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Gentle1
Posted - 2010.05.31 02:18:00 - [1]
 

Hi all,

now it's about 4:30 am here in Germany and I'm really tired so excuse my probably , at times bad english since I can barely keep my eye's open , but still want to post this thread. Now I was just in the eve tyrannis feedback post , were I posted the following message just wanted to to post it in here again , as it seems as if the feedback thread is starting to be forgotten , and is overfilled with 13 pages of feedback anyway.

Now I posted my thoughts as a missioner in this post. Feel free to either disagree or agree , I just hope but posting this in here maybe there will be a big enough outcry to get us heard to

Quote:
Quote:
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Originally by: Lone Provider
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have some feedback


>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I WANT LVL5 MISSIONS BACK IN HI-SEC !!!! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


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ewww......

Do people really run missions? Those are boring!

I'm glad mission profit got wrecked.

I'm no economist, but won't this make the game economy function more realistically?

Thanks CCP!
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Wow , i just have to quote on this.

Now who do you think has the 3-10 Billion isk ships? mission runners. They are the ones who constantly buy on the market , because they are also the ones who fight in alliance wars and therefore need the skills and so on. Now their income has been shot to bits. meaning alot less income , and therefore no more large buyout's on ship equipment in game. If you have not noticed that should be 50% of market cantent= ship equip.
So missionnears will now blitz and stop loot/salvage operations altogther skyrocketing prices for salvage , since no1 will do any salving anymore making slavage goods rare. Ships will not be bought on a "hamster" basis , meaning eatch runner has 25 ships in his bay , because he can or wants to , now it will most likely be on a "need" basis . Either dramaticly increasing/decreaing ship cost , depending on time between purches of ship , in the beginning it will most likeyl be a increase , after that a steap decrease since nobody will be buying ships anymore.
Next part is the missioners can't just change from mission running to going industiral due to Atributes and skills. Most mission runners don't have any industy skills and their attributes are distributed to perception and maybe intelligence to increase the learing speed of combat skills [I for instance have 31.9 Points in Perception and 27.5 Points in intelligence all others are at 22Points (skills x 1.1 for learing , all learning skills at 5)]

Now as you mentioned your not a economist . But I think you see the picture if not ... WOW than you must be blind. This Update did not only increase the wealth of the industrials , it even kicked the other branch in the cr*tch.

I don't think any missioner would have complained if this had been a industrial pure update as log as we don't get scre*ed over . But this is unexceptable.

I hope I stated what most mission runners feel without sounding whiny or agrresive , but Plz ppl who say "I'm so happy i get to exploit a new area cause I'm an industrial , don't know why the others are *****in" look at it from our perspective too.

Sincerly,
Gentle1


if there are any differnt thoughts please post them maybe we can collect them into some big "HEY CCP WE'RE HERE TOO!" thing.
No matter if you agree or not please i would like to hear the thoughts of other mission runners.

Greets to all missioners ,

Gentle1

Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2010.05.31 03:00:00 - [2]
 

So why not do your pve in 0.0 if you are also do pvp there?



August Moondweller
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.31 03:11:00 - [3]
 

HTFU. i cant take this wining from players that spend 2b on a ship just to salvage while they are killing. so much resource spend grinding and you cant understand that the grinding method has changed.

i am a L4 mission runner, i cant fit T2 guns and i have about 5 skills on V, with about 6.2m skill points total, some on trade, others on industry. i fly a baby varg variant, no alts, i can make about ~13m a hour not counting LP items. this nerf did not reached me. today i returned from my last test, i popped a beer and i did 3 missions, all in hisec to hisec. biggest jump: 2 systems, courier mission.

simply put, the problem is only one: Mission Hubs.

everyone wants the perfect agent. everyone wants the utmost reward. everyone wants that L4Q20 agent in that crowded 0.5 system that is filled with ninja salvagers. i dont do mission hubs. i got ninja salvaged ONCE, and he was a incredibly nice person. get off your crowded system with your crowded looters and those silly CEOs that dont understand that NPC corps have dozens of L4Q10+ agents littered everywhere.

you are not the guide, you are guided, stop following Mission Hubs guide and choose your own agent to run.

for ****s sake, HTFU.

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.31 03:29:00 - [4]
 

"HTFU", heh, I like that.

You know, one thing that all spreadsheets have is a bottom line. And it's impersonal, no feeling to it.

EVE being spreadsheets-in-space, give it a bit of time, I'm sure we'll see the results.

Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
Posted - 2010.05.31 05:24:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: August Moondweller
HTFU. i cant take this wining from players that spend 2b on a ship just to salvage while they are killing. so much resource spend grinding and you cant understand that the grinding method has changed.

i am a L4 mission runner, i cant fit T2 guns and i have about 5 skills on V, with about 6.2m skill points total, some on trade, others on industry. i fly a baby varg variant, no alts, i can make about ~13m a hour not counting LP items. this nerf did not reached me. today i returned from my last test, i popped a beer and i did 3 missions, all in hisec to hisec. biggest jump: 2 systems, courier mission.

simply put, the problem is only one: Mission Hubs.

everyone wants the perfect agent. everyone wants the utmost reward. everyone wants that L4Q20 agent in that crowded 0.5 system that is filled with ninja salvagers. i dont do mission hubs. i got ninja salvaged ONCE, and he was a incredibly nice person. get off your crowded system with your crowded looters and those silly CEOs that dont understand that NPC corps have dozens of L4Q10+ agents littered everywhere.

you are not the guide, you are guided, stop following Mission Hubs guide and choose your own agent to run.

for ****s sake, HTFU.




LOL @ the noob with an opinion


golf clap for you

Sideof Fries
Posted - 2010.05.31 05:41:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Sideof Fries on 31/05/2010 05:42:25
Originally by: August Moondweller
HTFU. i cant take this wining from players that spend 2b on a ship just to salvage while they are killing. so much resource spend grinding and you cant understand that the grinding method has changed.

i am a L4 mission runner, i cant fit T2 guns and i have about 5 skills on V, with about 6.2m skill points total, some on trade, others on industry. i fly a baby varg variant, no alts, i can make about ~13m a hour not counting LP items. this nerf did not reached me. today i returned from my last test, i popped a beer and i did 3 missions, all in hisec to hisec. biggest jump: 2 systems, courier mission.

simply put, the problem is only one: Mission Hubs.

everyone wants the perfect agent. everyone wants the utmost reward. everyone wants that L4Q20 agent in that crowded 0.5 system that is filled with ninja salvagers. i dont do mission hubs. i got ninja salvaged ONCE, and he was a incredibly nice person. get off your crowded system with your crowded looters and those silly CEOs that dont understand that NPC corps have dozens of L4Q10+ agents littered everywhere.

you are not the guide, you are guided, stop following Mission Hubs guide and choose your own agent to run.

for ****s sake, HTFU.


As a fairly new mission runner, I completely support this statement. Surprisingly enough, I do not find the game less fun because an invisible statistic has been changed by an invisible amount to do something unclear that may or may not really impact me.

Internet spaceships are fun, calculators are not. People should have more fun.

Gentle1
Posted - 2010.05.31 09:37:00 - [7]
 

HTFU? don't know what that means , but please ppl , let's keep this civil , state your likes or dislikes , but please try not to be offensive to any other players.

TY,
Gentle1

Nick Bete
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.05.31 09:40:00 - [8]
 

I agree with you OP, but this is a lost cause. Whenever the issue of missions comes up it's the same core of vocal PvP bigots who turn up to troll, harass, flame, etc.

At this point I'd say it's time to give up on these forums and voice our opinions to our "elected representatives" (the CSM) and/or make ourselves heard in a more tangible way by voting with our feet and leaving. What the kill the carebears coalition forgets is that Eve isn't RL. Participation in Eve is optional. It's a game that we pay to play. If we're dissatisfied with some aspect of the game we have the option of canceling their subs and leaving.

Rather than be subjected to the narrow-minded trolls and posting anything else regarding the ham-fisted mission nerf on the forums I recommend we make our opinions felt in a more tangible way that CCP will understand unambiguously.

If I go you can't have a damned thing of mine. No risk for you therefore no reward, right?

Tarhim
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.31 11:27:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Nick Bete

At this point I'd say it's time to give up on these forums and voice our opinions to our "elected representatives" (the CSM) and/or make ourselves heard in a more tangible way by voting with our feet and leaving.


But seriously, all this hubbub about what? 5% mission income nerf? You still have all the LP, all the rewards, bounties and salvage.

Also, all solo highsec Lvl 5 mission runners pretty much enjoyed game bug, so no reason to be hurt when it got fixed.

raukosen
Posted - 2010.05.31 11:46:00 - [10]
 

Shot to bits? lol

You can still easily make 40+m/h doing L4s in highsec.
If you're not imaginative to do anything but the most cookie cutter activity in the game then you only have yourself to blame. Stop whining

Arctur Vallfar
Posted - 2010.05.31 11:52:00 - [11]
 

People just love to blow things way out of proportion. There are other ways to make money on top of missioning, you know.

