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RavenPaine
Posted - 2010.07.01 18:43:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: RavenPaine on 01/07/2010 18:43:51
I have bad news for you Crying or Very sad

After 2 years, your going to see that you really need 2 MORE years to be perfect at something else.
Then after those 2 years, new skills will be added and you will need 2 MORE years to master those.
Finally , after 6 years, you will find that someone has better skills than you in some area, and you will find yourself crying in the forums , just like you did on day one.

Its harsh. Quit now while you still can Exclamation

CAPSLOCKBROKE
Viziam
Posted - 2010.07.01 19:30:00 - [62]
 

EVE is not for you. Many others enjoy the way the game is designed, and find it a great change from normal MMOs. There are literally hundreds of games suited more towards your style, go play them and save yourself the hassle that EVE seems to cause you.

Your opinion won't change the game and it won't change your experience with it, either play EVE the way it is or go play another game that you'll hopefully enjoy more.
















Or go back to WoW.

Agondray
Gallente
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
Posted - 2010.07.01 20:08:00 - [63]
 

ok so their complaining about having to wait for a while to do anything good, let me give you some news, when i started i didnt have increased skill time or at one point when you made your guy you got almost 800-900k sp able to train 1 skills and go to t2. All i got for starting was 50k sp back in 2005. and i played the whole time minus a few months here and there where all i did was skill train because my job in the military requires me to go away or i got board, i would come back and find a bunch of new stuff i can do. Which I also followed what corporations told me train, so it took me a long time to be good at anything. And here i am almost 5 years later, playing the game for free able to do what i want when i want with 307skills i can fly just about any ship i want, with any weapon, only ship im more than 1 skill away is a HIC and that takes 2 skills for me to fly. I PVR, PVP, PVE when i see fit, reseach and build, explore and all. This game as tons to do when your new, people dont mine to fleet with you in a mission and take you on a lvl 4 if you do something like play anti-frigate defense or salvage and loot. I know for sure
The Dragonyeah im behind on sp compared to people that concentrated and even remapped, i havent remapped because i never know what i will train next like going from industrial skills to use all the bpo's on my rorqual to social and ship skills to finish them to lvl 4.
and all of people out there that will question me, i am going for all of the skills to a useful lvl unlike that one guy that learned all 397skills with 200 of them lvl 2 or so!

Sama Weaver
Posted - 2010.07.01 20:26:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Sama Weaver on 01/07/2010 20:27:00
Originally by: Xenuria
I shouldent have to buy a character to experience the entirity of the game I purchased.

hey say never grind a skill again.

Well Maybe I am biased but waiting several months just to be able to take a tiny step forward in immersion and progression seems like grinding to me.

Wanna Mine gotta train skills
Wanna do stuff that 80% of the userbase is doing and not get carried, train the skills
Wanna explore solo and find valuable stuff? Gotta train ALOT of skills

it just seems like in order to do ANYTHING I need to train at least a few weeks worth of skills. I have plenty of money in game but theres nothing to spend it on because I still can't use anything. If I wanna try a new weapon type or gameplay mechanic I need to train a new skill.

The game was fun during the tutorial missions because the gameplay and content was in perfect sync with my training times and I moved up the chain of progression at a steady and enjoyable pace. Then after the tuts and the sisters arc your pritty much wished the best of luck. then suddenly there is no real direction, you can do anything, anything you desire.

After you train the skills. Then when you train your skills up enough to do something, you find out you cant even do X very effectively or efficiently enough to benefit from it until you train MORE skills.


Your underlying problem as I see it, is not that you can't do anything for lack of skills, it's a matter of you setting your goals too far and high out of reach, set smaller goals that fit in line with your more long term goals. For example, if you're goal is to be a Hulk miner, there are what 4-5 tiers of Exhumer/Mining Barges and all associated pre-requisite skills that go with it. Work your way towards a Retriever or Covetor, and then make a push for the next couple tiers of Exhumer/Barges. Learn to take smaller steps so that while you are waiting for the great parts of the game, you're not missing out on the good parts.

Kojaimea Sakamoto
Posted - 2010.07.01 22:41:00 - [65]
 

in a way learning skills in EVE is alot like in real life, you just pick them up over time. you're complaining that you will never catch up...

relate this to real life, did you complain when you were young that you would never catch up the skills that the older generation have?

Comodore John
Gallente
Trixi IFI
Posted - 2010.07.02 07:03:00 - [66]
 

If I had only found this thread yesterday when you were complaining on SiSi about not having max skills...

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.07.02 09:44:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Xenuria
Good News Everyone!

According to my Calculations, I only have to train skills for 2 solid years before I can start doing things in eve that are fun or make me more then 1 mil isk and hr.

