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blankseplocked So why did "widescreen" go the way of "medium shader" again?
 
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Clone 1
Posted - 2010.05.29 19:42:00 - [61]
 

Sample GUI from some forum member in 2007

Linkage

I hold no hope for CCP to improve the GUI. The priority is just not there.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2010.05.29 19:47:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 29/05/2010 19:22:56

All these problems could be solved tomorrow by opening the UI to customization. But of course, that will never happen.


edit:
Quote:
I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.


Way to not read a single post in the thread before throwing in your (worthless) opinion. A lot of people have visual issues - a lot of people have need for assistance with "pixel colour detection."


Thanks for proving my point :)

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.05.29 19:58:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Shintai
I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.


Gosh, your absolutely right! I bet macroers would have a serious problem abusing the overview, local and all mods if they were removed too!

Do or do better without? lol-wutt? You can't be serious. Having that boarder (besides being esthetically pleasing) made *EVERYTHING* pinned there show up better. Mods, targets, everything popped out - which I made use of in every skirmish I've been in for the last 2 years...

Anything pinned against that black backdrop was important... flying now is dam near a squint fest... Crying or Very sad

Look, if that "wide screen" or "letter box" view was so difficult to code, give us an "OPT-IN" feature that gives us some kind of "highlight" background.

I realize you don't like "Opt-in" and increasing UI functionality...

but it would be nice...

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.05.29 19:59:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Shintai
I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.



So you say CCP introduced a feature that had no purpose besides helping macroers?
And now they removed that feature?

Now that's an amazing insight...

NickSuccorso
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.05.29 20:06:00 - [65]
 

Gather 'round, and let me tell you about my life as a colour blind man trying to see the shades of red and green CCP use on the module buttons, and how agonizing it is trying to see those against a backdrop of screaming bright suns and nebulae. Sure was nice when I could have that little black bar perfectly set over my modules so I could see the bastards.

Joe Astor
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2010.05.29 20:13:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Clone 1
Sample GUI from some forum member in 2007

Linkage

I hold no hope for CCP to improve the GUI. The priority is just not there.


Nice! I like the ewar stuff and the drone circle Smile

Mr Waran
Posted - 2010.05.29 20:13:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Mr Waran on 29/05/2010 20:13:42
This was awesome of you CCP for the record.

I am now back to the fine art of GUESSING how much damage there is on my modules.

I suffer from Deuteranopia pretty badly, I can't pick up the level of heat on modules at all now.

You should feel blessed that I am used to doing this so I don't think its a big deal, still really annoying and shouldn't be too hard to fix.

Ars Techinca Explains how Deuteranopia effects gamers


Read that, find understanding and seek a better fix please. You won't because you don't care (obviously) or you would have done so, or you would have been a lot more sympathetic in your responses.

Meanwhile I'll go back to getting yelled at by my corp mates for failing at overheating.

Its fine I'm used to it...

*sigh*

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.05.29 20:20:00 - [68]
 

I agree that it was pretty pointless. It wasn't widescreen at all, it just made it "look" widescreen for those without widescreen monitors (ie: letterbox bars at top and bottom). Why would you want part of your view arbitrarily hidden?

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2010.05.29 20:21:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 29/05/2010 20:26:30
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
It could be that there is an easier way to achieve the same but without using the widescreen.


Make the main view a window itself, or let the sides be dragged inwards to provide whatever aspect ratio is desired. The code already exists in the preview window, doesn't it?


Originally by: Clone 1
Sample GUI from some forum member in 2007

Linkage

I hold no hope for CCP to improve the GUI. The priority is just not there.


Stop showing us all what could be when CCP will never deliver. Crying or Very sad

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2010.05.29 20:53:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 29/05/2010 19:22:56

All these problems could be solved tomorrow by opening the UI to customization. But of course, that will never happen.


edit:
Quote:
I cant see the purpose of the black "widescreen" borders besides for macroers. There is not a single thing etc you cant do or do better without. Well besides macroing with pixel colour detection.


Way to not read a single post in the thread before throwing in your (worthless) opinion. A lot of people have visual issues - a lot of people have need for assistance with "pixel colour detection."


Thanks for proving my point :)


Your point seems to be that you cannot read or process written information very well.

