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blankseplocked Absolutions vs Damnnation
 
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Kara Corvinus
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.05.14 01:06:00 - [1]
 

well ive finally finished large pulse spec lvl 4, and am pretty happy with my battleships skills.

so now, having the abilty to T2 pretty much any amarrian ship, playing arround with HACS / RECONS ive decided to go command ships, the trouble is theres a 1 day training time differnce between the two of them so im not sure which one to go for.

The intended role =

im a carebear. so the main aim of this ship will be to boost fleet in missions, and most likely RR'ing the tanker.
i would like to be in the mission, not sitting outside a station, so survivability is a must.
dps isnt "that" important. im fairly happy to put t2 pulses on a damnnation. especially as i have 1.6k sp in missiles.

Not needed but would be nice =
The abilty to solo tank an l4 with ease ( liek dual rep abby standards ), as i often find myself with newer players in bc's ect, would be nice if every now and then i could tank, fleet boost, then start shouting commands at them in a ever so abusive manner.

~~~~

i literally know zilch about command ships, ive grouped with one abso before and i wasnt that impressed with the pilot lol. so your input would be greatly appreciated, possible builds ect would also be nice, but please above all give reasoning to why youd pick one over the other, im here to learn not steal your ideas ;)


Sun'Tzu Yin
Gallente
Wreckage Reclamation Enforcement Consortium
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2010.05.14 01:40:00 - [2]
 

The Damnation is the tanking queen, it suffers from short range(HAM), low dps (HAM or worse Heavy), and requires a cap booster to dual rep. Having said this, the Damnation has resources available for a full rack of weapons AND gang boost mods. The Absolution is the prom queen with quickly adaptable range through laser crystals, it can dual-rep but it is short resources for gang mods after all this.

In summary, the Damnation needs a gang to run missions efficiently, the Abso can solo just fine, and is short on gang boost resources after an otherwise full-fit. Either one can be left in a level 4 mission with its tank on while you got to lunch tank-wise.

P.S. In my experience both are less efficient at PVE than their Caldari counterparts which are just another 3 weeks training away.

Kara Corvinus
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.05.14 01:48:00 - [3]
 

ty for the speedy reply.

regarding caldari, they maybe be better but its alot more then an extra 3 weeks, i have 1.6k sp in missiles, just the core basics of shield to give my amarr ships that little bit extra ect,

would be a month or two extra before i could pilot one to the effeciency i could personally fly an amarrian command.

also as a personal preference above stats, i intend to be able to fly / fit all sub cap amarr ships before i venture into other races.

-----

i think your reasoning for the damnation probably sounds best towards the needs im after.
short range can be a plus especially if in a gang, for picking off those scram frigs ect.
lots of tank + fleet bonuses, sounds ideal to me, and you mentioned the utility values which again, as i mentioned i would probably be RR'ing, would be helpfull.

Thank you again.

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2010.05.14 03:59:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kara Corvinus
ty for the speedy reply.

regarding caldari, they maybe be better but its alot more then an extra 3 weeks, i have 1.6k sp in missiles, just the core basics of shield to give my amarr ships that little bit extra ect,

would be a month or two extra before i could pilot one to the effeciency i could personally fly an amarrian command.

also as a personal preference above stats, i intend to be able to fly / fit all sub cap amarr ships before i venture into other races.

-----

i think your reasoning for the damnation probably sounds best towards the needs im after.
short range can be a plus especially if in a gang, for picking off those scram frigs ect.
lots of tank + fleet bonuses, sounds ideal to me, and you mentioned the utility values which again, as i mentioned i would probably be RR'ing, would be helpfull.

Thank you again.


U won't be RRing in a Damnation...the bonuses from ur warfare links (at least the active tank + resist two are gread for PvE) are good enough, plus, there is no need to RR the "tanker" of the mission, as u will be by far the best choice for tanking the rooms! And no need for crazy setups...single reps with proper resist mods can hold a Damnation against hard plexes...lvl 4s are a joke.

