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Dreed Roberts
Posted - 2010.06.10 00:28:00 - [1]
 

Proper Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance.

I am writing here because some (hopefully) misguided (and not just malicious and uncaring)GM said if I was unhappy about the way they handled my petition I should post here.
Ho Ho Ho.

I am referring to the "breaking" of reprocessed P4 items obtained from NPC starbase structures. I filed a petition to get an appropriate reimbursement and got a big fat no. OK that is fair enough, it is what I expected after all. We all know the GMs can't/won't do anything to actually help a player.

What has annoyed me about this whole thing is the way CCP has acted throughout the whole affair.

It is a bug, not an exploit. So then then take arbitrary steps, without any warning in terms of announcements/patch notes/dev bolgs and arbitrarily wipe out >90% of the resources that anyone had placed in this.

What is more I am not just talking about a nerf of something they actually went into peoples accounts and removed resources and replaced them with resources of a much lesser value; WITH NO WARNING!
[the PvP equivalent would be replacing every Alliance tournament HAC or Assault frigate with the equivalent T1 meta 0 ship]

Frankly I am disgusted with the way this has been handled. Please may someone else develop a decent space based MMO some market competition would be good right now.

The issues are simple, PI problems were pointed out on Sisi CCP ignores them, players use the mechanics in front of them on Tranquility CCP Devs have a fit and go round deleting peoples money.

Well now that this is thrown into the gaping hole that the forums are in terms of Dev attention, there is SFA I can do about this. So on with the rest of my EVE. But if you feel similarly please add you views, perhaps we might get an apology. Ho, Ho, Ho.



Please do not go around the profanity filter - Adida

Teinyhr
Minmatar
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
Posted - 2010.06.10 00:38:00 - [2]
 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

....Can't.. Breathe....


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



...okay.. Okay.. I'm done

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHHHGgngngngng...

Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
Posted - 2010.06.10 00:46:00 - [3]
 

Somehow I don't think this is going to have the effect you intended.

Also, hahahahahahaha. That is all.

Ti'anla
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.10 00:49:00 - [4]
 

...
Pff... ><

Silero
Posted - 2010.06.10 00:51:00 - [5]
 

/laughs at Akita T alt

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Darkwolf
Caldari
TOG Empire
Combat Mining and Logistics
Posted - 2010.06.10 00:53:00 - [6]
 

Owned.

Taking advantage of a bug for your benefit is the very definition of an exploit.

There was plenty of warning as well. It was pasted all over the forums here that all P4 items would get broken come the patch.


Dreed Roberts
Posted - 2010.06.10 00:58:00 - [7]
 

Nah frankly I don't/didn't expect a whole lot of sympathy.

But in answer to your points, what I was trying to achieve was to demonstrate what a complete waste of time it is to post any grievances you have with the CCP development process. As anything you do post gets a) flamed b) ignored.

I was ****ed off with the GM suggesting that this is a better way of resolving things than the petition system, which really goes to show how messed up the petition system truly is.




Velcro fly
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.06.10 01:10:00 - [8]
 

for a start, Akita T alt, i think not

Akita T has done nothing but highlight problems and point out floors in game economic mechanics. and Akita comes across as wise enough not to plough a large portion of his/her significant capital into such a floored investment. I may not agree with his/her approach but i respect the effort Akita puts in to publicizing the economic mechanics of the game


I have been playing this game since year 1, and the most important thing that i have learnt is to be conservative with your investments. market speculation is fine, but if you follow the masses then you will get burnt eventually.

now OP, do you really expect not to get flamed when you jump onto the forum and say "I saw a chance to be uber greedy and exploit an unintended oppertunity, and now i got burnt". You might as well jump into a hauler, fill it with shiney things and fly it out to null sec. You will still need the Whambulance.

For all you other fledgling capitalists out there, there is a very good phrase that you should write down and read everytime an oppertunity like "free isk" comes along

"if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is"





Zenst
Hall Of Flame
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2010.06.10 01:55:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Zenst on 10/06/2010 01:56:59
Originally by: Dreed Roberts
Proper Planning Prevents P!ss Poor Performance.

