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Sha'Aryn
Minmatar
Republic Industry and Logistics for Expatriots
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.06.17 03:57:00 - [1]
 

Extractors set to the 96 hour cycle are not depleting. They seem to count down for a day, then reset to the full 3 days.

Luna Cii
Posted - 2010.06.17 04:13:00 - [2]
 

96 hours = 4 days

Menkaure
Amarr
LEM0N
Posted - 2010.06.17 04:16:00 - [3]
 

Can't confirm this, but I think it's actually happening. I swear I've not touched some of my noble gas extractors for a week or more after having set them to 96 hour cycles.

However, I may be going insane. Will watch over the next 2 days....


Sha'Aryn
Minmatar
Republic Industry and Logistics for Expatriots
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.06.17 04:17:00 - [4]
 

w/e my math was wrong. That doesn't change the fact that the extractors I set the day the land rush began still show 3 days till depletion.

Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2010.06.17 04:56:00 - [5]
 

Have you sent a bug report about that issue?

While CCP wrote in reply to mine they are aware of the issue, but more information can never hurt.

Luna Cii
Posted - 2010.06.17 06:08:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Luna Cii on 17/06/2010 06:08:57
Originally by: Sha'Aryn
w/e my math was wrong. That doesn't change the fact that the extractors I set the day the land rush began still show 3 days till depletion.


Sorry, I thought maybe you set them for 4 days, then checked them the next day and went "WTF, there are still 3 days left."

Anyway, I hope mine get stuck like that. I'm getting real tired of all the click click click clickety clickety click click click click clickety clickety click clickety clickety clickety clickety click that comes with PI. If they don't come up with an option to start extractors as a group, I think I will delete my colonies and forget that this expansion even happened.

Michaela Hunt
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.06.17 07:13:00 - [7]
 

Same thing happened here; reported, but haven't gotten a reply yet.

Pytria Le'Danness
Posted - 2010.06.17 07:35:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Luna Cii
Anyway, I hope mine get stuck like that.


The problem is that the long run cycles are very inefficient in terms of output. My planets are stuck in the 4 day cycle for over a week now and the available products barely increased.
I cannot do anything about it except take the financial hit of deleting and starting over.

Quote:
I'm getting real tired of all the click click click clickety clickety click click click click clickety clickety click clickety clickety clickety clickety click that comes with PI. If they don't come up with an option to start extractors as a group, I think I will delete my colonies and forget that this expansion even happened.


I'm with you here. I'm on the fence of deleting everything or setting up a long chain that I don't have to watch as often due to this bug. Having a whole industry (fuel->POS->moon goo->moon production->T2) depend on this click-fest... wow. Poor POS managers sure got the shaft with this "expansion".

A four day max cycle (if the bug ever gets fixed) is a bit short as far as RL is concerned. If I am on a vacation for a week the planets will run out of work after half the time. This is why I shut down our POS operation - the only benefit of PI is that right now there is no cost associated with idling structures. But if you look ahead and add the possibility of a DUST attack and whatnot... I am not sure PI is worth that effort.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2010.06.17 08:42:00 - [9]
 

The bug is known by CCP.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.06.17 08:47:00 - [10]
 

Yeah deffo something weird

On friday I put a few in for 96hrs
now they have 2d22h left

I've re-done most of them as I was playing with layouts etc [still am really]

Lord Ashen
Posted - 2010.06.17 08:49:00 - [11]
 

same thing, resets back to full after 2 days or something, rather annoying

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2010.06.17 09:59:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 17/06/2010 10:00:37
This "bug" is actually a good thing isn't it?
Why would you complain when it mean no click-fest?

It could be used to fix the wack-a-mole gameplay for those that don't want to refresh extractors everyday.

Maybe setting the 4th option to much lower per-cycle yield and use this "bug" as a "feature".

edit: adding the option to cancel an extraction to get out of this loop of course.

Harrent
Posted - 2010.06.17 10:56:00 - [13]
 

@ thread

This is not a bug, this is a feature. Read the Devblog again. They specifically say that the resourses REFILL.

