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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.13 19:25:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 13/05/2010 19:34:01
Imagine tomorrow you wake up, and learn that:

- 10 people who play CoD4 the most are now able to arbitrarily pass new rules, such as completely removing the RPG or 'Last Stand' game functions
- players decide that the Hunter in l4d2 is overpowered, removing it from the game.
- imagine what Quake2 would have been like without the railgun or BFG
- Imagine duke nukem without tripmines
- goldeneye without the golden gun

I love the idea of CCP listening to the players, but i think its ignorant to let these election-style 'CSM Candidates' to run free with whatever they want. For example just take Eva Jobse (Ankhesentapemkah)'s mass-spam evemails. CSM candidate, admits evemail spamming every single mission hub in empire with crap like this:

Quote:
CSM Elections - Watch the Movie!
From: Ankhesentapemkah
Sent: 2010.05.10 15:50
To: Starshipman, Stosta, stuntane, suptrader, svurr, Syranda, Talesia vanBergen, Talius Malterus, Tambre Elaisol, Tareth Vai, Tasadare, TATARIN UA, Taylor Fountain, Temestah, Terminal Insanity, Terra Shadestream, ThAhAuL, the cashier, The Cowz,

Greetings, pilot!

Apologies for addressing you unsollicited, however, for the fifth time, the Council of Stellar Management will be elected, and you must choose your candidate to represent you to CCP for the coming year!

Keep in mind that a vote not cast means a vote for the 0.0 powerblocks, and that at least 9 CSM candidates want to move all L4 missions to lowsec. Thus it is very important that you use your vote.
I could bore you with a lot more text, but instead made a professional movie. Watch it now: http://eve-takecare.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=26
Voting link is included on the page.

Thank you for your interest!

Eva Jobse / Ankhesentapemkah




I think it was hilarious when Goonswarm declared jihad against highsec miners.
It would also be hilarious if tomorrow we woke up and all lvl 4 missions were moved into lowsec, and undocking infront of a warp scrambler meant guarenteed death.
Further, it would be absolutely hilarious when half of the highsec population cancels their subscriptions.
More funny: these suggested high-sec changes are coming from 0.0 people!

But thats what could very well happen.
Quote:
It was agreed that CCP formally recognizes the CSM as a stakeholder in EVE development on equal footing with stakeholder departments within CCP

I pay CCP to overlook the game from a NON-PLAYER perspective. I dont pay them to give a handfull of players the ability to change the entire gameplay mechanics.

I would love to see CCP pull out some voting statistics, such as the percentage of votes coming from the top 5 alliances.

EVE is the game it is today, BECAUSE of CCP, not because they let whiners get what they want. If we are going down that road, then lets go:
- ban all scammers
- the removal of Local
- salvaging flags hostile (or just not able to salvage/steal at all!)
- Cloaks now use jumpdrive fuel
- remove insurance from highsec suicide deaths
- Under the influence of drugs is enough for customs to bust you
- Exchange SP and place it in other skills
- All the other stupid **** that people whine about

Lets do it! If we're going to let the players re-make this game from the ground up, we may as well go all out. and then a year from now when the game is dead, you'll know why.

Before the forum warriors start claiming that im a highsec missioner/miner/whatever, i should let you know that i haven't done a mission, or mined in well over a year.

Resonanza
Posted - 2010.05.13 19:33:00 - [2]
 

I support this inquiry.

the majority of CSM is PvP orientated and what they promote means massive nerfs to the PvE people. They claim, that "eve is a pvp game", yes it can be, but eve is a PvE game as well.

Players who play this game differently and ask for more improvements and developments on their side of the game (the PvE Game EVE), are usually mocked at, ridiculed, insulted, names called.

I too pay CCP to develop and balance this game and not a 18 year old who enjoys a free trip do Island pushing CCP to buff up his beloved ganking opportunities.

Lady Ayeipsia
Posted - 2010.05.13 19:41:00 - [3]
 

CSM makes proposals. What they suggest are not set in stone, nor, from my understanding, does CCP accept every suggestion.

CSM is sort of like the class president and council in high school. Yes, it had some function. Yes, the teachers and school listed to the council's request. However, the council no matter how much student backing it had, wasn't going to eliminate homework or say convince the school to hold a dance every night.

In other words, CSM passes along their suggestions and ideas. Yes, they have a better chance of having their suggestions viewed by CCP and implemented. However, that does not mean that just because CSM suggests moving all level 4s to low sec, that CCP is going to view that suggestion as in the best interests of EVE as a community and implement it.

Think about it in terms of politics... how many presidents or other candidates made sweeping campaign promises to get elected? How many of them actually kept all those promise and implemented every single idea they had?

So yeah, CSM serves a function and go vote, but just because they exist doesn't mean they are an all powerful body that can dictate how the game is developed or modified.

honestly, what I'd like to see are the number of suggestions made by CSM that have been implemented by CCP.

TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.05.13 19:42:00 - [4]
 

Most people pve to pvp, however for most of them it doesnt go any deeper than "shoot at rat till wallet reaches value X"

Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
Posted - 2010.05.13 19:44:00 - [5]
 

hey dont tar the rest of us with the same brush as others lol Crying or Very sad


x

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.05.13 19:45:00 - [6]
 

Agreed, but this is why you should also vote for the non alliance CSM canditates, they are not focused on pvp issues, they have their focuses on other issues.

