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Katrina Bekers
Gallente
Fighters Squadron
Posted - 2010.07.11 13:19:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
1. The Nation and the Directorate are working together to some unknown end.
2. The Nation has attacked the Directorate and taken the system (or at least, the station) by force.

Despite the undoubted prowess of the Jovian Navy, the boastful communiques left in this forum by Sansha representatives combined with the reports of a battle in 3-CE1R lead me to believe that the latter is the more likely of the two.


Also, if Joves are helping them/working with them, why the need to acquire a jovian ship in the Ansem event, rather than asking for a specimen from their partners?

RavenTesio
Caldari
Liandri Corporation
Posted - 2010.07.12 13:11:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 10/07/2010 23:00:22
As I see it, the presence of Sansha forces in Jovian space can only mean one of two things:

1. The Nation and the Directorate are working together to some unknown end.
2. The Nation has attacked the Directorate and taken the system (or at least, the station) by force.

Despite the undoubted prowess of the Jovian Navy, the boastful communiques left in this forum by Sansha representatives combined with the reports of a battle in 3-CE1R lead me to believe that the latter is the more likely of the two.

Unlike some of my other capsuleer bretheren I make no claims to Godhood, or indeed precognitive prowess, but the way things are progressing I can envisage these events marking a new chapter in the history of New Eden. If my previous assumption is correct then the Jovians have shown themselves to be deficient in mataining their soverignty, and (albeit probably later rather than sooner) they may decide that their only recourse is to open their borders and elicit help from the capsuleers they themselves helped to create.

All this is of course speculation, and I do not mean to imply that the loss of one system marks a seismic shift in centuries-old Jovian foreign policy. Having said that, if things continue as they have been and more Jovian systems fall to Kuvakei's forces, then things could get very interesting indeed...

EDIT:- Spelling


You may have a point there Jovan. I mean in any of the scenarios other capsuleers have put forward, what I think the only thing we know for a fact here is Nation is in Jovian space.

Something that has particularly peaked my interest about the recent affairs, is how Nation has at their disposal the ability to create wormholes. While no doubt his followers would lead us to believe they have control over them, it is possible that they don't. In fact the relatively sparse number of attacks by Nation within the Core systems as well as the recent probe being sent from the outer regions that they still have an issue with locking a target location.

We see the same problem with Jump Drives, sure you could use them without Cynosural Field; but you could end up anywhere. Still... it is definately interesting.

Havok Pierce
Gallente
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.07.13 06:17:00 - [213]
 

I wonder about the effectiveness of moving multiple capital-type ships through wormholes. My corporation specializes in deep-reconnaissance through unknown space and I've never seen (or heard of) a wormhole stable enough to transfer more than three or four dreadnaught-class capitals without collapsing.

Now, if the Sansha managed to figure out how to direct the formations of wormholes or artificially stabilize the beasts... whole 'nother game there. While I have some contacts in Stain, it's been years since I last worked those spaceways.

Arthainas
Amarr
Black Hand Templars
The Veyr Collective
Posted - 2010.07.13 22:58:00 - [214]
 

Why don't you lowly commoners do alittle more then guess as to the outcome of this? Take charge and raid Stain herself. Surely answers lay there in Nations home. Albeit, commoners are not known for thinking, but surely one of you must have thought of this?

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2010.07.13 23:25:00 - [215]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 13/07/2010 23:27:19
Originally by: Arthainas
Why don't you lowly commoners do alittle more then guess as to the outcome of this? Take charge and raid Stain herself. Surely answers lay there in Nations home. Albeit, commoners are not known for thinking, but surely one of you must have thought of this?


Back at the dawn of all of this, yes.

Intermittently since then, yes.

Stain is as it long has been: a slowly swelling mass of Nation conventional craft and facilities.

It's the lizard's twitching, blue tail, pilot: so obvious, so vivid, that it must be the most important part. Only, it appears to be entirely ancillary to Kuvakei's present doings. His fleet, wherever it originally came from, seems to be operating apart from and independent of the Nation's more easily-accessible holdings.

We can probably do the Nation some damage in Stain, but the potential is likely neither more nor less there than it ever has been. There is always the possibility of stumbling upon something crucial, but it seems at least equally likely to me that said "something" would be found somewhere usually not considered to be associated with the Nation at all.

Sort of silly to hide something important where you know people will go looking for it, yes?