This means that based on your planets net value left, they replenish everyday at downtime; in other words, if you do not extract more than the planet replenishes, it may NEVER run out.

End thread.

Sha'Aryn
Minmatar
Republic Industry and Logistics for Expatriots
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:10:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 17/06/2010 11:12:27
Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 17/06/2010 11:11:58
Originally by: Harrent
@ thread

This is not a bug, this is a feature. Read the Devblog again. They specifically say that the resourses REFILL.

This means that based on your planets net value left, they replenish everyday at downtime; in other words, if you do not extract more than the planet replenishes, it may NEVER run out.

End thread.


Good to know, but we shouldn't have to read the devblog whenever something doesn't seem to work right. My time is much to valuable to be memorizing everything the devs intend, but sloppily deliver. If it's a permanent cycle, then it should say that it's permanent in the installation menu. Mad

So now, I'll have to decommission dozens of extractors and reset them for shorter cycles.

Yes, we need an option to cancel a cycle...

Richard Christy
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:28:00 - [15]
 

Please do not question any bugs. There are no bugs. Everything is perfect. And working as intended.

PhantomMajor
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:33:00 - [16]
 

if the extractors are still extracting after the 96 hours are up... what's the problem... you're still receiving your harvested productsYARRRR!!

Harrent
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:56:00 - [17]
 

1.)
Originally by: Sha'Aryn
Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 17/06/2010 11:12:27
Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 17/06/2010 11:11:58
Good to know, but we shouldn't have to read the devblog whenever something doesn't seem to work right. My time is much to valuable to be memorizing everything the devs intend, but sloppily deliver.



1.) FFS... thats what the devblogs are for. I'm sure the hundreds of people that have read this have time that is more valuable than yours and they read them... Confused

2.)
Originally by: Sha'Aryn
Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 17/06/2010 11:12:27
Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 17/06/2010 11:11:58
If it's a permanent cycle, then it should say that it's permanent in the installation menu. Mad



2.) The planets resourse distribution differs after a few days, also, the number of people on it differ. If, by the time downtime comes around, the profile of the planet changes, it will deplete faster—therefore it is ridiculous to even put such a feature in as it means NOTHING.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:23:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Harrent
@ thread

This is not a bug, this is a feature. Read the Devblog again. They specifically say that the resourses REFILL.

This means that based on your planets net value left, they replenish everyday at downtime; in other words, if you do not extract more than the planet replenishes, it may NEVER run out.

End thread.


While you're right about resources refilling, it has nothing to do with 4 day cycles never ending. It is a bug.

Go play with PI if you're going try to be an expert on it, or at least brush up on reading comprehension if you're going to chastise others about reading devblogs.


Harrent
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:33:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Harrent on 17/06/2010 12:35:38
Edited by: Harrent on 17/06/2010 12:34:49
Originally by: War Kitten
Originally by: Harrent
@ thread

This is not a bug, this is a feature. Read the Devblog again. They specifically say that the resourses REFILL.

This means that based on your planets net value left, they replenish everyday at downtime; in other words, if you do not extract more than the planet replenishes, it may NEVER run out.

End thread.


While you're right about resources refilling, it has nothing to do with 4 day cycles never ending. It is a bug.

Go play with PI if you're going try to be an expert on it, or at least brush up on reading comprehension if you're going to chastise others about reading devblogs.




Wrong.

Case in point. If you have a 0.0 Planet with 1 person gathering 1 resource on a 96 HR cycle with all processors (meaning theres only 1 extractor running on the entire planet.

In the stated case the resource will never deplete for that single extractor. Since resources are based off the % left, they will constantly refil it back to a point where it makes little difference on whether or not you check on it.

Granted, this is not the norm, but if someone gets into a C4 or higher wormhole and on a planet that is hard to find (requires remote sensing 5), he may just find this scenario.

Try talking less and thinking more.

-H

.

Luna Cii
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:50:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Harrent


Try talking less and thinking more.

-H

.


