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Arazel Chainfire
The Awakened Armada
Apex United
Posted - 2010.05.18 17:53:00 - [31]
 

How long have I been playing?

Started 4 years ago, took a 1 year break.

Have I ever been to lowsec?

Yes, but only for PvP or for POS work.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

no

If not, why not?

A couple of reasons. First and foremost, if I am paying attention, I can already make 20+mil an hour just on bounties, not counting LP's (probably another 20+mil an hour from that). This is more than enough to pay for pretty much anything that I really want to do in eve. Secondly, I refuse to go into lowsec in a gankbait ship that can't even fight back, and is usually far more expensive than anything that a pirate would take against me. Any mission fit that can come anywhere near competing with my current ships perfectly fits that description.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

Hell no. No reward is in line with the near guarantee of dying to a pirate for lols. Only if there was a way to run the mission without being gankbait while in it would I consider running missions. On that note, I am now planning on training and buying an unprobeable tengu fit (i just can't get any other ship to look anything near decent than that...).

Is the risk in lowsec over-stated?

If you are doing anything other that missioning/complexes, yes. If you are doing missions/complexes... if anything, the risk is understated.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

Nope.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)

Make it impossible to probe out a mission runner in a mission. I can tolerate the risk of getting to and from the mission, if I am safe while in it. Yeah, there are tricks that you can use that will reduce your risk currently. But that risk is still there, and it is still way too high if you want to pull me out of highsec. Note, very important here is not just making it impossible to probe out the mission runner, but also impossible to probe out the drones.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

Yes, it is possible. That being said, pirates are going to have to accept some reductions in their ability to attack the mission runners, else there isn't going to be any reason for that mission runner to come down and join them.

-Arazel

Lil Mule
Posted - 2010.05.18 18:02:00 - [32]
 

How long have you been playing?

4 years and change

Have you ever been in low sec?

Many times, although Ive spent most of my time in 0.0

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

I have yes, but not a lot

If so, what is the appeal for you?

If not, why not?

Risk vs Reward is not present. I can earn MUCH more by plexing in 0.0, or, if Im really desperate, lvl 4's in high sec.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

Nope. I'd rather sign up with a 0.0 alliance and put up with some annoying mandatory fleet time and run plexes in 0.0 to make my isk. That and 0.0 allows me to also do pvp without hurting my sec status

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

Depends on the player and the scenario. Would I move a freighter through low sec? Nuts to that. Would I move a blockade runner, or a vagabond, or curse etc through low sec? Yep.

Would I move a mission BS through low sec? Not unless it was warp corp stablizer pimped out.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

Nope. Fact remains (and its been said above) a mission battleship is too slow, and not properly equipped to go into low sec. Most PVE ships are not geared towards living in low sec.

You also have to factor in that missioning and doing PVE is usually a solo endeavour in order to make it some what profitable vs the costs of owning ships. Pirates are co-ordinated, and have scouts/buddies all over, therefore the possibility of you getting outnumberd and ganked is high. The chance of profit is low.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )

More reward. Much more reward would cause me to move some ships down into low sec and take up residence. Think in the order of 40% more reward. Put some 8/10's in low sec and Ill come.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

Yes. Its possible to alter mechanics, and implement new solutions. You have to attract players to it. Right now it doesnt make sense - either stay in high sec and manufature and run missions in safety OR go to 0.0 and run plexes and do PVP. Why go to low sec? The reward isnt nearly as good as high sec or null sec, and getting your sec status ruined because you do pop someone isnt worth it either

Rutilus
Posted - 2010.05.18 18:30:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Ka choop
If you're a pirate and want more people in lo-sec you need to protect them. Sell the space you're patrolling in with your buddies and keep them miners and missionrunners who pay your price safe. Hey, even give them replacement ships if they get shot while under your protection.


This is perhaps the most practical idea, but relies upon trust and honor - things often in short supply in New Eden. If it could be contracted, it might work better - rental agreements, sort of.

Cameron Freerunner
Posted - 2010.05.18 18:38:00 - [34]
 

How long have you been playing? 1.5 years

Have you ever been in low sec? Yes

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec? No

If not, why not? Too often the discussion is shaped in terms of "risk vs. reward." For me, its "highly annoying game time vs. relaxing, entertaining play time." The best mission systems are hunting grounds and there seems little point in me devoting my game time to hide and seek when I'm just looking for a little exciting PvE. I have sampled just about every career path in EVE, including PvP (which was a LOT of fun but a huge time commitment) and a smattering of piracy (which was incredibly boring and unfulfilling). My issue isn't fear of ship loss, its wanting to sit down and just play for a while instead of sitting down to a massive amount of prep work, planning, and paranoia. I have carebear alts and I enjoy planning and prepping too, but sometimes you just want to shoot things without looking over your shoulder.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk? I have no idea.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated? As Azrael said above, for everything but missions, yes the danger is overstated. But missioning is a major problem. Who wants to put themselves into a vulnerable tanking situation with the threat of pirates invading your mission?

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there? Note the word 'mitigate.' Mitigation is not sufficient for ships that cost upwards of 500 million. I know how to use d-scan, am familiar with unprobable/cloaking fits, am familiar with the basics of running a gatecamp, am capable of arranging for my own extended logistics, insta undocks, etc. etc. None of that will help me complete a mission (except unprobable) without constant interruption in a well-known losec mission hub. Unprobable just makes things take longer and, as I recently discovered, gimps your gank and affects your ability to run certain missions. I would much rather rat in NPC nullsec than play peekaboo with pirates.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? I like Azrael's idea above. Let me have my mission space. Everything else seems like a reasonable risk. Perhaps it would be as simple as the agent giving you a 'key' and gating the entrance to all missions. Plexes seem like fair game though.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes... without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not? See above. Gatecamps remain intact, station undocks, etc. are still dangerous. I get to focus on the mission at hand instead of my d-scan. Maybe spreading out the agents uniformly so that there are no mission hubs in losec would mean pirates have to put some effort into their hunting. As it is now, mission runners are fish in a barrel.

z0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2010.05.18 19:15:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: z0de on 18/05/2010 19:23:03
Make agents level/quality dynamic. As more and more people use one agent his quality drops, as one gets used less and less his quality and reward increases. Eventually incentive to spread will win.

