open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: EVE Gate: For those moments when your boss isn‘t looking [Updated]
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

Author Topic

gargars
Posted - 2010.05.14 22:11:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: CCP Karuck
We are not ignoring those concerns, they have been discussed a lot internally and we have commented on them numerous times in other threads.

I would really like if people got their facts straight on some of the things they are panicking about, it really isn't as bad as many people make it out to be.



First off I haven't seen anyone 'panicking' (using that word seems an attempt to negate people's concerns)... and yes I have seen a few responses to peoples objections/concerns... and in each case the response seems to be 'here is how you can go change your settings and standings'. Problem being why should we have to? Also how many Eve players will even know they have to do something like that? What IS being ignored is that people want (and naturally expect) such a personal service to be OPT IN not automatically forcing everyone into it, and sharing their information without 90% even being aware of it.
Also your opinion that violating our privacy 'really isn't that bad' doesn't matter. Paying customer's opinions are the ones that matter.

mkmin
Posted - 2010.05.14 22:20:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: CCP Karuck
We are not ignoring those concerns, they have been discussed a lot internally and we have commented on them numerous times in other threads.

I would really like if people got their facts straight on some of the things they are panicking about, it really isn't as bad as many people make it out to be.



Oh we hear what you're saying and your responses translate to "Yes we understand your concerns, but no, we don't give a crap about you or your concerns. Tuff luck. Thanks for paying my mortgage with your subscription."

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2010.05.14 23:45:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: CCP Karuck
We are not ignoring those concerns, they have been discussed a lot internally and we have commented on them numerous times in other threads.

I would really like if people got their facts straight on some of the things they are panicking about, it really isn't as bad as many people make it out to be.



You have never once stated why this system is "opt-out" instead of "opt-in". This is a fundamental violation of our privacy.

People have repeatedly pointed out that personal standings are generally based on target selection and not social issues and you have not addressed that concern with your oh-so wonderful social network.

People have personal blues that they don't want other personal blues to see. To avoid this, we have to initiate an action before EvE-Gate comes out, or risk those people noticing each other before we can get onto EvE-gate to change it. Forcing us to take action to protect our own privacy is idiotic.

If we want to participate in EvE-Gate, it should be our choice to turn those settings on.

And really, accusing people of "panicking" is a childish attempt to belittle their concerns without actually addressing them.

John CEO
Posted - 2010.05.15 00:51:00 - [64]
 

Oh my, what the f are you doing....is "opting out" of marketing emails acceptable to you?
Seems to me your taking part in smashing that wall down...Evil or Very Mad
Any information of my characters/person should not be available to anyone, game or not unless I choose so, and never by default to anyone.

Dal Deinvisu
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.05.15 02:21:00 - [65]
 

Concurred with all of the above. Opt-out systems are ridiculous and insulting. If I want to make Eve Gate my primary method of communication, I will do that and have ample time to mess with the settings. Otherwise, don't violate my information.

Siiee
Recycled Heroes
Posted - 2010.05.15 02:38:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: CCP Karuck
it really isn't as bad as many people make it out to be.


That is not up to anyone at CCP to determine. If I feel my privacy is being violated it doesn't matter if it's an actual or perceived violation, and "it's not so bad" is never an appropriate response.

Remember when Google Buzz was released, and defaulted to on because it was "so cool" and "who wouldn't want to use it?" it resulted in internet rage and exploits.

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.05.15 02:55:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: CCP Karuck
Originally by: Catari Taga
CCP, is there any hit per second limit you would like us to respect when crawling the site?


Crawling EVE Gate is forbidden as part of our soon to be updated Terms of Service, and can be a basis for an account ban. Remember that everything you do on EVE Gate you do logged in as your account.
You should be using the API when writing your tools, and if there is functionality on EVE Gate that is not on the API then that's something we will consider adding.


Well the comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but you know as well as I that noone cares whether trial accounts on random IPs get banned over a future terms of service change. And indeed, as I previously said in another thread, you will probably end up having to add at least current corp membership and employment history if not entire corp member lists to the API because people WILL be crawling EVEgate (and the format you make the employment history available in at least hints at you fully expecting it).

