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Uma Shakti
Posted - 2010.06.11 13:42:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Uma Shakti on 11/06/2010 13:50:56
Let me start by saying that I think PI is an excellent idea and that the execution so far is very good. I take it that what we are seeing is a first, tentative implementation of a much larger vision for what planets will eventually become. I like it.

I do have a few suggestions for the developers however. Here goes:

1. Slider controls. Please allow the rate of manufacturing to be controlled at the factory. Probably the most straightforward way is to include a slider that can be adjusted between 0 and 100%. Optionally, you might include a feature that 'overheats' the factory but results in future down-time? In any case, the point of this is to allow players to fine-tune the rates remotely and fidget with how their industrial operations are moving along. It adds realism and it allows for a much more satisfying outcome.

2. Upgrades. Please allow us to upgrade both the command centres and the various other buildings locally. This might even cost resources in addition to isk. That's fine. But having to destroy 5 fully functioning production chains a few times is discouraging and pointless. Take inspiration from Ikariam in this respect.

3. Connectivity. Our colonies should interact with other colonies (and not just via proxy wars). Also, the solar systems should be allowed to develop some sort of local identity. For this reason, please let the space-ports transport in-system and between players without tedious hauling or 1-time contract trading. I don't want to spend the rest of my Eve life running back to my 'home' system to micro-manage every few hours. Nothing kills the spirit of exploration like a tether.

4. Limit utilitarianism. There is absolutely no reason why the buildings we put up in on our planets must all be utilitarian in nature. I'd be happy to buy entertainment complexes, gardens, office buildings, residential facilities (of various architectural types) and so on. If some of these have some small bonuses to production attached, so be it. If they just look pretty and make my planetary cities more interesting, that's fine too. Not everything needs to translate into isk/second.

5. Free the market. Speaking of isk/second though, can you please stop propping up the market on advanced commodities? We can now produce them at a rate of (at least) 2 per day. There's really no reason why there should be an NPC sell order in Jitta for 2000 nano-factories at 0.49M each. As long as orders like that exist, producers will hang on to their goods. Please let the market spike and settle soon.

[Edit: The market looks fine this morning. Thanks for freeing it up. I should have looked more closely.]

Anyway, that's all from me for now. Thanks for a fun new toy and best of luck with future expansion. I hope it comes soon! Smile

Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
Posted - 2010.06.11 13:53:00 - [2]
 

I fully agree with that.
If it will stay like it is now, i dont think PI will have a big future.
Its not a lot of fun how it is now, its quite painful and really need some improvements.

Vasundhara
Posted - 2010.06.11 17:55:00 - [3]
 

The only thing I really want is for them to let you reset the cycle on extractors as some form of bulk operation. Adding a numeric value on the bars for the planet scanning interface would be nice too but not required.

Not to be overly critical, but here is my take.

1. If this is added, default the slider to 100% and obscure it in the interface so I never have to mess with it.
2. I like the current design, forces players to think ahead before comitting to a setup. Once I get the Elite CCs next week it won't matter anyways.
3. If you are talking about trading between planetary colonies I'm going to have to disagree on this. I don't want to have a separate 'planet' market and the standard market interface. There is already enough partitioning in that the market is only by region. I don't want to have to have system by system planetary trading systems I have to consider on top of that. However, I wouldn't mind allowing this strictly between corporation members to encourage corp play and cooperation.
4. As it stands, the PI interface is too simplified a representation for me to care about if one of the many circles on the map is named "Miner Housing". Maybe when Dust comes out if you can put up facilities to assist the mercenary teams defend your installation I'll care then but I don't need a nail salon competing for grid or even just space with my felsic magma extractor. Lets not make this PI so involved that nobody has time to play the rest of EvE anymore. For added complexity and realism, we have Sim-City.
5. CCP stated that this was their intention.

