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steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 09:03:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: steave435 on 22/06/2010 09:03:32
Edit: Posted in wrong thread

Somekind Damage
Posted - 2010.06.22 09:18:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Somekind Damage on 22/06/2010 09:18:10
/me hopes you make good speed for the sake of these poor people http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1339879

Meldgaard
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.06.22 09:50:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Somekind Damage
Edited by: Somekind Damage on 22/06/2010 09:18:10
/me hopes you make good speed for the sake of these poor people http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1339879


As one of them i am waiting with anticipation.

threeDspider
Caldari
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Merciless.
Posted - 2010.06.22 09:57:00 - [34]
 

Had to miss both days of the final weekend, eagerly awaiting some youtube luvin

Mrtan
Caldari
Volt Investments
Posted - 2010.06.22 14:45:00 - [35]
 

hurry up!!

Its not that hard cutting and pasting raw content through a vid maker.

TriadSte
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.22 16:51:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: CCP Charlie
During the qualifying weekends we have a fraction of the work load compared to the final weekend


Please explain? each match players are spawned into a empty location, a match takes place end of story the exact same applies to the final weekend does it not? Only more matchs on a much longer time frame as when compared to the qualifiers so the workload is the same per hour. Its just a few hours more?

Originally by: CCP Charlie
We can record each match individually and then while the next match starts up have someone working on the edit and compression so we can get the matches up on youtube really quickly


Edit? that takes what? 30 seconds in a editor? slice at the start point, slice the stuff after the final ship death. Compression takes no time on a decent machine which im sure you have there at CCP.

Originally by: CCP Charlie
On the final studio weekends we are all incredibly busy bringing you the live show. Instead of breaks in between matches we're bringing you studio content to enjoy. The small army of machines we have are all busy making that happen and all the team is working flat out on the show. So currently doing all the back end work involved with getting matches on youtube can't be done by us at the same time.


How is all of CCP "incredibly busy" You have 4 guys in the studio nattering and attempting to make conversation until a match begins there are alot of awkward silences too.

So we got 4 guys talking in the studio

We got 2 commentators for the match

Why are you oh so incredibly busy?

Originally by: CCP Charlie
Getting all these matches on youtube is no trivial task and with the studio segments the final weekend comprises of 70+ videos to upload, or around 13 hours of HD content. We'll strive to have this content available for you as soon as possible this week.


I'm thinking about the pure raw bandwidth you guys have at your disposal at CCP how can it take 2 days to get them uploaded?


Aeternus IV
Posted - 2010.06.22 17:47:00 - [37]
 

It's because they make the videos avaialable in high def is one reason it take a lil longer. They've got to cut out some stuff is another. Also you've seen some of the vids on youtube where the voice is off with the match... a result of whoever was doing it got hasty.

Yes I do want to watch the finals but it's not the end all be all for me. Just chill guys. I for one would like CCP to do this of all things correctly. For those of you suggesting that they fraps it while it goin... why didn't you? We could be watching it by now!

Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.06.22 18:39:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: TriadSte
*Unrelenting abuse at CCP*


Seriously mate, i can only assume this was a troll post because you seem to have no clue about the effort that's involved in organizing and running a tournament. Also the fact that you think the only things you are seeing are the only things going on is quite tragic.

Let me explain for you:

There are 2 commentators, 4 studio pundits and then stevie on the front of things. That's 7 people. Then behind the scenes there is CCP Claw, acting as ref, setting up the arena and trying to keep the games to schedule. There are a team of GMs, helping to get the teams into the system ready to fight, explaining the procedures to newcomers, answering their last minute questions and generally having to wait on them to finalize last minute details so they can do their job. They direct the players into the arena and coordinate between themselves and CCP Claw to make sure the teams warp into the arena at the same time so that it's fair. The two commentators are controlling ships called "EVETV Camera" and lock the players when they drop in the arena, then arrange the list accordingly.

When the fight is over, they have to clear the field, Claw moves over to the next match and refs again. The second GM team do their thing, the current GM team get the next set of teams ready and so on. It's a hectic process and the CCP team get no breaks in between.

And even then, this is the bare bones of things. There's sound engineers, ISDs collecting match reports, people updating the schedule and tournament website, all having to coordinate with each other to get things done at a speedy rate, alongside the regular running of the company as if it was a normal day, when clearly with so much dev involvement, the company itself is operating with less staff than usual.

