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blankseplocked [Proposal] Change Missile graphical effects to something... better
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Spades Slick
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.03 20:07:00 - [1]

Edited by: Spades Slick on 04/07/2010 02:09:16
Wouldn't it be nice if missiles came from somewhere OTHER than an invisible launcher in the center of your ship? Does the idea of making Torrent missiles live up to their name and bringing a storm of death and destruction on your opponents appeal to you? Then have I got a proposal for you!

Give missiles hardpoints, like turrets already have! And more importantly, NONE-CENTER origin points!

Benefit 1: Graphics!

The sheer coolness of my idea can be summarized in three words: Macross Missile Massacre. Now, before you guys freak out, I do NOT -- in ANY way -- want missile spam. My proposal is not to change the number of existing entities in a missile launch -- 8 grouped launchers fire only 8 missiles. But the simple fact is, missiles IRL don't simply follow the most direct route towards targets -- they need to be, well, LAUNCHED. Having these streaks of light emanate from launchers adds visceral excitement to the otherwise droll usage of missiles... and as a Drake pilot, God only knows how frustrating it is to HAVE launchers, but have them completely and utterly ignored. Come on, CCP, you can do better than that...

Benefit 2: In PVP or high-level PVE, you can check the fits of ships (roughly) visually, like turreted ships already can be.

"Oh crap... looks like that guy's got blasters (lol yeah right). Better keep my distance unless I want to be ganked by a noob." Seriously, now. We can already tell how a gunship is loaded (roughly) from a visual standpoint -- it's just an extra, sure, and ship scanners exist, but sometimes you wanna see if that Raven is a lightly-armed support ship... or a missile-laden banshee from hell.


Now, to address some opposing issues... others exist, and feel free to bring them up! Debate is good for these matters!

Counterpoint 1: This is just eye-candy! Not worth looking into! Other srs stuffz like lag needs attention from CCP!

I'll grant you that there are plenty of 'little things' that CCP could fix, but this proposal falls into the realm of things that would greatly improve the graphical treat that is EVE Online. I know I'm not the only missile guy out there, not by a longshot, but we seem to be pushed aside anyways. Balance issues, of course, are a big part of it, but so too is the pretty colors that other guys enjoy. Wow, how exciting! We fired an orb of white light at the enemy -- let's just say that it contains 6 missiles and let that be! Meanwhile, turret-users are able to get the visual experience of watching a broadside assault on the enemy, with anywhere from one or two to eight turrets unleashing their fury on the target. Missile guys get a single nondescript blob. If missiles could be treated as turrets, or even launched from designated 'missile bays' on ships, rather than the center of the ship, it would take EVE another step closer towards matching any offline spaceshipz games in the intensity of its graphics.

Counterpoint 2: But the server can't handle all those entities! Missiles are one blob because of how difficult it is to track them!

Really? Because you know, you CAN chain-fire (fire one at a time) launchers... may not be as efficient, but each launch generates a unique entity, and if you are moving as you launch (or if the target is moving), each has a unique track. Need I say more? Directly opposes this point. Next?

Spades Slick
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2010.07.03 20:12:00 - [2]

Edited by: Spades Slick on 03/07/2010 20:44:39
Edited by: Spades Slick on 03/07/2010 20:23:01
(continued from post 1...)

Counterpoint 3: But missiles can be fit on caps; and since missiles have flight times, the launchers that are farthest from the target may be JUST out of range!

This is true, and certainly a strong factor against my idea. I realize that the current turret weapons are essentially 'hitscan' weapons, with instantaneous impact when fired; missiles, however, are actual objects that have a programmed flight time. This said, my proposal addresses this; by introducing turreted missile launchers/bays, it would make it so that missiles are no farther from the target than regular gun turrets. Unless I'm very much mistaken, turrets have their range already predetermined by the center of the ship, NOT by where the turrets are placed; accordingly, a dreadnought mounted with guns aligned parallel with a target will not have the forward batteries hit and the rear ones NOT hit the target (optimum range notwithstanding); all are treated as if they were fired from the center of the ship, just graphically offset to appear to emerge from designated turrets. Missiles would be no different in this regard: while the inevitable whiners would petition because the missile appeared to have come from somewhere that was too far away, the simple fact is that EVE is already rife with issues of lag and positioning errors. Correct me if I'm wrong, but nothing is determined visually on EVE servers - or else giant fleet battles with the amazing sideways-flying caps wouldn't be treated as a matter of course (well, there are complaints about lag, but that's a different issue altogether). This point was summarized well by a fellow supporter here.

Counterpoint 4: But what about players' computers? Can they handle the graphical enhancement?

