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Natalie Caladan
Posted - 2010.05.26 11:54:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Lone Lynx

There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid.

More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship losses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero.

Fully agree. It would be so nice if insurance companies in EVE would be owned by players and not NPCs.

Eva Wolfe
Posted - 2010.05.26 11:58:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Heimdallofasgard

imagine driving your car around a city... everyone can see what you have inside your car through the windows... so if you've got something realy expensive you wanna take across town... you'll either put it in a box first... chuck it in the trunk so no-one can see it... courier it to yourself and the couriers insurance covers it... or you can use a car with no windows... or a really quick car that no-one can see inside...

what you don't do... is drive across town with the really expensive item in a really flash car, roof down, while item is resting on the backseat...

you adapt in life so adapt in game you bunch of whiney f***s


A cargo hold is like your trunk, they use scanners you know so effectively there are no trunks as you portray, just cargo holds as if they were made of clear glass.

Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2010.05.26 11:59:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Eva Wolfe
Originally by: Heimdallofasgard

imagine driving your car around a city... everyone can see what you have inside your car through the windows... so if you've got something realy expensive you wanna take across town... you'll either put it in a box first... chuck it in the trunk so no-one can see it... courier it to yourself and the couriers insurance covers it... or you can use a car with no windows... or a really quick car that no-one can see inside...

what you don't do... is drive across town with the really expensive item in a really flash car, roof down, while item is resting on the backseat...

you adapt in life so adapt in game you bunch of whiney f***s


A cargo hold is like your trunk, they use scanners you know so effectively there are no trunks as you portray, just cargo holds as if they were made of clear glass.


put containers in your cargohold and fill them up with the loot.

Dizmul 78
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:12:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Brusanan
Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it.

The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked.


This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible which in fact you probably have never seen them before in your life... ever. Secondly, (and this is not totally your fault; because people are greedy and they dont care about anything but themselves) you could be offering assistance since your such a pro at the game. But we wont expect anything near that. The fact is your wouldnt be acting like this if he was standing right next to you. The problem is not the player you mention of. Its people like you that ruin all mmos.

Snabbik Shigen
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:18:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Heimdallofasgard
put containers in your cargohold and fill them up with the loot.


Contents of containers show up on a cargo scan.

(I don't want ganking outlawed, I just want it to be more expensive then "basically free" as that makes it all reward and little to no risk.)

Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:22:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Dizmul 78
Originally by: Brusanan
Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it.

The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked.


This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible which in fact you probably have never seen them before in your life... ever. Secondly, (and this is not totally your fault; because people are greedy and they dont care about anything but themselves) you could be offering assistance since your such a pro at the game. But we wont expect anything near that. The fact is your wouldnt be acting like this if he was standing right next to you. The problem is not the player you mention of. Its people like you that ruin all mmos.


and it's people like you that make them great! Laughing

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:22:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Natalie Caladan
Originally by: Lone Lynx

There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid.

More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship losses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero.

Fully agree. It would be so nice if insurance companies in EVE would be owned by players and not NPCs.


Which players did you have in mind. The ones who are willing to give everyone who loses a ship "legitimately" 40% of the value of their ship as a free gift are probably not the ones with much ISK to do it with.

PS I put quote marks around legitimate because in the last CSM meeting, CCP explicitly affirmed that suicide ganking is intended and legitimate play.

Chal0ner
Amarr
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:28:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Chal0ner on 26/05/2010 12:36:53
Originally by: Lightmans

1.is this known?
2.what can we do against that?

cargo ships are not more safe to travel with autopilot in high sec!!!

3.why we call it then high sec?


Very late here - still this pops up from time to time... Confused

1. Obviously
2. Stop playing Eve?
3. Because the sec rating is higher than 0.4
It's called high sec, not secure sec.
There is no secure space in Eve. Period. Stop fussing about it. There will never be.

But ... it's official (dev response in thread on loot nerfing, mineral prices and subsequent insurance changes), there will be a nerf of insurance payouts for ships killed by concord. It'll balance the situation a bit. When is another question altogether.

Obviously they will not prevent suicide ganking* (why should they?) - but it'll cost the ganker more to do it.


* Suicide ganking is usually related to high sec killing for lolz or high profit in loot in regards to the lost ship(-s) (my definition). Just to stop the endless idi0t flaming the got started last time, I'm not against suicide ganking, but for more balance in regards to that.

Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:29:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Natalie Caladan
Originally by: Lone Lynx

There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid.

More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship losses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero.