I already casted my vote to a good buddy of mine who i have known since he was a noob to eve. Granted he is in a big pvp alliance, I also know I can trust him with the matters of us pve people.

Of course if he doesn't I have locater agents and know the names of his alts and I will personally pod his ass if he doesnt. (Sorry Cat its not you)

If anything Cat will always listen to the forum community and anyone who is on his facebook or mails him in game.

Reclamator Janu
Posted - 2010.05.13 19:47:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
hey dont tar the rest of us with the same brush as others lol Crying or Very sad


x



Yup, we shouldn't - you're actually worse than most of them, Jake. If you get elected, it really will show what a complete joke the CSM is.

Kirex
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.13 19:58:00 - [8]
 

Hey it's not like CCP listens to the CSM anyway. And we all know Ankasahupisptsdh is crazy, just read her CSM thread, but she'll probably still win a spot anyway because of her spamming.

Now, if you want to see low sec fixed and someone who isn't an idiot, vote for Elise Randolph. Cool

Ran Khanon
Amarr
Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:03:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Ran Khanon on 13/05/2010 20:04:33

I think folks at CCP are smart enough to realize the one sided and biased aspect to the CSM concept.

Because as it is now the CSM is hardly the pinnacle of democracy;

- A group of people will get selected by very different amount of votes but each of their voices has a similar amount of influence at the table.

- If you, for instance, rally for a common idea and agree with 4 other friends to all run for CSM and three of them get selected you have a much better shot at getting your issue on the agenda; "divide and conquer" and multiply your 'seats'

- Next to this, people with multiple accounts have more votes (arguably correctly so, because they pay more), but they are individual players nonetheless and in real life we don't pay the same amount of taxes either.

The CSM does function ok'ish though. It also makes CCP look good and it entertains the masses. It is likely that only the issues on which common ground can be found shall be addressed, and it just so happens that the diversity of CSM candidate agenda's and the voice of CCP make sure that those extremities you mentioned won't make it to the action list.

I do think we would be much better served with a large form of assembled player suggestions, grievances, fixes, etc, and having the chance to vote for them individually. Some kind of player census which highlights the things that most people want. Democracy 2.0. : CCP could actually give our countries the right example here.




Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:09:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 13/05/2010 20:15:01
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 13/05/2010 20:11:58
Basicly, this is all i see from the CSM candidates: "Vote for me and ill make eve better! Ill change this and this and that and...."

EVE is a wonderful game because it caters to a wide variety of players, touching on many different gameplay aspects. I completely agree that eve is mostly a PvP game, infact that is the major point that sets it apart from every other.

I think CSM should be more of an aggregator for the Ideas and Suggestions forum, but i still wouldn't trust them with that position ether. If CCP really wants to listen to the players, why not use a voting pole for specific features?



SOLUTION: Instead of voting on what CSM candidate i want, let me vote for what feature i want. This will cut the middle man out, removing all the stupid sleezy political fearmongering and vote harvesting.

CCP will now have a list of features that players want, and will clearly see what things the entire community wants to push forward.

Instead of relying on a CSM's half-winded idea of warpscram-disables-docking or whatever else, i bet we would see a TOTALY DIFFERENT set of features being presented, that the ENTIRE community would benefit from.

Wheres my stargate particle system? What happened to my engine trails!? what about community ideas for PI?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:15:00 - [11]
 

If you disagree with anything about the CSM, vote abstain. This is currently the only quantifiable number for people with issues.

Enough votes on abstain means a significant amount of people do care about the CSM but want to see it changed in some way. If this happens, CCP should want to know what's wrong and launch a more precise inquiry about it. After all, the CSM is PR and a bad image of the CSM is bad PR.

So if you see no candidate that could facilitate changes to the CSM that you would like or the whole concept or implementation is broken in your eyes, vote abstain instead of not voting at all. It's just a few clicks.

genette devo
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:19:00 - [12]
 

so when did the csm get any actual power?

Retribution's Shadow
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:28:00 - [13]
 

WTF do we need CSM's for, can any of you and i challange any one to reply, what has your csm actuly done for you.F*** ALL just an excuse to use the hard earned cash from us to go on a free trip and make it look like ccp cares, maybe ccp dose care but wtf do we need them for....after reading some of the post from them i cant see the point, and if i hear any one say spokes person... ccp read the dam forums save the isk rant rant rave..... witty comment.....FTW Shocked

Musical Fist
Gallente
NAP Coalition
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:29:00 - [14]
 

The solution to this is to vote cat, I cant explain atm but by voting cat you will prevent Ankh from getting a seat since Ankh is actually the weakest link, so voting cat means no Ankh

Or vote Darius and he can tell us (again) at fanfest how he beat Bob LaughingLaughing

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:37:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Kirex
Now, if you want to see low sec fixed and someone who isn't an idiot, vote for Elise Randolph. Cool



or MynxeeEmbarassed

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:41:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Retribution's Shadow
WTF do we need CSM's for, can any of you and i challange any one to reply, what has your csm actuly done for you.