The thing about EVE Online is that it won't hold your hand through everything. Like the reality of our capitalist world, business markets change on a daily basis. Sometimes hourly. There aren't always massive wars or pirates lurking around 3rd world seas for security contractors to make money off of. Once a problem has been taken care of, your business can take a hit.

You should be thankful that EVE has a changing universe. Sometimes the game changes for the better for one person while for another it changes to make things more difficult. It's impossible to make everyone happy. And frankly, this mission nerf has been a fly spatter on my windshield.

You say that people don't have the industrial skills to do anything beyond popping NPC's. Well, guess what. It isn't a chore to buy three or for basic skill books. Seriously, the requirements to build from blueprints, to put some time in with a mining fleet or to construct rigs can be achieved in less than an hour.

Now you say that why should people have to do this if they want to mission. They don't have to at all. If you want to make money in combat, do yourself a favor and join a mercenary corporation. There are plenty of groups that will pay millions to a well sized corporation just to war-dec someone in high-sec.

Bottom line, you have to be creative. When environments change, you must adapt. Honestly I still make 10-40 million isk a day on level 3 missions while I skill up (only 2.4 million SP). You don't need 30+ attribute points to mine a rock for building material or salvage something on the side as a combat captain. I honestly think it's odd that NPC's would pay someone so much cash to kill people who already have such large bounties in the mission area.

Rothrin
Posted - 2010.05.31 12:44:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Gentle1
HTFU? don't know what that means , but please ppl , let's keep this civil , state your likes or dislikes , but please try not to be offensive to any other players.

TY,
Gentle1


It was a saying by an austailan crimal celeberity..Harden the Fxxx Up, i think he will be laughing at the thought of gamers telling over gamers to do it More sence HTFU stop playing games go join the army, as spending to much time on games has the oppisite effect of HTFU.

Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
Posted - 2010.05.31 13:26:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Arctur Vallfar
People just love to blow things way out of proportion. There are other ways to make money on top of missioning, you know.

The thing about EVE Online is that it won't hold your hand through everything. Like the reality of our capitalist world, business markets change on a daily basis. Sometimes hourly. There aren't always massive wars or pirates lurking around 3rd world seas for security contractors to make money off of. Once a problem has been taken care of, your business can take a hit.

You should be thankful that EVE has a changing universe. Sometimes the game changes for the better for one person while for another it changes to make things more difficult. It's impossible to make everyone happy. And frankly, this mission nerf has been a fly spatter on my windshield.

You say that people don't have the industrial skills to do anything beyond popping NPC's. Well, guess what. It isn't a chore to buy three or for basic skill books. Seriously, the requirements to build from blueprints, to put some time in with a mining fleet or to construct rigs can be achieved in less than an hour.

Now you say that why should people have to do this if they want to mission. They don't have to at all. If you want to make money in combat, do yourself a favor and join a mercenary corporation. There are plenty of groups that will pay millions to a well sized corporation just to war-dec someone in high-sec.

Bottom line, you have to be creative. When environments change, you must adapt. Honestly I still make 10-40 million isk a day on level 3 missions while I skill up (only 2.4 million SP). You don't need 30+ attribute points to mine a rock for building material or salvage something on the side as a combat captain. I honestly think it's odd that NPC's would pay someone so much cash to kill people who already have such large bounties in the mission area.



LOL

40M a day eh? Spatter on the windshield?

You are quite clueless, then. When you are making 50-75M per mission, lets talk.

Dante Fitzosborne
Posted - 2010.05.31 13:35:00 - [14]
 

Like all things, this too shall pass. Every change raises cries of, "CCP is destroying my game," or "Why are they trying to force everyone into PvP?" Remember the 11% tax that was supposed to wreck the NPC corps? I know perhaps a handful of people who actually left NPC corps because of it. Remember how sized rigs were supposed to unbalance everything because now every ship would be rigged? Last I saw fleets of rigged Rifters were not laying waste to the EVE universe. Now the mission changes are supposed to destroy the economy and cause a massive emoquit of 95% of the EVE community (that being the percentage who carebear)? Not likely.

Sure the market will bounce around a bit, sure some people will change their missioning habits, but in the end mission runners will continue to run missions, industrialists will continue to make stuff, PvPers will continue to make things go pop, and the sun will rise and set. So it takes a couple more missions to make the same ISK, if that is what you do then it really shouldn't be that big of a deal. Maybe it will encourage some people to explore a little more of what this game has to offer.