Guess I should answer the questions too:


How long have you been playing?
2+ years

Have you ever been in low sec?
Lived there since month 1.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
Yes

If so, what is the appeal for you?
It's easy isk when I get bored and 0.0 is too busy, I have pvp ships and my corp round the corner if things get interesting.


Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
Sort of, depends on how safe the local area is for you.


Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
Yes but it depends heavily on the area. My 'pve' domi costs about as much as pvp domi after insurance has a scrambler, web, heavy neut, eccm, and decent omni(ish) tank. Sure its a bit slower to do missions but its good enough.

Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
Posted - 2010.05.18 19:25:00 - [36]
 

Hey, I think I know you! Wink <3 YARRRR!!

Anyway:

How long have you been playing?

I've been playing for about three years.

Have you ever been in low sec?

I have spent loads of time in lowsec.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec? If so, what is the appeal for you?

I run some missions, but more often exploration (signatures / anomalies) and trading. I love lowsec because the risk balance feels right to me. If I just want to pass through it on my way someplace else, proper piloting keeps the risk fairly low. If I spend time in a system, then (again) proper piloting keeps the risk low. But in either case, if I stop paying attention, my risk goes way up. In my view, this is as it should be and keeps things fun and engaging. Yeah, I like the cat-and-mouse game with lowsec pirates.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

Yes and no. For my activities, probably not: I can make just as much ISK doing other things in high-sec, and low-sec exploration doesn't have quite the rewards I think it should given the mechanics (e.g. sites disappear if you warp out to avoid a pirate). But see below.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

In most areas, sure. But some hotspots (Amamake, Tama, etc.) live up to their reputations, particularly in heavily contested areas with lots of militia activities. I don't think the risk there exceeds reasonable levels, though, considering we need our war zones and hives of scum and villainy.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

To a degree. But I think many players simply don't want risk: they want to run their missions and mine and not have to interact with other folks. They don't see EVE the way you and I see it, where that tension and conflict makes up a big part of the fun (like playing tag when we were kids).

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic.)

I do them now, but I think they could get tweaked a little. I'd like to see exploration sites increased slightly in some way, though the demand would need tweaking as well (otherwise prices for decryptors and other goodies will just plummet).

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

I don't know what all the changes should include, but I see no fundamental reason why the rules of engagement in low-sec can't work for both sides. If I fly smart, then I experience very little loss. If I don't, then the pirates experience a gain. Over time, more pilots (on both "sides") will improve and we'll continue to enjoy a dynamic environment that keeps us entertained and engaged.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.05.18 19:26:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 18/05/2010 19:34:15
Originally by: Rutilus
Originally by: Ka choop
If you're a pirate and want more people in lo-sec you need to protect them. Sell the space you're patrolling in with your buddies and keep them miners and missionrunners who pay your price safe. Hey, even give them replacement ships if they get shot while under your protection.


This is perhaps the most practical idea, but relies upon trust and honor - things often in short supply in New Eden. If it could be contracted, it might work better - rental agreements, sort of.


Actually, there are several well-known pirate groups that sell "passes" and operate a program something like described above. Many have repeat customers month after month. It works well when the pirate corp is large enough to patrol their stomping grounds effectively and in particular when they adopt a single system or constellation as their home. There aren't, unfortunately, all that many low sec systems with enough mission runners to make it worth investing such effort by most pirates. Edited to add: Like z0de said, having dynamic agent quality based on use might spread things out a bit.

Regarding the issue of trust, that's one reason certain pirate corps take their reputation for honoring ransoms very, very seriously--to the point that they'll kick members out who fail to do so.

Regarding suggestions to make it harder to probe mission runners out, this (admittedly blasphemous from a pirate's perspective) idea has always appealed to me. It might be done with rigs or modules fitted to your ship, a deployable/anchorable item in the mission site with an area of effect encompassing the whole mission site, an inherent "effect" in the site itself similar to wormhole effects, etc. Pirates and PVP'ers may scream "WHAT! Make it less easy to kill people? NO!" But that's a little narrow-minded in my view if the goal is to encourage a diverse population in a dangerous place. It sounds like a combo of risk mitigation (not invulnerability, but a definite pimp to survivability) and added rewards would create a situation that could make low sec mish running more appealing. There would still be opportunities for pirates--in fact more of them--even if those opportunities required more effort and had perhaps less chance of success on a case by case basis.

There are some great ideas and excellent discussion in this thread so far. I have very little experience running missions, so the feedback from you much more knowledgeable folks about them relative to low sec is very enlightening. More, please!

Letrange
Minmatar
Red Horizon Inc
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.05.18 20:22:00 - [38]
 

* How long have you been playing?

3 years and a few months

* Have you ever been in low sec?

Yep

* Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

Exploration sites more than missions - try and avoid missions in low sec if possible.

* If so, what is the appeal for you?

Exploration - better than high sec - did it for the T2 stuff not the combat sites.

* If not, why not?

Pointless extra risk for same reward as same missions in high sec. At least the exploration stuff was more rewarding in low sec vs high sec. Also since exploration sites take effort there is a corresponding effort on the part of any pirate coming after me - tends to keep the lazy gate campy pirates from being a problem.

* Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

Mining - nope
Industry - nope pirates keep the market too small to be worth bothering with - except T2 where there are things you can only do in low sec and 0.0 and even there except for harvesting moon minerals it's better to do it in 0.0 k or w space. Not to mention all the really good moons are already staked.
Exploration - yep - but then again only for the T2 and drug stuff

* Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

Yes and no. For industrial ships it's not over rated, for CERTAIN combat ships it is over rated, but then only if you have control over destination - if you don't and it ends up in one of the pipes the risk is under-stated. Hence exploration better than missions

* Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

Nope, there are more profitable things than level 4's that are less risky than missioning in low sec.

The basic problem with low sec is the same it's always been and has nothing to do with the rewards per see. It has to do with the relative risk and a players ability to control the risk. Unless you have some specific thing in low sec that is ONLY available in low sec everything else can be done elsewhere with either less risk or more controllable risk. So you can do one of two things: Get things that are exclusive to low sec to draw people in there or SERIOUSLY up the rewards (it would need to be more rewarding than 0.0 or wormhole space honestly) or make the risk more controllable - for example bubbles or some module that if you activate it would cause target lock on your ship rather than other ships or the ability to choose the low sec system a mission sends you to - something. Those are the 3 options I see.

Part of the issue is exposure - PvE players need long periods of time in space to get the rewards for their activities. Pirates take 2 minutes to kill their ships. Interrupt the PvE player too often and they never see the reward and just abandon the endeavor. The ratio of Pirates to PvE players in low sec is such that any PvE activity in low sec is going to draw attention from pirates within 10 min on average. Too short to get anything done. So, there's better stuff elsewhere, nothing exclusive, and you aren't guaranteed to be interrupted. Why would a PvE player bother with low sec? well except for PvP roams going after pirates, there's plenty of that available in low sec - but that and FW are the only uses for it at present.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.18 20:23:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: The Djego on 18/05/2010 20:39:54
Originally by: Mynxee
How long have you been playing?


4 years

Originally by: Mynxee
Have you ever been in low sec?


Yeah.

Originally by: Mynxee
Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?


From time to time, mostly helping corp mates out. I'm not to bad at plex tanking since I done most of them at least once and know the triggers/tactics. I for myself prefer the Encounters that the onboard scanner gives, since It don't requires a PVE fit, standings, preparations, effort or going back there if you don't have the time or estimate a hostile there. In general I would like more dynamic PVE content over static mission stuff since it fits better in the dynamic concept of low sec.

Originally by: Mynxee
Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?


Unfortunately no. I'm not saying it is to risky in general but most of the rewards beside lucky plex drops are not this great. Like belt hunting with tons of worthless frig/destroyer spawns, extreme low chances of good faction drops from faction spawns or encounters that only give 1-1.5 M in bounties.

If you only get more LP for the Missions and you still need to use the general LP stores it also doesn't adds much over high sec, where you get less but you can do your stuff faster in a full PVE fit. If you have access to LP stores not avid able in high sec it is more reasonable, since it boosts the LP value a lot.

Originally by: Mynxee
Is the risk in low sec over-stated?


Yes, most parts of low sec are pretty empty, so it is not to hard to find a quiet spot to do your thing.

Originally by: Mynxee
What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?


Depends what you define as carebear, if you not ready to risk ships and start to watch your back, probably not. If you are ready for this on the other hand it is not to complicated.

In general make PVE in low sec less static, like good belt drops and tons of fast to play encounters so you can switch systems and keep yourself mobile. Agent missions have a very big drawback, people know where you will be and that you need to come back to finish stuff there or take a penalty for not doing so.

Boost Encounters:
- better rats, better faction drop chance, faster respawns
- doable PVP fitted, be able to MWD around, not insane DPS amounts to tank, doable with the generic short range fits on most Cruiser\BCs\BS
- doable solo in 10-20 Minutes with 7-8 M ISK reward in bounties like the ones we got in 0.2 and below now

Boost Belts:
- add a unique resource to low sec belts, like special tags from the NPCs that can be traded for faction stuff in new LP stores, in general give people a reason to rat in the belts without the need of chaining the hole system
- equalize 0.1 belt rats/ore with the rest, since the risk you take in 0.4 is most of the time higher in the boarder systems
- more faction spawns and better drop rates of faction items, the drop rates are ridicules low compared to 0.0(plus most of the stuff from the low end cruiser or frig spawns isn't worth much)


Rokuro Kensuke
Posted - 2010.05.18 20:29:00 - [40]
 

Quote:
How long have you been playing?


Several years.

Quote:
Have you ever been in low sec?


Obviously! Wink

Quote:
Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?


Yes, but not too often. Missions are a bother.

Quote:
If so, what is the appeal for you?


There is little appeal, unfortunately. Low sec seems to me, mostly a corridor to null sec. And as it is now, it does not really deserve to be anything better.

Quote:
Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?


Yes, in the sense there is little of both. I would like different rewards, and not a bigger pay for the usual missions. I'd like the efforts to either populate or de-populate low sec to have some lasting meaning, for the players investing their time there.

Quote:
Is the risk in low sec over-stated?


Definitely.

Quote:
Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?


I don't think so. Rather, different opportunities are needed.

Quote:
What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )


Making low-sec a place worth investing time and resources into.

I'd like a chance for player-run corporations to 'lease' stations from the NPC corporations, and even temporary sov, from the four empires. Turning a chunk of low sec into their home... Not as comfy as null sec, but also not that hard to properly defend from aggression.

I mean pirates building pirate havens, or carebears having the means to patrol their own little sector of space.

Low-sec would become closer to null-sec, though still firmly tied to empire as renters would still require standing, LP expenses, militia activity, and whatever else to keep their ground. A stepping stone for small corporations into the bigger game.

Quote:
Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?


Yes, I do. Though of the two sides, I think carebears need the most encouragement. With more carebears around, that also makes the pirates' life that much easier and fulfilling...