<SNIP>




Yeah that is known as the 5P rule and ****-poor is hyphenated, hence when you say it people go but thats 6P's not 5 and you go well ****-poor is hyphenated -- as such proving the point about planning Smile I also know it as "Perfect Preparation Prevents ****-Poor Performance" .

Rothrin
Posted - 2010.06.10 02:04:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Rothrin on 10/06/2010 02:06:41
Nope the op was right, for non miltery use its the 6p's for miltery its 7 p's,the first p being prior, and it stems from the British army. The 5p's miss the mild swear word out.(as i discoverd after this post.

sue denim
Posted - 2010.06.10 02:28:00 - [11]
 

there's still an issue of taking cheap npc goods off the market and reacting them into more valuable components, some of which the npcs will even buy back giving u free isk :|

Jobby
Minmatar
PURPLE.
Posted - 2010.06.10 02:42:00 - [12]
 

ibtl

RazorDreamz
Caldari
Chaotic dynamics
Posted - 2010.06.10 02:51:00 - [13]
 

You took a chance on an exploit and lost your money... where exactly is the story here.

Dreed Roberts
Posted - 2010.06.10 03:16:00 - [14]
 

I took a chance on a bug.
It was specifically stated to be a bug not an exploit.

My gripe and issue here is on the heavy handed manner and lack of clear communication and transperancy in which this problem was "solved".

Had there been a warning in a dev blog or announcement that this bug was going to be squashed in this manner then fair enough. I guess my problem is that this was not just a squashing of a bug (refineable POS structures) but retribution was also taken against those who may have profited from something that was available to all.

Meh be that as it may, zee post is not about me getting done over by this but the way CCP interacts with its customers.
Poorly.
Especially as pointed out above this bug still exists with NPC seeded intermediate PI goo.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.06.10 03:27:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Myxx on 10/06/2010 03:28:28
Originally by: Teinyhr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

....Can't.. Breathe....


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



...okay.. Okay.. I'm done

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHHHGgngngngng...


also

you were warned


Balsak
Minmatar
Friends of Bigfoot
Posted - 2010.06.10 03:36:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Dreed Roberts
I took a chance on a bug.
It was specifically stated to be a bug not an exploit.

My gripe and issue here is on the heavy handed manner and lack of clear communication and transperancy in which this problem was "solved".

Had there been a warning in a dev blog or announcement that this bug was going to be squashed in this manner then fair enough. I guess my problem is that this was not just a squashing of a bug (refineable POS structures) but retribution was also taken against those who may have profited from something that was available to all.

Meh be that as it may, zee post is not about me getting done over by this but the way CCP interacts with its customers.
Poorly.
Especially as pointed out above this bug still exists with NPC seeded intermediate PI goo.


It was a bug. You knew it was a bug and therefore knew it was going to be fixed fairly soon after it was known about. CCP made a post in the the giant thread about this bug warning players that they shouldn't invest more money into it.

You gambled and you lost and now you make yourself look foolish by posting about it here. I love how you try and paint CCP as the bad guys here when in fact you thought you were being clever but your plan backfired. Suck it up and move on. Think yourself lucky it wasn't considered an exploit and bannable.

Zartrader
Posted - 2010.06.10 04:12:00 - [17]
 

Op reminds me of someone who steals a TV then complains to the owner when it don't work. When the owner says 'get lost' he gets all self righteous about it. Classic.

Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
Posted - 2010.06.10 04:27:00 - [18]
 

I think the GM in question told you to post here because they can't insult you, but they know the players can and will.

Quote:
It is a bug, not an exploit.


You exploited a bug.

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.06.10 04:28:00 - [19]
 

Op need to HTFURolling Eyes

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.06.10 05:00:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Dreed Roberts
As anything you do post gets a) flamed b) ignored.

Actually in this case that is the appropriate response.

Also, I laugh at your massive failure hahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha.

Dreed Roberts
Posted - 2010.06.10 05:50:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Myxx
Edited by: Myxx on 10/06/2010 03:28:28
Originally by: Teinyhr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

....Can't.. Breathe....


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



...okay.. Okay.. I'm done

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHHHGgngngngng...


also

you were warned



Firstly that "warning" contained exactly zero information.
Secondly I had already reprocessed prior to reading that "warning", and I invested nothing more into it.

