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blankseplocked [Proposal] [Issue] Petitions raised regarding GM's, Ethics?
 
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Karnov
Poor Old Ornery nOObs
Turdz Asshatz N Grieferz
Posted - 2010.05.21 23:45:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Karnov on 24/05/2010 21:46:24
I propose that a petition that covers the actions of a GM should not be put before the GM concerned to ensure that impartiality is maintained.

A GM took an action against my character, I raised a petition to complain at the action of this GM as he quoted rules that I know don't exist.

How ethical is it then for that same GM the complaint is about to be handling the petition? Is it ethical for that petition class to even go near the GM's?

The issue I raised was put before the same GM I was complaining about, I've never heard of any company regarding this as an ethical practice?

My actual issue was just given the run around, how can any customer have confidence in a complaints procedure. Prehaps CCP should drop it and add a Bend Over petition option? Shocked

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.05.22 00:16:00 - [2]
 

this forum is not the right place.

file a petition and let it escalate to a senior GM.

or write to internal affairs.

slipperywhenhappy
Posted - 2010.05.22 00:20:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: slipperywhenhappy on 22/05/2010 01:27:19
lol grin's I guess that is one way to keep there complain lv's down if they handle there own tickets lol

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.22 01:08:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
this forum is not the right place.

file a petition and let it escalate to a senior GM.

or write to internal affairs.


This concerns an entire mechanic rather then a specific petition. Specific cases should be petitioned, but when requesting that CCP change their way of handling certain petition classes, going trough the CSM should be perfectly fine.

Mkah Mvet
Duolith Systems

Posted - 2010.05.22 01:12:00 - [5]
 

Since there's currently no way to ask "let me speak to your supervisor" a GM could completely suppress petitions against themselves. That's not right, and needs to be fixed.

SupaKudoRio
Posted - 2010.05.22 02:05:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 22/05/2010 02:07:17
Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 22/05/2010 02:05:32
Originally by: darius mclever
this forum is not the right place.


I must be entirely mistaken on the purpose of the CSM, then. Neutral

The petition system does need an overhaul; the circumstance of a GM complaint petition getting put into the lap of the same GM you're complaining about is ridiculous, and really puts the fact in the spotlight.

In fact, that type of petition should start much higher up in the chain. Appropriately with much more serious consequences for misuse.

Starfinder Smith
Posted - 2010.05.22 02:23:00 - [7]
 

It would be nice to see a response from CCP on this. It is clearly a conflict of interest if not a misuse/abuse. The CSM maybe the correct avenue for this, but surley CCP reads this forum?

hgedsku
Posted - 2010.05.22 03:41:00 - [8]
 

Makes sense. Even if he was right it is stupid that a petition against him would go to him.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.22 06:17:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Mkah Mvet
Since there's currently no way to ask "let me speak to your supervisor" a GM could completely suppress petitions against themselves. That's not right, and needs to be fixed.


You can ask: ""let me speak to a senior GM" and if refused or stalled for an extended period you can contact directly Internal Affairs at CCP.

A filter "give me a GM different from [insert name]" would rapidly degenerate as people would share the name of GM they feel are unsympathetic so that everyone will avoid them and try to get the bleeding hears GM that will easily reimburse ships, lift bans and generally rule in favor of the players requests.

Even worse it will allow people to try to get GM sympathetic to one alliance or a stile of gaming.



Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2010.05.22 08:10:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Drake Draconis on 22/05/2010 08:09:59
Originally by: Karnov
A GM took an action against my character, I raised a petition to complain at the action of this GM as he quoted rules that I know don't exist.


The question everyone isn't asking but should have thought of at least once is -

Just what did you do and what was the action?

This smells of whinery.

Mai Shiranui
Ninjitsu Heavy Industries
Posted - 2010.05.22 15:55:00 - [11]
 

Still, he has a point: I know from experience how frustrating it is when all complaints about a person must go through that person.

If it's whinery, the higher up would just brush it off for being just that. If it's not...

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.05.22 16:12:00 - [12]
 

I recently ran into a petition disappearing from my interfaces and created a petition under: "Rules & Policies"/"GM & ISD". It was picked up by a senior directly, so as far I am concerned the requested means is already available .. turns out the petition I petitioned hadn't been deleted but that CCP tools are FUBAR and failed at associating the email/account properly Twisted Evil
If the senior is the issue then the matter should go to IA which is by mail only I think.

The only thing I would like to be more accessible is how/when to contact IA .. especially the how Smile

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.05.22 16:45:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Mkah Mvet
Since there's currently no way to ask "let me speak to your supervisor" a GM could completely suppress petitions against themselves. That's not right, and needs to be fixed.