Kinroi Alari
Gallente
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.05.18 20:37:00 - [41]
 


Before I answer, let me put the bottom line up front Ė if Incarna will be about "going off the net to get something done," then I think the first place it should be fielded after the largest trade hubs is low sec. It fits the low sec "shady activities" idiom and would cause a huge influx of those seeking to immerse themselves in it, as it is without the perceived risk of current low sec ratting, plex running, and missioning.

Originally by: Mynxee
How long have you been playing?


About three years?

Originally by: Mynxee
Have you ever been in low sec?


Just ran through Kamela night before last, I think. I was near Mendori and wanted to shoot and scoop at one of the Sansha invasion events in Ation (yum, free Tachyons!), so I threw Rifter parts in a Buzzard and scooted through. Also, I ran an hours-old eyes-alt through Ostingele to Syndicate last night.

Originally by: Mynxee
Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?


Rarely. I did a fair number of low level Duvolle Labs missions in low sec before the low sec near Heydieles connected to that of Old Man Star. These days I usually prefer high sec or null sec (I was even doing null sec level 1 Intaki Syndicate missions on another eyes-alt last night).

Originally by: Mynxee
If so, what is the appeal for you?


If I ever go back to doing level 5s, it would be for the LP. Otherwise Iíd usually choose null sec or high sec, as noted.

Originally by: Mynxee
If not, why not?


I rat and PVP in tech 1 beaters, often frigates or cruisers. I (often) PVE in rigged Ishtars, Gilas, and the like. Low sec isnít amenable to the latter, and I can make more ISK per hour (or shoot more players without low of security standing) in null sec.

Originally by: Mynxee
Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?


PVE missions and ratting? Not at this time, IMNSHO.

Originally by: Mynxee
Is the risk in low sec over-stated?


For travel? Yes.
For missions, plexing, and ratting? No.
There are some very, very smart and sharp pirates out there. :)
/me salutes.

Originally by: Mynxee
Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?


In some cases; but most mission runners and plexers canít fit for both PVP and PVE, and itís very, very quick to scan someone down these days.

Originally by: Mynxee
What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)


See my introductory note on Incarna. :)

Also, I like how faction warfare sites equalize ship size Ė alas, I havenít been doing FW as my corp is schizophrenic and Iím always operating across all four Empires and out into several low sec and null sec regions.

Originally by: Mynxee
Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?


Possibly? In addition to making it a logical home for Incarna missions, I think that size-limiting plexes like those in FW might attract some mission runners. Though itís hard to compete against plexing in Sov space, or the perceived safety of NPC null secís relative emptiness.

Hope that helps! ^_^

Kinroi Alari
Gallente
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.05.18 20:44:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
Actually, there are several well-known pirate groups that sell "passes" and operate a program something like described above. Many have repeat customers month after month. It works well when the pirate corp is large enough to patrol their stomping grounds effectively and in particular when they adopt a single system or constellation as their home. There aren't, unfortunately, all that many low sec systems with enough mission runners to make it worth investing such effort by most pirates. Edited to add: Like z0de said, having dynamic agent quality based on use might spread things out a bit.


Hmm...
What groups are best known for this?

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.05.18 21:14:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Kinroi Alari
What groups are best known for this?


HellFleet and The Bastards (both of whom I have been associated with) offer a pass program. Some others do as well, I've been told. If you're asking out of interest in buying such a pass, see which pirates are active where you want to mission then chat with their CEO or publicly advertised contacts. If you don't know whether you should trust them, send me an evemail in-game and ask. If I know them and can vouch for them, I will.


Kinroi Alari
Gallente
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.05.18 21:17:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: Kinroi Alari
What groups are best known for this?


HellFleet and The Bastards (both of whom I have been associated with) offer a pass program. Some others do as well, I've been told. If you're asking out of interest in buying such a pass, see which pirates are active where you want to mission then chat with their CEO or publicly advertised contacts. If you don't know whether you should trust them, send me an evemail in-game and ask. If I know them and can vouch for them, I will.



Rock on!

I might just do that; I'd be willing to "pay protection money" for a chance to explore new low sec, and it sounds like a lot less of a pain than Viatoring past gate camps to get to choice null sec.

Arvano
Posted - 2010.05.18 21:27:00 - [45]
 

How long have you been playing?

3 months.

Have you ever been in low sec?

Yes.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

No

If so, what is the appeal for you?

-

If not, why not?

Because the people that live in lowsec are just going to kill me for no reason other than because they can, then justify it by saying "you walked into it" or "don't fly what you yadayadananana".

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

Only if you have the skill/experience to constantly defend yourself from people who want to kill you just because they can.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

No. There are people who spend all day waiting for anybody to jump through so they can kill them, no matter how long that person has been playing, and no matter if he's flying a rookie ship or something like a cruiser.

Thrasymachus TheSophist
Posted - 2010.05.18 21:42:00 - [46]
 

How long have you been playing?
  • A bit over 2 yrs.


Have you ever been in low sec?
  • Yes.


Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
  • No


If not, why not?
  • Because lowsec = getting incessantly bothered by Pirates who want to PvP, while I am trying to run missions or complexes.


Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
  • No - and they never could be. This is the wrong approach.


Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
  • Not at all


Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
  • Its a totally differetn experience. You goto lowsec to PvP. Period. If you want to run missions or complexes, then lowsec pirates are a distraction from your stated objective.


On the rest of it ... If you want to entice people to come to lowsec, the answer cannot be to increase the rewards, b/c then you just get the pirates who live there becoming filthy rich, and the carebears who dont want to PvP, or fit for PvP, or be hassled to constantly watch their scanner or local, they still won't go.