My point is not that I got owned, I got owned....fine. Can we move past that please?

My point is that this was another bit of blaming and punishing players for doing something that was within the rules at the time for damaging a market because CCP failed to properly prepare for this expansion.

And that this punishment is not being carried out across the board as right now there are people who are buying NPC intermediate planet goo and using that NPC goo to make more advanced planet stuff then selling it back to the NPCs for a profit. Which is within the rules right now.

RootEmerger
Posted - 2010.06.10 06:23:00 - [22]
 

When one reach the bottom some has the sense to stop there and dont make an *** of themselves - other get out their showel and dig down....
Looks like you'r renting deep booring equipement from BP.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.06.10 07:34:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 10/06/2010 07:35:10
CCP did state that it is NOT an exploit, but they also stated that they would be fixing this, and you shouldn't invest into it.

When you take advantage of a bug, you are taking a risk.

Quote:
Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.06.10 07:36:00 - [24]
 

What precisely did they do? It's not as funny without details.

Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.10 07:43:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Myxx
Edited by: Myxx on 10/06/2010 03:28:28
Originally by: Teinyhr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

....Can't.. Breathe....


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



...okay.. Okay.. I'm done

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAHHHGgngngngng...


also

you were warned




Originally by: JitaBum
Edited by: JitaBum on 28/05/2010 14:53:21
oh sht

'epic lols' incoming


And lols were delivered as promised Laughing

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2010.06.10 08:20:00 - [26]
 

I don't think it was a bug. And I don't believe the devs who say that it was a bug. That is just a cheap way to wiggle out of the mess the created. They did it INTENTIONALLY. And they FAILED. Instead of admitting that they did a mistake in their planning, they just said it was a bug. Poor, very poor.

Now, why do I believe that it was intention and not a bug?

Two things:

1) If you reprocessed the items, you didn't get the capital construction parts even though they are noted on the blueprint. That is not the default behaviour and this means that the devs DID think about people reprocessing those items. And they took steps that reprocessing wouldn't be used to abuse the system. It didn't slip them at all, they thought about it and did all those things which they thought would be necessary.

2) The blueprints of the items (pos modules, outpost parts etc.) didn't exist before and were all created for tyrannis. All the required materials and numbers there had to been figured out and balanced out with the currently existing prices and projected prices of PI stuff. This means that they did think about how much an item should cost and how many PI items it should yield upon reprocessing or consume upon building. Again, everything they knew already in advance and thought it was fine.


So:

Reprocessing was intended gameplay (they even changed behaviour of standard reprocessing). The amount of items yielded by reprocessing was intended also.

What EXACTLY was the bug? Reprocessing wasn't it because they intended the items to be reprocessed! Was it npc selling price then? No, because they didn't fix this. Was it the amount of PI items you got from specific modules? No, because they didn't fix that either.

So what was the bug?

There was NO bug. Just very poor planning from CCP (despite of many warnings in advance which got ignored).

ParkerJ
Caldari
FISKL GUARDS
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2010.06.10 08:25:00 - [27]
 

Dreed you got it wrong its

Prior preperation and Planning prevents **** Poor Performance


Pj

Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
Posted - 2010.06.10 08:36:00 - [28]
 

So you used a bug to your advantage, and want GMs to help you? Uhm... ugh

Not sure they are cool with exploiting

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2010.06.10 08:47:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Dreed Roberts
It is a bug, not an exploit.

It was a bug you exploited.

Since you're obviously too dumb to have figured this bug out for yourself in the first place and just followed the painting-by-numbers instructions given on here I have to say HTFU.

You missed the boat, the people who had brains got in on this early got out as soon as they realised what CCP was going to do (hint: you could see what was going to happen from SiSi). The clever people sold the product from this bug to people, who then sold that on to others, and so on until it was impossible to retroactively punish the original exploiter without unfairly punishing innocent people in the chain.

The fact you sat on the base resources illegitimately refined from this exploit is noone elses fault but your own. If you sunk billions into this, knowing full well it was unintended behavious, and failed to get out when it was obvious that CCP were going to react, then you don't deserve the spoils.

Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.06.10 08:51:00 - [30]
 

Also, you now own a bunch of uncreatable items. Which over time may become extremely sought after by collectors.


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