As CCP Charlie has already said, there's twice as much stuff to get up to youtube from the finals weekend and they don't have the benefit to start doing this during the tournament itself, unlike the qualifiers. Personally i think he's being modest, there is more than twice the amount, and that has to go through more rigorous editing than the previous weekends.

I get the feeling i'm wasting my time explaining this stuff to you though, as you've made the typical short-sighted responses to CCP Charlie's post, so i hope in some way you'll read what i said and learn that there's plenty of work going on and have some respect for the process.

Keep it up CCP, you did a great job this year, don't let these fools spoil your achievement. The two final hurdles are the uploading the videos and handing out the prizes, which if both are done before the end of the week i think Claw and the team can claim a "perfect game". Smile

CCP Loxy

Posted - 2010.06.22 20:39:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: TriadSte
Fantasy land dribble


You just made me facepalm so hard...

Thresh Avery thank you for getting an idea of the true picture behind the scenes here. EVE Tv is still in its infancy frankly, we're a group of friends at CCP who love EVE and take a lot of personal time to put on this show for the players.

I think you'd find it hard to find a tv station that puts on such a big show and makes the whole thing available online instantly, it's not a straight forward job, and we're not a tv station :P.

TriadSte
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.22 21:12:00 - [40]
 

Im glad you facepalmed hardcore because you dont grasp my issue. What you guys actually class as "hardwork"

AT8 was awesome agreed I appreciate CCP and everyone involved I really do it was an awesome watch.

However streaming it is easy if of course your bandwidth is high enough which yours......very very almost is there was a few times when it went a little weird.
There are many games which stream matchs live for everyone to view its nothing special maybe even common thesedays?

Getting the teams into the arena doesnt sound hard to me as they surely will be listening intently to the GMs instructions. Spawning them into Jove space I presume is a simple command.

A web master will be able to update the matchs schedule online easy and very quickly.

I very honestly cannot see where all this hardwork was? unless your not used to actual hard graft?

With all that said, I'm not attempting to shoot you down I've previously stated it was awesome but I get the feeling you guys make out its actually ALOT harder than it actually is.


Constance Marie
Posted - 2010.06.22 21:21:00 - [41]
 

WTH, Why aren't they up yet? Inexcusable!

CCP Loxy

Posted - 2010.06.22 21:50:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: TriadSte
"rainbows and lollypops"


Again, facepalming so hard my hand just went out the back of my skull...

I'm not going to start showing you the time sheets of the team for the past month, your so oblivious to whats been worked on I have to cling on to the hope your trolling me.

So I'll depart from this thread asking the rest of you to please bear with us, and just for the record its 21:49 here in Iceland and yes I'm still at the office.

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.22 21:50:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: TriadSte
Im glad you facepalmed hardcore because you dont grasp my issue. What you guys actually class as "hardwork"

AT8 was awesome agreed I appreciate CCP and everyone involved I really do it was an awesome watch.

However streaming it is easy if of course your bandwidth is high enough which yours......very very almost is there was a few times when it went a little weird.
There are many games which stream matchs live for everyone to view its nothing special maybe even common thesedays?

Getting the teams into the arena doesnt sound hard to me as they surely will be listening intently to the GMs instructions. Spawning them into Jove space I presume is a simple command.

A web master will be able to update the matchs schedule online easy and very quickly.

I very honestly cannot see where all this hardwork was? unless your not used to actual hard graft?

With all that said, I'm not attempting to shoot you down I've previously stated it was awesome but I get the feeling you guys make out its actually ALOT harder than it actually is.




You are seriously out of line

If they are not pro broadcast people (and even if they were), pulling off a live show like that is *******ed* amounts of work to a small number of people, especially with all the bits involved that are not a simple camera.

JitaBum
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.06.22 21:53:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: TriadSte
Im glad you facepalmed hardcore because you dont grasp my issue. What you guys actually class as "hardwork"

AT8 was awesome agreed I appreciate CCP and everyone involved I really do it was an awesome watch.

However streaming it is easy if of course your bandwidth is high enough which yours......very very almost is there was a few times when it went a little weird.
There are many games which stream matchs live for everyone to view its nothing special maybe even common thesedays?

Getting the teams into the arena doesnt sound hard to me as they surely will be listening intently to the GMs instructions. Spawning them into Jove space I presume is a simple command.

A web master will be able to update the matchs schedule online easy and very quickly.