DPS projection might be low compared to an Abso (in which u could always hop in for variety, tho nothing beats a good skilled BS / Marauder in the long run, at least no turret boat), but you will make up some of that loss with dmg selectivity, range and cap-less nature of missiles.

NoNah
Posted - 2010.05.14 04:54:00 - [5]
 

Unless you have the skills for them already, I'd say neither, just get a legion. It does everything the other two does, but better.

As for the actual ships, the only reason to use an absolution is the damage. If you don't need/want/care about it - by all means go with the damnation. That said, if you don't care about the damage, why bring the ship into mission at all? Especially not if the legion is an option as making one of those unprobable is childs play.

I'd probably but the resistance ganglink on an absolution and be happy with that. As you get more damage output you will compensate for the lost tank(from the damnation) with the extra damage from the absolution. Worst case you can always use command processors and put more of them on, for example rep rate and resistance - you won't get the 3 and/or 5% bonuses of the damnation or legion however.

Zahhadune
Amarr
Crimson Shield Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.14 23:52:00 - [6]
 

Nonah is right. I would just train up and use a legion, with all the subsytem skills at 3 you become very effective, a month later they are all at 5 and your tank will be un-breakable and dps is decent. If you want to group and or pvp a bit i would roll with the abso. Great dps , good tank and resist boost.

Legion
PROS: Extreme tank, you can fit this to tank over 1k omni dps, rat specific im sure you can have resists in the 90's. DPS is decent around 3-400. Also with the legion once you pop the frigs that web you, you pretty much just speed tank. with a t2 afterburner i they wouldnt even get into my tank.
CONS: Really small cargo hold. Watch out for ganks, people love to kill tech3. DPS you can fit a t1 cruiser to do more dps.

Absolution
PROS: Tank is basically the same as the legion maybe a tad bit less. DPS is twice that of the legion. You can also use 5 warrior2's. GangLink mods... Can bring another 5% resist to the field. More cargo and finally I think the Absolution might be the prettiest ship, I call it the fat chicken, but the details are great.

CONS: Expensive and costly to fit, as faction/deadspace mods are needed to be really effective.

MWDrive
Posted - 2010.05.15 01:31:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: MWDrive on 15/05/2010 01:32:15
Originally by: Zahhadune
PROS: ...DPS...
CONS:...DPS...
:)

damnation is usefull if you want to give nice bonuses but dont want to stay out of fight. legion with 3 links is kinda useless (as i said, if you want to stay in fight and not on ss). besides, damnation is still a lot cheaper than legion... and with tyrannis youll be getting some insurance...

edit: hm, thread is about lvl4... yeah damnation is usless :)

Koronos
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.05.15 15:41:00 - [8]
 

Damnation. For what you want the 3 ganglinks are nice, and no point in gimping an absolution or legion to fit that. Don't worry about rring the tanker. You're the tanker. Damnation has one of the sickest tanks in game. Don't worry about your missile skills, assume for all practical purposes that you have 0 dps, since that will be close enough to correct regardless. Go ahead and fit a couple heavy launchers for drawing aggro and pretending that you are contributing offensively so you don't get bored.

With this you can let your gangmates focus on dps and just fit enough tank if they accidentally draw some aggro, which the gangbonuses will help. Also, if I'm remembering right the damnation training should set you up nicely for logistics.

gl hf

Morgassana
Habius Corpus Delicti
Dead Space inc Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.16 01:47:00 - [9]
 

To even fly a Damnation, you must first have Logistics IV :)
tbqh, the posters further up are quite correct about Damnations sick tank
w/ all 3 armor links, and a mindlink too boot, you are talking about an easy 100-300k ehp, especially if you
go for the HG Slaves, hell w/ low grade Slaves you'll still easily punch thru 100k+

of the 4 fleet commmand vessels, the Vulture/Damnation/Claymore are by far way more
popular than the dead horse Eos

Noisrevbus
Posted - 2010.05.16 02:11:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Noisrevbus on 16/05/2010 02:23:07

