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blankseplocked Getting rid of learning skills..
 
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lythos miralbar
The Fifth Ace
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:43:00 - [1]
 

Now I may have missed something here (which happens fairly often), but I cannot understand why people want to get rid of the learning skills so badly?

I'm seeing coments like "Yeay I'll get back the 5m SP I put into them to use on something else".

That doesnt make sense.. If you get back the SP you invested in them, lets say 5m SP, then surely to make it fair CCP will first have to deduct the SP you saved by having them while you were training other skills?

And if by having them you have saved more than 5m SP wouldn't you then get back a negative number of SP?

Possibly taken from your highest trained skill that you would have to retrain.

Sounds to me like some people have not thought this through Question

Dorian 'Gray
Gallente
Ramdon Industries corporation
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:44:00 - [2]
 

Again ...... Really ?

Arimus Darkhart
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:45:00 - [3]
 

Main reason for wanting shot of them is the do nothing for a month bar train learning skills problem.

I imagine its part of the reason for the low trial to full account conversion rate and initial retention rates.

Boltorano
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:46:00 - [4]
 

Most of us don't just want them removed, we want everyone to be given a base attribute increase to compensate for their removal, so everyone gets the benefits.

And why?

Because they're stupid.

Matt Icy
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:47:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Arimus Darkhart
Main reason for wanting shot of them is the do nothing for a month bar train learning skills problem.

You're doing it wrong.

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:48:00 - [6]
 

OK, I'll bite and feed the Troll...

What people hope/pray/expect to happen is more akin to something like instead of 5 being the base stat that everyone gets (then adds learning and implants) it would be bumped up to something closer to 15, and Learning Skills go away. Or in other words, all characters are assumed to have the effects of full learning.

Then the 1m-5m most people have in learning gets refunded.

An across the board character buff.

Personally I don't care either way. I'm fine as is.

helples
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:48:00 - [7]
 

I LIKE MUDKIP!!!!!!!!!!! NO BUT RLYUR AWESEOM FOR MAKING THIS POST

but wait ur theory wont work if they raise every ones attributes to the same amount you would have with the learning skills then there would but no loss only gain zomg its a paradox!!!!!!!! :O

tythos
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:49:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: tythos on 29/06/2010 14:50:51
Ok, see now that makes sense. Fair enough I can understand getting rid of them to make the game more newbie friendly.

Just had the impression people thought that CCP would give them several million SP in exchange for thier skills which doesn't add up.

BTW this is not troll post, I honestly was surprised that some people thought they were going to get millions of SP back and couldn't see how that could be done.

EDIT -> Posted with an alt, this is the OP.

Lord Molly
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:50:00 - [9]
 

yeah actually its going to work out better apperently, when the elarnnig skills are removed you will be able to put those skillpoints back onto what ever you so desire but that throws up the question that now everybody will be traing and a much gimped rate, so ccp's answer is to effectively raise everybodys base attributes, equivilent of have all learnnig skills to 5 (or so i have heard) so we will basically be getting free learnnig skills all to lvl 5 with out having to train them and also getting a load of free sp, it also allows the noobs who join to train things faster and not have to spend a month or so ramming in the learningskills so everybody wins

Orion GUardian
Caldari
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:51:00 - [10]
 

KNowing compŘanies they most likely think of "learning skills" as a mistake because they increase learning speed and thus people need less time paying to get something done.

Anyway: If you remove them Attributes should get an overall increase so learning speed for players wont drop down to 1/3rd of what it is now. -> to not **** off players with longer training times

Reallocating SPs spend on those skills is a given, too. -> To not **** off everyone who skilled them.

If you do not remove them people will have to train them to get reasonable training times

Nisanthro
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:51:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Boltorano
Most of us don't just want them removed, we want everyone to be given a base attribute increase to compensate for their removal, so everyone gets the benefits.

And why?

Because they're stupid.


No.

vicror
Critical Density
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:51:00 - [12]
 

Since when does Eve players(kids and geeks) put any thought into something?

Maxing learning for another alt. atm...almost finished after 3 months of training.

Eva Darkstar
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:52:00 - [13]
 

This has already been talked about on the 'Skill Discussion' forum, there's a 14 page thread entitled ' Remove learning skills?'. Read that if you're really interested.

tythos
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:56:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: tythos on 29/06/2010 14:58:48
Edited by: tythos on 29/06/2010 14:56:46
Quote:
yeah actually its going to work out better apperently, when the elarnnig skills are removed you will be able to put those skillpoints back onto what ever you so desire but that throws up the question that now everybody will be traing and a much gimped rate


But thats what I dont get.. If they remove the skills and credit back the SP, dont they have to remove the benefit people have had from having the skills?