Fully agree. It would be so nice if insurance companies in EVE would be owned by players and not NPCs.


Which players did you have in mind. The ones who are willing to give everyone who loses a ship "legitimately" 40% of the value of their ship as a free gift are probably not the ones with much ISK to do it with.

PS I put quote marks around legitimate because in the last CSM meeting, CCP explicitly affirmed that suicide ganking is intended and legitimate play.


yup intended gameplay... just like you can suicide bomb in real life

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:35:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Dizmul 78
Originally by: Brusanan
Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it.

The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked.


This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible


Maybe it was the same guy who gave you the right to go around calling other peoples' games "horse dung"? Let's ask him if it was!

Dizmul 78
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:37:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Heimdallofasgard
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Natalie Caladan
Originally by: Lone Lynx

There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail. Losing a ship whilst engaged in criminal activity should result in the insurance becoming invalid.

More of it: Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship losses history, like in RL. Lose ships often and your insurance costs will soar. Keep your insured ships safe and your insurance costs will begin to drop, and ultimately even go to zero.

Fully agree. It would be so nice if insurance companies in EVE would be owned by players and not NPCs.


Which players did you have in mind. The ones who are willing to give everyone who loses a ship "legitimately" 40% of the value of their ship as a free gift are probably not the ones with much ISK to do it with.

PS I put quote marks around legitimate because in the last CSM meeting, CCP explicitly affirmed that suicide ganking is intended and legitimate play.


yup intended gameplay... just like you can suicide bomb in real life


yea only except this game is not real life numnuts

Dizmul 78
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:42:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:48:24
Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:47:53
Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:45:47
Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:44:48
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Dizmul 78
Originally by: Brusanan
Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it.

The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked.


This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible


Maybe it was the same guy who gave you the right to go around calling other peoples' games "horse dung"? Let's ask him if it was!


Referring to all mmos as horse dung is no where near like degrading someone all over the forums based on information that they dont have. Im tired of this kind of reckless behavior and the idiotic people that respond to it trying to defend their glorified game that they have put soo much time and effort to. You people dont impress me.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:43:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Eva Wolfe
There should be no payout if CONCORD gets on the killmail.
Why?
Originally by: Lone Lynx
Insurance costs must be dependent on your ship loses history, like in RL.
Why?

EVE ≠ Real life.
Pend Insurance ≠ Home insurance.

Insurance is a cost-mitigation game mechanic and an economic control mechanism, not a business.

My Postman
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:45:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Heimdallofasgard
Edited by: Heimdallofasgard on 26/05/2010 11:54:33
Rant thread is ranty...

honestly... don't complain about suicide ganking as something that needs to be resolved... it's a gameplay dynamic...

as is can flipping and ninja salvaging... I don't complain about any of these three mechanics as doing so would be petty and throwing toys out the pram... learn to adapt for these mechanics and you'll be fine...

imagine driving your car around a city... everyone can see what you have inside your car through the windows... so if you've got something realy expensive you wanna take across town... you'll either put it in a box first... chuck it in the trunk so no-one can see it... courier it to yourself and the couriers insurance covers it... or you can use a car with no windows... or a really quick car that no-one can see inside...

what you don't do... is drive across town with the really expensive item in a really flash car, roof down, while item is resting on the backseat...

you adapt in life so adapt in game you bunch of whiney f***s


Worst post i read for some time.
You compare hauling in eve to RL? Actually i have to tell you that you are not driving around in London/Berlin/Las Vegas/Wherever but in a city coming out of GRAND THEFT AUTO? That would compare to eve. So no RL assumptions here.

Two posts ahead you give wrong advice by packing loot into containers, where the inside of the container is perfectly seen on cargo scan?
You need to pack your goodies into Orcas Corp hangar, that would help!

So much for you sir.

@OP
There is a lot of hate in this thread. Get over it. EVE is THE game full of schoolyard bullies, griefers, scammers, can flippers, ninja salvagers and all the rest of low level minded ppl, trying to ruin your day. And itīs because CCP seems to want it to be that way.

Ranting on forums doesīnt help it, as you see all you get is flames. So, here is my advice: ADAPT. If you donīt adapt you wonīt find fun in this game.
Experiance will help you a lot to circumvent such situations. And for the most, BE ON YOUR TOES ALWAYS, ANYWHERE!

Hope this helps!

Fletcho
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:46:00 - [105]
 

I like the idea of being at risk of being shot down whenever I haul valuable cargo. It's more exciting than missioning, mining or ratting. It's the "You-lose-PVP" situation. You can't really run, you can't fight back. All you can do is hope that CONCORD gets there before your ship blows up.