If you want to increase people's willingness to goto lowsec, then I'd suggest a few cahnges:
1. Implants. Make them indestructible. The loss of a ship is one thing, but losing full set of implants hurts a ton and simly isn't worth the risk. On the flip side, I am unwilling to nerf my training by using a JC instead of my main with +5s.
2. Double, or triple, the amount of lowsec space in game. Its simply too crowded. We need more empty space. Encounters should be less common. Presently, you goto lowsec, you're dealing almost constantly with avoiding pirates on local. Its simply not fun if you're not looking for PvP.

Last, I woudl suggest perhaps there is no "fix" needed for lowsec. Perhaps it is good to have a "no mans land" where only the criminals and persons looking to PvP bother to go.

What you are presumably looking for I think is cvoered by Wormholes. Wormholes in many ways address the problem of space adn density, and I think thats why you get folks willing to do WHs over lowsec.

Tallaran Kouros
Cryptonym Sleepers
Posted - 2010.05.18 21:48:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Arazel Chainfire

Yes, it is possible. That being said, pirates are going to have to accept some reductions in their ability to attack the mission runners, else there isn't going to be any reason for that mission runner to come down and join them.



I pretty much agree with this.

The only way to make lowsec more attractive is to publicise the increased rewards (if they exist, else create them if they don't) and somehow nerf the ability of the pirates to attack those that run the missions.

Making the mission runners unscannable is one idea, and perhaps to counter it there could be a new warfare link module for command ships that allows for increased probing strength when in a gang larger than a certain number?

I don't know specifically, but encouraging pirates to work together as a gang in order to get their loot somehow appeals to me rather than leaving it as the open season it is now.

Rebecca Aventine
Posted - 2010.05.18 22:31:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Rebecca Aventine on 18/05/2010 22:34:26
Edited by: Rebecca Aventine on 18/05/2010 22:32:33
Quote:
How long have you been playing?


About a year.

Quote:
Have you ever been in low sec?


I've been living in low and null sec on and off for a few months now.

Quote:
Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?


I run missions and anomalies in fast cloaky ships.

Quote:
If so, what is the appeal for you?


Thrill of taking a risk. Satisfaction in outwitting hostiles. Increased mission rewards.

Quote:
Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?


Not in the least. I could run the same missions in high sec with almost no risk at all. If I am caught in low sec I will face overwhelming force and die quickly.

Quote:
Is the risk in low sec over-stated?


Opinions and low sec regions vary.

Quote:
Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?


Only to a degree. A few guides do already exist such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJsk0BX3JTY which prompted me to go exploring. However many players are perfectly comfortable running low risk activites thank you very much.

Quote:
What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)


The primary danger for a mission runner is getting scanned. A clear warning that informed the player of combat probes scanning them would encourage players in slower less agile ships to come play in low sec.

Quote:
Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?


Examing the ratio of kills vs escapes of real predator/prey interactions in the natural world, one quickly finds that in balanced populations the prey must be able to evade the predator in the majority of encounters. In theory it should be possible to balance low sec mechanics to produce similar results.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.05.18 22:40:00 - [49]
 

How long have you been playing?

Since 2006

Have you ever been in low sec?

Yes and 'lived' for long periods.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

Missions :Not as a rule no. Complexes yes a bit more so.

If not, why not?

I find most of the pre generated missions pretty dull. At least with the exploration based sites there is an element of variety and theyre more a case of "craft your own mission" - if that makes any sense?

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

By this I think you mean 'do you make enough ISK?' then probably not, but then Low Sec offers different 'rewards' such as the satisfaction of surviving outside of the blanket of high sec space.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

No, its still a dangerous area, but its tremendously variable: a system that's lethal at 10pm might be completely benign an hour later.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

Not really. One of the great things about low sec is its where you typically first go to to 'get savvy'. Its something really only learnt through experience.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )

More immersive missions based around the criminal aspect of EVE, bounty hunting, smuggling.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

I don't think the answer should be based around carebears or non carebears: make low sec an interesting place to enter and players will come. Trying to make it more or less like null sec or empire completely misses the point.

C.


Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2010.05.18 23:10:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 18/05/2010 23:14:29
How long have you been playing?

~1.5 year

Have you ever been in low sec?

yes lol

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

have in the past in Khanid, Citadel and Devoid

If so, what is the appeal for you?

appeal was more isk/lp than high sec while not having to move my character in and out of high sec to engage in pvp/pve whenever I like

If not, why not?

I now just running 2 mission runner in high sec. I find the rewards not enough to compensate me having scan for probe every few second if a hostile enters system.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

I did not feel fairly compensated for having to pump the scanner every few seconds. I guess it would be different if use unprobeable t3 ship but I was use CNR and Dominix.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
No...everyone going to kill you. I guess in T3 ship you are fairly safe but battleship you need alt always scout you.

Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2010.05.18 23:31:00 - [51]
 


How long have you been playing?
Just under 2 years.

Have you ever been in low sec?
Yes

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
Yes, mainly plexes.

If so, what is the appeal for you?
Aside from the danger, getting lucky and finding some really nice drops.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
Yes and no. To a miner, HELL NO. To mission runners, mostly no. I would not take a faction fitted PVE BS ship down their to run Lvl 4. I would however take a T2 frigate to run down a quick Lvl 1 or 2 mission but not because of some temptation of better rewards, I just don't want to decline the mission.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
Again, yes and no. When I first started playing the rumors around the campfire made me quite scared to enter, until I checked it out myself. I was surprised so many systems were pretty dead and the deeper I went the quieter it got. On the other hand some systems have 7/24 gangs camping and roaming which make them a pretty serious threat. To many carebears though it only takes one gank and they stay away.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
Only if there was some way to reach the masses. Meaning people who NEVER read these forums, even then I don't know what percent of them would bother. Mission runners spend big bucks on their pimped out ships, which they want to use but there is no way they can take those down to lowsec. If you want to understand the L4 missions runner, when (lol, if) your elected into CSM have CCP gather some data. Average account age of a L4 mission runner, alt?, ships lost, average weekly income, expenses, NPC corp or 1-man Corp, etc. Profile those suckers and see if you find some common traits.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )

See below.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

Miners (in numbers), forget it, so that's one large carebear group you can cross off. Other industrial players, yes, if it something they can get in and grab and get out and not linger about. Mission runners, yes, IF the rewards are much better but they could use PVP ships to complete and the AI acted differently. Instead of CCP designing new level 1-4 missions geared for just lowsec they could build a series for just level 4. Instead of the biggest badest BS to compete they would need to use faster more agile ships. The AI would respond to new threats, even if someone has room aggro. Most importantly the mission could be completed in cheaper hulls with good rewards. On a plus side to a pirate, the AI would not target them if they have good standing with that particular NPC corp. If you want people down there, cheaper ships to complete with good rewards.