Perhaps the biggest roadblock my idea has, yes. Now, I could simply say "lol but what about stations exploding and missile impact effects?" and leave people with less-powerful systems in the dust. But many people who say this forget about a graphics option in your menu - "Turn off turret effects"! Would it be so difficult for CCP to do the same for my proposal - a "Turn off missile barraging" or similar toggle? If they go so far as to implement it, then surely there'd be a way to turn it off for people with systems that aren't up to snuff - just like every other visual effect does!

Spades Slick
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.03 20:23:00 - [3]

Counterpoint 5: (introduced in F&I thread and brought here for archival): But what about targets JUST at maximum range?

This hearkens back to counterpoint 2; the server can already handle unique missile tracks for each manifested entity. This argument hinges on the lost tenth of a second while the missile launches and orients, during which a few hundred meters are lost. If your missiles are already pushing maximum range, then there really should be no problem with adding this overall change -- If you missed it, your missiles do a little jink at the end of their burn when they hit their target, indicating that the server has deemed the target to be 'in-range' by the time the missile reaches it, and no matter how the target is moving, the missile WILL HIT the target at that point no matter what (although, of course, the efficacy of the impact depends on the missile type, target speed, etc...). Extending the range of this 'final stage' by a few hundred meters easily offsets any questions of whether the missile lost flight time while launching -- and quite frankly, if a target is RIGHT at the end of engagement range, most missileers will not at all be surprised by a miss, given the fact that the target is moving, possibly away, and if it was TOWARDS you, then they will definitely hit anyway. If you start going "OMG I LAUNCHED EXACTLY AT 65.5 KM BUT IT DIDN'T HIT WTF THIS SUCKS", then you shouldn't be using missiles... such inaccuracies and inconsistencies are only to be expected. Indeed, it could be taken as a step towards making EVE more realistic (well, if you know what I mean; EVE obviously isn't realistic) -- do you launch your missiles RIGHT when you hit max range, and hope they hit? Or do you wait 5km or so (like, say, I already do anyway) to make sure a hit will be guaranteed? My proposal changes NOTHING but visual effects, when all's said and done.

Posted - 2010.07.03 20:28:00 - [4]

Edited by: Goose99 on 03/07/2010 20:28:06
Sounds good, especially visual cue for missile mounted hardpoints. Can't tell a neut phon from torp ganker atm, but can tell for neut/blaster domi.

Posted - 2010.07.04 00:00:00 - [5]

Edited by: Fournone on 04/07/2010 00:00:50
Already an active thread on this, however you presented it much better, I like how you used point/couterpoint to show whats good and bad about it. Alot of threads these days are 'GIMM3 TH1S, N0 G00D R3AZ0N I JUST W4NT 1T!!!1!' and when people say its a bad idea the OP gets POed and counterattacks Neutral
Will require some ships to have slight modding, others like the drake and rifter already have have built in missile luanch points. Dunno how CCP would change ships like the hurricane which doesn't have a single point where a missile could possibily come from.
Also, you have the pheonix which is a few km long. If one luancher is at the front, one in the middle, and on at the afk, you would need to be closer for the one in the aft to hit the target. But then agian who said that the visual missile has to be the actual missile, they could just make the missile eye candy and have the actual missile basically invisible. Sadly I don't think that CCP will ever do this, they are too busy adding useless and half finished additions to eve like PI.

EDIT: forgot to support Very Happy

Veteran Defense Initiative
Posted - 2010.07.04 19:49:00 - [6]

Supported. This issue is especially annoying with ships like the drake, where the ships origin is actually in empty space and you can see the missiles appear out of nowhere. I think anyone who says it would cause too much lag is just desperately searching for a way to knock this idea and 'keep EVE conservative". Can't see why it would cause much lag considering turret ships have up to 16 separately moving models with multiple rotating parts that can shoot in multiple directions. Just make missiles have turrets with big chunky barrels on them. Problem solved. (for ships like the drake and crow, just place the missile origins at the pre-existing launchers, maybe?

Orb Vex

Posted - 2010.07.04 20:13:00 - [7]

Harkwyth Mist
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2010.07.05 19:55:00 - [8]

Explosion graphics need an overhaul too

current -> a 2 dimensional explosion from inside the target (blast radius is centred on the 3 dimensional midpint of the target object, but the blast radius is only displayed by a 2d blast-ring).

future -> a 3d explosion sphere centred on the outer surface of the target object. (im guessing ccp cant do realistic explosions for non-promovideo purposes)

I'd always assumed those wedge-shaped objects on the hull of the drake were the launchtubes ....

Cyprus Black
Posted - 2010.07.05 21:27:00 - [9]

I'd like to see all the missiles in flight. Grouped and all striking at the same time wouldn't change, but the animations would show all the missiles in flight.

Posted - 2010.07.06 08:14:00 - [10]


Bevil Smyth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.06 12:12:00 - [11]

graphical tweaks always get a thumbs from me!


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