Astralnut
Posted - 2010.06.11 18:59:00 - [4]
 

I like PI the way it is but one suggestion:
I want an Extraction que like the training que. When one deposit is depleted go to the next one until you run out of deposites.
Smile




1Skywar
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:01:00 - [5]
 

I hate those things that totally stops your colony from working. Absolute limits of pg and cpu, extraction time limit, link reaches it's maximum capacity.

pg and cpu:
I'd like to see that if you accidentally reached limits of pg or cpu, your extractor and factory output would get 0.01% output penalty for every pg or cpu you are over. so if you used 1000 pg too much, your outputs would drop by 10%

planetary link limit:
every % you overuse the link, the pg and cpu use of the link increases by 2%. it's cheaper to upgrade the link than to overuse. but if you want to run extractors at high rate for a while, the link will adjust a bit. also if this link overuse causes cpu and pg overuse then your extraction rates takes the hit.

extraction times:
Instead of the extraction depletion time and extraction rate alternatives, have 2 of them. first is standard that extracts at high rate for a moment and then slows down in a day and totally stops after few weeks(somewhat like it is now 30min/5h/23h/96h+2weeks). second one would extract at higher rate but would waste 33% of the resources... so more resources but you'd deplete the hotspot fast.

I think the command centers shouldn't have the best one, the elite. Instead make them all different.
Elite: 20mil, med PG, high CPU
Advanced: 7mil, high PG, med CPU
Improved: 4mil, med PG and med CPU
Basic: 50k isk, med PG and low CPU, +20% extraction amount, +33% waste, 5000m3 storage
Limited: 50k isk, low PG and med CPU, 5000m3 storage, no extra taxes from 'Launch'

Lorianor
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:40:00 - [6]
 

1. Dont see a need for this i always use a launchpad as a buffer.
2. yes this is reasonable
3. Arrow !! contracts should be enabled/possible in the customs office !!
4. ok but just with walking on planet
5. will be done just wait and make a pile

Jannakar
Posted - 2010.06.11 20:55:00 - [7]
 

I have just one suggestion at the moment - have a more extensive overview in the Science/Industry tab. I don't mind opening the Planet View to do stuff, but I don't see it necessary to see stuff in storage/time to depletion/cycle times etc.


Harrent
Posted - 2010.06.12 04:43:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Harrent on 12/06/2010 04:44:01
Exclamation When entering "planet mode" minimize all open windows. After all, i cant do anything with them once in PI now can i? Wink

Exclamation let me Survey with all extractors at once while holding CTRL. I hate having to survey 20 times PER COLONY every 5 HOURS, 23 or 96 HOURS! (repetative?) Evil or Very Mad

Idea Optional Mail (EVEGATE) notifcation (mail) when certain storage is at 50% / 75% maximum. (this way i know which colonies to check / unload first)

Idea Extractors not doing anything flash red? (optional?) I really hate coming back and finding that i forgot to start one Shocked

Idea Planet Management skills - Power grid savings, CPU savings, etc... (similar to those done for ships, WU / AWU / etc... )

Idea Option to work with other people on your planet to create advanced products.

---=Legend=-----
Exclamation Urgent Suggestion
Idea = Idea
---========-----




Finn McCaan
Caldari
Posted - 2010.06.12 12:01:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Finn McCaan on 12/06/2010 17:21:55
How about Orbital support for PI bases. Satellites and upwards.

I also like the idea of support buildings- would you do them as separate pins or 'with in' the existing pins? Or at the most extreme (but possibly coolest) something like simcity/a modular ground POS?

I'd quite like there to be sliders for extractor production as well as for processors, although that would require some balancing thought.

Von ManchIden
Posted - 2010.06.12 13:01:00 - [10]
 

Heres a suggestion and I cant believe that CCP didn't already add this but, what about corps???!?!? No corp access or hangers in customs offices? ?!?! What?!!??! You should also be able to choose whether or not the colonies you create are YOURs or your CORPS so other members can interact with them. At the very least there should be corp hangers at the customs offices....

Big dissapointment for me and my corp...

Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
Posted - 2010.06.12 13:51:00 - [11]
 

I fully agree with the missing corp access.. I thought eve is a game for teams. So we do work together in a team, setting up nice chains in our corp and then somebody is in holiday for 2 weeks, 1 pc is broken for some days and 1 mate is in hospital.. and all the chains of our corp are screwed.
And there is no way to get out of this problem, because corp has no access to the planets.

So why not allow corp members to help out in case somebody cant refresh or take care for his chains ?

And the whole corp projects stops because one item is missing.