May I suggest enabling widescreen mode?

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.29 21:04:00 - [71]
 

So you're saying you removed the option and you'll fix the UI SoonTM, right?

Right.

You guys are a joke.

Lashnar
Caldari
LEGEND OF THE SHADOW GUARD
Posted - 2010.05.29 22:36:00 - [72]
 

wide screen was useless to me. It chopped off my view. I'm a little color blind in green. But not by much.

But how the heck did wide screen help macros?

iP0D
Posted - 2010.05.29 22:55:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: iP0D on 29/05/2010 22:57:18
Originally by: Terrax Norik
And people wonder why Devs don't post more often on the forums. Rolling Eyes




EVE is a cold and dark place they invented, etc. Truth be told, I can recall days where the Devs themselves outtrolled the players, even boarded CONCORD ships to crack down on players when those went overboard Very Happy

Also, this thread sofar is a nice example of both presenting frustration, emotion as well as suggestions and explanations to the causes, which tie right back to a common theme which has been growing quite worse.

So, that was a pretty silly remark.

Let's be honest for a moment. Everything that has piled up sofar in recent years can be traced right back to segregation, accelerated planning, overload in tasking and the application of Agile to management. How much longer till EVE turns legacy I do wonder.


Originally by: Kyra Felann
I agree that it was pretty pointless. It wasn't widescreen at all, it just made it "look" widescreen for those without widescreen monitors (ie: letterbox bars at top and bottom). Why would you want part of your view arbitrarily hidden?


Because it helps with contrast so people with visual deficiences can still work around - for example - not seeing the colour of Heat status, or the small icons of weapons, etc.


MadMuppet
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.29 22:55:00 - [74]
 

wide screen was useless to me. It chopped off my view. I'm a little color blind in green. But not by much.

But how the heck did wide screen help macros?
Welcome to EVE.


Much like grabbing a yellow can outside a station labelled 'free stuff', the action of discribing a game exploit in here would most likely result in 'bad stuff happening' to the poster.


Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
Posted - 2010.05.29 23:08:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Lashnar
wide screen was useless to me. It chopped off my view. I'm a little color blind in green. But not by much.

But how the heck did wide screen help macros?


I've never used widescreen myself, or indeed macros, but from what I can surmise is that it would allow better pixel/colour recognition.

Eris's comment reminds me of a conversation I had with my manager the other day. I am basically a debt collector with spreadsheets, and I'm in charge of a high number of low value accounts. I use a number of methods not generally used by those who cover the larger value account to ensure coverage. Let's say I cover 80% of the number of accounts, but <5% of the total ledger value. My boss supposed that given my salary, the time spent, and the return gained, that particular duty might not be worth the companys time and money.


We would be (potentially) be prepared to forego these customers for future business, as my process is generally pretty brutal. We just wouldn't deal with this type of customer any longer. They're only a small part of our bottom line, who cares. We can't deal with the collections process, so we (potentially) won't accept the work. Got a small job? Take it elsewhere, we don't have time to deal with your petty requests.

The analogy is that my company is pretty much willing to lose a large amount of customers, because we can't support a niche requirement for this group. On the books, doesn't make much of a difference, but taken to an extreme, we've lost >500 customers.



Derus Grobb
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2010.05.29 23:23:00 - [76]
 

Could CCP please tell us what % of clients had the Widescreen "feature" enabled.

Susitna
Caldari
The Tuskers
Posted - 2010.05.30 00:09:00 - [77]
 

I used widscreen and I want it back. The UI in this game is horrid and the widescreen mode made it easier to see the UI.


Bring it back please.

Vol Jbolaz
Odinsdagrting
Posted - 2010.05.30 00:42:00 - [78]
 

I'm sorry, but I want to add my rant to this thread. Given has how I don't usually post, much less rant, please understand that I am particularly mad.

I used this feature. The widescreen option actually did add more visible space to the screen. You could see more. That is the reason why movies are shot in widescreen. It gives the viewers the ability to see more.

I'm sorry, but this is just upsetting.