Price cheka
Posted - 2010.07.14 06:30:00 - [216]
 

when you say 'launched a probe and retrieved images from the other side of the WH' how is this done in game?
Or is it really just someone from CCP roleplaying someone and providing crumbs to drool over?
Because I dont ever recall the option to drop a probe through a WH.

Confused

Severice
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2010.07.14 16:29:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Snake Doctor
It's not Jovian. I'd be more worried about the Sleepers.

Sleepers remain to be positively identified as a threat. They are hardly more than mindless drones, any intelligence can easily be attributed to complex interaction, like termites or ants.

Quote:

Our own intel indicates some startling revelations
1. W-Space Talocan and Sleeper antimatter caches have recently gone missing, moved, or destroyed.



I can't imagine such things having value to anyone.

Quote:

2. A number Talocan and Sleeper technology caches and archeological sites in unknown W-space systems have recently disappeared.



Me, my corporation, and my entire alliance would have nothing to do with that.

Quote:

3. A number of Oruze Constructs have become at least partially active, indicating that at least one of these installations is now transmitting information to the others.



Ok, this one is our bad. I told Tempa not to go pushing buttons.

Quote:

4. A number of "Mirrors" seem to be displaying some strange readings, indicating at least one "mirror" in (what seems to be) a network of them has become fully functional.



The mirror facilities are of quite some use to those that know their inner workings. We've made quite some advancements in communication technology by getting them operational. Along with advances in Afterburner and Micro-warp-drive technology derived from Blackhole class systems, weapon and ecm advancements from magnetars, shield advancements derived from pulsar systems. These testing environments are beautiful works of art.

Quote:

5. The Nation is most likely in possestion of at least one Oruze Construct, its facilities, and its technology and is using said technology to open wormholes in targetted systems.



Who isn't? They're just there for the taking.

Quote:

6. Sansha architechture shares notable characteristics with Sleeper technology and Talocan installations. Even if only a visual similarity exists, it poses a few questions.



If my memory serves, Sansha ship design was done by a now deceased madman?

That fleet looks impressive, I've never seen a fleet all lined up so pretty before. Lets hope they fight as well as they dance.

Arthainas
Amarr
Black Hand Templars
The Veyr Collective
Posted - 2010.07.15 05:13:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 13/07/2010 23:27:19
Originally by: Arthainas
Why don't you lowly commoners do alittle more then guess as to the outcome of this? Take charge and raid Stain herself. Surely answers lay there in Nations home. Albeit, commoners are not known for thinking, but surely one of you must have thought of this?


Back at the dawn of all of this, yes.

Intermittently since then, yes.

Stain is as it long has been: a slowly swelling mass of Nation conventional craft and facilities.

It's the lizard's twitching, blue tail, pilot: so obvious, so vivid, that it must be the most important part. Only, it appears to be entirely ancillary to Kuvakei's present doings. His fleet, wherever it originally came from, seems to be operating apart from and independent of the Nation's more easily-accessible holdings.

We can probably do the Nation some damage in Stain, but the potential is likely neither more nor less there than it ever has been. There is always the possibility of stumbling upon something crucial, but it seems at least equally likely to me that said "something" would be found somewhere usually not considered to be associated with the Nation at all.

Sort of silly to hide something important where you know people will go looking for it, yes?


First you'll properly address a member of Nobilty properly.
Second the best places to hide anything my dear is in plain sight. Who would think to look under their own noses? Kuvakei is more then likely, laughing at us trying to figure out some far out space for his sercets, when we have not even cheacked under our noses yet. Through my dear, be through.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2010.07.15 06:11:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Arthainas
First you'll properly address a member of Nobilty properly.


Shall I?

Quote:
Second the best places to hide anything my dear is in plain sight. Who would think to look under their own noses? Kuvakei is more then likely, laughing at us trying to figure out some far out space for his sercets, when we have not even cheacked under our noses yet. Through my dear, be through.


Thorough.... I see.

Your insight is indeed great. Our technique is lacking it is true; clearly our inability to find the key facility of which you speak is due to our own weakness and negligence.

And yet, I fear our incompetence will not vanish just for the desiring. But surely, your diligence can sniff out this hidden, key link?

Please show us how it should be done.

Amann Karris
Amarr
Karris Family
Posted - 2010.07.15 10:56:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Arthainas
First you'll properly address a member of Nobilty properly.

This is not a Great Hall of the Empire. You'll find that certain customs will be more a detriment to your presentations here than a boon.
Quote:
Second the best places to hide anything my dear is in plain sight. Who would think to look under their own noses? Kuvakei is more then likely, laughing at us trying to figure out some far out space for his sercets, when we have not even cheacked under our noses yet. Through my dear, be through.