I used to be a dedicated mission runner but the more I looked at other people's shiny toys the more I wanted them as well, so I started grabbing skill books and expanding my horizons. So now I can fly every race up to BS, mine pretty well, build my own replacement ships, ammo, and rigs, and have started a corp that is currently living in a Class 2 wormhole. If I had stayed focused I could be in cap ships but I don't think I would be having nearly as much fun.

TL;DR, This change isn't going to have nearly the effect people seem to think it will.

Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
Posted - 2010.05.31 13:43:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Dante Fitzosborne
Like all things, this too shall pass. Every change raises cries of, "CCP is destroying my game," or "Why are they trying to force everyone into PvP?" Remember the 11% tax that was supposed to wreck the NPC corps? I know perhaps a handful of people who actually left NPC corps because of it. Remember how sized rigs were supposed to unbalance everything because now every ship would be rigged? Last I saw fleets of rigged Rifters were not laying waste to the EVE universe. Now the mission changes are supposed to destroy the economy and cause a massive emoquit of 95% of the EVE community (that being the percentage who carebear)? Not likely.

Sure the market will bounce around a bit, sure some people will change their missioning habits, but in the end mission runners will continue to run missions, industrialists will continue to make stuff, PvPers will continue to make things go pop, and the sun will rise and set. So it takes a couple more missions to make the same ISK, if that is what you do then it really shouldn't be that big of a deal. Maybe it will encourage some people to explore a little more of what this game has to offer.

I used to be a dedicated mission runner but the more I looked at other people's shiny toys the more I wanted them as well, so I started grabbing skill books and expanding my horizons. So now I can fly every race up to BS, mine pretty well, build my own replacement ships, ammo, and rigs, and have started a corp that is currently living in a Class 2 wormhole. If I had stayed focused I could be in cap ships but I don't think I would be having nearly as much fun.

TL;DR, This change isn't going to have nearly the effect people seem to think it will.


True, but one thing it will do is this:

Most high sec L5 runners used multiple accounts. More than two.

Those extra accounts, to a large degree (at least to me), are useless now. Many will in fact let those subs expire.

The truth is that this may in fact be a very small number of accounts when all is said and done.


But, the bottom line is the bottom line, and there can be little doubt that a huge portion of the player community is very upset with the providers of one of many recreational activities available to them.

Inquisitor Berthez
Alien Pancake Bonanza
Posted - 2010.05.31 13:44:00 - [16]
 

I would like to see some higher level missions that actually require players to work together without having to go to pirate infested lowsec and getting my ass shot off.

Dante Fitzosborne
Posted - 2010.05.31 13:57:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Noran Ferah
But, the bottom line is the bottom line, and there can be little doubt that a huge portion of the player community is very upset with the providers of one of many recreational activities available to them.


I wouldn't be so sure about that, most of the people I hang out with online have been pretty meh about the changes with a large portion saying they haven't noticed anything at all.

I learned from experience as a beta tester on another game that the forums rarely represent the general mood of the gaming community because they tend to draw the more vocal/reactionary portion of that community. I am amazed at the number of people I run into who don't even know eveonline.com exists much less these forums.

I have run some lvl5s solo (well with my alt) and some with a group of friends and I find the group effort much more enjoyable. In any case did 5s as more of a distraction than as a serious career. Way to much effort, for me at least, to get things going.

Tarhim
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.31 13:57:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Noran Ferah

You are quite clueless, then. When you are making 50-75M per mission, lets talk.


Well, if you are making 50-75M per mission then you are a minmaxing mission farmer. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but I don't see anything wrong within reducing your gain to 45-65M per mission, especially if that will help miners out. You'll just have to adapt.

Goose99
Posted - 2010.05.31 14:12:00 - [19]
 

The amount of changes in this patch is on a different order of magnitude compared to all previous ones. The effect of insurance nerf is far more significant than loot. Coupled with lack of reprocessing from missions, this causes major shifts in the economy over the long term. Carebear mass migration to deep highsec hubs and emptying of lowsec also affects social dynamics in a major way. The effect of something like npc tax isn't even close to this.

Judging by trend, LP values and faction gear prices will increase, deadspace gear will decrease. No one knows where minerial prices will settle with the insurance changes.

All of those are open questions, because they're affected by the community's response to CCP's changes, not just the changes themselves.