I very honestly cannot see where all this hardwork was? unless your not used to actual hard graft?

With all that said, I'm not attempting to shoot you down I've previously stated it was awesome but I get the feeling you guys make out its actually ALOT harder than it actually is.



Hey guy

You NEVER go full re-tard

Angel HUN
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.06.22 21:55:00 - [45]
 

You do not argue with a Unicorn.

Mr Rive
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 21:58:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: CCP Charlie
Originally by: TriadSte
"rainbows and lollypops"


Again, facepalming so hard my hand just went out the back of my skull...

I'm not going to start showing you the time sheets of the team for the past month, your so oblivious to whats been worked on I have to cling on to the hope your trolling me.

So I'll depart from this thread asking the rest of you to please bear with us, and just for the record its 21:49 here in Iceland and yes I'm still at the office.


If it makes any difference, the important people (like myself) think you guys do a great job every year, though i have gone flaccid waiting for the day 5 vids (i aint seen any of the matches yet) its only because im looking forward to them.

considering the work that goes into this kind of thing its amazing that you have managed to run it for so long without something going seriously wrong

So, for all the important people in eve, i say

:madprops:

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 22:05:00 - [47]
 

Yeah, seriously just STFU Triad...

Thanks allot for bringing this to us at all Charlie, awesome show. I understand it takes a while to do, so not trying to rush you, but do you have a rough estimate on when you think they will be up? Just want to know if I should stop updating my youtube search every hour :)

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.06.22 22:42:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: TriadSte
*useless crap*


Seriously ... you seems to be like the biggest idiot in all threads during those tournament threads.

Charlie take all the time it needs to make a good job. Oh and dont forget to get a beer or 2 while the videos render. :)

Lady Karma
Posted - 2010.06.22 23:01:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: TriadSte
My mom says I'm really special, and you people should all listen to me.



Is this one of those occasions where a personal insult will go unpunished. I have a few lined up.

Elendar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 23:04:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Mr Rive
Originally by: CCP Charlie
Originally by: TriadSte
"rainbows and lollypops"


Again, facepalming so hard my hand just went out the back of my skull...

I'm not going to start showing you the time sheets of the team for the past month, your so oblivious to whats been worked on I have to cling on to the hope your trolling me.

So I'll depart from this thread asking the rest of you to please bear with us, and just for the record its 21:49 here in Iceland and yes I'm still at the office.


If it makes any difference, the important people (like myself) think you guys do a great job every year, though i have gone flaccid waiting for the day 5 vids (i aint seen any of the matches yet) its only because im looking forward to them.

considering the work that goes into this kind of thing its amazing that you have managed to run it for so long without something going seriously wrong

So, for all the important people in eve, i say

:madprops:


What he said. I can't wait for the videos as i've not seen our matches yet but totally understand why it takes a long time.

Any rough idea which day they are likely to be out?

Graic
Posted - 2010.06.22 23:30:00 - [51]
 

Nice to see CCP in here taking time out to argue when there is obviously so much work to be done.

Honestly, guys, how hard is it to grab the footage of the FINAL. Just the final. Whack it up on YouTube. Say, "There you go guys, that's the money shot. We'll be following up over the next few days with more of the eyecandy". SURELY it cannot be that hard?

Like props to CCP for what they try to do, but you shouldn't make out that bloody everything you undertake is an Everest climb.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.06.22 23:52:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Graic
Nice to see CCP in here taking time out to argue when there is obviously so much work to be done.

Honestly, guys, how hard is it to grab the footage of the FINAL. Just the final. Whack it up on YouTube. Say, "There you go guys, that's the money shot. We'll be following up over the next few days with more of the eyecandy". SURELY it cannot be that hard?

Like props to CCP for what they try to do, but you shouldn't make out that bloody everything you undertake is an Everest climb.


You actually dont want to see the finals but the matches before. ;)

just saying.

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.22 23:53:00 - [53]
 

Everyone who is *****ing at CCP Charlie and the EVE TV team needs to HTFU. No matter what you think you know about how this works, you don't because you're not there and you don't know what is going on.

Let me clue you all in - Charlie, Claw, JamesW, Stevie and the dozen other devs that you don't even see or know the names of do this as a labor of love. They aren't getting paid extra or overtime. It's a personal thing for many of them, something that has grown over the years. They have had to fight tooth and nail for every penny of funding to put this event on, not to mention the endless number of meetings to convince everyone from Marketing to the Executive Board that it's worth their time.