I believe... this... is about as "in plain sight" as you can get without giving everything away. If it were as simple as mounting a strike against Stain, it would have been done by now. Not by capsuleers, but by the Empires.

No, there is nothing to find of Nation in Stain that will help the current situation. Things are also seldom hidden in plain sight, for the simple fact that it would be plain to see. Stain is a dead end, the broken remains of a once great society. "Nation" is reborn.

Master Kuvakei has been named; has a single capsuleer commanding these Nation assaults claimed to be from "Sansha's Nation"?

Plain sight... my boy, everything is in plain sight if you know where to look. There is no sense in hiding it.

Quote:
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
- The Scriptures, Amarr Askura 10:3

Perhaps we should put our differences aside. Caldari, Gallente, Amarr and Minmatar, and as capsuleers face this threat where we can meet it; in space, on our terms. Let the Empires face the remnants of Kuvakei's shattered dream, let us, the heirs of a greater glory be the armor for those who can not protect themselves.

As capsuleers, our strength is not in never falling, but in raising ourselves up to even greater heights when we do.

Noremac Cormyr
Posted - 2010.07.15 14:49:00 - [221]
 

Unfortunately with the purported worm-hole abilities of the Nation, the nation may not have to face the empire navies directly. A strategic strike to cause chaos or severe damage or lose of life is more likely. The days of smashing fleets against each other may very well be over. A disabling strike against CONCORD (like the one purpritrated by the elder and thunker fleets during the same time as the attack on Caldari prime) or at major military production hubs could cause more damage than any frontal assault. If concord were to go down all most all capsuleers would be at each otherís throats. The cost of the losses would sky rocket to the billions in an hour. This would effectively eliminate most capsuleers as a threat and may very well tie up the navies as well while they attempt to quell the violence. If the Nation has any sort of strategic knowledge they would split that fleet into task forces and strike at important targets.

Sylorin
Caldari
MMZ Laboratories LLC
Posted - 2010.07.15 15:13:00 - [222]
 

Here's a thought about location and "plain sight."

Everyone is looking at that image and concentrating on the ships.

Take a close look at the sun. About what spectral class do you think? G or K? About how many AU from that star is this fleet? It looks like 1-5, very close in. Letís look at the traces gasses around this system.

Now let's look at the stars in the background. Can we see any known constellations? If we can correctly identify some of those stars, then we can (with some basic triangulation) determine if this image is indeed from Stain and not from, say, somewhere in Yulai.

Not that I doubt Captain Nellís probe. But some extra verification on the location couldnít hurt.





Arthainas
Amarr
Black Hand Templars
The Veyr Collective
Posted - 2010.07.15 16:54:00 - [223]
 

The reason my dear boy that the Empire's or even Concord herself have not luanched an assusalt, is simply thus. None of them see Nation as a threat, not to mention each is unwilling to work with each other to gather detailed information on the subject.

Amann Karris
Amarr
Karris Family
Posted - 2010.07.16 10:17:00 - [224]
 

Edited by: Amann Karris on 16/07/2010 10:22:45
Originally by: Sylorin
Not that I doubt Captain Nellís probe. But some extra verification on the location couldnít hurt.

Perhaps CONCORD could put your concerns to rest.

Originally by: Arthainas
The reason my dear boy that the Empire's or even Concord herself have not luanched an assusalt, is simply thus. None of them see Nation as a threat, not to mention each is unwilling to work with each other to gather detailed information on the subject.

I would again point to CONCORD's stance on the matter, cautioning against hubris. There is a reason no Empire has entered Jove space in a long, long time; at least without permission. If the Jove are silent, I doubt anyone would risk entering their space without prior consent.

Perhaps that is a clue, hmm?

Oh, I almost forgot. Exactly what is it that you are after?

Arthainas
Amarr
Black Hand Templars
The Veyr Collective
Posted - 2010.07.17 02:51:00 - [225]
 

What I seek is something ment only to be uttered to Kuvakei.

Tanairi
Posted - 2010.07.19 20:14:00 - [226]
 

Hello, all this is very interesting, but is that fleet really for killing, or is that a fictional story? sorry for the noob questions buy i find this rathher unbeleivable.