Dasiusjr
Posted - 2010.06.12 14:48:00 - [12]
 

I like the limits with CPU and PG but also like the idea of support buildings to improve them, would have to be a limit though or you would end up sucking a planet dry and flooding the market.

Someone mentioned the industry screen showing more information on cycle times and how full storage is ect which would be a great help, having to manually go and check every thing is kinda time consuming and considering you can get this information for other forms of industry, it isn't consistent.

How about being able to group mines so that they can be set as one mine, the downside is they only mine as much as the worst member of the group gets that survey? Always have to have a downside. Also how about a repeat all button? You still have to go there so it's not turn on and go on holiday and free ISK, just leaves more time for blowing things up.

Ritzenhoff
Gallente
Ritzenhoff Industrial Design
Posted - 2010.06.12 15:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Uma Shakti
Edited by: Uma Shakti on 11/06/2010 13:50:56
1. Slider controls. Please allow the rate of manufacturing to be controlled at the factory. Probably the most straightforward way is to include a slider that can be adjusted between 0 and 100%. Optionally, you might include a feature that 'overheats' the factory but results in future down-time? In any case, the point of this is to allow players to fine-tune the rates remotely and fidget with how their industrial operations are moving along. It adds realism and it allows for a much more satisfying outcome.

2. Upgrades. Please allow us to upgrade both the command centres and the various other buildings locally. This might even cost resources in addition to isk. That's fine. But having to destroy 5 fully functioning production chains a few times is discouraging and pointless. Take inspiration from Ikariam in this respect.

3. Connectivity. Our colonies should interact with other colonies (and not just via proxy wars). Also, the solar systems should be allowed to develop some sort of local identity. For this reason, please let the space-ports transport in-system and between players without tedious hauling or 1-time contract trading. I don't want to spend the rest of my Eve life running back to my 'home' system to micro-manage every few hours. Nothing kills the spirit of exploration like a tether.

4. Limit utilitarianism. There is absolutely no reason why the buildings we put up in on our planets must all be utilitarian in nature. I'd be happy to buy entertainment complexes, gardens, office buildings, residential facilities (of various architectural types) and so on. If some of these have some small bonuses to production attached, so be it. If they just look pretty and make my planetary cities more interesting, that's fine too. Not everything needs to translate into isk/second.

5. Free the market. Speaking of isk/second though, can you please stop propping up the market on advanced commodities? We can now produce them at a rate of (at least) 2 per day. There's really no reason why there should be an NPC sell order in Jitta for 2000 nano-factories at 0.49M each. As long as orders like that exist, producers will hang on to their goods. Please let the market spike and settle soon.



1. Don't see why you would need this if you use storage as a buffer.
2. Yes please! Likewise I don't mind if there is some kind of penalty, I'd gladly pay it to avoid the pointless hassle of taking everything down, putting it all back up again...
3. Yes please! Although maybe limited to corp, if corp PI is allowed? I think these links should also eat up PG/CPU, so there remains a benefit to hauling it "manually"
4. Maybe, pretty low priority though.
5. This is already happening, seemed to start today

Others ideas;

6. Group Extractors - WHY do I have to click on each of them individually? Could easily work like grouping weapons. Pointless click-fest is pointless.
7. Corp PI, please!

HairySack Hangin
Posted - 2010.06.13 02:43:00 - [14]
 

Go bark it up in the Assembly Hall, not as if they pay any attention but.. meh...

Someone's got a thread going already.

Ikserak tai
Posted - 2010.06.13 04:59:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Harrent
Edited by: Harrent on 12/06/2010 04:44:01
Exclamation When entering "planet mode" minimize all open windows. After all, i cant do anything with them once in PI now can i? Wink

Can't agree with this one, I like being able to manage my colonies while flying to places with the overview open.

Exclamation let me Survey with all extractors at once while holding CTRL. I hate having to survey 20 times PER COLONY every 5 HOURS, 23 or 96 HOURS! (repetative?) Evil or Very Mad

Completely agree!

Idea Optional Mail (EVEGATE) notifcation (mail) when certain storage is at 50% / 75% maximum. (this way i know which colonies to check / unload first)

Meh. This doesn't happen with manufacturing and invention, so why PI?