Lowsec has very little pull. On one side you have big sister (nullsec) and on the other is baby sister (hisec). Lowsec is just the middle brat (Marsha!, Marsha!, Marsha!). Nullsec has it's moons and with proper upgrades kick ass sites and belts. Hisec has it's security. Lowsec?.... Even WH's have a there niche, sleeper tech. Lowsec is meant to be for the outlaw but unless youíre an actual outlaw what else does it offer? Lowsec needs it's own exclusive resource that will draw people from the other corners of Eve. PI might have worked but it seems the devs are going back to the same nullsec gets the great stuff, hisec gets the meh and Lowsec just gets what's in between the two. Maybe when CCP start to consider Tech III frigates they might create an exclusive NPC (or PI element) for lowsec but coupled with something else. Meaning Tech III alone would not be enough, it would provide a good draw but it would need something else to go along with it. In the end Marsha (lowsec) needs some exclusive content and resources the other sec's of space need.

Good luck with your search for answers. BTW, great interview on Unknown EVE!


Asrod
Posted - 2010.05.18 23:49:00 - [52]
 

I have now been playing for about a year now. While i have "visited" low sec it has mostly been becouse of my curiosety and wanting to see what the fuzz is all about.
I have never done any missions in low sec nor have i done any plexes there.

The reason for me not running any missions there are for me atleast quite obvious. I like so many others, read the forums and see "horror " stories, people "enjoying tears " and ofc the whole pve fit vs pvp fit.

Mynxee let me fist say i think its great that you actually take the time to post here and ask. To me personally its a big step forward. As so many CSM candidates seems to just want " more pew pew for low sec " - - "nerf lvl 4 missions"


The risk vs reward question atm is not realy a question.
As it has been said earlier the mechanics dont allow me to get into a mission, tank " what ever " and then be jumped by a pirate.
I enjoy pve alot, but i dont enjoy pve and pvp at the same time.

Mynxee i think you will find most carebears, abselutely not afraid to loose a ship, or for that matter get podded. But when one are fighting lets say sansha, one are fitting the ship vs EM/thermal. leaving ( and here i am revealing myself as not beeing experienced pvp player at all ) kinetic and explosive wide open.

So just becouse one fits for a mission, this alone does not makes up for the risk involved. No LP or ISK is going to make me say : " aha 20 million, well then, thats another story "
The "reward " would have to be stupid high, before somone is going to take their mission ship inn to low sec. And that would also be wrong!

I have spendt far, far to littel time in low sec to comment if the risk in low sec over-stated. It might be.

On we go then with the ideas:
A few things i think would make me go into low sec would be: If the "pirate" needed to "hack" my gate, to get into my mission place.
Today when we highsec dwellers are beeing visited by ninja salvagers, its basecly the same. They find a mission runner----go through the gate----get proffit.

Ok fine, this is the mechanics for now, so we have to live with it. But what if the pirate would have to actually hack the gate so he could enter aswell?

Again this is from a carebear point of view

Pros : He would have to use a midslot = less ewar there,( or whatever one chose to use there ) leading to having to make some sort of similar choices as a mission runner.

I would also like to see the sec status beeing affected in some ways in low sec. I think most know what happens when one have low sec status. But some of use actually enjoy having 5+ sec status. ( especially since one can only do those missions once )
I have far to littel experience in low sec and 0,0 to comment on the mechanics down there. So i just leave it as an idea hanging in the air.

Sitting at a gate camp for hours iam sure many find good fun. But if a Pirate have a negative standing, i think mabe there should be some sort of timer " how long, one can just sit there "

To me the whole idea seems abit silly.

" there is a pirate sitting by the gate Mike "
" no worries, he is just waiting for a kill "
" But Mike, should we not mabe shoot him ? After all he is a known pirate with even a bounty on his head "
"no, go make muffins"
" mike ? "
" yes? "
" he shot someone Mike ! "
" good lord, how dare he? Shoot him! "


I think if one could hire some pirates, or even hire just some pvp people for protection. Most people would get what they want.
The mission runner gets his mission done. The pvper and the pirate would get some action. Win, win and win.

Iam sorry for my english as its not my main language.

Good luck on the CSM run


Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2010.05.19 00:07:00 - [53]
 

OP has good solid questions.

TLDR
Most people seem to be saying the number one concern with low sec mission/plexes is saftey. I agree wholeheartedly. No saftey while earning isk is the problem.

I am approaching 90mil skillpoints, so I've been around for a while.

I go from low-sec to hi-sec and back all the time. I've spent over a year in 0.0 and left do to boredom.

I dont do normal missions in low-sec or hi-sec, because my faction fit loot pinata is not safe do to probe mechanics and how easily/quickly I can be scanned down and ganked.

There is no appeal to do normal missions in a slow boating loot pinata. Scan probes scan out mission runners long before they get their missions done. Combat probes scan out player ships in plexes in 2 minutes even when it can take a player 15 minutes to use scan probes to find the inital plex ( no logic with that what-so-ever ). I am currently having fun with single objective lvl 4 faction warefare missions.