Sibylla Aldanar
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.07.19 22:02:00 - [227]
 

Edited by: Sibylla Aldanar on 20/07/2010 19:47:44
Edited by: Sibylla Aldanar on 20/07/2010 19:47:12
I believe this was already mentioned already, however I would like to restate this and emphasize this very important point. While the Prosper Vault station in 3-CE1R is likely not an important station in of itself (from a Jovian perspective), the point of primary concern here is the location of the station, 3-CE1R. As most of you may know (or not know), 3-CE1R is the capital of the Jove Empire. How the Sansha managed to capture a station in the capital system of the Jove Empire is not clear, although there were reports mentioned some time ago that a battle took place in that system a few days before capsuleer Mouse Nell discovered the Sansha fleet in front of Prosper Vault. I fear that the Nation might be receiving help from some unknown faction, be it a group of traitorous Jovians or a hidden Order that is more powerful than the Jove.

Uzbard
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.07.20 00:47:00 - [228]
 

Could it be that these two groups are working together or at least that the Sansha has something that the Jove desperately need? Could the Jove's very survival as a race depend on what support the Sansha can provide?

West McDonald
Gallente
Hagukure
Posted - 2010.07.20 13:35:00 - [229]
 

....Every time I read into this game I find that it is SO much deeper than I thought. It's posts like this that make me (a lowly 3-5 month old subscriber) feel EXTREMELY insignificant. There appears to be forces at work here that I know NOTHING about....and here I was thinking that we just got war dec'd by a corp with no more than 7 people in it was a big deal....good lord. 0.0

Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2010.07.21 09:31:00 - [230]
 

Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 21/07/2010 09:34:57
The comments about the Jovians not being all that I think are misleading, as previously experienced in Z-H2MA, of course if the Sansha's have managed to somehow insinuate themselves into the Jove military and slave key commanders.. it might already be too late.

We need a diplomatic mission out there right NOW to find out what the hell is going on and see if the Jove actually need our help

a newbie
d o o m
Posted - 2010.07.24 16:39:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: a newbie on 24/07/2010 16:43:31
I have arrived late into this discussion, but it appears that each detachment is made up of the following:

Each Division (Per Titan)
1x Titan
2x Wyvern
4x Moros
9x Chimera
180x Nightmare
360x Phantasm
900x Succubus

Under the assumption that 3 Titans were all that were present, that would present figures in the range below:
3x Titan
6x Wyvern
12x Moros
27x Chimera
540x Nightmare
1080x Phantasm
2700x Succubus

Now this leaves the structure in the background. Its size is indicative of a titan or mobile command platform. That's one bothersome fleet there.

Sibylla Aldanar
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.07.24 20:55:00 - [232]
 

That's a Jovian station,apparently captured by Kuvakei. It is called the Prosper Vault, (formerly) owned by the Jovian finanial corporation, Prosper.

Ghaylenty
Posted - 2010.07.27 01:29:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Axemaster
Originally by: Veron Daerth
Firstly, to address the issue of a titan impacting a planetary surface. Collision between objects in a spatial environment DO NOT calculate the same, since explosions,concussion, and energy propagate differently in space than an atmosphere. I dont have the equations directly handy, but a 10,000 meter diameter iron asteroid traveling at 60m/s (max speed for a stock Avatar) with an overall desity of 8.0grams/cm3 (basic iron asteroid) impacting a temperate world with a standard oxy-nitro atmosphere at an impact angle of 90degrees will release 1,790 megatons of explosive force and will create a crater just shy of 16.5 km across and just over 1 km deep at its epicenter. An Avatar, for comparison, is 13km in length along its long axis, and masses in at 2,278,125 metric tons. You can safely assume its density is much greater than a standard asteroid.


60m/s is very very slow, so I find it extremely hard to believe that you would get any crater at all. More like a big rock pile. I mean, 60m/s is what you get if you drop it from a few stories up. Your analysis is ludicrous.


60m/s is QUITE fast for something that large. A planetary collision event with something larger than a mid-sized iron asteroid WILL result in a catastrophic explosion that would be the release of many thousands of megatons of force, resulting in the extinction of most species on a planet.

Wrecker Red
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.07.28 20:49:00 - [234]
 

Pitiful fools, bow before the might that Kuvakei has assembled in the name of Lord Sansha's dream. When our fleet is launched, no Empire shall be left unscathed as the Nation expands it's reaches to the four corners of of New Eden!

