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Tar Getdummy
Posted - 2010.06.18 07:42:00 - [1]
 

One day in the ccp office:

Programmer: Hey boss, do you have a minute?
Superior: Sure, sit down. What happend?
Programmer: I just found out I made a great mistake. You know I reprogrammed the mission routing subroutine, intended to distribute the mission load between the servers?
Superior: Yeah, great stuff.
Programmer: Well, yeah. But I just found out, it has some major kinks. You see, it will send l4 mission runners having low systems in the constellation, mostly there, and well it rips away the level 5 high sector missions, which a few people seem to like. Should I start to write a fix for that?
Superior: Bullocks. Don't waste time on this.
Programmer: But some people seem to be rather angry.
Superior: Ah, forget it. Players paying us, to make them feel something. Beside anger is the perfect feeling, to play eve.
Programmer: But some of them seem to be willing to leave the game.
Superior: Let them go, they didn't had the right spirit anyway. We don't need those care bears any way.
Programmer: But shouldn't we try to keep paying customers? Grow our player base?
Superior: Man, you start talking like our cfo. Hey, just between us. Grow, yes, but hey, you know our system architecture. What do you think, what would happen, if we would grow fast? Let's keep it slow.
Programmer: But what if it get's bad press? Man we sold them an expansion to the game and effectively, took away content. What, if someone complains harshly?
Superior: Your really greenhorn. The moment anyone will complain, he will be drowned with comments from our alliance borgs. Well, they will call him carebear, ask him if they can have thier stuff or advise him to go back to wow. Discussion closed. That has never failed.
Programmer: So all is good?
Superior: Sure. To enjoy eve you need balls of steel, and the best way to make sure of that, is that from time to time we kick in as hard as we could.
Programmer: Ok, I continue with the stuff on incarna. Guess will be another hard sell, when we have to tell them, we need another year for that.
Superior: Yeah. Well, maybe someone should write a few lines about this fix! Just to let all know, that was no mistake.

And the rest is history

Th155
Posted - 2010.06.18 07:51:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Tar Getdummy
One day in the ccp office:

Programmer: Hey boss, do you have a minute?
Superior: Sure, sit down. What happend?
Programmer: I just found out I made a great mistake. You know I reprogrammed the mission routing subroutine, intended to distribute the mission load between the servers?
Superior: Yeah, great stuff.
Programmer: Well, yeah. But I just found out, it has some major kinks. You see, it will send l4 mission runners having low systems in the constellation, mostly there, and well it rips away the level 5 high sector missions, which a few people seem to like. Should I start to write a fix for that?
Superior: Bullocks about the level 4's, good thing the level 5's are working as intended.
Programmer: But some people seem to be rather angry.
Superior: Ah, forget it. Players paying us, to make them feel something. Beside anger is the perfect feeling, to play eve.
Programmer: But some of them seem to be willing to leave the game.
Superior: We have a large enough player base, a few less won't make any difference.
Programmer: But shouldn't we try to keep paying customers? Grow our player base?
Superior: Man, you start talking like our cfo. Hey, just between us. Grow, yes, but hey, you know our system architecture. What do you think, what would happen, if we would grow fast? Let's keep it slow, that is, until 28th June.
Programmer: But what if it get's bad press? Man we sold them an expansion to the game and effectively, took away content. What, if someone complains harshly?
Superior: Your really greenhorn. The moment anyone will complain, he will be drowned with comments from our alliance borgs. Well, they will call him carebear, ask him if they can have thier stuff or advise him to go back to wow. Discussion closed. That has never failed.
Programmer: So all is good?
Superior: Sure. To enjoy eve you need balls of steel, and the best way to make sure of that, is that from time to time we kick in as hard as we could.
Programmer: Ok, I continue with the stuff on incarna. Guess will be another hard sell, when we have to tell them, we need another year for that.
Superior: Yeah. Well, maybe someone should write a few lines about this fix! Just to let all know, that was no mistake.