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2010.05.30 00:45:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Borun Tal on 30/05/2010 00:46:22
Originally by: Terrax Norik
And people wonder why Devs don't post more often on the forums. Rolling Eyes


Speaking as a developer myself, I can say that the decision to remove the option being discussed was most likely done at management level, not by an individual developer. Ease up on the devs, they're not the ones making the ****-poor decisions (or lack of decisions, as the case may be).

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.05.30 01:00:00 - [80]
 

Wow, so ANOTHER stoke of genus CCP had for the worthless patch.

Way to go guys.

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.05.30 01:08:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Derus Grobb
Could CCP please tell us what % of clients had the Widescreen "feature" enabled.


They don't track these things. Also, see the comment of Eris Discordia earlier in the thread on having no data .. loving to have insight .. but removing regardless of either case or efforts in support of either case.

Noun Verber
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.30 01:56:00 - [82]
 

Wait, how did widescreen help the colourblind and macroers?

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.05.30 02:33:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Noun Verber
Wait, how did widescreen help the colourblind and macroers?

Can't discuss Macro's functionality, as I have no idea (but I would imagine that it has something to do with color variations?).

For those colorblind (or limited color discernment) who only see in shades of gray/white/black, having your mods over the black background made it much easier to see if mods were active, damage from heat, etc. Having the Overview set over the black background made all the targets on your OV much more visible.

Now (especially in nebula systems) it has become much harder for the colorblind/challenged, or those of us with old eyes to see some of the information that you *really* need when engaged...

squinting during combat FTL....ugh



Woodwraith
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.05.30 02:38:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Woodwraith on 30/05/2010 02:58:18
Originally by: Noun Verber
Wait, how did widescreen help the colourblind and macroers?


I'm not sure whats kosher to say in regards to macros, so my post might get replaced with a little bit of yellow text, but...

Edited, prbly gonna get edited if left as is.
By the same logic that a black background makes it easier for someone visually impaired to see if theres something up at the top where the locked targets show up, having a background color of a known value would simplify someones coding efforts if you for instance, wanted to know if a roid was locked or not w/o, you know, being there to look at it

ninja edit:
Also, I just bought an Acer laptop with a REALLY widescreen format, and without the widescreen option, I cant get a windowed client to work right, I wind up missing the bottom bit of the screen for an area as tall as the window title area, so everytime I have a brain fart and minimized the scanner i have to fullscreen, move it back, and then window the client again before my alt gets ganked in a fight.
Neutral

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.30 02:49:00 - [85]
 

CCP has a strange philosophy about its game:

we add features but we don't know why players use the feature so that gives us the right to remove said feature if we find we cant make it work with ALL the stuff we want to add to EVE.


In short, if we cant make it work with expansions we remove it...players be damned.


I really don't see a future with this game if this mindset continues.

Hecatonis
Amarr
Posted - 2010.05.30 02:55:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
CCP has a strange philosophy about its game:

we add features but we don't know why players use the feature so that gives us the right to remove said feature if we find we cant make it work with ALL the stuff we want to add to EVE.


In short, if we cant make it work with expansions we remove it...players be damned.


I really don't see a future with this game if this mindset continues.



with all the wine is see in your posts can i have your stuff?

you seem very unhappy with this game, but you still spend money and/or time with it.

maybe its time you head out into the sun, and laid and step away for a bit

Woodwraith
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.05.30 03:02:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Hecatonis
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
CCP has a strange philosophy about its game:

we add features but we don't know why players use the feature so that gives us the right to remove said feature if we find we cant make it work with ALL the stuff we want to add to EVE.


In short, if we cant make it work with expansions we remove it...players be damned.


I really don't see a future with this game if this mindset continues.



with all the wine is see in your posts can i have your stuff?

you seem very unhappy with this game, but you still spend money and/or time with it.

maybe its time you head out into the sun, and laid and step away for a bit


And I'm sure you toss everything in your life thats the least bit sub-optimal out to the trash eh?
The fact that we spend money and time on this game is what gives us a reason and a right to be critical of decision's that don't seem to be in anyone's best interests.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.05.30 03:18:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Vol Jbolaz
The widescreen option actually did add more visible space to the screen. You could see more. That is the reason why movies are shot in widescreen. It gives the viewers the ability to see more.