It's simply amazing what the tourney has become from where it began. Many people don't even realize or remember what the first few tourneys were like. You damn kids don't know how good you got it!!! GRRRRRR!!!! LaughingRazz

Even now, despite how popular the tourney is, the actual number of CCP'ers involved in producing it is still very low. That awesome set where Soundwave was sitting with the guests and commentators? Built by hand by a few CCPers over a weekend.

As for the YouTube vids, have some ****ing patience so it can be done right and not just slapped up there. Charlie is limited by many things, but sleep isn't one of them because I've seen the guy go 2-3 days and come out the other end of a FanFest or Tourney looking like a zombie. But sometimes the six computers he has around his desk rendering the footage aren't enough, ya know, or **** just doesn't work.

To all of you who support the EVE TV guys, thank you. A few pats on the back is all they ask for in order to keep up their desire to continue producing something that is truly unique and awesome in the online gaming world. Cool

CCP Loxy

Posted - 2010.06.23 00:06:00 - [54]
 

Thanks for the support guys :).

To give you guys an update, the recordings for each day come in at 300+ gb files, simply copying these over to other machines takes ages o.0. After spending half of Monday tearing down the set and moving the equipment back to the office I started spreading the work load around the evetv machines and came up against two problems.

Firstly the Saturday recording just refuses to leave the drive its on, failing at the same point during the copying process. That has me worried but the file is still playing fine and I've decided to simply edit and compress all of Saturday's recording on that machine as that would get results quicker (assuming there are no file issues). That pc is now compressing the last match on Saturday but I still need to start on the studio content of the day.

Meanwhile the Sunday recording was working ok but somehow picked up some nasty video sync issues. Thats actually what I've spent most of the day fixing and most of the evening I've been rendering that out. Right now I'm up to rendering the quarter finals + all the studio content up to that. This still needs to be compressed.

In the past the aim was to have Day 5 up by Wednesday evening, and Day 6 by Thursday. I can't promise yet to deliver by Wednesday but I'm fairly sure unless something goes horribly wrong that it will be all online on Thursday.


This whole process is something I definitely want to improve on in the future and I already know how to do it. I just need to get funding for a few more computers, capture cards, software keys and most importantly another 2 more volunteers from ccp to give up their weekends and edit video :).

Graic
Posted - 2010.06.23 00:27:00 - [55]
 

Charlie,

Thank you. That wasn't so hard.

Giving people just a sensible reason why is enough.

You're having technical issues probably due simply to the volume of video captured on the rig you had set up for this.

Thank you!

Ikoras
Minmatar
Final Agony
B A N E
Posted - 2010.06.23 02:19:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Ikoras on 23/06/2010 02:23:58
Originally by: CCP Charlie
Thanks for the support guys :).

To give you guys an update, the recordings for each day come in at 300+ gb files, simply copying these over to other machines takes ages o.0. After spending half of Monday tearing down the set and moving the equipment back to the office I started spreading the work load around the evetv machines and came up against two problems.


Sorry I Fail to see your point probably the worst maybe even avg for euro is 12 MB upload ( and most people are around 20 now a days) and seeings how CCP is a gaming company I'd imagine you have at the very least 25mb up. it should take around 5hours max to do a full upload per day

Originally by: CCP Charlie
Firstly the Saturday recording just refuses to leave the drive its on, failing at the same point during the copying process. That has me worried but the file is still playing fine and I've decided to simply edit and compress all of Saturday's recording on that machine as that would get results quicker (assuming there are no file issues). That pc is now compressing the last match on Saturday but I still need to start on the studio content of the day.


this Happens quite often with big files sometimes it works other and unfortunate times it don't. I'm guessing you aren't running Fedora/Redhat servers or this might not of happened. This is a common problem with windows and if you are using Linux and this is happening you are doing something wrong. Although I could be wrong with server 2008, 2003 however is a different story

Originally by: CCP Charlie
Meanwhile the Sunday recording was working ok but somehow picked up some nasty video sync issues. Thats actually what I've spent most of the day fixing and most of the evening I've been rendering that out. Right now I'm up to rendering the quarter finals + all the studio content up to that. This still needs to be compressed.


Understandable

Originally by: CCP Charlie
In the past the aim was to have Day 5 up by Wednesday evening, and Day 6 by Thursday. I can't promise yet to deliver by Wednesday but I'm fairly sure unless something goes horribly wrong that it will be all online on Thursday.


