield extenders or armour plates.

  2. A mix would simply be combinations of the aforementioned modules. It's bad because it only leaves you with two weak tanks, rather than a single strong one. There are two (semi)exceptions: passive shield tanks will usually contain a measure of buffer tanking and vice versa, since increasing the shield buffer also improves on the passive regen; and bait tanks, where the whole point is to add as much (buffer) HP as possible, regardless of whether it's shield, armour or even hull.

  3. Both. The choice between active and passive very much depends on the ship, so a blanket answer can't be given (and you'll want the same skills regardless).

  4. Effective for buffer tanks; defence for the other variants.

  5. Active: armour repper, shield booster (and shield boost amplifier).
    Passive: shield power relay, shield extender, power diagnostics unit.

    Modules that affect your resistances don't really come into it — they're just there to make whatever tank you fit more effective and efficient. You can have a passive tank while still using active hardeners (a passive tank + resist amplifiers is usually called "capless" since it doesn't need cap to work).

  6. EHP is only really of interest if you're running a buffer tank; if you're active tanking EHP only matters as far as letting you survive from one rep cycle to the next, which usually isn't much.

    Most commonly, buffers are used for PvP (and some of the harder kinds of PvE) because you can count on there being enough incoming DPS to overwhelm any kind of active or passive tank you can carry on a single ship — you just want as much EHP as possible to stay alive for as long as possible in the face of all that incoming fire. In particular, you want enough EHP to stay alive until someone can get some remote reps on you…

    Regenerative tanks, whether they're active or passive, are used for (relatively) low-DPS situations such as PvE, when you can survive indefinitely by simply out-regenerating the incoming damage.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.07.05 00:47:00 - [3]
 

1. Solar cells, wall socket and batteries, respectively.

2. Running a computer directly on solar cells and from the wall socket. Imagine the trouble.

3. PVE ratting where? What ship class? Drakes are fine passive, but don't expect fast kills.

4. Generally Defence numbers, but if you're asking this, you need to get back and spend more time to study more on the ship's maths.

5. A simple definition of a passive mod is that it does not require capacitor/activation.

6. EHP is directly affected by mods that increase shield/armor/hull pts (such as Shield Extenders etc)
AND indirectly affected by mods that increase shield/armor/hull resistances (such as DCII, Invul etc.).

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2010.07.05 00:47:00 - [4]
 

Active tanking relies on a module (shield booster or armor repairer) to fix damage that you've taken. Passive tanking (shield only) relies on improving the natural recharge rate of the shields to accomplish the same thing. Buffer tanking is simply piling on the hit points through shield extenders, armor plates, and rigs; it makes it so the enemy has to do a lot more damage to you before you blow up. All versions typically use hardeners of one or more types to increase resistance to damage.

Mixing tank types is generally bad because you're wasting slots. Suppose you're shield tanking. You really don't need to devote all your low slots as well as your medium slots to tanking, because if you're doing it correctly they'll never get through your shields, so why are you fitting armor modules? Use damage mods or something else that's useful instead.

What you should focus on depends on the ship you're using when ratting.

Look at all the stats. EHP is a general representation of how much damage would have to be done to you at once to blow you up instantly. Defense is basically how many points of damage every second you're able to shrug off.

Active hardeners require you to turn them on, use capacitor energy while they are running, and give very little bonus while they are off. Passive modules use no capacitor and give full benefits the entire time they're fitted, as long as you don't go into the fitting screen and turn them offline.

EHP doesn't mesh well with active tanks, because there's no way to know how long a fight would last. Suppose EFT tells you that your raven has a reinforced defense of 479 against the damage profile you've selected. If you're taking damage that matches that profile in the amount of 600 points every second, then 121 is getting through every second. If you've killed that ship in 10 seconds you've only taken 1210 actual damage, while if it takes you 60 seconds you've taken 7260. The general rule is to use active tanks in PVE content, because the amount and type of incoming damage is both predictable and controllable. In PVP, no active tank in the world can survive the focused fire of an enemy fleet.

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2010.07.05 02:12:00 - [5]
 


Kerr avonn
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.05 08:58:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Kerr avonn on 05/07/2010 09:01:15
Originally by: Deep Analysis
Hi,


You really dont want to talk about tanking do you?
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
here lets look at some nice daisys
...i really like your name...Wink


Harkwyth Mist
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.05 15:43:00 - [7]
 

eve tanking guide



enjoy

Deep Analysis
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.05 19:26:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Kerr avonn
Edited by: Kerr avonn on 05/07/2010 09:01:15
Originally by: Deep Analysis
Hi,


You really dont want to talk about tanking do you?
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
here lets look at some nice daisys
...i really like your name...Wink




Thx for the pic - your special...

Deep Analysis
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.05 19:40:00 - [9]
 

thx for taking the time for these very helpful replies - much appreciated and made a lot of sense.

I was primarily asking about ratting 0.0 anomalies/plexes.


 

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