open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked CCP grow a pair and get rid of the alts already!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8

Author Topic

Khavi Kitamatsu
Posted - 2010.06.09 19:55:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Fikreta
Well, thanks everyone for your comments. Some are very good and the rest are just proving what I already knew: EVE is soft. Sadly, some of you guys are acting like a bunch of little whining carebears scared even to think about alternative to this fluffy mess we dare to call 'a hardcore MMO game'. It's funny because honestly, all anti-SCS (single character/server) arguments I've seen are basically coming to this one: "it's easier with alts". What an irony.

Yes, I'm aware that CCP is not going to touch our precious easy game mode tickets called alts, ever, so don't be afraid that things might become a little bit rougher and (OMG!) complicated some day - they won't. Alt zergs are bringing them way too much money. Disabling multiaccounting -a bold move which would REALLY make this game what it falsely pretends to be- would also make their Almighty God of Holy Profit angry and that's where this story ultimately ends.

So let us all relax and carry on with our daily carebear routines. Highsec, lowsec, 0.0, it doesn't make any difference.

Just don't forget to fire up another client or two because we want our easy portion of fun and instant gratification which would be oh so much tougher to earn with single character.


So can you explain how having multiple accounts is carebearish? Maybe my brain is malfunctioning. But I would really like to know. Plus...how is any game hardcore? Ummm...it is a game. I mean unless we loose real money like you might do in a game of poker - then how again is this game or any game like this hardcore? Explain hardcore while you are at it please. Thanks.

RazorDreamz
Caldari
Chaotic dynamics
Posted - 2010.06.10 02:59:00 - [122]
 

-1 for obvious troll. No one would that stupid to suggest this.

paracidic
High Venture Team
Red Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.10 03:05:00 - [123]
 

HEY OP.

Put down the pipe and back away slowly.

Fikreta
Posted - 2010.06.10 06:40:00 - [124]
 

A few comments...

Originally by: BrundleMeth
So because you can't afford a second account no one should get one


This thread is about multiaccounting as one of the EVE's specialities, and all negative long term effects it causes. But you, as many others, are clearly missing the point.

Originally by: BrundleMeth
it's just a game ffs


Well remember that next time you call someone a carebear, taste his delicious tears and/or show him a way to ---> /random MMO game here/

Originally by: BrundleMeth
And if you have decided that CCP won't do anything anyway what is the point of your whole moronic drivel???


To check general community opinion? Now calm down will you, no one is going to steal your beloved fluffy little toys... err, alts.

Originally by: Diosas
i think the OP mean, correct me if im wrong to remove alts as in extra chars on one account.


That would be ultimate goal, yes, but removing MCS would be the first and probably the hardest step for both CCP and this playerbase which is, btw, largely so spoiled and whiny I just cannot believe.

Originally by: Tippia
How do you keep people from having alts?


While it's not possible to completely prevent people using this or that trick/hack/proxy/whatever to still run several accounts, there are known methods to control and significantly cut that number down so in the end the vast majority of norm players would not bother/risk. Especially if they are familiar with harsh consequences, which would be in this case - perma ban for all accounts registered and verified as multiples.

Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu
So can you explain how having multiple accounts is carebearish?


Please read OP again. If you're still unable to see why, then I cannot help you with this one. Sorry.

Potato IQ
Posted - 2010.06.10 09:41:00 - [125]
 

Very, very dim bulb

Just one of a number of very good reasons, which has already been mentioned, for having another account is to specialise on a different path. If the SP requirements are completely different yet highly intensive, then I would be missing out on a game element for months if not years

You keep correcting people by referring to your OP. Why as itís a lot of nonsense. Point 1 to 3 are quite disgraceful as itís a blinkered view on how everyone should play this game. I will remind you of the following:

Originally by: from this site ĎAbout Eve Onlineí

However, the level at which each player decides to participate is a matter of personal choice. The game leaves ample room for continual progress and variety in all its solo playing aspects. For those who opt to do so, becoming the best lone-wolf pirate or bounty hunter is a never-ending task as the competitors are other human players who will employ every method at their disposal to gain an edge over the rest. Solo players are also able to hire out their services as mercenaries or hit men to other players or player-run corporations



So who are you to tell anybody how to play this game

I come on these forums to glean information from the experienced players which will improve my play time and enjoyment of the game. Crap like this post is neither constructive or helpful. Please go away