BloodHound MMIII
Posted - 2010.05.15 04:28:00 - [68]
 

Excellent, looking forward to this.... Keep up the good work Very Happy

Dragon Greg
Posted - 2010.05.15 12:18:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: CCP Karuck

Crawling EVE Gate is forbidden as part of our soon to be updated Terms of Service, and can be a basis for an account ban. Remember that everything you do on EVE Gate you do logged in as your account.
You should be using the API when writing your tools, and if there is functionality on EVE Gate that is not on the API then that's something we will consider adding.



Seriously. Never, ever, ever underestimate your subscribers. There's people who will throw a plex to a trial account just for the sake of working around any restrictions and if necessary sacrificing an untraced account.

EVE is a cold and dark place, filled with crazy people. Heaps of them, and they multiply Shocked

Originally by: CCP Karuck
We are not ignoring those concerns, they have been discussed a lot internally and we have commented on them numerous times in other threads.

I would really like if people got their facts straight on some of the things they are panicking about, it really isn't as bad as many people make it out to be.



We do appreciate that you are not ignoring those concerns, even if there is little to no sign of this whatsoever, but let's be honest, one of the last things something like EVEgate needs is the lack of validation by effective use right from the start. That's marketing. Understandable, but it does not make it better.

Please don't misunderstand this, but for most concerned people it's a case of principles. Good marketing takes those into account and uses that as a driving force, something EVE has had a great foundation in, over the years.

"If you want your cake and eat it too, you'll have to eat the warm apple pie first" - that's a pretty strange, even abusive, approach.

star's
Posted - 2010.05.16 00:42:00 - [70]
 

It would be nice to manage skills through EVEGate.Cool

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.05.16 12:21:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Catari Taga on 16/05/2010 12:28:59
Originally by: Dragon Greg
Originally by: CCP Karuck

Crawling EVE Gate is forbidden as part of our soon to be updated Terms of Service, and can be a basis for an account ban. Remember that everything you do on EVE Gate you do logged in as your account.
You should be using the API when writing your tools, and if there is functionality on EVE Gate that is not on the API then that's something we will consider adding.



Seriously. Never, ever, ever underestimate your subscribers. There's people who will throw a plex to a trial account just for the sake of working around any restrictions and if necessary sacrificing an untraced account.

1. I doubt you will need a subscribed account.
2. Even if you do, throwing PLEX at a buddy account comes at the same price as throwing it at your own account but you get 51 days for free on the buddy account, so yes, people do that all the time. Why do you think account numbers keep growing like they do?

Plumkin
Posted - 2010.05.16 20:07:00 - [72]
 

I'd prefer opt-in instead of opt-out.

CCP Rhayger

Posted - 2010.05.17 18:06:00 - [73]
 

Regarding EVE Gate being opt-in versus opt-out I am afraid that will not be the case. This is a conscious decision on our behalf for a number of key reasons.

1) Most importantly, EVE Gate is NOT an optional service added onto EVE. It is a new fundamental part of EVE, just as much a part as in game mail, fitting windows, contracts, etc. Opt-in versus opt-out implies this is an optional service slapped on the side, it is not. Extensive effort and investment will be going into broadening EVE Gate so that it is indispensable in enhancing and improving your experience

2) We are not ignoring security concerns, on the contrary we are investing heavily in addressing them and it is our goal to meet your concerns by giving you flexible control over your information. Our approach to addressing your concerns is not to turn off access all together, but to give you the tools to manage the control of your information yourself. This is something that will be continuously worked on, added to and enhanced

3) At its core this is a social network for EVE Players, not an anti-Social network. An opt-in setting would have almost no one included at start and is contrary to the purpose of the feature and would cripple its usefulness. We feel there are better and more productive ways to address your privacy needs.