Idea Extractors not doing anything flash red? (optional?) I really hate coming back and finding that i forgot to start one Shocked

Definitely would be a plus....

Idea Planet Management skills - Power grid savings, CPU savings, etc... (similar to those done for ships, WU / AWU / etc... )

Or have purchasable substation improvements to increase PG/CPU. Right now the colonies cannot expand beyond CC limits, which is hardly realistic or encouraging to the PI concept.

Idea Option to work with other people on your planet to create advanced products.

Yeah, planetary markets would be a plus...

---=Legend=-----
Exclamation Urgent Suggestion
Idea = Idea
---========-----





Gumdrop
Posted - 2010.06.13 09:57:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Harrent
Edited by: Harrent on 12/06/2010 04:44:01
Exclamation When entering "planet mode" minimize all open windows. After all, i cant do anything with them once in PI now can i? Wink

Exclamation let me Survey with all extractors at once while holding CTRL. I hate having to survey 20 times PER COLONY every 5 HOURS, 23 or 96 HOURS! (repetative?) Evil or Very Mad

Idea Optional Mail (EVEGATE) notifcation (mail) when certain storage is at 50% / 75% maximum. (this way i know which colonies to check / unload first)

Idea Extractors not doing anything flash red? (optional?) I really hate coming back and finding that i forgot to start one Shocked

Idea Planet Management skills - Power grid savings, CPU savings, etc... (similar to those done for ships, WU / AWU / etc... )

Idea Option to work with other people on your planet to create advanced products.

---=Legend=-----
Exclamation Urgent Suggestion
Idea = Idea
---========-----






this

Uma Shakti
Posted - 2010.06.13 13:46:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Uma Shakti on 13/06/2010 13:46:36
Originally by: Harrent
Edited by: Harrent on 12/06/2010 04:44:01
Exclamation When entering "planet mode" minimize all open windows.


Please don't make the window minimization automatic, except perhaps in the case of the first, large window containing the planet list. Those of us in low- and null-sec and those located in w-space need to pay very close attention to local while messing with our planets.

On the other hand, if the cloaking/uncloaking could be made easier while in planet mode, that would be nice. (I know about hot-keys but I'm on a laptop and those don't work well for me.)

My 2 cents' worth.

TLWE
Polish Lords' Confederacy
Posted - 2010.06.13 13:57:00 - [18]
 

I have one suggestion of improvement. One that many should agree with me.

ALT-click to select all extractors linked in route to the same destination. Then mass scan on them all for resource, but single select of cycle. Then confirm on left to get them work.

Anyone who think this is a bad idea? Smile

Esescama Agent
Posted - 2010.06.13 16:59:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Esescama Agent on 13/06/2010 16:59:16
Originally by: Gumdrop
Originally by: Harrent
Edited by: Harrent on 12/06/2010 04:44:01
Exclamation When entering "planet mode" minimize all open windows. After all, i cant do anything with them once in PI now can i? Wink

Exclamation let me Survey with all extractors at once while holding CTRL. I hate having to survey 20 times PER COLONY every 5 HOURS, 23 or 96 HOURS! (repetative?) Evil or Very Mad

Idea Optional Mail (EVEGATE) notifcation (mail) when certain storage is at 50% / 75% maximum. (this way i know which colonies to check / unload first)

Idea Extractors not doing anything flash red? (optional?) I really hate coming back and finding that i forgot to start one Shocked

Idea Planet Management skills - Power grid savings, CPU savings, etc... (similar to those done for ships, WU / AWU / etc... )

Idea Option to work with other people on your planet to create advanced products.

---=Legend=-----
Exclamation Urgent Suggestion
Idea = Idea
---========-----






this


Very good suggestions, I miss the 12h extractor schedule for ppl who has to work. 5 hrs is to short, 24h to long :(

Marchocias
Posted - 2010.06.13 18:26:00 - [20]
 

Instead of scanning for 4 different set lengths of deposist, it would be MUCH better if we could set a time anywhere between 30 mins and 96 hours, with a nice efficiency curve between them (so we can have the most appropriate efficiency to how WE play the game, rather than 4 categories of how CCP think we ought to).