Resources don't have anything to do with the extractor timers. Maybe you should take your own advice.

Harrent
Posted - 2010.06.17 13:17:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Harrent on 17/06/2010 13:43:43

Originally by: Luna Cii
Originally by: Harrent


Try talking less and thinking more.

-H

.


Resources don't have anything to do with the extractor timers. Maybe you should take your own advice.


Wrong.

The amount of resourses replenished on the planet at the given location has a direct impact on the extractor timer.

Case in point: yesterday i set a 5 hour schedule at 3AM, at 7AM downtime happened, i returned at 11AM and found the extractor was still extracting.

-Take my advice :).

Harrent
Posted - 2010.06.17 13:26:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: CCP Incognito
There appears to be some wrong information floating around.

A) Yes there is depletion, the more extractors that are in an area the faster a resource depletes. How fast depends on how many extractors and what kind of deposits you use. There is a 'ideal' number of players for each planet based on factors I am not going to reveal.
B) Resource regenerate over time.
C) There is a minimum resource level, it is defined as a percentage of the initial un-depleted value.
D) There is no redistribution of resources, it works like a hole. You dig a hole with extractors and it fills back in over time. If you dig at the same rate as it refills the hole it will never empty.

Hope this clears things up.



FINALLY found it.

Hope this solves this thread.

ApollyN
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2010.06.17 13:57:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: ApollyN on 17/06/2010 13:57:51
Originally by: Harrent
Originally by: CCP Incognito
There appears to be some wrong information floating around.

A) Yes there is depletion, the more extractors that are in an area the faster a resource depletes. How fast depends on how many extractors and what kind of deposits you use. There is a 'ideal' number of players for each planet based on factors I am not going to reveal.
B) Resource regenerate over time.
C) There is a minimum resource level, it is defined as a percentage of the initial un-depleted value.
D) There is no redistribution of resources, it works like a hole. You dig a hole with extractors and it fills back in over time. If you dig at the same rate as it refills the hole it will never empty.

Hope this clears things up.




FINALLY found it.

Hope this solves this thread.


Still confused here

So resources regenerate over time, we are all aware of this. However, if I set a 5 hour cycle on a rich planet it wont run forever, no matter how much resources I'm pullin out so why does a 96 hour cycle not run for 96 hours? Has nothing to do with resource availability, why are extractors running for more than the time quoted..is it a bug?

Dalden V
Blue Lounge Industries
Posted - 2010.06.17 14:37:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Harrent


Granted, this is not the norm, but if someone gets into a C4 or higher wormhole and on a planet that is hard to find (requires remote sensing 5), he may just find this scenario.

.


I'm in a C4 wormhole, doing PI on planets where I'm the only person with extractors on those planets and on the 23 hour cycle I have to restart them every day.

In my case the resources were not depleted, a scan shows the hotspot at exactly the same place, in some cases with full bars. Re-running the survey of the extractor right after it shuts down after 23 hours still produces 2000+ resources per 30 mins on a 23 hour cycle.

The question is, why are some 96 hour cycles auto-restarting, and others you have to re-survey and restart manually?

Luna Cii
Posted - 2010.06.17 14:39:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Harrent
Edited by: Harrent on 17/06/2010 13:43:43

Originally by: Luna Cii
Originally by: Harrent


Try talking less and thinking more.

-H

.


Resources don't have anything to do with the extractor timers. Maybe you should take your own advice.


Wrong.

The amount of resourses replenished on the planet at the given location has a direct impact on the extractor timer.

Case in point: yesterday i set a 5 hour schedule at 3AM, at 7AM downtime happened, i returned at 11AM and found the extractor was still extracting.

-Take my advice :).


Christ your dense. A 5 hour timer is a 5 hour timer, no matter the amount of resources you are extracting.

Its like a microwave timer. You set the time and it turns off after its done. If your microwave keeps going after the timer ran out because you still had unpoped kernels of popcorn left, you have a broken microwave.

The bug is when downtime comes around and some gremlin sneak in and monkeys with your timer.

