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blankseplocked [Proposal] Open POS lab slot to the public
 
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.18 11:45:00 - [1]
 

In EVE there is a problem with the availability of ME and PE research slots for the general public.

At the same time POS labs often have available research ME and PE slots that aren't used.

As it as already been suggested in the past it would be very useful to upgrade the POS laboratories functionality opening those slots to the general public for a fee.

Probably programming this feature would be difficult, but it will open a new player managed market (renting research slots) with healthy competition, something that is always welcome in EVE.

On a relate note, it would be nice to find a solution for the old problem with copy and invention slots that can't be shared outside the corporation, but as it is apparently a programming nightmare I am not including it in the main proposal.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.18 11:53:00 - [2]
 

self support

Mkah Mvet
Duolith Systems
Posted - 2010.05.18 13:23:00 - [3]
 

Sounds good in theory except for when your enemies or competitors fill up all your labs with long-term jobs and then cancel them, leaving your labs shut down and their BPOs safe and available for their own personal use. The proposal is good and I would support it if it were modified to cover as many eventualities as possible.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.05.18 13:29:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: De''Veldrin on 18/05/2010 13:35:25
I think the problem with copy and invention is that you have to have access to the hangars on the labs themselves. This isn't a requirement for standard research if you have the appropriate skills (Scientific Networking, IIRC).


That said, you do not even need to have access to the physical POS itself in order to use the ME & PE research slots contained on it as long as you possess the requisite skills. I, for one, would love to be able to rent out research slots to the public.

As a possible solution to the problem with invention and copying, you could make the lab accept materials from the user's personal hangar, as long as it was in the same system (if you need an RP explanation, say robotic drones carry the material out to the lab and bring back the finished results). But I agree with Venkul that should be a separate proposal.

tl;dr: Supporting the OP's main idea - letting us rent out ME & PE slots to the public.

Edit:
Originally by: Mkah Mvet
Sounds good in theory except for when your enemies or competitors fill up all your labs with long-term jobs and then cancel them, leaving your labs shut down and their BPOs safe and available for their own personal use. The proposal is good and I would support it if it were modified to cover as many eventualities as possible.


You could allow POS's with public slots to charge a cancellation fee, and then set it ridiculously high. So even if they do this, they're paying through the nose to do it.

Another possibility would be to fix the slots so they actually release when the job is cancelled (which, IMO, is the way they should have been in the first place). Or, alternatively, to hold the BPO until the slot is released or until the lab is taken offline.

Also, at least in the case of our corporation, we'd probably reserve at least one or two of the labs strictly for corporate use. So even if they fill up the public labs, we still have our own slots that we weren't renting out anyway.

MinSebsis
Minmatar
Steel Hammer Industry

Posted - 2010.05.18 16:35:00 - [5]
 

I strongly support this Proposal, I am always looking for slots.

Freyr Ashen
the Organ Grinder and Company
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:46:00 - [6]
 


Komi Toran
Posted - 2010.05.18 17:13:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Mkah Mvet
Sounds good in theory except for when your enemies or competitors fill up all your labs with long-term jobs and then cancel them, leaving your labs shut down and their BPOs safe and available for their own personal use. The proposal is good and I would support it if it were modified to cover as many eventualities as possible.


Not sure why this would be a problem, as they are still paying for those slots for that time anyway, so it certainly wouldn't hurt the corp that made them available. Second, if you get a lab that's full of canceled jobs, you can always unanchor and re-anchor the lab (not sure if you also need to repackage it...), and all those slots will be freed again.

That said, I'm not supporting this, as it would make lowsec even less worthwhile than it is now. Long wait times for research act as a good reason for researchers to seek out lowsec and have their corps erect a POS out there.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.05.18 17:53:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Komi Toran

That said, I'm not supporting this, as it would make lowsec even less worthwhile than it is now. Long wait times for research act as a good reason for researchers to seek out lowsec and have their corps erect a POS out there.


Speaking from experience, that's not entirely accurate - at least not since the introduction of wormholes. I think a lot of corps would probably risk Class 1 WH space before they tried lowsec, simply because it limits the size of the ships an attacking force can bring in to bash your POS. It is, potentially, safer that high sec (a la no battleships), unless someone is actually building ships inside the wormhole.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.18 18:43:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Mkah Mvet
Sounds good in theory except for when your enemies or competitors fill up all your labs with long-term jobs and then cancel them, leaving your labs shut down and their BPOs safe and available for their own personal use. The proposal is good and I would support it if it were modified to cover as many eventualities as possible.


Well, for starter your enemy would pay for the privilege of shutting down part of your service, secondarily you don't need to make all the slots available to the general public.

Remember that not only your POS slot will be used up but the enemy character science slot would be used, too.

I think that people shutting down POSes would be a bigger problem than enemies filling your lab slots.

My opinion is that if the laboratory owner shut down the POS/lab the job should be immediately canceled and the fee refunded.

If the job owner stop was the one to stop the job he should get no refund instead.



Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.05.18 18:51:00 - [10]
 

CSM1 asked for this to happen, if I'm not mistaken, and CCP said no. The POS mechanics simply don't allow it, and as with all POS changes, CCP is deathly afraid to touch the code. So as much as I'd like this to happen, it won't.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.18 19:12:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CSM1 asked for this to happen, if I'm not mistaken, and CCP said no. The POS mechanics simply don't allow it, and as with all POS changes, CCP is deathly afraid to touch the code. So as much as I'd like this to happen, it won't.



I think it was about the copy/invention slots.

I know that the POS code is the problem, for that reason I have limited the main proposition to ME and PE research.

Seeing hot that part of the POS labs function can be shared with other people I think that the functionality can be extended to more people.


To make the changes to the code as limited as possible it will probably require players to be in a corporation and to have a hangar in system.

An update from CCP, even saying "it is not feasible" would be useful.


Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.18 20:34:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 18/05/2010 20:33:59
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CSM1 asked for this to happen, if I'm not mistaken, and CCP said no. The POS mechanics simply don't allow it, and as with all POS changes, CCP is deathly afraid to touch the code. So as much as I'd like this to happen, it won't.


I think every CSM has asked CCP to change POSes in some significant way. My fingers are crossed that they eventually get the message.

EDIT: support.

Verys
I Heart Chaos

Posted - 2010.05.18 20:54:00 - [13]
 

To not open a can of worms to actually see this happen I'd like it to be based upon standings.

The idea I certainly like.

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2010.05.19 00:37:00 - [14]
 

Many broken things in industry that would need to be redesigned and fixed before this would become possible.

I believe it was intended but then a structure was used without foresight,
which locked out most of the future possibilities and hamstrung industry.


Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.05.19 04:11:00 - [15]
 

Supported for ME/PE that doesn't require physical access to the POS (similar to Alliance).

As far as having someone lock up all your ME/PE slots and cancelling the job is concerned, this is actually a money spinner. All your labs are rented! That's exactly what you want. Even better, if all the jobs are cancelled, you simply repackage the lab and open them up again - you get paid double. You get the ISK they put into the jobs the first time - there are no refunds if you cancel - AND you get to rent the labs out a second time. Even if they got smart and kept one active job in the lab - it's still fully rented which was what I wanted in the first place.

Cancel as many jobs as you like, I'll happily repackage the lab if you've cancelled all of your jobs and then I'll re-rent the lab slots. (meanwhile the labs that are not publicly rented are churning out my personal research for free).

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2010.05.19 07:12:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Even better, if all the jobs are cancelled, you simply repackage the lab and open them up again
....
Cancel as many jobs as you like



I may be wrong but it seems this is at the heart of the problem.

Without the Factory Manager role and the ability to cancel *all* corp jobs,
a user does not seem to have the ability to cancel their own jobs as a result
of the database structure used. Once a user loses Factory Manager they are
unable to cancel their own jobs for corp. It would appear this wasn't foreseen
and may have been broken when installations had queues added.

A redesign of the core of industry will likely result in all these issues being easier to fix.


Omega Flames
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2010.05.24 01:05:00 - [17]
 


Random MonDistinct
Minmatar
Alternative Innovations
Unknown and Beyond
Posted - 2010.05.25 01:40:00 - [18]
 

Good Idea.
Supported.

Garthmanx
The 3 Roids Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.25 14:41:00 - [19]
 

Nice idea... i could wait for them to recode it if they have too Very Happy

colonel mode
The Demi-Fallen Ones

Posted - 2010.05.26 10:51:00 - [20]
 


Maewei Balducci
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:12:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CSM1 asked for this to happen, if I'm not mistaken, and CCP said no. The POS mechanics simply don't allow it, and as with all POS changes, CCP is deathly afraid to touch the code. So as much as I'd like this to happen, it won't.


well it was some time ago...it may be more simplier now
and it cost nothing to say them we really want it.
that's a new market using existing things, so it's a good idea.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.05.26 13:20:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Maewei Balducci
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CSM1 asked for this to happen, if I'm not mistaken, and CCP said no. The POS mechanics simply don't allow it, and as with all POS changes, CCP is deathly afraid to touch the code. So as much as I'd like this to happen, it won't.


well it was some time ago...it may be more simplier now
and it cost nothing to say them we really want it.
that's a new market using existing things, so it's a good idea.


I agree with this sentiment. We can at least ask. It's been, by my count, 2 years since CSM 1. And while I doubt the code has gotten simpler, it does tie into the "Put more of the market into player hands" manifesto.

General Escobar
Caldari
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2010.07.13 14:51:00 - [23]
 

This deserves a Bump!

Iltarus Almondis
Posted - 2010.07.13 18:58:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Iltarus Almondis on 13/07/2010 18:59:28
If the "cancel"-Problem is solved, I fully support the idea.

Kordel Trask
Posted - 2010.07.14 04:15:00 - [25]
 

Supported


 

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