In summary, we are listening very closely to your concerns and are making conscious changes to address your privacy needs, some of those changes you have already seen as a result of feedback from alpha testing. However we feel an opt-in or opt-out option is not the answer. As EVE Gate comes to life and you begin using it we would appreciate your feedback on the account settings we roll out and what further controls you would like to see added



Ms Michigan
Gallente
Aviation Professionals for EVE
Fusion Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.17 18:55:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: CCP Rhayger
Regarding EVE Gate being opt-in versus opt-out I am afraid that will not be the case. This is a conscious decision on our behalf for a number of key reasons.

1) Most importantly, EVE Gate is NOT an optional service added onto EVE. It is a new fundamental part of EVE, just as much a part as in game mail, fitting windows, contracts, etc. Opt-in versus opt-out implies this is an optional service slapped on the side, it is not. Extensive effort and investment will be going into broadening EVE Gate so that it is indispensable in enhancing and improving your experience

2) We are not ignoring security concerns, on the contrary we are investing heavily in addressing them and it is our goal to meet your concerns by giving you flexible control over your information. Our approach to addressing your concerns is not to turn off access all together, but to give you the tools to manage the control of your information yourself. This is something that will be continuously worked on, added to and enhanced

3) At its core this is a social network for EVE Players, not an anti-Social network. An opt-in setting would have almost no one included at start and is contrary to the purpose of the feature and would cripple its usefulness. We feel there are better and more productive ways to address your privacy needs.


In summary, we are listening very closely to your concerns and are making conscious changes to address your privacy needs, some of those changes you have already seen as a result of feedback from alpha testing. However we feel an opt-in or opt-out option is not the answer. As EVE Gate comes to life and you begin using it we would appreciate your feedback on the account settings we roll out and what further controls you would like to see added





Yeah - WE GET IT. You want to change EVE and get people to interact and get more sandbox. BLAH de-Fricken blah is what I say. AND HERE's WHY.

You are trying to change/improve the culture of the game and I give you credit for it but did you ever stop to think maybe instead of putting a band-aid on the problem. No instead we get the standard CCP solution (our product wasn't well thought out or implemented before)so instead we are making things more complex (now we have to worry about privacy violations you haven't thought of or really don't care about is esentially what your post said).

Think about WHY people tend to be "anti-social" and are only able to form small groups? ANSWER - Theft/inability to protect one's HUGE investment in TIME/ISK and feeding off that - this game takes too damn long to "play". I have been griping about this for months. No one at CCP is listening. Make EVE more casual (like a GAME). Improve our ability to exact revenge on those that cut us. You will then see people use TIME and ENERGY in a way that will A) improve the game interaction/SAND BOX you so much love B)People will not get frustrated and hopeless and become anti-social because of ninja's because now THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Instead though, you give us EVE - GATE. Its spirit is to get people to interact (because we all know MMORPG players are geeks and not capable of that on their own) and make a better world but what you fail to grasp is it is all for nought. Take some psychology classes CCP - Mazlow's heirarchy of needs - Unless your safety needs are met first you can't go out and do the rest.

Think about it this way, if your servers were being hacked daily you wouldn't have EVE - or better yet, if you couldn't afford to run your game because of RMT leeks - oh wait - now you get what I am saying!!!

mkmin
Posted - 2010.05.17 22:51:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: mkmin on 17/05/2010 22:53:44
Originally by: CCP Rhayger
Regarding EVE Gate being opt-in versus opt-out I am afraid that will not be the case. This is a conscious decision on our behalf for a number of key reasons.

1) Most importantly, EVE Gate is NOT an optional service added onto EVE. It is a new fundamental part of EVE, just as much a part as in game mail, fitting windows, contracts, etc. Opt-in versus opt-out implies this is an optional service slapped on the side, it is not. Extensive effort and investment will be going into broadening EVE Gate so that it is indispensable in enhancing and improving your experience

2) We are not ignoring security concerns, on the contrary we are investing heavily in addressing them and it is our goal to meet your concerns by giving you flexible control over your information. Our approach to addressing your concerns is not to turn off access all together, but to give you the tools to manage the control of your information yourself. This is something that will be continuously worked on, added to and enhanced

3) At its core this is a social network for EVE Players, not an anti-Social network. An opt-in setting would have almost no one included at start and is contrary to the purpose of the feature and would cripple its usefulness. We feel there are better and more productive ways to address your privacy needs.