What game should I play while I am waiting to play eve?


Im sorry, but to be a real use to a empire corp you will have to train for 5 years. So pay CCP up front for 10 years and return back at a later time. Meanwhile, you can play flipper or flipp-flopp. You can forget joining the mystic deep space dwellers though. They only recruit people with 10+ years.


Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
Posted - 2010.07.02 10:01:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 02/07/2010 10:02:31
Originally by: Kojaimea Sakamoto
relate this to real life, did you complain when you were young that you would never catch up the skills that the older generation have?

No because it isn't true.

Originally by: CAPSLOCKBROKE
EVE is not for you. Many others enjoy the way the game is designed, and find it a great change from normal MMOs. There are literally hundreds of games suited more towards your style, go play them and save yourself the hassle that EVE seems to cause you.


Wel it's not either 0% or 100%. EVE isn't a perfect game. It may be that the OP likes the game better once the learning skills and basic support skills are done with. It all takes a while though.

Regis Nex
Posted - 2010.07.02 11:18:00 - [69]
 

Better ask yourself now:

"What would Jesus do?"

StoleYo Cookies
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.02 19:23:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 25/06/2010 22:04:49

I forgot to mention above that a corpmate has over 105 million SP. I have 26 million.

The difference?

We fly the exact same ship, a Tengu, when we do w-space sites together. We use very similar fittings (I helped him fit his ship). I'm not lagging behind him in any way, in fact he very much appreciates my help; I prefer long-range heavy missiles and he prefers short-range heavy assault missiles, so we cover the entire range together.

I can't pilot a triage carrier, or all sub-capital ships of every race, but he's nowhere near as good a miner as I am (yes I like mining).

Skills only go to level 5, and the difference between 4 and 5 is small, especially compared to the training time. When you reach level 5, that's it. It doesn't matter if you've been around 1 month or 5 years. Those extra SP he has in capitals and other ships are useless too since he can only pilot one at a time.




This very well sums up what focusing your skills can do. He has about 1/4th the SP but he is just as useful in some areas and more useful in others.

That post right there should be /thread.

Agent Unknown
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.03 14:07:00 - [71]
 

^ that post quoted and...well, nothing stops you from low-sec piracy in a rifter in your first month. YARRRR!!

James Rehnold
Amarr
Expense Solutions
Posted - 2010.07.03 15:07:00 - [72]
 

Note from the Zoo management:

Please do not feed the trolls.
Thank you, the Management.

Stink Eye
Posted - 2010.07.04 17:05:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Xenuria
I shouldent have to buy a character to experience the entirity of the game I purchased.

hey say never grind a skill again.

Well Maybe I am biased but waiting several months just to be able to take a tiny step forward in immersion and progression seems like grinding to me.

Wanna Mine gotta train skills
Wanna do stuff that 80% of the userbase is doing and not get carried, train the skills
Wanna explore solo and find valuable stuff? Gotta train ALOT of skills

it just seems like in order to do ANYTHING I need to train at least a few weeks worth of skills. I have plenty of money in game but theres nothing to spend it on because I still can't use anything. If I wanna try a new weapon type or gameplay mechanic I need to train a new skill.

The game was fun during the tutorial missions because the gameplay and content was in perfect sync with my training times and I moved up the chain of progression at a steady and enjoyable pace. Then after the tuts and the sisters arc your pritty much wished the best of luck. then suddenly there is no real direction, you can do anything, anything you desire.

After you train the skills. Then when you train your skills up enough to do something, you find out you cant even do X very effectively or efficiently enough to benefit from it until you train MORE skills.

Entitlement Whine +2

knentil
Posted - 2010.07.04 18:09:00 - [74]
 

Really just find another game to play while waiting, but of course if you do this you won't be able to buy PLEX, and therefore eve will still cost you real money.. Dear lord noooo!

Harkwyth Mist
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.04 19:55:00 - [75]
 

I started with L1 missions, after 2 or 3 weeks i moved upto L2's, and then L3's and L4's as soon as I had the standings needed to talk to the agents for those levels.

Fastpathing involves training skills you have decided are 'in your plan' to L3, which for me was the minimum effective skill level. There will be a small handfull of skills that need training to L4 or L5 initially, usually ship/weapon skills.

Once I was doing L4's in a Battleship, I started raising all those L3 skills to L4 and L5 over time, which meant that over time I became more effective at what I wanted do in the game.