And the rest is history



The level 5's where always meant to be like this. Always. Low-sec only content. People who say they are for high sec but want more low sec... "Hey, you took away my L5's in high sec and expect me to go into low-sec to get them. *emoragequite*. Also, do something to populate low sec." Real hypocritical...

Also, i don't know what people are on about with the low sec, I'm doing missions in a system directly boardering low-sec, and i've only got one low-sec mission in the past 20 missions... The forums make it sound like 19 every 20 in low-sec...

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 08:13:00 - [3]
 

I'd recommend you to look here for a probable reason to why CCP are fixing L5's.

Keeping the few L5 high-sec whiners is not at all important compared to keeping the basic fabric of the game intact and viable...

davcin
Caldari
davcin Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 08:21:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Th155

The level 5's where always meant to be like this. Always. Low-sec only content. People who say they are for high sec but want more low sec... "Hey, you took away my L5's in high sec and expect me to go into low-sec to get them. *emoragequite*. Also, do something to populate low sec." Real hypocritical...

Also, i don't know what people are on about with the low sec, I'm doing missions in a system directly boardering low-sec, and i've only got one low-sec mission in the past 20 missions... The forums make it sound like 19 every 20 in low-sec...


That all may be true, but to populate low sec with PVE lvl5 fitted ships only helps pirates and will lead to pilots stopping doing lvl5 missions since they cant fight back.

I already said it before, PVE players don't want to do PVP and don't want to be forced into it.
They will rather leave EVE if that happens (me included). And yes, if that happens, you can all have my stuff.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 09:16:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: davcin
That all may be true, but to populate low sec with PVE lvl5 fitted ships only helps pirates and will lead to pilots stopping doing lvl5 missions since they cant fight back.

Then go as a fleet in mostly PvP fits and kill the pirates too... It's not rocket science...
Originally by: davcin
I already said it before, PVE players don't want to do PVP and don't want to be forced into it.

Too bad for them... Then they'll only enjoy about 10% of what EVE has to offer.

This game is not intended for the PvE segment. The whole structure of the game requires that players lose stuff, and PvE'ers disrupt that. EVE can support some PvE'ers, but too many would destroy the game as the player economy will collapse.

That is why limiting the good content to the players who actually dare to risk their stuff is a very good game design decision.
Originally by: davcin
They will rather leave EVE if that happens (me included).

If you read the post I quoted above, you'll see that is actually not a bad thing...

This is not a game that wants to compete with WoW! If you look at the graveyard of games that has tried to do that, you should understand why.
Instead CCP has chosen to make a smaller (but still very profitable) game that caters to the more hardcore segment. CCP now OWNS that niche the same way Blizzard owns the fluffy MMO scene.
If they try to convert the game into something fluffy, they'll first of all lose the hardcore players, and secondly will most likely just die like the rest of WoW's challengers.

Keeping players is not a priority. Keeping the RIGHT players for the game structure IS!

My Postman
Posted - 2010.06.18 09:36:00 - [6]
 

Good read, bro.

As other posters mentioned, L5´s were´nt dedicated to highsec. Ok.

When qoting the "alliance borgs" you forgot the answer "than bring a 10+ pvp squad to lowsec to protect you", but Kefira fixed it for you.

+ 3 Internets for you, sir.

davcin
Caldari
davcin Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 10:37:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kerfira

Then go as a fleet in mostly PvP fits and kill the pirates too... It's not rocket science...



Yes, I know but that is forcing the PVE players to go to PVP in my book.

Originally by: Kerfira

If you read the post I quoted above, you'll see that is actually not a bad thing...

This is not a game that wants to compete with WoW! If you look at the graveyard of games that has tried to do that, you should understand why.
Instead CCP has chosen to make a smaller (but still very profitable) game that caters to the more hardcore segment. CCP now OWNS that niche the same way Blizzard owns the fluffy MMO scene.
If they try to convert the game into something fluffy, they'll first of all lose the hardcore players, and secondly will most likely just die like the rest of WoW's challengers.