*edited to redact potentially offensive language
1) Well, right now you're saying "We don't care how you play the game now, you WILL play it our way, like it or not." Guess what, we still control our own dollars. And your examples are bull****, because I can opt to NEVER use contracts if I choose, I can spend my whole EVE career in a reaper and never use the fitting screen, there is a default CSPA charge to protect your users and to respect their privacy and I can set that even higher and block people. But what I can't do is be 100% opted out of fail-book. I'm forced into it in a way that BY DEFAULT reveals information I don't want available to anyone but myself. Not only can I not opt out fully, I have to go through every single character on every single account to even half-*** opt out.

2) Guess what, CCP's track record for web applications is awful. Seriously, your website looks like it's 20 years old, and it's not. The ***holes in EVE (see my response to number 3) have a lot more experience being ***holes than you have being web programmers or even being programmers in general. They WILL outsmart you and any stupid half-***ed security measures you will poorly put into place. THEY ALREADY HAVE.

3) EVE is the antithesis of positive social interactions. You create game mechanics where players are rewarded for backstabbing and being ***holes and are PUNISHED for being cooperative and friendly. You have created a series of game mechanics where you can't afford to trust anyone, not even your own alts. By forcing us all into it and making our information unacceptably public by default, any smart corp leadership will be forced to require all their members to opt out and boycott the whole system. EVERY SINGLE CORP MEMBER IS NOW A SECURITY LEAK BY DEFAULT. Because of the default settings, the more not only we, but our corp members, use spacebook the more we are punished. You don't think griefers will wander around starter systems getting every single rookie they can to set them blue? Now you can spy on a corp without having to create an alt and join it in! And there will be no way for any leadership to even know about it or control it!

You're forcing me to protect myself through paranoia, and that's reducing what I can do in EVE. That's why I'm upset. My options are to be an ***hole, be a b*tch, or not play EVE.

Dragon Greg
Posted - 2010.05.18 08:27:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: CCP Rhayger

1) Most importantly, EVE Gate is NOT an optional service added onto EVE. It is a new fundamental part of EVE, just as much a part as in game mail, fitting windows, contracts, etc. Opt-in versus opt-out implies this is an optional service slapped on the side, it is not. Extensive effort and investment will be going into broadening EVE Gate so that it is indispensable in enhancing and improving your experience



Considering you are taking the immersion to an out of game environment, that is not really for you to decide. Unlike in game, the world outside the game is not a part of that, and while it is very possible to get people going and bridge that divide voluntarily the current approach is becoming an affront.

Originally by: CCP Rhayger

2) We are not ignoring security concerns, on the contrary we are investing heavily in addressing them and it is our goal to meet your concerns by giving you flexible control over your information. Our approach to addressing your concerns is not to turn off access all together, but to give you the tools to manage the control of your information yourself. This is something that will be continuously worked on, added to and enhanced



There are two angles there. Security and privacy. The part of flexible control in regards to security is understandable, even if this comes across as an approach of adding workload as an element of gamedesign. The point is not you turning off access all together, but the customer retaining control over whether to participate or not. The way you are presenting it, it's as if going online requires you to have all your details on facebook.

Also, forgive us for the comment, but please do not make comments or hints in the directions of iterations. Not only is there no foundation for any trust in that, aside of that statements of this nature will remain at best unproductive (and at worst counterproductive) until you actually invest the time to stop and breathe for a moment.

Originally by: CCP Rhayger

3) At its core this is a social network for EVE Players, not an anti-Social network. An opt-in setting would have almost no one included at start and is contrary to the purpose of the feature and would cripple its usefulness. We feel there are better and more productive ways to address your privacy needs.