For example, corps are beginning to gather and dump useless alts into border lowsec lvl5 agent systems, so they give highsec lvl5s again. This means we won't know where LP prices settle because we won't know how many lvl5 farmers are organized enough to do this.

Highsec minerial prices have dropped due to insurance changes taking away minerial drain on ship autodestruct. Nullsec minerial prices have increased due to lack of mission loot reprocessing. Miners are having a bigger effect. It's unclear how far nullsec sov alliance miners will fill the vacuum on nullsec minerials, and how big of an effect macro miners will have, as their percentage contribution has increased. The future of pvp depends on where it ultimately settles.

Highsec carebear missioners are holding off their purchase of expensive deadspace/officer mods, after hearing about the loot gimp. This, for the moment, only manifested in increasing price gap between buy and sell contracts, as sellers are holding at old price level, which they are able to do for a while because market is small. At some point they'll crack. Timing and amount of compromise of it can determine where it ultimately settles just as much as demand on a market this small.

Due to migration, border lowsecs are getting empty. Pirates will eventually move and find something else to do now that their source of prey dried up. Lowsec dynamics is changing, depending on when/if small-fry anti-pirate alliances move into the formerly busy systems.

The amount of changes on this patch cannot be compared with something like rig and npc corp changes. None are necessarily bad, all are long term, we just don't know yet, because we don't know exactly how the community will respond.

Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
Posted - 2010.05.31 14:39:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tarhim
Originally by: Noran Ferah

You are quite clueless, then. When you are making 50-75M per mission, lets talk.


Well, if you are making 50-75M per mission then you are a minmaxing mission farmer. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but I don't see anything wrong within reducing your gain to 45-65M per mission, especially if that will help miners out. You'll just have to adapt.



It is not yours to decide.

When I mission, ofc I maximize whatever I can to make the most isk. Isn't that the point? Same with pvp. I only have a couple hundred kills, but when I do that I go all out too.

It is all about maximizing the time spent in-game...

Sideof Fries
Posted - 2010.05.31 14:55:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Noran Ferah
Originally by: Tarhim
Originally by: Noran Ferah

You are quite clueless, then. When you are making 50-75M per mission, lets talk.


Well, if you are making 50-75M per mission then you are a minmaxing mission farmer. Nothing inherently wrong with that, but I don't see anything wrong within reducing your gain to 45-65M per mission, especially if that will help miners out. You'll just have to adapt.



It is not yours to decide.




No, it is the devs' to decide, and they did. At the end of the day, CCP has to make everyone happy, it's their job. If your fun is getting in the way of other people's fun, then changes and compromises must be made.

Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
Posted - 2010.05.31 15:00:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Sideof Fries


No, it is the devs' to decide, and they did. At the end of the day, CCP has to make everyone happy, it's their job. If your fun is getting in the way of other people's fun, then changes and compromises must be made.


That is true.

My compromise will be continuing to play, because I like this game, but with a lot less accounts.

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.31 20:19:00 - [23]
 

HTFU means "harden the **** up" (stop crying, be tougher), and it's popular because of this CCP video.

Gentle1
Posted - 2010.05.31 23:50:00 - [24]
 

Well my reason for being a little upset , is that I am a Student , and only have a few hours a week to play EVE , and since I am a stundent you can imagine my income margin = 0. Therefore I pay for the game via PLEX cards. Now i used to make enough for a plex and some more on the side (upgrading my ship) . Now I hope I will be able to make enough to pay for my plex. But I better not loose my ship ohterwise thats endgame for me , since I won't be able to buy a good new ship fast enough to make the next plex.
I relied on salvage , because unlike most Caldari pilots I fly a passive rokh (hybrid) , thats how I started and I continued it that way. So I am not as perfect in flying missions as others are in Caldari space. And therefore also depended on Loot/Salvage.
Hope this makes my personal , specific standpoints more clear . of course I know that I'm only 1 guy , but hey I have to make my voice count too.

Greets,
Gentle1

Lusty Wench
Posted - 2010.06.01 02:27:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Lusty Wench on 01/06/2010 03:56:21
Originally by: Merouk Baas
HTFU means "harden the **** up" (stop crying, be tougher), and it's popular because of this CCP video.


Not even close.

HTFU comes from Ronnie Johns Here
Xmas Poems By Johns

Who is doing a skit of Mark "Chopper" Read, one of Australia's best known crims.

Chopper Interview
Anti Violence against Women

Part of why he's called Chopper
Ears

But he's really called Chopper for his penchant for removing the toes of drug dealers.


 

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