Keeping players is not a priority. Keeping the RIGHT players for the game structure IS!



Again, that all may be true and it even makes a bit of sense. But still, I believed this was a sandbox game where players could choose freely their playing style without being forced to choose a playing style. Maybe I was wrong.



Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.18 10:45:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Tar Getdummy
One day in the ccp office:
Programmer: Hey boss, do you have a minute?



First, you're watching too many sitcoms about the workplace; people don't usually talk like that in a programmer / office environment (they typically use first names, rather than "Boss"). And second, both the Programmer and the Superior understand the technical details behind the issue, so they would talk code, rather than that emo sitcom dialogue you've written.

davcin
Caldari
davcin Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 10:49:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
First, you're watching too many sitcoms about the workplace; people don't usually talk like that in a programmer / office environment (they typically use first names, rather than "Boss"). And second, both the Programmer and the Superior understand the technical details behind the issue, so they would talk code, rather than that emo sitcom dialogue you've written.


I guess you don't work in my office Wink

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 11:04:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: davcin
Yes, I know but that is forcing the PVE players to go to PVP in my book.

This is not a PvE game, but a PvP game that ALLOWS players to ALSO do PvE. There is a very distinct difference between the two.
Originally by: davcin
I believed this was a sandbox game where players could choose freely their playing style without being forced to choose a playing style. Maybe I was wrong.

Yes, you are...

That EVE is a 'sandbox game' doesn't mean that you get to do everything you like the way you like it and damn all the rest!

It means that you get the sand, and the toys, and THEN you can use them as you wish!

Sometimes a new type of sand is put into the sandbox, sometimes a toy breaks and a new different one is put in, and sometimes a manufacturing fault is discovered in a toy and fixed.
The last is exactly what is being done with L5's!

The EVE sandbox has three areas. The first area is for the small children and is supervised by adults who'll not tolerate misconduct. The toys in this area are small and fluffy.
The second area is for the bigger kids and has larger toys. The adults keep a distant eye on it, and if some of the bigger kids get too much out of line will give them a stern talking to.
The third area has the best toys and no adult supervision. Everything goes!

People only doing PvE have chosen to play in the small children's area of the sandbox, and thus doesn't get to play with anything but the small fluffy toys.

Gordon Fell
Posted - 2010.06.18 11:11:00 - [11]
 

'seem to be willing to leave the game' is such a lame argument. You do realize no one actually does this, right?

davcin
Caldari
davcin Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 11:17:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Kerfira

That EVE is a 'sandbox game' doesn't mean that you get to do everything you like the way you like it and damn all the rest!



Aren't you doing the same thing when saying this is a PVP game and not a PVE game?

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 11:24:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 18/06/2010 11:24:11
Originally by: davcin
Originally by: Kerfira

That EVE is a 'sandbox game' doesn't mean that you get to do everything you like the way you like it and damn all the rest!

Aren't you doing the same thing when saying this is a PVP game and not a PVE game?

No. That is the basic design of the game!

The game can't work unless people's stuff gets blown up.

You don't get to ride a pony in-game either just because you want to, but your 'want' of wanting to do the best stuff is EXACTLY as valid as if you claimed you wanted to ride that pony: Incompatible with the basic game design!

You use the 'sandbox' excuse for wanting to do things that are not in the intended game design, nor in the best interest of the long-term viability of the game.

Remember, you've got no need to convince ME, but need to convince CCP if you want things changed.
THEY are intimately aware of what the game is and is intended to be, and your small selfish arguments has absolutely NO chance of changing that, for exactly the reasons I've outlined!

Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.06.18 11:48:00 - [14]
 

Even in PvE you got the risk of PvP. Reason I guess why CCP made it so easy to scan out a mission runner. And that can vary from salvaging the mission runners wrecks, looting them and see if the PvE guy starts shooting the red blinky to jumping in a stealing the mission objective (item) then putting it up for hopefully not an outrageous ransom.

To the OP, as mentioned L5's where never intended to be in high sec. Get over it. Join a corp that "claims" some low sec. or has access to 0.0 nap fest.

davcin
Caldari
davcin Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 12:36:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Kerfira

Remember, you've got no need to convince ME, but need to convince CCP if you want things changed.
THEY are intimately aware of what the game is and is intended to be, and your small selfish arguments has absolutely NO chance of changing that, for exactly the reasons I've outlined!



Well, actually I don't have to convince anyone. If someone doesn't like how the game is heading it is better to leave and search for something else.

But I agree that Lvl5 missions should be low-sec only. And believe that Lvl4 should be high-sec only (the higher high-sec missions available).

Also, the PVE/PVP think could be allot reduced if the fittings needed to do any of them were the same. As it is, you need to fit the ship for PVE OR PVP. The same fit rarely does a good job in both PVE and PVP. This would also give a better fighting change for mission runners that are attacked by pirates (and others) since they would have their ships fitted for combat with other players.


Pennwisedom
Gallente
Sublime.
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:14:00 - [16]
 

See original dev blog:

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=432

Now because you're probably slow, I'll quote the important part:

Quote:
Levels 5 and up are all in 0.4 security and below.

Natalie Caladan
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:24:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Th155
The level 5's where always meant to be like this. Always. Low-sec only content.

Yes, perhaps. And like shopping malls inside active volcanos or sunny resorts on the North pole, no-one ever comes there.

One may even ask why they are there in the first place.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:29:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Natalie Caladan
Yes, perhaps. And like shopping malls inside active volcanos or sunny resorts on the North pole, no-one ever comes there.

One may even ask why they are there in the first place.
Because there are plenty of people who do them, and because you're basing your information about volcano malls and north pole beaches on information handed out by the Equatorial Sales Tent and Grasslands Conglomerate™.

Terazuk
Amarr
Servants of Drawnon
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:53:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: davcin


Also, the PVE/PVP think could be allot reduced if the fittings needed to do any of them were the same.




While on the surface this seems a reasonable statement in actuality you are way off mark because you CAN do the missions in PvP ships. With the right ships in your fleet... and the operative word here is "fleet" you can walk all over lv5s or whatever flavour of npc bashing you care to try your hand at.

The key here as has already been mentioned by others is to have lots of friends/corp-mates with you. The bigger your fleet the less likely pirates will want to try and tangle with you.

Almost without exception anybody attacking you will do so because of a perceived superiority in both numbers and/or ship-types. Be the superior force and keep your wits about you and you may need never have to actually engage in combat.

Natalie Caladan
Posted - 2010.06.18 13:57:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 18/06/2010 13:57:57
Originally by: Terazuk

Almost without exception anybody attacking you will do so because of a perceived superiority in both numbers and/or ship-types. Be the superior force and keep your wits about you and you may need never have to actually engage in combat.

The downside may actually be that your ISK/hour will be a lot lower than doing solo L4s in highsec with expensive "perfect" fittings?

Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.06.18 14:00:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Tippia
you're basing your information about volcano malls and north pole beaches on information handed out by the Equatorial Sales Tent and Grasslands Conglomerate™.


I can't believe I tried to look that up. /o\ lol

Libin Herobi
Posted - 2010.06.18 16:57:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Pennwisedom
See original dev blog:

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=432

Now because you're probably slow, I'll quote the important part:

Quote:
Levels 5 and up are all in 0.4 security and below.