Completely false. Ask for your petition to be escalated to a senior GM. They're obligated to pass it along right away. If that doesn't work(and I've never heard of it not working when the petitioner made clear what they wanted), contact Internal Affairs. This stuff isn't as well-publicized as it perhaps should be, but it does exist.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.05.22 17:55:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Mkah Mvet
Since there's currently no way to ask "let me speak to your supervisor" a GM could completely suppress petitions against themselves. That's not right, and needs to be fixed.


You can ask: ""let me speak to a senior GM" and if refused or stalled for an extended period you can contact directly Internal Affairs at CCP.

A filter "give me a GM different from [insert name]" would rapidly degenerate as people would share the name of GM they feel are unsympathetic so that everyone will avoid them and try to get the bleeding hears GM that will easily reimburse ships, lift bans and generally rule in favor of the players requests.

Even worse it will allow people to try to get GM sympathetic to one alliance or a stile of gaming.





If I were a GM that would give me a strong incentive to be as unsympathetic as possible.

PS You're banned.

VonKaplanek III
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.23 06:56:00 - [15]
 

I am concerned that the filter didn't catch the a.nus-like word in the name of your corp. Shouldn't the filter filter all words including corp names?

I should petition that.

Karnov
Poor Old Ornery nOObs
Turdz Asshatz N Grieferz
Posted - 2010.05.23 19:08:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Drake Draconis
This smells of whinery.


Even if I was whining (which I'm not (here anyway Very Happy)) it doesn't mean there is still not an issue to be answered.

WhiteSleeve
Posted - 2010.05.23 19:14:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: WhiteSleeve on 23/05/2010 19:18:20
What you've been put through on this has been a complete farce. At no time in ANY setting should the individual who a complaint has been lodged against be RESPONDING to that complaint. That's what multiple supervisors/GM's/ETC are for. It is simply unethical for this GM to be responding to a complaint about himself.

GSG9 DRKANGEL
Posted - 2010.05.23 19:17:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: GSG9 DRKANGEL on 23/05/2010 19:19:46
How can anyone in their right mind in any setting think that it is acceptable for that to happen? It's Just WRONG to complain to someone that They're doing something wrong and expect them to fix it. Clearly this is a case of unethical action taken by a GM.

Neo Gabriel
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2010.05.23 19:17:00 - [19]
 


cyberlord
Posted - 2010.05.23 19:21:00 - [20]
 

this is not a acceptible display of gm management

Aipomdude
Posted - 2010.05.23 21:41:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Aipomdude on 23/05/2010 21:46:29
well my faith in the GM's wasnt particularly high its not gonna get higher with loopholes such as this one.

Omega Flames
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.05.24 01:42:00 - [22]
 


Tyrone Bighams
Gallente
Tactical Command Sector
Posted - 2010.05.24 02:04:00 - [23]
 

No matter what the problem was the player has the right to petition it even if it is whinery, and that petition should be fair and balanced. this is a massive failure of the GM system, one that CSM and CCP should prioritize. we cant fix broken game mechanics if the GM system breaks down before.

Feline Ferocity
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.05.24 13:02:00 - [24]
 


Hintoni
Amarr
Malady.

Posted - 2010.05.24 13:04:00 - [25]
 


Tiana Lumini
Amarr
Asshats with Baseball Bats

Posted - 2010.05.24 13:05:00 - [26]
 


Bruzore
Posted - 2010.05.24 13:07:00 - [27]
 

As one of Karnov's corpies I do know the inside story on this. Without getting into specifics and/or pointing fingers..... basically a GM has used his powers to effectively stop this char from being used anymore. The retribution this GM has imposed on the char is FAR beyond the actual dmg inflicted by the char. Especially considering there is NO specific rule saying what was done CANT be done... READ the damn EULA and rules before imposing such drastic measures on a char that has been playin FAR longer than the GM has probably been employed at CCP. I challene ANY gm to show me the specific rule/rules that were broken in this case. PROVE ME WRONG

nuff said

Devils Blade
Caldari
Asshats with Baseball Bats

Posted - 2010.05.24 13:11:00 - [28]
 


Liun Sunzhi
Posted - 2010.05.24 14:14:00 - [29]
 

Petition against a certain GM being delivered to the same GM is not right at all.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:25:00 - [30]
 

Regardless of whether or not the OP deserved the "action against (his) character" and regardless of whether or not petitioners can escalate a petition... a GM shouldn't be able to handle a petition against himself/herself. That isn't ethical.

The OP should change the wording of their post to include a proposal to not allow a GM to handle petitions filed against them.


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