Tom Thumb
Gallente
Posted - 2010.07.05 02:26:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Tom Thumb on 05/07/2010 02:29:50
Edited by: Tom Thumb on 05/07/2010 02:27:53
I've been gone from Game a LONG time and just re-activated. I see not much has changed and people are still railing against the games "Inequities"

Bottom line is if you see someone flying around in a T2 ship and sporting some nice guns, if you see someone roaming low sec in a capitol ship and kicking behind and taking names, then you are looking at someone that went through the early stages of the game just like everyone else. Sorry for the run on sentence, but what do you think, do you think CCP just gave us the ships we are in? You think we had it any easier than you did?

Just because some people want instant gratification, just because they don't want to take the same time everyone else did to train their skills doesn't make the system wrong or broken. CCP is right not to change things because that cheapens the game.

I'll add my old voice to those who have already said, if you don't like it there is an easy solution. Eve is unique, and special don't try and bring it down into the ordinary.

Now for a constructive idea, join a corporation and get involved with the game in that way. It's your best bet for experiencing more game content sooner than you would solo.

The first time I was involved in a fleet battle the adrenalin was pumping so hard I could hardly keep my mouse still. It's an amazing rush and well worth the effort. If your not willing to put any effort into it you wont get much out, simple as that.

ShadowFire15
Posted - 2010.07.05 03:02:00 - [77]
 

well, thats moronic. you dont need to wait two years to have fun in the game. and seriously? two years before you can make 1 million an hour. i've been playing less than a year with 12 mil sp and i make more than that an hour. if someone told you you need to wait that long, they are lying.

Nikita Haley
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.07.05 07:33:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
And just for the record, if I was trolling I would make fun of your incorrect grammar.

Sorry, but this line's been bothering me for the last few pages.

That being said, I've been toying with probing for the past few days, and I'm having plenty of fun scanning down wormholes and getting myself killed. Strangely enough, the only skills that help me at all total up to about... What, a week of training? Sure is forever in here.

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2010.07.05 08:13:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Fenring

Well 2 years may be an overestimation but if for example you just want to be able to fly a Logistics ship ("I want to be a healer!") and want to be able to fly both armor and shield/energy replenishing ships (= 2 x 7 weeks cruiser V's) you need something close to a year already.


If you want to be a healer then you can easily start with an Osprey and Exequror and develop through RRBS before getting into the pinnacle of that "class".

Wang LeeMei
United Kings
Strategic Operations Brigade
Posted - 2010.07.05 10:16:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Fenring

[...] 2 x 7 weeks cruiser V's [...]




7 weeks for cruiser 5 !?? Shocked


and btw in every MMO u need to invest time ;)

if u wanna be a good healer in wow u need to level and grind epic equipment for weeks (not to mention the fact blizzard screwing ppl over when adding a new expansions)

in eve its skill u need to grind ... be happy its a passive thing and u dont have to sit in a raid for 10h straight to even end up getting nothing at all ;P


fly safe

CyrusRO
Posted - 2010.07.05 10:44:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: CyrusRO on 05/07/2010 10:44:49
ROFLMAO
i`ve started playing eve in may 2009 and i must admit that it tooked me ~7 months to fly a golem but it was worth it when i`ve noticed that i`m not under my elder corp mates in isk grinding .
yes it takes me ~30min/haven but if we run a 10/10 my golem is there because i do almost the same amount of damage as my corp mates and TBH i got better tank than them so stop complaining set a goal and work to achieve it.
btw if you do it right you can learn 20m sp`s/year so in 2 years you will have more than enough for what you want to do.

Jalabaster
Posted - 2010.07.05 11:36:00 - [82]
 

I've only been playing 3 weeks, but I think I "get it" way more than most noobs.

Here's the bottom line. Players have been paying to play this game for over 5 years... why should you be able to pay for two months of subscription and be able to compete on an equal playing field with them?

CCP has in fact put LOTS of game mechanics in to make sure that new players can be a valuable addition to a fleet of veteran players. You can fly a small frigate with lots of electronic countermeasures and help jam enemies while your veteran corpmates do the heavy lifting. In the meantime, they will help mentor you.

Any decent pvp corporation will probably supply you with small support ships as long as you continue to help them by flying said ships in the manner that they want you to fly them. Join a corporation, and show them that you're willing to pull weight, and they will likely be very generous.


Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2010.07.05 16:09:00 - [83]
 

It is players just like the O.P. that destroy most mmos sooner or later (Star Wars Galaxies, anyone?) with endless whining that "omg its gunna take sooo loong dood b4 i kan do anyfing k00l!!11!!!"