Johnny cruz
Posted - 2010.06.17 14:49:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Harrent
Edited by: Harrent on 17/06/2010 13:43:43

Originally by: Luna Cii
Originally by: Harrent


Try talking less and thinking more.

-H

.


Resources don't have anything to do with the extractor timers. Maybe you should take your own advice.


Wrong.

The amount of resourses replenished on the planet at the given location has a direct impact on the extractor timer.

Case in point: yesterday i set a 5 hour schedule at 3AM, at 7AM downtime happened, i returned at 11AM and found the extractor was still extracting.

-Take my advice :).


Ok so, you managed to reproduce this -BUG- with a 5hour cycle. This has nothing to do with the fact that those timers are TIMERS, not time until the resource is depleted. If those timers represented depletion, then how would you be able to start up a timer after it has expired on the same day?

This is a bug, just as much as the phantom resource disappearance during downtime for factories is. I'll continue to believe it's a bug until I see a dev blog saying "yeah this wasn't intended, but we're going to keep it this way". Your little quoted post says nothing about this current discussion.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2010.06.17 15:26:00 - [27]
 

My w-space 4 day cycles finally ended! It took a week, but now I can set them on new deposits. My empire 4 day cycles are in continuous reset mode, never getting to shorter times. Other empire extractors are on 23 hour cycle, and they ALWAYS end in 23 hours, even though that cycle bridges a down time.

Looks like a bug to me.

Durin Sarga
Posted - 2010.06.17 16:15:00 - [28]
 

Ok, so for those who are talking about an extractor being a timer, let's do a little thinking OUTSIDE the box.

An extractor is a machine which does just that, it extracts. Kind of like an oil pump. You set the rate at which it extracts and it runs. (i.e. 1500 units per hour)

A survey tells you how much material is in a given location (i.e. below your extractor there are 90,000 units)

Based on your extraction rate, and the material below (taking into account efficiency loss for extracting faster) you can CALCULATE the time to depletion.

Therefore, your extractors are not like OVENS. They operate like EXTRACTORS. This is not baking, this is more like oil drilling.

Now, let's throw into the concept the fact that planets will regenerate material over time (from what we have gathered so far it is every DT).

If you extract less than what the planet regenerates (EXT < REGEN) then you will never reach the bottom.

If you extract more than what the planet regenerates (EXT > REGEN) then you will eventually reach the bottom (may be a long time).

If you extract a LOT more than what the planet regenerates (EXT >> REGEN) then you will reach the bottom of your surveyed deposit quickly (i.e. 5-hrs)

tl;dr - Extractors are not time based, they are material based. The time is the calculated/estimated Time To Depletion (TTD). Planets regenerate, TTD gets recalculated, it appears time gets added.

Again, if any developer sees this and this is invalid, please correct me.

I'm not saying the system is bug free. There have been reports of extractors magically starting, not extracting properly, etc. These are legit. However, this TTD 'bug' I believe to NOT be a bug, but mathematics at work.

Di Mulle
Posted - 2010.06.17 17:58:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Durin Sarga


I'm not saying the system is bug free. There have been reports of extractors magically starting, not extracting properly, etc. These are legit. However, this TTD 'bug' I believe to NOT be a bug, but mathematics at work.


Well, this mathematics at work was never communicated and with all the attributes of extractors clearly showing that their timer function is primary... actually, whatever, how I can set that extractor to lesser timer now ?

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2010.06.17 18:10:00 - [30]
 

It was also never discussed in this method by CCP during the testing phases. You are twisting the issue by trying to rationalize the bug with 'logic' of how an extractor would work in real life. CCP has acknowledged the bug, in the bug reporting systems, so stop spreading misinformation. The part of the dev blog about resource depletion/replenishment is about the levels IN THE PLANET. It hasn't got anything to do with when the extractor will shut down, and it was never said by anyone but yourself that it DID. The only impact the resource management system has on the extractors, is a multiplier for the cycle yield that is determined at the start of the extraction.


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