SP invested in learning skills - SP saved from having them = SP returned

Otherwise it would heavily favor those that have had several years of the benefit of having them? Even if you have a cross the board attribute increase to compensate, older players still win.. the longer you have had them the more you win.

And yes I am one of those people that would benefit, it just does not seem right?

Quote:
This has already been talked about on the 'Skill Discussion' forum, there's a 14 page thread entitled ' Remove learning skills?'. Read that if you're really interested.


I shall go and have a read, thank you.

EDIT :- Posted with alt by mistake, again, this is the OP

Inquisitor Berthez
Alien Pancake Bonanza
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:58:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Inquisitor Berthez on 29/06/2010 14:59:08
The only good reason to remove learning skills is to keep new players more interested. There is nothing more boring than training a month of skills without getting any noticable effect (no new ships, guns etc). And since the average active player usually has all learning skills to at least 4 there is no real reason not to give all players +8 base attributes (learning+soct), and maybe add a rank 20 skill that does +0,20/+0,40 points per level on all attributes to keep the all learning 5 players happy too, so you can get rid of all learning skills that are there now.

Kidney Seller
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:59:00 - [16]
 

Refreshing topic OP, well done.

lythos miralbar
The Fifth Ace
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.29 15:05:00 - [17]
 

Quote:
Refreshing topic OP, well done.


I am so sorry that this topic does not meet your high standards, next time I have a question that no one has asked before I will keep it to myself.




Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.06.29 15:08:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: tythos
BTW this is not troll post, I honestly was surprised that some people thought they were going to get millions of SP back and couldn't see how that could be done.
As always, I refer to this Q&A from the 2009 fanfest, where they discuss the problems with learning skills and the various problems they've encountered with trying to figure out how to get rid of them.

The reason people are talking about getting SP back is because one of those problems was that there was no way of removing the skills without seriously ****ing people off who had trained them. Now, at least, there is a mechanic that provides one solution to that problem: use the new SP reimbursement system to give people back the points they've poured into learning skills.

Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
Posted - 2010.06.29 15:11:00 - [19]
 

No. Any additional skillpoints that any player may have already thanks to the training skills are in exchange for the time that they have been handicapped with less effective skills. If those skills are going to go (thing that I find as an overall good thing for the game even if I personally won't benefit that much at this stage), compensation is unavoidable to not cripple young players that have already trained them.

Zverofaust
Gallente
Ascetic Virtues
Posted - 2010.06.29 15:11:00 - [20]
 

It is pretty bad for new players to be told that they should spend the first month or so of their game training obligatory training skills, when really most players just want to get into actually doing things. Total ****blocker imho.

Kidney Seller
Posted - 2010.06.29 15:12:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: lythos miralbar
Quote:
Refreshing topic OP, well done.


I am so sorry that this topic does not meet your high standards, next time I have a question that no one has asked before I will keep it to myself.







It's okay, I forgive you.

tythos
Posted - 2010.06.29 15:15:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
As always, I refer to this Q&A from the 2009 fanfest, where they discuss the problems with learning skills and the various problems they've encountered with trying to figure out how to get rid of them.

The reason people are talking about getting SP back is because one of those problems was that there was no way of removing the skills without seriously ****ing people off who had trained them. Now, at least, there is a mechanic that provides one solution to that problem: use the new SP reimbursement system to give people back the points they've poured into learning skills.


Thank you for taking the time to reply. I can understand the reasond behind the change, its just the issue of the 'benefit' people have had from them by having the skills for years, and how without the skills new players will never get the same 'benefit'.

I'll head over to the skills forum (yes this thread should have been there anyway, sorry). Thank you to those that replied Very Happy

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.29 15:24:00 - [23]
 

There's a proposal before the CSM in the Assembly Hall forum to remove learning skills: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1324024

There's a another thread in the Learning Skills forum: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1290489

I even got some traction on a 'give all n00bs 4/3 learning skills' proposal in Features and Ideas: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1306870

Plus a lot of skill speculation in the patch thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1344118

And probably a half dozen learning skills going away threads in general.

Pick yer poison.


 

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