Im Blue
Posted - 2010.06.10 10:01:00 - [126]
 

as a player with 6 accounts(3 pvp'ers spec'd in different races and ships, 2 industry/science guys and 1 future super cap holding guy) and 12 other alts(few for lab works few for cynos few for just eyes) stating that all alts should be removed is infact a very silly idea.

all though this is a mmo, there are times when other players arnt on, dont have the skills or the ability to help even when they are on. if i have to move my own caps about i have no choice but to use my own cyno alts. sometimes i need upto 5 just to get from one place to another. expecting orther players to be there each and everytime is just not workible.

i dont pay for my accounts with cash, i make most of my isk from my alts without much effort. no eve job for me in that regard.

why do i have 6 accounts, well i do love playing in eve(i have many issues with ccp but i still love eve) i like being able to play every part of the game without trying to do everything on just 1 account.

would i leave game if i had to play with just 1 guy? probibly not, would i enjoy eve as much? probibly not as i would miss out on much it has to offer.

you play your way, ill play mine

Blue

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.06.10 10:12:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Fikreta
Originally by: Tippia
How do you keep people from having alts?
While it's not possible to completely prevent people using this or that trick/hack/proxy/whatever to still run several accounts, there are known methods to control and significantly cut that number down so in the end the vast majority of norm players would not bother/risk. Especially if they are familiar with harsh consequences, which would be in this case - perma ban for all accounts registered and verified as multiples.
Would you care to elaborate, and especially point out how these methods don't yield false positives?

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2010.06.10 11:07:00 - [128]
 

Two reasons for multiple accounts.

GM account + non GM account
Spies in enemies corporation / alliance

How are we supposed to Meta game without information?

If you are serious about removing Alts one must logically say you are affirming the desire to have monthlysubs trippled and removal of plexes.

This would be acceptable financially to ccp of they can force us all into a 2 year contract

So you would sign that contract op?

Personally I wouldn't. I love that Eve subs

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.10 11:28:00 - [129]
 

"Whaaaa"

Great contribution Fikreta.

BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2010.06.10 11:57:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: BrundleMeth on 10/06/2010 11:58:02
Originally by: Hon Dao
There's no real difference between buying a premade character to get skill points quicker, or buying a second account on which to gain a second set of skillpoints. However, I don't see anyone complaining about PLEX and character trading.

And as for the cost? No, running several accounts in an MMO is not a particularly expensive hobby. I've had to give up others that I spent less time on, because they were outside the confines of my budget, and yet I can multibox 5 wow accounts, and have just started EVE with 2.

I too only added a second account when I discovered the limitation of a single skill queue per account. I don't want to be limited to training just one specialisation for the first few months, when that is the time I really wnat to be exploring my options in the game.


I don't see any reason (just a lot of ignorant prejudice), as to why dedicating more time, money and effort to an MMO video game should be considered any different from doing the same in any other hobby. It's entertainment. It doesn't provide any real benefit to society because it's a frivolous time sink. So how is it that MMOs are any different from having a greater interest in, for example, going to the cinema? Some people go occasionally, others have season tickets (add in the costs of transport, and food and drink, and even something as everyday as that is probably more costly than multiboxing an MMO).

Then we come onto those who go so far as to say any over average interest in an MMO is actually addiction. I could say there are more people 'addicted' to watching TV, supporting a sports team, cycling, or horseriding than there are to MMOs. The MMO players only spend more time doing it (than everyone except the TV watcher), because sitting down at a computer in your own home, is more convenient. Especially considering all the other things you can do on the computer, while playing an MMO.

What I choose to do with my free time is of no concern to anyone, no matter how much they may think they have a right, to dictate what others should do.

You sir are exactly right. We should be friends... (And I play EVE while watching TV so I must really be addicted)...

BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2010.06.10 12:05:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: BrundleMeth on 10/06/2010 12:07:10
Originally by: Fikreta
A few comments...

Originally by: BrundleMeth
So because you can't afford a second account no one should get one


This thread is about multiaccounting as one of the EVE's specialities, and all negative long term effects it causes. But you, as many others, are clearly missing the point.

No I got the point. But your complaint is clearly like so many other complaints in life. It just masks the fact you are broke so have to rationalize SOME reason why others shouldn't get to do something that YOU can't afford. Like the moron who tells me I shouldn't drive a Corvette because his 74 Toyota can get him to the grocery store just fine...