That being said, I think it would be fair if you lose your rights to insurance money or at least partially if you lose your ship to CONCORD. That in it's own would decrease the amount of gank attempts (provided people continue to fly with their cargo spaces as before).

Going on autopilot for long high-sec trips can be tempting, but at some point you WILL die. It gives attackers so much more time, while you are approaching the gate, to estimate the value of your cargo. Where as if you do it on manual they only have the seconds before you warp off.

In short, I'd like to see some insurance changes made to the group known as suicide gankers, but if it stays as it is now, I'm sure the world will continue to thrive.

Hakkar'al Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:52:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Hakkar''al Gallente on 26/05/2010 12:52:21
Originally by: Fletcho
Going on autopilot for long high-sec trips can be tempting, but at some point you WILL die.


I once put my perfectly fine Hulk on auto from high sec A -> high sec B (all high sec system between) and got to the destination in 50% armor Shocked Noob pre-hulkageddon being? Very Happy

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.05.26 12:58:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 26/05/2010 12:59:14
Originally by: Fletcho
I like the idea of being at risk of being shot down whenever I haul valuable cargo. It's more exciting than missioning, mining or ratting. It's the "You-lose-PVP" situation. You can't really run, you can't fight back. All you can do is hope that CONCORD gets there before your ship blows up.
I think a lot of this comes down to perspective.

It's like a whole lot of other things in EVE: much of the PvP is not decided in the moment, but in the preparations before it all actually happens. Did you pick the right ship? Did you pick a good route? Did you hear the scan go off (yes, EVE has sound)? Did you divert your route once detected? etc. etc. The final act of being blown up (or not) is just the culmination of a lo-o-ong chain of events and decisions, and a lot of the "fighting back" actually happened in that lead-up.

There's a lot of noise made about how EVE is a game of choices and consequences, but this is really one of the better and clearer examples of how that actually plays out. The "fight" wasn't the thing you had to win: it was only the consequence — a done deal — of the choices you made long before that.

Tradesman Mcgee
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:09:00 - [108]
 

Crybaby carebears got their very own CSM representative now, go cry to Ankhesepwhatevertard with your suicide gank stories.

Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:14:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Dizmul 78
Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:48:24
Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:47:53
Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:45:47
Edited by: Dizmul 78 on 26/05/2010 12:44:48
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Dizmul 78
Originally by: Brusanan
Tank your hauler, and don't carry hundreds of millions worth of cargo in it.

The problem is not the suicide ganking, it's that you are too terrible at the game to avoid getting suicide ganked.


This is a prime example of how I think all mmo games are becoming a steaming pile of horse dung. For one thing, who gives you the right to go around calling people terrible


Maybe it was the same guy who gave you the right to go around calling other peoples' games "horse dung"? Let's ask him if it was!


Referring to all mmos as horse dung is no where near like degrading someone all over the forums based on information that they dont have. Im tired of this kind of reckless behavior and the idiotic people that respond to it trying to defend their glorified game that they have put soo much time and effort to. You people dont impress me.


HAH you're an idiot

Dalek Commander
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:16:00 - [110]
 

I've lived in 0.0 for almost 3 years. I run high end plexs, and every month I send to Jita billions in loot. I've never been ganked and this is how I do it.

1. Jump my loot to a .4 system in a carrier.
2. Alt takes loot to the system next door in a transport (cloaky one)
3. Alt creates a courier contract of the cans to a 2nd alt in a NPC corp to move to Jita.
4. Transport Alt logs in and merrily goes to Jita gank free

I do the reverse trip the same way back for all my yummy 0.0 goods.

The important part here is making a courier contract using the giant secure can. When would be gankers scan my industrial they can not see what is inside that can. So they don't know if I have 100bil in loot, or a can full of tobacco. Gankers don't like to gamble, so they leave me alone and wait for the idiot to come through with all the loot in the hold.




northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:25:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Nareg Maxence

Personally I think that taking away insurance for losses to Concord would be fair. Obviously that will not remove suicide ganking. It will just raise the bar on how valuable the cargo has to be before suiciding it becomes profitable.


This! I just surprised they haven;t done this yet.

Gentle Miner
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:27:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Gentle Miner on 26/05/2010 13:33:10
Originally by: Dizmul 78
Originally by: Heimdallofasgard


yup intended gameplay... just like you can suicide bomb in real life


yea only except this game is not real life numnuts
Except you can't get insurance, a new body and do it all over again in real life. I always thought that there should be no insurance payout for CONCORDOKEN.