And i cannot believe the number of people who think "omg he is right!!" and post similar mindless babble. What is it that you think you need to wait for? Do you think that when people say "you can pvp effectively in a rifter in 2 or 3 days" it is a lie? Heres a bombshell; after a month of actually flying and training in that rifter, youll be a better pvper than 98% of the players in this game. Wanna know why? They keep "waiting for skills so they can be good"

I understand waiting a month to fly x ship is a pain, but that dosent mean you cant do all sorts of other fun stuff while you wait.

omgevenmoarfreemoniez
Posted - 2010.07.06 17:20:00 - [84]
 

So if you're not useless until you've played for a couple years, why do so many corps have very high SP limits? At least, the good PvP corps do. In my eyes, being in some noobie mission/mining/target-practice-for-real-players corp IS being useless.
People are, once again, saying one thing and believing the opposite.

Badmin
Posted - 2010.07.06 17:33:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Badmin on 06/07/2010 17:33:57
Originally by: omgevenmoarfreemoniez
So if you're not useless until you've played for a couple years, why do so many corps have very high SP limits? At least, the good PvP corps do. In my eyes, being in some noobie mission/mining/target-practice-for-real-players corp IS being useless.
People are, once again, saying one thing and believing the opposite.


Ill actually go ahead and answer this since its a surprisingly descent question.

The reason most corps have this rule is because players that have below a certain number (depending on the goal of the corp) are incapable of understanding the underlying CONCEPTS of pvp, industry, etc...

The basic premise of speed tanking / effective hitpoints etc... escapes pilots below a certain TIME LENGTH in the game. In my previous corp we actually modified the rule to fit along with the 100% training bonus to enable them to have the time we would expect people to play the game on their own before going into a corporation dedicated to a specific goal.

The fact of the matter is that without about 3 months in the game, you are a noob, you act, speak, and above all FIT like a noob. You get blown up and whine and cry and expect someone to come pat you on the back.

If you do NOT do this and are really new to the game I ADMIRE YOU! I remember my first few major losses when i started, it was devastating and i raged about it, i'm sure the corp didnt appreciate it at the time, but it was a small highsec corp anyway.

It is the vast majority that end up doing exactly this. 0.0 Corps, PvP corps that are serious just dont have time to put up with the tears.

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2010.07.06 20:11:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Ava Starfire on 06/07/2010 20:11:56
Most corps have some skillpoint limit. Mine does (not that it matters, my corp has me and my alts atm) more to weed out people who play for a month or two and then dissapear, than because I believe they need it to be effective. If people stick around a few months, odds are theyll be around for a while. The SP limit is pretty low, but its enough to be sure theyre off the trial and have some idea how this game works.

People with the right attitude and 500k SP are worth a lot more than a whining failfit-flying moron with 50m. Undock. Get owned. Redock, get new ship, repeat. Do this 50 or so times and keep asking "hey, can I get another frig? What did I do wrong?" and I promise youll do just fine, no matter how many SP you have.

Edit, because spelling IS hard

Orree
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.07.06 21:17:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Xenuria
Good News Everyone!

According to my Calculations, I only have to train skills for 2 solid years before I can start doing things in eve that are fun or make me more then 1 mil isk and hr.

What game should I play while I am waiting to play eve?


Honestly, I think this speaks much worse about you than it does the game.



Xenuria
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.07.07 14:16:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Orree
Originally by: Xenuria
Good News Everyone!

According to my Calculations, I only have to train skills for 2 solid years before I can start doing things in eve that are fun or make me more then 1 mil isk and hr.

What game should I play while I am waiting to play eve?


Honestly, I think this speaks much worse about you than it does the game.





naa I found my nich now..

Train skills and scan down sites. Then I go clear those sites.

IT sucks though that all the good sites are in 0.0 and can be scanned with onboard scanners. While the sites in high sec need like 6 probes to scan down and are not anywhere near as good as the ones in low sec.

Akita One
Gallente
Unity Continuum
Posted - 2010.07.07 21:02:00 - [89]
 

^^^ Yes Xenuria...this is what people aren't getting (though you did exaggerate quite a bit in your earlier posts), because they are too busy being snobby, or don't know what it is like to start this game in 2010 (in the current RPG environment, not just MMOs), as opposed to 2005.

If you don't want to PvP, the game can be very boring in the early going. I bet 95% of the people in here PvP.

Also, at least when you "grind" in other games, you are participating in action. In this game, you can play 72 hours in a row, but earn no skills.

Unfortunately, people talk about PLEX as if it's the best idea in gaming, so this game has become all about the money.

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.07.07 21:16:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Akita One
^^^ Yes Xenuria...this is what people aren't getting (though you did exaggerate quite a bit in your earlier posts), because they are too busy being snobby, or don't know what it is like to start this game in 2010 (in the current RPG environment, not just MMOs), as opposed to 2005...


You don't actually mean to insinuate that newbs have it so much harder now than 4-5 years ago do you? Really?! That is absolutely preposterous. It borders on delusional. You people have got to get a damn grip on reality.


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