Rewards in low-sec are fine. Its not about rewards, but about saftey while trying to get those rewards.

The risk in low sec varies. Can it be a death trap? Yup, sure. Can it be boring as hell? Yup, sure.

Educating people change things? Nope. I'm experienced and know a deathtrap when I see one.

Number one change? Saftey. Increase saftey in the normal missions/plexes. Thats all that is needed. The increased rewards are already there in low-sec.

Mission saftey thats been proposed is a change back to what used to be normal years ago for missions and pirates/runners coexisted just fine with plenty of pew pew for both sides.

Low-sec Molden Heath used to have 70 people in hedaleofarber, 50 in both istodard and half. Thats 170 in low-sec within 2 jumps of one another. Then probe changes happened, runners started losing their loot pinatas, which in turn cost them their ability to make isk. So they left.

Oh, and Molden Heath used to have MH-Sec security channel that was allowed the runners to coordinate and pew pew the pies. That disappeared when the runners ability to make isk disappeared which caused a lot of the pew pew to disappear.

Mesh Marillion
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2010.05.19 00:27:00 - [54]
 

How long have you been playing? since 07, took one year long break

Have you ever been in low sec? i live there for almost one year now.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec? did some missions in a secured deadend system and still run sites in low sec

If so, what is the appeal for you? i like explorations, for missions it was mainly the resulting LP and the quality of missions availible (4 or 5 max quality L4 agents)

If not, why not? stopped running missions because any potential gains is offset by the compromises and risks while missionrunning - especially if you run a pimped marauder like I prefer to do.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk? prolly not, at least not for mission running. explorations is a bit more difficult because gatecamps in low sec tend to be less dangerous, you will almost never lose a covops for example unless some *** runs a smartbombing camp.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated? depends on where you operate and how well you know the region. I'd say its mostly on spot for newbs.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there? Don't know. If you're risk averse to a point where you're willing to give up 10-20 % income for almost immunity against gangs, then no. And speaking economically, those people are probably right.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile) Complexes are fine, I guess, perhaps close the gap between nullsec and lowsec plexes a bit. For missions perhaps a redesign like CCP did for the pirate arcs - speedboat missions. Or increase the gap further to offset the difference between the killing speed of a pimped high sec marauder to a plain low sec low cost setup.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not? Probably not. Given the rather risk averse nature of most mission runners they will quit low sec after losing their first expensive ship. If they come back, most pirates tend to grief them to the point that they have to leave simply for economic reasons. I've seen it happen in Aridia, when we arrived there and it might happen in the Vestouve area as well.

Some final words: almost nobody in our alliance earns money through low sec missions. Some do explorations (especially in nullsec though), some have an alt in W-Space. Then there are folks with industrial alts or like me, high sec mission runners. This in itself might be an indicator that the risk vs reward situation for L4 missions in low sec could be improved. For a lot of those who have avoided lowsec until now, i guess even if L4 agents were to be banned from high sec, they'd still stay there and grind L3s then.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2010.05.19 01:25:00 - [55]
 

My brothers sisters cousins roommate says that the moment you go into low sec, your ship explodes and pirates laugh at you while they take your stuff.





Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2010.05.19 02:12:00 - [56]
 

So, I'm also standing for CSM, but and I think I tend to have a lot in common with Mynxee's desire to make low-sec a vastly more enjoyable place.


Quote:
How long have you been playing?

2 years

Quote:
Have you ever been in low sec?

Been there lots, mostly passing through, but I tried living there with a low skill alt I was training up.

Quote:
Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

Only if I can run them in a small ship with low scan sig or if the system is really quiet and offers opportunities for GTFO & laying low.

Quote:
If so, what is the appeal for you?

More scan sigs, better rats, but still easy meat for a cruiser. For missions I find that it's the fastest way to clear through a block of level 1 missions for staning gain with the parent corp before moving to more difficult missions in a more threat free environment.

Quote:
Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

Generally not, although the equation works well for low level missions, harder missions require ships that are too easy to scan down.

Quote:
Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

Absolutely, my 5 year old daughter runs frigates through low-sec and hasn't encountered a problem yet. My last low-sec loss was to a disco battleship, and that would have been preventable if I'd paid attention.

Quote:
Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

No, more education would merely highlight the increase in reward does not match the increase in risk.

Quote:
What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)

Unique content only available in low-sec, that matches or exceeds the risk-reward profile of level 4 missions. Which either means stupidly high rewards for missions run by big fat easy to scan down ships (i.e. level 5 missions), or good rewards for small agile low sig ships. Or... something else entirely


Quote:
Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

Absolutely, although I imagine 'profit' is a somewhat hazy term when applied to PVP piracy.

Excrucio Pax
Minmatar
Space Lobsters
Posted - 2010.05.19 04:51:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Excrucio Pax on 19/05/2010 05:10:39
How long have you been playing?

- About 2 years

Have you ever been in low sec?

- I moved to lowsec permanently about 6 months ago. I play solo in a one man corp, that's all I'm interested in at the moment.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

- Yes, L4s/5s and complexes. I use a Loki or Tengu for all of it, cloaked or unprobeable.

If so, what is the appeal for you?

- I enjoy trying outwit the pirates trying to gank me. I've lost a few Lokii but am learning more about how lowsec and how pirates work. I'm beginning to PVP solo in the Loki, that's a challange. :) I don't do it for the money.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

- L5's probably, you can earn 70-100m per mission. L4's no, the rewards are about half what they should be. Complexes are if you get the right ones, but they are far and few between.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

- No, it's dangerous. Demands much more concentration to stay alive. Being unprobeable makes doing missions time effective but it's an expensive loss. At peak times I'll be probed everytime I go out (that doesn't sound good). Luckly I live in the most isolated city in the world so in my timezone when I usually play its quiet.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

- No, it's not difficult, easy to teach yourself. Some people are just too lazy to concentrate that hard.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic.)