Boogie Bobby
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:28:00 - [113]
 

Move high value, low volume loot in a combat ship. Bigger tanks, less likely to be checked out, faster align, harder to target etc.

Stay off the standard space lanes. Especially avoid the Perimeter gate at Jita. Going to Niyabanen(sp?) is 1 more jump and it's a ghost town there. I've gone so far as docking a few jumps out, splitting my cargo up and hauling it in to Jita in better ships to avoid ganks.

Sometimes people will just kill you for the lulz or you'll get caught in a smart bomb gank. Accept that this is reality.

Lets say hypothetically that insurance is taken out for suicide gankers. It will still happen. That crappy industrial you're using to haul half a bil worth of goods is still easy pickings for a 60 mil BS or three.

Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:29:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Dalek Commander
I've lived in 0.0 for almost 3 years. I run high end plexs, and every month I send to Jita billions in loot. I've never been ganked and this is how I do it.

1. Jump my loot to a .4 system in a carrier.
2. Alt takes loot to the system next door in a transport (cloaky one)
3. Alt creates a courier contract of the cans to a 2nd alt in a NPC corp to move to Jita.
4. Transport Alt logs in and merrily goes to Jita gank free

I do the reverse trip the same way back for all my yummy 0.0 goods.

The important part here is making a courier contract using the giant secure can. When would be gankers scan my industrial they can not see what is inside that can. So they don't know if I have 100bil in loot, or a can full of tobacco. Gankers don't like to gamble, so they leave me alone and wait for the idiot to come through with all the loot in the hold.






this is what I meant earlier about putting loot into cargo cans.

OPX2
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:30:00 - [115]
 

Get/Train a freighter maybe?

Spectre80
Caldari
The Knights Templar
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:43:00 - [116]
 

even tho im very rarely in empire and never fly autopilot on with cargo i just want to say i agree with op.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.26 14:30:00 - [117]
 

Just pretend that a suicide ganking attempt is a 100% certainty every time you undock your hauler and play accordingly. That's what I do. I have not been ganked yet, luckily, but I've been scanned plenty.

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2010.05.26 14:51:00 - [118]
 

Good! Not enough danger in hi-sec. It is supposed to be "safer" and not "invincible mode"...

Hon Dao
Posted - 2010.05.26 14:59:00 - [119]
 

Needs at least two people to work.

  1. Bookmark a point somewhere along the warp route to the inevitable gank.


  2. Park an empty industrial there.


  3. After you get scanned in the one you're actually hauling stuff in, warp to the bookmark instead of the gate, and transfer the goods to the one waiting.


  4. Warp on to the gank, and laugh as they blow up a now empty ship.


  5. (If you really want to take the p***) Tractor and salvage their wrecks in the second industrial while you autopilot to the gate.

Daedalus II
Helios Research
Posted - 2010.05.26 15:07:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Daedalus II on 26/05/2010 15:11:13
Personally I don't have anything against the legit suicide ganks, it's all in the game mechanics. What is a problem is all the asshat pirates that gank pretty much anything. They are unpredictable and hard to defend against.

Once I discovered my high sec afk autopiloting recon had gone into armor damage all of a sudden. I for the life of me couldn't understand why anyone would gank a recon without any cargo other than low value isotopes, but eventually figured out it must have been smart bombs and someone else being the target. How am I supposed to expect that??

Another time I was out flying a T2 bpc (value < 1 mil) afk in a shuttle, and sure as hell some dumb ass destroyed the shuttle with his T2 fitted destroyer (I guess the joke was on him especially as the blueprint didn't even drop). I mean you have to be pretty stupid if you think someone is hauling around a T2 bpo in a shuttle on autopilot.

Now a lost shuttle and low value blueprint is nothing I care about, but what if I had been in a pimped out assault frigate or other expensive T2 frigate and someone decides that the T2 bpc is in fact an original. I'll lose a 50+ mil ship just because someone made a mistake that pretty much won't cost him a dime.

Or what if I'm caught in the blast of smart bombs meant for someone else while I'm happily shuttling around in an all +5 implant clone and get podded. That's a nice 500 mil gone that I couldn't possibly have prepared for.

Same thing when I haul stuff in a freighter. Who knows if some idiot mistakes a load worth 100 mil with a load with 100 bil. I'll lose my expensive ship and inexpensive cargo due to some idiot that didn't finish basic math in school.


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