Last year It was sooner if I remember Correctly, I could be wrong though.


Originally by: CCP Charlie
This whole process is something I definitely want to improve on in the future and I already know how to do it. I just need to get funding for a few more computers, capture cards, software keys and most importantly another 2 more volunteers from ccp to give up their weekends and edit video :).


If an IT isn't asking for more funding constantly he's doing it wrong :P

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.06.23 03:50:00 - [57]
 

rabble rabble rabble rabble

ShadowandLight
Amarr
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.06.23 03:59:00 - [58]
 

why dont you guys ( CCP ) just ask the community to help with this and get people recording / encoding the video ahead of time?

Im sure you would get 50 + people with awesome computers who would be GLAD to get these up on youtube as damn close to real time as possible.

CCP needs to be spending time improving the gaming universe, not having 1 - 2 people grinding through 2 TB's of video...


Viper Shizzle
The Illuminati.
Posted - 2010.06.23 04:56:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Seleene
They have had to fight tooth and nail for every penny of funding to put this event on, not to mention the endless number of meetings to convince everyone from Marketing to the Executive Board that it's worth their time.


The absolute worst thing about CCP, right there.

Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
Posted - 2010.06.23 05:54:00 - [60]
 

I know you're trolling but I'll bite just because you make it so easy to pick apart.
Originally by: TriadSte
Originally by: CCP Charlie
During the qualifying weekends we have a fraction of the work load compared to the final weekend

Please explain? each match players are spawned into a empty location, a match takes place end of story the exact same applies to the final weekend does it not? Only more matchs on a much longer time frame as when compared to the qualifiers so the workload is the same per hour. Its just a few hours more?
For simplicities sake, assume it takes 1 hour of post production for every hour of video shot. If they were to come in and shoot 4 hours of video, then that would require 4 hours to make it to the final upload, 8 hours total. If they were to add 2 more hours of video, that would result in 2 hours of post processing, meaning an extra 4 hours. In other words, the time requirement for shooting more video is multiplied by a constant > 1, making it take more time than you'd initially think.

Originally by: TriadSte
Originally by: CCP Charlie
We can record each match individually and then while the next match starts up have someone working on the edit and compression so we can get the matches up on youtube really quickly

Edit? that takes what? 30 seconds in a editor? slice at the start point, slice the stuff after the final ship death. Compression takes no time on a decent machine which im sure you have there at CCP.
Moving the video to a different computer, loading the video into the editor, skipping around to find the start/end points, exporting, watching it through at 2x to make sure it exported correctly, then doing the paperwork part of the youtube upload probably takes more like 10-15 minutes, which happens to be pretty close to how long the matches are.

Originally by: TriadSte
Originally by: CCP Charlie
On the final studio weekends we are all incredibly busy bringing you the live show. Instead of breaks in between matches we're bringing you studio content to enjoy. The small army of machines we have are all busy making that happen and all the team is working flat out on the show. So currently doing all the back end work involved with getting matches on youtube can't be done by us at the same time.

How is all of CCP "incredibly busy" You have 4 guys in the studio nattering and attempting to make conversation until a match begins there are alot of awkward silences too.

So we got 4 guys talking in the studio

We got 2 commentators for the match

Why are you oh so incredibly busy?

Ever watched the credits at the end of a movie? Ever notice that there are significantly more names on there than actors? That's because for every person on screen, you need quite a few people behind the scenes. I'd guess evetv had at least 3 camera people, probably the same number doing sound, and then 1-2 people to handle cutting between cameras and displaying what actually shows up on the stream. And that's a bare minimum.

Originally by: TriadSte
Originally by: CCP Charlie
Getting all these matches on youtube is no trivial task and with the studio segments the final weekend comprises of 70+ videos to upload, or around 13 hours of HD content. We'll strive to have this content available for you as soon as possible this week.

I'm thinking about the pure raw bandwidth you guys have at your disposal at CCP how can it take 2 days to get them uploaded?


I think one of the normal days worth of 720p video is about 2.7 gigs, the finals are probably twice that with all the content in the middle. I'd be willing to guess a minimum of 4 hours to upload all that on a "business class" connection that CCP probably has access to. And that's not factoring in youtube messing up (upload freezing, normal processing, automated copyright detector false positives, etc.). Then someone probably has to watch them all to do one final check for editing/youtube errors, and re-edit/re-upload if any are found.


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