Because you probably skipped something, I'll quote the important part:
Quote:
We're adding more Agent levels

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.06.18 18:03:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 18/06/2010 18:04:07
Originally by: davcin
Originally by: Merouk Baas
First, you're watching too many sitcoms about the workplace; people don't usually talk like that in a programmer / office environment (they typically use first names, rather than "Boss"). And second, both the Programmer and the Superior understand the technical details behind the issue, so they would talk code, rather than that emo sitcom dialogue you've written.


I guess you don't work in my office Wink


Apparently, judging from the amount of time you have spent on your posts and your overblown sense of self-entitlement, you don't do much work in your office either. Smile

I'm still trying to work out (just using hypothetical numbers) how I make more money by doing doing 1 L5 mission by myself in two hours, as opposed to taking 5 people with me and doing 5 level 5 missions in the same 2 hours.

Or for that matter how it is unfair that some people can't/won't figure out how to do L5 missions in low sec when other people can/will do them easily.

Roderak Pleem
Minmatar
Abandoned Land
Posted - 2010.06.18 18:13:00 - [24]
 

Most of the people complaining about the level 5 bug fix are people who expect all PVE content to be available to people who play alone.

All missions, from level 1 to level 5 can be run in PVP fitted ships when done with friends. In fact, I would recommend to anyone reading to actually go out and make some MMO friends, fit cheap PVP ships, and run missions as gangs (even in high sec). You'll be glad you did. Building a team is great fun. Then take your PVP fitted gang out, kill the NPCs in your level 5 and feel better prepared to take on whatever else might show up in your mission space. Bring tackle, learn to use the directional scanner, etc. etc. Have a great time and earn some LP while you are at it.

I realize eve makes everyone paranoid. YIKES! DON'T TRUST ANYONE! but at some point you need to take that leap, make friends and socialize, and quit your bltchln!

If you prefer to play alone, your PVE content is now more restricted. deal. with. it.

Shawshanke
Posted - 2010.06.18 18:27:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: davcin

Too bad for them... Then they'll only enjoy about 10% of what EVE has to offer.



What game have you been playing? This game is 70% carebears and every expansion adds more to the carebear experience that to the pvp experience.

There are few things to do in the pvp avenue all of witch are either an aspect of camping or roaming where as pve has a far longer list that keeps growing.


Pennwisedom
Gallente
Sublime.
Posted - 2010.06.18 18:35:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Libin Herobi
Originally by: Pennwisedom
See original dev blog:

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=432

Now because you're probably slow, I'll quote the important part:

Quote:
Levels 5 and up are all in 0.4 security and below.



Because you probably skipped something, I'll quote the important part:
Quote:
We're adding more Agent levels



Yes, and L5 was the new level they added. So what is your point? Level 6 and 7 were decided to be added in exploration instead of actual missions. And those that were added at those relative difficulties do in fact exist only .4 and lower.

So again, the original intention was that L5s only existed in lowsec. If you can find something where they say something different (but I know you can't), I'd like to see it. Until then this thread and it's attempted trolls get a 2/10.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2010.06.18 21:05:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: davcin
Originally by: Kerfira

Then go as a fleet in mostly PvP fits and kill the pirates too... It's not rocket science...



Yes, I know but that is forcing the PVE players to go to PVP in my book.


No it isn't, because you can still run L4's in high sec.

Gloria Stitz
Posted - 2010.06.18 21:07:00 - [28]
 



JSFW


Really


.



Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.06.18 21:15:00 - [29]
 

LVL 5 missions were not intended for you. They were never supposed to be playable by you. LVL 5 missions are there for LOWSEC players to enjoy, with their whole corp involved in locking down the system and running the mission. There are problems with LVL 5 missions right now. Them being in lowsec is not one of them.

If you want to become a lowsec player and play level 5 missions, there is plenty of room for you and a lot of lowsec corps that would love to have you (assuming you don't just quit the fist time you get blown up).

Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.06.18 22:19:00 - [30]
 

what!? you could do lvl 5 in highsec!?

god...

missioning has not been nerfed enough. missioning in highsec needs to be on par with mining in highsec.


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