Again, apologies and please do not misunderstand, but are you perhaps missing the point that by core design and principles everything in EVE is both social and anti social. Regardless of interaction, engineering or networking.
An opt-in setting would be massively and enthusiastically carried with even just a little bit of proper and creative marketing, if this is the result then keep in mind that social networking is a phenomenon of growth. Not a phenomenon of enforcing participation just to make it look good and used on paper to the people upstairs and maybe people will use it. Building a social network is building the social interaction and what is called the paradigm of "wish/want/will" that comes forth out persistant action and effort.

Originally by: CCP Rhayger

In summary, we are listening very closely to your concerns and are making conscious changes to address your privacy needs, some of those changes you have already seen as a result of feedback from alpha testing. However we feel an opt-in or opt-out option is not the answer. As EVE Gate comes to life and you begin using it we would appreciate your feedback on the account settings we roll out and what further controls you would like to see added



Our privacy needs are very simple. If a customer does not want anything to do with it, he should not be required to undertake any action. Facebook is not a requirement to browse the internet, so to speak.

Also, I hate to say this, but you are not just talking security here, you are also talking privacy. Here it is not a matter of how you feel, but about what the customer feels and how you influence that, and respect

Irongut
Sex Money Guns
Posted - 2010.05.18 09:38:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: CCP Rhayger
1) Most importantly, EVE Gate is NOT an optional service added onto EVE. It is a new fundamental part of EVE, just as much a part as in game mail, fitting windows, contracts, etc. Opt-in versus opt-out implies this is an optional service slapped on the side, it is not. Extensive effort and investment will be going into broadening EVE Gate so that it is indispensable in enhancing and improving your experience

2) We are not ignoring security concerns, on the contrary we are investing heavily in addressing them and it is our goal to meet your concerns by giving you flexible control over your information. Our approach to addressing your concerns is not to turn off access all together, but to give you the tools to manage the control of your information yourself. This is something that will be continuously worked on, added to and enhanced

3) At its core this is a social network for EVE Players, not an anti-Social network. An opt-in setting would have almost no one included at start and is contrary to the purpose of the feature and would cripple its usefulness. We feel there are better and more productive ways to address your privacy needs.


1) Yes it is an optional feature. Unless I will be required to use it in order to form a gang, shoot hostiles, run missions/rat/plex, build items, trade or mine then it IS an optional side feature. I do not need it to know when my corp/alliance are organising events because we already have EVE mail, forums, Jabber, etc.

2) You are ignoring our security concerns. Modern EVE warfare has a lot to do with spies and metagaming in 0.0 and in empire. By turning everything on by default and then throttling logins you are potentially revealing sensitive information which can be read before we get a chance to turn it off or even to see what you are revealing.

3) I really don't give a toss about a social network for EVE. I don't use these time wasting security risks in rl why would I want to use one in EVE? As for your "it's not an anti-social network" reasoning I can make vacuous statements too... I AM an anti-social person. I will be turning EVE gate off as soon as I can but I wish I didn't have to because there are better and more productive ways for me to spend my gaming time.

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.05.18 10:32:00 - [78]
 

I'm just wondering in terms of analogies. I can understand the values of evegate for social interaction, pilot to pilot and person to person. I can understand how cool it is for marketing purposes.

It's just, man. You should know your subscribers by now, underestimate them in any regard, it's just not healthy.

Look, consider the analogy. Why am I required to sign out of Facebook in order to use the internet, since going online means being preregistered. Is it so hard to see the flaw here?

EVE has always been the kind of game AND environment where the tools and freedom provided push its users to drive events and trends. Do it right, and there is no need to force anything on to people, they will do all your marketing work for you. Hurray, cheap and happy labour.

EVEgate should be opt-in, properly advertised and provided with a plaethora of integration points so that users see its existance and its opportunities, and in EVE's own spirit make the effort to balance the benefit and the risk.

Given quality, flexibility and an ability for users to build upon core functionality, there would be no issue whatsoever with EVEgate taking off and being a success.