If I go to bed, and get up 8 hours later, the 5 hours schedule is too short but the 23 hours is WAY too long.

--

I also agree that we DEFINATELY need a way of grouping the scanning for multiple extractors together. Its just dumb otherwise. (I'd be embarrassed to show off this part of the game to my mates, as they'd laugh at me for all the pointless clicking I have to do).

Vasundhara
Posted - 2010.06.14 05:49:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: TLWE
I have one suggestion of improvement. One that many should agree with me.

ALT-click to select all extractors linked in route to the same destination. Then mass scan on them all for resource, but single select of cycle. Then confirm on left to get them work.

Anyone who think this is a bad idea? Smile


I don't care how they do it, any form of bulk-management of extractors would be a welcome improvement. Honestly though I feel like this is deliberate by CCP to try to make PI somewhat burdensome and keep it from being too automated. My take is that it is a weak way to add depth and balance to a profession by just making some aspect of it onerous.

To be fair, I think they've done a good job with the bulk of it. I'm content to see things stabilize before they make any major feature changes. For now, some minor ease of use changes would be sufficient.

Sane Sawyer
Posted - 2010.06.14 05:53:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Ritzenhoff
6. Group Extractors - WHY do I have to click on each of them individually? Could easily work like grouping weapons. Pointless click-fest is pointless.


Uma Shakti
Posted - 2010.06.14 13:55:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Vasundhara
[A]ny form of bulk-management of extractors would be a welcome improvement. Honestly though I feel like this is deliberate by CCP to try to make PI somewhat burdensome and keep it from being too automated. My take is that it is a weak way to add depth and balance to a profession by just making some aspect of it onerous.


qft

I suspect that the extractor clickfest + gradually shifting resource concentrations will make scripting bots to carry out meaningful PI a bit of a nightmare. That's probably a lesson CCP learned from their experience with mining.

Here's the silver lining: if there are few bots in the profession and if the impatient abandon the field in frustration after a week or two, PI commodity prices should stay up. Cool

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2010.06.14 17:10:00 - [24]
 

It would also be nice to be able to stop a cycle in progress.

regandeddie
I WAS IN MADIC
Posted - 2010.06.14 18:16:00 - [25]
 

it would be nice if ice planets didn't hurt my eyes with their icy brightness

jk scowling
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2010.06.14 19:16:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Aphrodite Skripalle
I fully agree with the missing corp access.. I thought eve is a game for teams. So we do work together in a team, setting up nice chains in our corp and then somebody is in holiday for 2 weeks, 1 pc is broken for some days and 1 mate is in hospital.. and all the chains of our corp are screwed.
And there is no way to get out of this problem, because corp has no access to the planets.

So why not allow corp members to help out in case somebody cant refresh or take care for his chains ?

And the whole corp projects stops because one item is missing.


I can understand why they have kept corps out of it though, it's designed to be passive income for players, in 0.0 it would no doubt be comandeered for Alliance/corp income much like moon mining is now.

golan kasos
Posted - 2010.06.14 22:53:00 - [27]
 

make the custom office station smaller. it is really annoying to get bumped 30km away from the station or get stuck when you want to warp.

Leaping Tiger
Posted - 2010.06.15 00:23:00 - [28]
 

What I don't understand is why CCP made the decision to dump product that wasn't routed at the time of process completion. The processor should shut down until a route is applied. The only time this would make a difference is when the extractors weren't keeping up with the processors. In that case, you'd want to keep the product, not dump it and use up more raw materials. (If the extractors WERE keeping up with the extractors then you've probably got extra raw materials anyway.)

It'd be nice to be able to unload a processor and switch schematics without dumping it's storage. To switch schematics without wasting anything takes two hours of vigilance without very much payback. Is the game supposed to be intentionally frustrating?

It'd also be nice if the forums worked right.

Aleis
Minmatar
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
Posted - 2010.06.16 12:48:00 - [29]
 

Mass selection of extractors is key as has been said.

Also it would be nice if i could resize the window of the PIN i've selected. Some times the Routes of a single PIN can be extensive and if i'm trying to manage them it'd be nice to see everything at once.

Add more options to the right click on a PIN, instead of just show info and create link. Have survey added to extractors, schematic added to processors and so on.





 

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