Wow. Just, wow.Rolling Eyes

MadMuppet
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.30 04:38:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Vol Jbolaz
The widescreen option actually did add more visible space to the screen. You could see more. That is the reason why movies are shot in widescreen. It gives the viewers the ability to see more.


Wow. Just, wow.Rolling Eyes


Yeah, I twitched when I read that as well. Apples to oranges, and someone added a banana.

You did not see 'more' with widescreen in Eve than you would have with the normal view. What you did see was actually 'less' and that was the central band of graphics on your screen with the top and bottom blacked out.

This had two effects. 1. Higher frame rate since the rendered area for graphics was smaller and had less impact on the graphics card, although I will admit that benefit is only of value on lower end machines(like my struggling laptop). 2. It provided a clear area for players to see their targets and there ship equipment. without harsh background colors destroying the contrast needed to read the instruments quickly and clearly.

For me, with the black upper and lower areas gone I now find myself spinning the camera wildly in a fight to keep my high/med/low slots and my targets out of bright areas of the screen to keep a clear view of what is going on. I would rather be fighting rats and players than having to fight the UI.

As for the comments about 'that is the reason why movies are shot in widescreen...' , um, feel free to email me in game and I can explain why that doesn't apply here.

-MadMuppet

Shereza
Posted - 2010.05.30 06:33:00 - [90]
 

I don't see why anyone is surprised or upset over this decision. CCP has systematically been lowering the usability of the UI for the last several years despite any accidental improvements along the way.

Cases in point, the drone window got completely thrashed. It used to be you could clearly see armor, hull, and shield damage and, as I recall, could even see it on drones in your bay. Now you have to launch your drones, or run a repair check while docked, to see if they're damaged and along the way you have to use three bars on one line, henceforth to be called Tiny Ass Bar, instead of on three separate lines which makes it hard to tell the difference between 0 damage and 5% damage at times.

Fleets are another example. While I somewhat like the ability to break fleets down into squads, especially as it more easily lets people with different focuses work on different objectives more easily while remaining in the same fleet instead of having to create multiple fleets/gangs, the fact that we first lost being able to see HP values of gang members, then could see them again on the TAB, and then we had to open up a separate window to view people. What's worse is that they either removed or did a very good job of hiding the ability to add your entire fleet/squad/whatever to the watch bar forcing me to add people individually.

Now, let's look at the TABs. Sure, putting them all on one bar means that we don't have to scroll as much to see multiple drones or fleet members, but I've found that it's really hard to get a truly accurate damage read from them. I see what looks like 40-50% damage, switch to that alt, and they're sitting pretty at 70%. This visual discrepency is minor at levels of 10% or so, such as when a new member joins a fleet with the 10% siege warfare bonus, but at around 50% damage on the TAB it's nowhere close on the ship in question, and even when the TAB indicates 30% damage the ship in question is often closer to 40-50% damaged in that field. All of this, however, ignores the fact that these TABs, by relieving us of the need to scroll, can force us to increase the width of our windows beyond that which we would prefer.

Heck, let's look at over-heating. I understand that over-heating can be very useful, even for carebears such as myself, but as it stands the UI makes it too easy to accidentally click on the over-heat mini-button when you click on the module icons instead of using the appropriate Function variant. This may not be a serious issue, but it's still one more niggling little detail to annoy users, whether by having their modules accidentally over-heated or by having to re-click them after reading the message that you don't have the skills for over-heating.

Then there's the multiple issues I've had over the last several years with the windows.

#1 The item/ships window for stations is irrevocably linked to wreck and jet can windows resulting in any moving and resizing of the first two windows to a usable level causing the latter two to take up unacceptable portions of my screen.

#2 Opening my drone window will entirely too often result in it not opening up on the middle left-hand side of my screen where I leave it but instead under my overview, often resizing my overview along the way.

#3 Opening up my market window will often do the same.

#4 Opening up item info windows will often shift my market window and resize the info windows from the default settings, and what's worse is that when I resize the info windows the EVE UI now promptly forgets them.

#5 Having new chat windows opens up now has them no longer opening up on the bar where they should, even when it's multiple windows from the same player, and also requires that I first move them from their initial position before I can drag/drop them onto the chat group lest I have them either move the chat group to another position or have the new window reposition itself so I can't drop it onto the chat group.


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