Originally by: BrundleMeth
it's just a game ffs


Well remember that next time you call someone a carebear, taste his delicious tears and/or show him a way to ---> /random MMO game here/
I have NEVER called anyone a carebear. I think it's a stupid term, and I never direct anyone to any other MMO. I don't really know any other MMO's. And the only tears I taste are my own cause I can't fight worth crap lol

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.10 12:08:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Fikreta
Originally by: BrundleMeth
it's just a game ffs


Well remember that next time you call someone a carebear, taste his delicious tears and/or show him a way to ---> /random MMO game here/
Very well said. QFT.

You're touching on the hypocrisy that exists among some of the most prevalent "hardcore" players of the game. I'd dare say most of the idiots that spout "HTFU" and "cry some moar, carebear" bring their own risks down and close to zero with the use of alts.


Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
Posted - 2010.06.10 13:02:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
.. the hypocrisy that exists among some of the most prevalent "hardcore" players of the game. I'd dare say most of the idiots that spout "HTFU" and "cry some moar, carebear" bring their own risks down and close to zero with the use of alts.


And of course the only "real hardcore" is permadeath.
I'd like to see their faces when it happens to them! Wink

S Pada
Posted - 2010.06.10 13:29:00 - [134]
 

i do believe that alts wreck the game as well, as it dose not give you that alternate personality as that the hole reason for mmo's to live a alternate life, but ccp works of a money system if it would make them more money that would do it, why you think they stopped ghost training for, now you need to have a 2nd account to train for your Indy or pvp toon as it takes so long to train in this game it is wise to have a alt. why you think they allow neutral remote repairs. The only way you could ever get ccp to change any think is to stop paying your accounts for 3 months until they change some thing, have a strike till ccp actually listens to the players, but as Ive seen so far they dont care as long as the $$$ are going in to there pocket, look at there match fixing in the alliance tournament, look at eve poker thats a 3rd party program that they have allowed because the owner used to be a gm. but hey im just one voice

Rainb0w bright
Posted - 2010.06.10 13:38:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Shawshanke
Originally by: GoGo Rens
Why would you waste so much time posting about something that will never change.
Obviously ccp are not going to suddenly wipe out 50% of their income by banning half the accounts that people pay for and therefore their income.. Not including all the others who would then quit their main character as well.


you dont have to ban any of the accounts just do what they do with trial account no multiboxing,

ihcn
Posted - 2010.06.10 13:41:00 - [136]
 

Wormhole space is boring. The only way one could possibly live in wspace without being burned right out of the game altogether, is to have non-wspace alts.

polly pritypants
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.10 13:52:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: polly pritypants on 10/06/2010 13:55:10
nullEdited by: polly pritypants on 10/06/2010 13:54:16
well yer i thought the hole reason for mmo's was to interact with other people, if you want to go around mining in a 5 man fleet or pvping with a neutral rr, fill a corp coz the ceo haz got a personalty of a a door nob or alts around hubs coz you cant be bothered jumping around in a space ship in a space game , yous may as well sit at watch a move and play with your self at home.

we can tell who has rl mates :D

boxing

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2010.06.10 13:53:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: S Pada
i do believe that alts wreck the game as well, as it dose not give you that alternate personality as that the hole reason for mmo's to live a alternate life


no no no!... not everyone is into RP, besides i've never even seen the character i'm playing in eve, do you really believe someone wants to play an alternate personality that is a space ship?

Rainb0w bright
Posted - 2010.06.10 14:10:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Rainb0w bright on 10/06/2010 14:11:22
Originally by: dexington

no no no!... not everyone is into RP, besides i've never even seen the character i'm playing in eve, do you really believe someone wants to play an alternate personality that is a space ship?


umm thats is not really Rp its your alt person your digilife as you will why you think wow sucks now coz people are multiboxing to much on there as in they guys/girl link above

so why do you play this game for then

Savatar Mei
Posted - 2010.06.10 14:13:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Illwill Bill
Dear OP,

Please HTFU.

I have just decided to create a new account. I previously trained two other characters and transferred them to the same account as my main is on.
The new account will be used not only to give me additional income to fund my pirating in low-sec, it will also give me an opportunity to infiltrate other corporations, thus increasing the griefing potential.