To name but one thing: the skillqueue.

Usul Atreides
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:42:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Usul Atreides on 13/05/2010 20:44:30
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 13/05/2010 20:15:01
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 13/05/2010 20:11:58
Basicly, this is all i see from the CSM candidates: "Vote for me and ill make eve better! Ill change this and this and that and...."

EVE is a wonderful game because it caters to a wide variety of players, touching on many different gameplay aspects. I completely agree that eve is mostly a PvP game, infact that is the major point that sets it apart from every other.

I think CSM should be more of an aggregator for the Ideas and Suggestions forum, but i still wouldn't trust them with that position ether. If CCP really wants to listen to the players, why not use a voting pole for specific features?


This. If CCP really want a level of community input then just sticky a user poll in general chat and link to it from the dev blog and in game. The CSM is a total waste of time - simply no need for it. The ability for the masses to communicate isn't exactly a weak point of the intertubes.

Edit: I suppose it's easier to ignore a few CSM individuals than it is to ignore the entire community. Rolling Eyes

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:52:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
If you disagree with anything about the CSM, vote abstain. This is currently the only quantifiable number for people with issues.


I completely agree with this. I didn't even know we had the option... abstain has been registered ^_^

Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2010.05.13 21:05:00 - [19]
 

Why can't we make polls on this forum anyway .. so then at least CCP knows what the (forum reading) population really wants .. -.-

I vote for polls on the EV forum!!! Wink

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.13 21:16:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Usul Atreides
The ability for the masses to communicate isn't exactly a weak point of the intertubes.
Actually the noise of everyone shouting over everyone else is exactly one of the weakpoints of the modern Web.

Originally by: Usul Atreides
I suppose it's easier to ignore a few CSM individuals than it is to ignore the entire community.
So it is harder to ignore a bunch of whining on a forum you can choose not to read than to ignore someone sitting across as table from you? I think not.

Darth Skorpius
m3 Corp
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.05.13 21:31:00 - [21]
 

your logic is flawed, the csm dont get ot make direct design decisions, what they do is listen to player issues and ideas, =vote on which ones they like and would like to talk to ccp about in a face to face meeting, then have that face ot face meeting, and possibly brainstorm ideas with ccp on how to fix things that need fixing (im just guessing that last part, as i have never been a member of the csm). so even if most of the csm are pirates, that does not mean that lvl 4 missions will be moved to lowsec because ultimately, that decision still lies with ccp, and no matter how much pirates moan/whine/beg ccp knows that it would be stupid to move all lvl 4s to lowsec. they may not be the brightest of people at times, but they have enough brains not to do something so stupid that would likely result in thousands of players leaving, they are a business after all

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.13 23:54:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 13/05/2010 23:57:04
Originally by: Darth Skorpius
your logic is flawed, the csm dont get ot make direct design decisions

You must have missed the first post: "It was agreed that CCP formally recognizes the CSM as a stakeholder in EVE development on equal footing with stakeholder departments within CCP"
Basicly, the ideas that CSM brings up are looked upon equaly as any CCP employee's ideas. So no they dont get to say 'yes' or 'no', but they get to decide what issues are proposed... more on this problem in a moment...

Originally by: Darth Skorpius
face ot face meeting, and possibly brainstorm ideas with ccp on how to fix things that need fixing

That money that i paid to CCP every month is being used to fly a bunch of people to iceland for a party and chat with the devs. My money, wich could have been spent to hire a graphics programmer to finish the stargate's particle system, or any number of things THAT VANISHED from previous releases.
Not to mention, this money is being spent on people who are directly against what I want eve to be (and stay).

Originally by: Darth Skorpius
no matter how much pirates moan/whine/beg ccp knows that it would be stupid to move all lvl 4s to lowsec. they may not be the brightest of people at times, but they have enough brains not to do something so stupid that would likely result in thousands of players leaving, they are a business after all

... and back to that part. Yes, CCP knows its absolutely asinine to move lvl 4 missions to lowsec, but how many CSM candidates are getting votes from this issue? Thats right, CSM members are running on a platform that they have no hope in achieving. They say these things to gain whatever votes they can.

I took the CSM voting suggester thingy that's stickied to the top of the CSM forum, and the candidate that ranked highest with me was only 61%, and still conflicted with issues that are extremely important to me. Heres the scary part: i mostly voted to keep major gameplay-mechanic related things the same as they are now.


Nicholas Barker
Deez Nuts.
Posted - 2010.05.14 00:20:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 13/05/2010 19:34:01
Imagine tomorrow you wake up, and learn that:

- 10 people who play CoD4 the most are now able to arbitrarily pass new rules, such as completely removing the RPG or 'Last Stand' game functions



Last stand? Good riddance.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.14 00:25:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Nicholas Barker
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 13/05/2010 19:34:01
Imagine tomorrow you wake up, and learn that:

- 10 people who play CoD4 the most are now able to arbitrarily pass new rules, such as completely removing the RPG or 'Last Stand' game functions



Last stand? Good riddance.


cry some more =P


 

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