- Boost the L4 rewards somewhat, not too much. Also I would like to see it become a little more dangerous for pirates while giving them their PVP: fix the bounty system, transferrable kill rights, perhaps the ability to get a contract from Concord to hunt any outlaw and be rewarded (haven't thought these through at all, just random thoughts).

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

- Yes, because changes always have an impact +/-. Its just a matter of finding the right changes.

Anyway, my 2c.

Dreed Roberts
Posted - 2010.05.19 04:56:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Mynxee
I have very little experience running missions, so the feedback from you much more knowledgeable folks about them relative to low sec is very enlightening. More, please!



Well that is kind of the problem right there. Perhaps you should go run some missions.

as for risk mitigation F that! its still rock, scissors ... making it harder to probe out a mission simply means that we die less often. It doesn't give you a real chance of surviving an actual encounter......oh wait hang on that is EVE's whole combat philosophy. Attack something that can't effectively fight back.

'bears fight rats, pirates fight 'bears .... be nice if rats pawned pirates.

I remember reading about a bit of an sulk/emo moment you had on your blog Mynxee where you fought a thorax with ECM drones and got pawned. I believe he contracted back your dropped mods.

Pity your average gate camping smart bombing griefbear (opps I mean honourable pirate) always contracts back the mods that dropped after they kill you... or did I get that confused?

My point being that you get your **** back in a situation where you had a chance in an arranged duel, you had a chance to fit properly you didn't take it on that occasion. Mission runners a) are not involved in consensual combat and b) do not have an opportunity to fit properly.

perhaps if all low sec rats get sleeper AI I would consider mission running.


anyway enough ranting and on with the questions.
How long have you been playing?
two years...I think

Have you ever been in low sec?
Regularly...bit of solo pvp before it got bloby and a bit of careful exploration.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
complexes and profession sites.

If so, what is the appeal for you?
Shinies....things that I cannot get anywhere else...if I could I would. There is a certain appeal (for me) to fit ships with items that I have found/made.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
Not really, if I was being hard nosed and purely profit driven I would never venture in there. However the risk isn't getting blown up (for me) the risk is having to safe up/cloak up and wait for the interlopers to pass on and effectively waste my play session. Having to PvE fit means that I must avoid all contact with non friendlies.
Do this in an exploration site and pop...it despawns and I get punished for taking appropriate precautions. I go into the site with a PvP fit and I can't make money; catch 22.


Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
The risk of getting blown up? Yeah. Proper piloting will keep you alive. Proper piloting will prevent costly losses, proper piloting wont make you rich, it just prevents avoidable losses.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

Nope. Risk mitigation is not the answer. We need a pirate counter module. You need to be able to actively defend against a pirate, while earning money.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )

Nerf the godamn scanning strength of normal probes...then boost the skills. Make it such that its actually hard to find things and requires the skills (character) to do so, current system is a bit silly that any clown/alt with 3 days training has all the skills needed to probe out a mission runner. Give me missions/complexes that don't require active tanks and mega sustainable DPS.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

No. Because pirates are renown for killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, and that is the pirates forget about the other 95% of the griefbear lowsec population. other stuff about PVE v's PvP no space left.



Rothrin
Posted - 2010.05.19 05:52:00 - [59]
 

Ok i played a long enough while to have a clue.

Cant really answer all the questions, but i think theirs a long term fix and a short term fix.

Long term fix is to put more level 5 agents in high sec and make them a lot harder, so they need 5-10 players, to get people used to playing in fleets.

Put new level 6 agents in low sec, needing fleets of 15-20 people, you can see where the progression comes from.

Thats a long term fix that might take 6 months before larger mission runner squads get brave.

But i think the pirates dont really want large fleets to tangle with, so the short term fix.

Short term fix does not involve missions at all and its far more simple to implement, then messing with mission stuff. Very easy just make the belt rat's in lo sec much better, they would atract the single pve players the pirates so crave. And if the player gets enough money from it to negate the lose,then they will go.

As for lo sec dangers, you can go for 6 months and not get a single attack or you can have 5 attacks in 2 days in diff area's, just the joys of war.

steejans nix
Amarr
Black Core Federation
Posted - 2010.05.19 06:40:00 - [60]
 

How long have you been playing?
3 years

Have you ever been in low sec?

Yes

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
no

If so, what is the appeal for you?
-

If not, why not?
Why should i take a pve ship into a pvp enviroment where stand no chance against even a cruiser in the mission unless the cruiser a noob, I either plex/mission in high sec or 0.0 sec, risk V's reward etc seems more balanced.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
Probably not but there isn't a great deal of risk as long as you keep an eye out and be sensible, and do not fly anything bigger than a cruiser hull solo, it's just the rewards are hard to find there as the earning potential is generally crap anyway.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
Definately

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
Maybe, but it is the mindset of the players which need to change, both the hhigh sec and low sec dwellers.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )
The risk and reward side needs to be changed in some way (no idea how) but atm ALL the risk is on the mission runner/miner etc but none at all is on the people who live there and are looking for targets to kill.

Pirate's have everything stacked in there favour, all pve'ers have is a few weak gate guns.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

Nope. Mainly because pirates want easy risk free ganks with an odd decent fight here and there but generally it isn't pvp they want but ganks.

One thing i think they could do is revamp the gate guns etc, give them a bit more AI, attack the weakest gcc target, focus fire instead of cycling targets, maybe add a few local navy npc's elite frigs to the mix with some scrams and ewar etc, killable but with a bit of hp so they not be insta popped.
Fine the pirates want to sit on a gate and tank the guns but give them the knowledge that they maybe get scrammed, nueted, tracking distrupted, damped or jammed while doing so, lets balance out this risk versus reward side a bit so pirates risk something.


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