That is all.


sounds like that noob over at aggressive tendencies

that'll do pig.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2010.06.10 14:20:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Dez Affinity
Alts are not a complete replacement of real players. Any multiboxer will tell you that running even 2 accounts at once makes them play much worse on both accounts than if they were playing on just one.


Indeed - i always count my falcon alt as Half a falcon, when eyeing up possible fights and odds of success

SKUNK

Lady Ayeipsia
Posted - 2010.06.10 15:18:00 - [142]
 

OK... I'm a little confused here...

Is the OP requesting the removal of all Alternate accounts/characters... meaning we each would get only 1 character, that's it?

If so... what happens if you reach a state of Chiriba or the like? You've been playing for 7 years and have done it all and then some. Should not such a person be allowed to create a new character to experience all the changes since their character started so long ago? I mean it would be cruel to say you have to delete the older character just so you can say you had experienced the new tutorials, the character creation process, and how you now plan a character with the training bonus replacing the old assigned skills method.

Or is the OP only complaining about running multiple accounts at the same time? For example, when someone has one account working as an active scout, alt-tabbing or running dual monitors, while also piloting their combat character?

Hon Dao
Posted - 2010.06.10 15:44:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Hon Dao on 10/06/2010 15:49:15
Originally by: Rainb0w bright
you dont have to ban any of the accounts just do what they do with trial account no multiboxing


There is no restriction on multiboxing with trials. At least one that can't be circumvented by using another computer, or a VM (or any one of a number of methods, should they rather stupidly restrict it to one log in per IP, which as a consequence would also stop 2 or more people playing over the same connection).

The problem here is that people who have no understanding of the technology behind it, think it's oh so easy to stop multiboxing. Those who do understand, know that that is most certainly not the case. That would include the game's developers.


Originally by: polly pritypants
well yer i thought the hole reason for mmo's was to interact with other people


Other than the whole fantasy/not real thing, the only difference between real life and an MMO game is the O. There is no obligation to go and do anything with people in real life just because they happen to be there, so why should I suddenly have to do stuff with a bunch of people, just because I'm doing it online? In fact online people have pretty much proven themselves to be a bigger bunch of a-holes than people you meet in real life. Playing with other people in a multiplayer game is an option, not a requirement, and it's a pretty poor assumption to think otherwise.

I'm not going to play this game the same way you do, just because you're incapable of understanding that there are other ways to play it, and because having other people do them, gives you the burden of actually having to acknowledge and think about them instead of continuing in the willful ignorance that you're trying to so hard to protect.

If you don't want to see people doing something different from you, then you are the one doing the wrong thing by playing an MMO.

Khavi Kitamatsu
Posted - 2010.06.10 15:49:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Fikreta


Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu
So can you explain how having multiple accounts is carebearish?


Please read OP again. If you're still unable to see why, then I cannot help you with this one. Sorry.


I am sorry, I read and reread what you wrote and do not see why it is easy mode.

Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2010.06.10 16:01:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Fikreta
1) EVE is MMO game, right? As such, it should promote interaction and cooperation between players
Um, no. Eve is an MMO and, as such, there are multiple people playing on-line. Period. How they play, whether they cooperate, compete on the market or just swarm around in a free-for-all shooting each other in the face is entirely up to them. That's the beauty and the genius of Eve. CCP doesn't try to make us all play to conform to the limited scope of your imagination.

Hon Dao
Posted - 2010.06.10 16:01:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Hon Dao on 10/06/2010 16:06:12
They think it is easy mode, for exactly the same reason they think it would be so easy to stop it.

Because they are completely ignorant of what people like them would actually need to do, in order to achieve it.


Ignorant people should have questions, not opinions.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.10 20:21:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Ekrid
Edited by: Ekrid on 08/06/2010 20:32:38
/signed in favor of OP.

just biomass all alts and give the ISK from the liquidation of skill/train time, total ISK value of character, and other stuff to their choice of main.

here's the problem: if you have alts, you have less need of other people to do things for you, so there is less REAL commerce, and more alt slaving. That makes it actually more difficult for people with only 1 account and 1 character, because they are playing as if they are a part of the eve world, and as such cant compete with randombasementdweller193812 with his 40 yr old neckbeard and 10 alt accounts. The value of this person with a single account and character is immeasurably lessened because of the alt slave.