Midori Amiiko
Gallente
NerdHerd
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.07.29 00:14:00 - [235]
 

I question the ability of the Sansha to control wormholes. Where did this information come from? A Sansha meat puppet perhaps? Where's the proof?
Anyone who's lived in W-space knows that a wormhole's natural characteristics can be exploited without resorting to high technology, allowing for limited direction of it's exit.

As for some dreaded Sleeper attack, I welcome it.




Vallek Arkonnis
Posted - 2010.07.29 00:33:00 - [236]
 

The Jovians crave knowledge, seemingly of anything. As we know they have removed the instinct of aggression out of their DNA, and as a result from that and other modifications are now threatened with extinction.

What they are so interested in is how aggression works, hence the infiltration in every empire; to monitor every conflict, to take notes.

Why bother?

Because they still have at least one basic instinct intact; self preservation. Aggression seems to be inherent in every human being, once they removed basic instincts that's when the problems with their DNA's stability began. Perhaps the conclusion they came to is that aggression is a necessary evil in the human condition. The whole point of their study is to reintegrate aggression into their DNA to stabilise their condition. This is merely the latest experiment to that end.

It's obvious the Jovians have the power to wipe out that Nation fleet. Even if the Nation took that station from them (rather than it having been given to them), how do we know the Jovians just didn't let it go? Has there been any other documented instance of any group successfully attacking them and winning? How do we know that the Jovians didn't provide (perhaps through a proxy) the Nation with the technology to turn those 200,000 captives into mindless pilots for that fleet? And a fleet like that doesn't just show up on a weekend. A fleet like that takes time to amass, if it was really a threat to the Jovians would they just let it happen under their noses? My gut says if they're not aligned with the Nation then they're allowing this to happen. The Nation is the pawn in this and we're being forced to be the mouse in the maze.

The Jovians want to sit and watch, study what it takes for enemies to become allies even temporarily, and then aggress a greater threat. Or to see who will turn their aggression for more opportunistic reasons.

They want us to fight, but not to die. They will not let us face an insurmountable foe, we hold the key to their continued existence.

Marikitus
Posted - 2010.07.30 12:41:00 - [237]
 

Edited by: Marikitus on 30/07/2010 12:42:37
Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel
1+ Sansha battlestations.
3+ Titans.
43+ Carriers.
12+ Dreadnoughts.
8+ Supercarriers.
Hundreds of battleships.
Thousands of support cruisers and frigates.


My friend thats imposible.....they cant be there because the "severe spatial distortions" Lag

iyammarrok
Posted - 2010.07.30 13:35:00 - [238]
 

Edited by: iyammarrok on 30/07/2010 13:38:43
am i the only one who has been paying attention for the past 5 years?

the jovians have seen something comming. what that thing is i do not know... but i have ideas.

in the past 5 to 10 years they have been slowly granting the empires, and specifically the capsuleer community access to more and more powerful technology... mostly the technologies of war.

then, during this 'covert' building of the empires into front line fodder, we decide to start figting amongst each other. which from a purely logical standpoint, is a terrible waste of resources.

now we find, a large threat that could cause all 4 of the empires to have to group together and ALLY WITH ONE ANOTHER to combat.

also... i have heard unsubstantiated reports of jovian wrecks being thrown out of the eve gate.... energy pulses and other wrecks at and around point genesis....

i worry too much i know... but too much points towards one simple truth.

the terrans are returning to take back what is theirs. and we are in the way


the sleepers seemingly began to wake up soon after jamyl saruum used teran tech to annhialate a minmatar/thukker fleet. so perhaps they also are either preparing the way for the terrans )as i gather the sleepers are building stations that could easily house humans) or they are preparing a safe haven to hide from the approaching storm.

i hope, and ferverently pray that i am wrong.

may the winds of fate shelter us all.


**edit** @ Vallek Arkonnis ... well... there is obviously a history of people assaulting the jovian race and winning... at least twice in the jovian histories.... hence the reason they are on the third jovian empire. whether those battles were internal, or as part of the ancient wars that we, in the empires, have only recently learned about is another matter entirely.

Sibylla Aldanar
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.07.30 22:41:00 - [239]
 

The First Empire collapsed due to unknown reasons, but we know that the Jovian Elders were involved in it. The Second Empire collapsed due to the Jovian Disease, after which they built the three Jovian Motherships that carried the unharmed Jovians to their new home in J7HZ-F and A821-A. We also know that both the First and Second empires were based in Curse, with Utopia as the heart of their empire.

Tera Mcbitchypants
Posted - 2010.07.31 00:19:00 - [240]
 

There gonna hot drop us.


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