The only problem for the OP, is that to give the Damnation justice: He doesn't need another couple of weeks of training - he needs another couple of months (assuming he has little to no leadership skills as a young empire PvE-player focused on the tank/spank basics). In which time he could be flying a Legion or Paladin comfortably, that revolve around the same core skills in their PvE role as his Battleship, Harby or the Absolution.

As for the Eos, it's current problem (with the trends of the game changing) isn't the other CS as much as it is the Proteus outdoing the Eos in all applicable roles. Comparatively, the other link-subbed Strategic cruisers only replace their respective CS in one or two of the possible roles in different gangs.

Kara Corvinus
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.05.17 15:17:00 - [11]
 

thanks for the replies everyone thats made some really intresting reading,

im going to have another re-think about skills because as mentioned, in the time i go damnation i could be in t2 bs's

1600 RT
Posted - 2010.05.17 21:01:00 - [12]
 

command ships are a bit of a waste for mission.

a BS will serve you better

Koronos
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.05.18 03:36:00 - [13]
 

Those last 3 posts are actually much more incisive than mine. Damnation is an awesome ship but its effectiveness is really only fully realized with a mindlink (adding lots more training time) in a coordinated pvp/highend pve/tournament setting. Meaning where all of the setups in the gang are planned out beforehand or at least well understood.

That said, as you seem to be the type of person interested in helping your gang/corp/etc out over necessarily maximizing your solo effectiveness, I will say that this training path can be rewarding. And as Morgassana has helpfully clarified you'll also be able to fly guardian which can also have a _huge_ impact on the same set of gangs I mentioned above.

Flip side, if you are not going to spend a lot of time in mindlinked fleet command ships, t3 may serve you better, but I think that is a complicated question. Smile

Kazuros
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:14:00 - [14]
 

So I think we have hammered out the fact that the Amarr Fleet Command Ship is best left to group efforts, lets call this a fleet for simplicities sake, and the Field Command ship is good for solo efforts.

All in favor?

Lil Mule
Posted - 2010.05.18 15:22:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Kazuros
So I think we have hammered out the fact that the Amarr Fleet Command Ship is best left to group efforts, lets call this a fleet for simplicities sake, and the Field Command ship is good for solo efforts.

All in favor?


Not in favor, sorry.

Command ships need to be boosted to be in line with the addition of the Tier 2 battle cruisers.

Other than passive fleet boosting, at the moment both Field and Fleet command ships are over priced ineffective POS's.

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:10:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Kara Corvinus
thanks for the replies everyone thats made some really intresting reading,

im going to have another re-think about skills because as mentioned, in the time i go damnation i could be in t2 bs's


Well, I/We didn't want to "scare away" ur dreams...u asked about CSs, we gave u CSs...or short of...

Should you be in a missioning Corp or something like that, a single Damnation with proper (not maxed out) leadership skills could boost all ur corp members missioning in the same system (not just the same mission-dungeon), with their armor tankers...or even shield ones, just not as effectively.

It would never substitute a BS in lvl4 effectiveness, simply because just like all sub-BS ships, with the exceptions of Nighthawk and Tengu etc, they lack the DPS @ Range combo. Yes, CSs can run missions fine, but with a mild to great efficiency loss: aka usually you will need more time completing missions than with a properly skilled BS.

So for LvL4s etc, the Damnation doesn't really cut it - unless as I said before, u want to dedicate your toon to fleet-boost a missioning industry in ur corp/m8s.

For "harder" stuff, lvl 5s etc, were more than one person is required most of the rimes, using a Logistic perma running few RR modules should be more efficient than boosting the whole fleet, as usually all the agro/dmg is tanked by one ship. Also the logistic can swap RR to another fleet member in case of bad agro management, and that allows for buffer fitted dmg dealing BSs without local tank that usually restricts DPS and fitting left for hi-tier guns etc.


 

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