Think about it. Look at real life world. Slaves were a way to get labor for dirt cheap. The owner of slaves wants to get as much surplus value out of the slaves as possible. But slaves in real life have constant upkeep requirements. Once you get your alt slaves to where you want them in the game, they basically work for free, or another way, the cost to have them per day becomes cheaper the longer they are around and doing work for free for randombasementdweller's main.

This makes labor value exceedingly cheap, therefor any individual with 1 account/character will have the labor value directly relative to all the alt slaves, which is a very low value indeed. That makes the 1 account/character individual less able to make money, less competitive, and less able to gain their own surplus value in terms of their labor.

Thats what makes it a GRIND (!!) for them, while for people paying for multiple accounts, they GRIND (!!) just the same to keep on top with their capitalist function of ISK making.


You fail at logic. My alt costs as much as my main to use every month so in no way is it a "slave".

Fikreta
Posted - 2010.06.10 23:55:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Would you care to elaborate, and especially point out how these methods don't yield false positives?


The best method I can think of would be to remove the incentives for creating multiple accounts.

Ask yourself: do you limit your users in any way? Can those limits be easily overcome by creating multiple accounts? If so, then you're probably doing something wrong: maybe you should think about removing those limits.

Sambo Stone
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.06.11 00:18:00 - [149]
 

I live in the drone regions. My transport/hauler/salvager/loot/freighter alt is at least as important as me.

Ekrid
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2010.06.11 01:19:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Ekrid on 11/06/2010 02:19:30
Originally by: Fikreta
Originally by: Tippia
Would you care to elaborate, and especially point out how these methods don't yield false positives?


The best method I can think of would be to remove the incentives for creating multiple accounts.

Ask yourself: do you limit your users in any way? Can those limits be easily overcome by creating multiple accounts? If so, then you're probably doing something wrong: maybe you should think about removing those limits.


exactly. The game imposes limitations on a single character. Therefor, people buy alts to do other things with. people with alts have no upkeep cost for those alts once they're in their hauler/CNR and doing work to make the main money. That decreases labor value for everyone in eve, particularly people who only have one account.

This doubly impoverishes people who play legitimately, within the spirit of the game, i.e. confined by limitations to what they can and cant do.

a -10 pirate? Subvert the bad things that go with that (no access to highsec) with a hauler alt and make pirating easy carebear style for yourself.

Why would CCP put limitations on a single character, such as training speed, put limitations on a single account, such as only training one character at a time, and then turn around and offer power of two for multiple accounts to get around the very limitations they put in?

I know the answer already, but if anyone else can state it, its time to wake up people, and listen to the person who isn't me who can give the proper answer. them giving proves its not just tinfoiling on my part. tyvm.

Originally by: Cipher Jones


You fail at logic. My alt costs as much as my main to use every month so in no way is it a "slave".



/facepalm for economic understanding challenged.

yeah, so you pay 15$ a month. So your alt costs a few hundred mil to set up a ratting raven or hauler. After that, your alt costs no ISK in game, apart from a very minor missile fee. the longer they keep making ISK and giving it away for free, with incurring almost no cost to themselves, the less they are worth over time, or in another way, the less you have to pay for them over time. If you're running alts to give money to a main, everything from that alt that is surplus labor value goes to your main. Whatever subsistence labor value the alt requires is .0000001 compared to the isk generated from constant ratting or hauling with the alt, which is all given to your main.

If that alt where a main of someone else, they would keep the surplus value to become bigger themselves.

Lets put it this way, the alts must create surplus value for you to consider it worth 15/mo to buy them, otherwise you wouldn't keep them. the fact you as a single person in real life are using 15x the means of a normal players means you're putting 15x the money into the economy via your labor, but you're making each individual character in the game worth 1/15th by giving all that surplus labor value to your main, which in turn makes all characters worth less, so your 15x more on your alt is actually required for you to tread water to keep your total worth equal with the other big worth characters of other players. Those who don't use 15x the means, will always be worth 1/15th the value of those who do. it stand to pure logical reason, I don't see why you can't figure out that this is what puts the newbie and people who don't spend their lives growing neckbeards in basements to play forever at a disadvantage, since they have 1/15th the resources to draw upon to compete with your "main".

your alts are slaves, otherwise you wouldn't keep them.


Originally by: Hon Dao


What I choose to do with my free time is of no concern to anyone, no matter how much they may think they have a right, to dictate what others should do.

go ahead ant tell all the crack smokers and ****** addicts this as well.

Trolling removed. Zymurgist


Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only