Considering this, is it so hard to understand that coming from the EVE premises advertised people observe these fundamental shifts and are not happy about it?

Look, at the risk of turning this into a rant, which is not intended, I am thoroughly puzzled why you could not envision a concept like EVEgate in an ecosystem setting as advertised during the last fanfest and hinted upon prior to that.

A portal function is fine, even great. But why waste the invested resources into doing the kind of work which subscribers can and will do for you, in ways that traditionally outcompete anything the service itself can come up with since the subscribers are embedded in an immersive environment in which they sink their teeth into any and all challenges that facilitate their gameplay?

Was it so hard to consider the effective concept of a proper ecosystem where the brand equals the products, the marketing, the user reception and the market? Do not misunderstand me, personally I value the commitment, but from a commercial point of view it just strikes me as a case of reinventing a wheel which fits only on bicycles and not on a car. Well, perhaps in an Iteration, maybe.

Security arguments, I appreciate all efforts there, it is a display of commitment, but you cannot segregate this from the privacy argument. To do so, is failing to understand both the social (and anti social) interactions in EVE and common human (mis)behaviour.

Look, simple and honest question. Why not provide a portal function, with a nice technology foundation, a development framework for subscriber ventures and an opt-in but proper certification format for purposes of quality control of applications developed by subscribers.

Base functionality, extended exposure, a living community that pushes events, wide coverage by proud developers themselves as well as users who advocate their own usage patterns, andsoforth.
Less investment of resources, you turn your users into evangelists, everybody wins. Granted, the above is just a simple sketch, but the analogy should be clear.

CCP Karuck

Posted - 2010.05.18 10:42:00 - [79]
 

Lots of love in here :)

Originally by: Irongut

2) You are ignoring our security concerns. Modern EVE warfare has a lot to do with spies and metagaming in 0.0 and in empire. By turning everything on by default and then throttling logins you are potentially revealing sensitive information which can be read before we get a chance to turn it off or even to see what you are revealing.



Throttling is only TEMPORARY, and probably for a few days at most.

Also folks: http://www.ccpgames.com/en/jobs.aspx

Kossaw
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.05.18 10:58:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: CCP Rhayger

1) Most importantly, EVE Gate is NOT an optional service added onto EVE. It is a new fundamental part of EVE, just as much a part as in game mail, fitting windows, contracts, etc. Opt-in versus opt-out implies this is an optional service slapped on the side, it is not. Extensive effort and investment will be going into broadening EVE Gate so that it is indispensable in enhancing and improving your experience



So let me get this straight. You expect that we MUST use eve-gate - and the way you ensure this is to force us all to log in ASAP to check out security settings so that data we do not want to be shared is actually hidden (After you have already shared it) I assume at this point you are aware of the very public scr*w ups by google in recent times with respect to publishing private data. Please don't repeat this.

Quote:

In summary, we are listening very closely to your concerns and are making conscious changes to address your privacy needs, some of those changes you have already seen as a result of feedback from alpha testing. However we feel an opt-in or opt-out option is not the answer. As EVE Gate comes to life and you begin using it we would appreciate your feedback on the account settings we roll out and what further controls you would like to see added



OK Here's some feedback .... I HATE FACEBOOK AND I DONT WANT TO BE FORCED TO USE EVE-GATE. Default settings must be that player settings and data is ABSOLUTELY PRIVATE, unless explicitly shared in eve-gate.

Clear enough for you ?

If you want Eve-Gate to be "indispensable" do this by making it more functional, not by forcing us to use it.

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.05.18 11:12:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: CCP Karuck
Lots of love in here :)

Originally by: Irongut

2) You are ignoring our security concerns. Modern EVE warfare has a lot to do with spies and metagaming in 0.0 and in empire. By turning everything on by default and then throttling logins you are potentially revealing sensitive information which can be read before we get a chance to turn it off or even to see what you are revealing.



Throttling is only TEMPORARY, and probably for a few days at most.

Also folks: http://www.ccpgames.com/en/jobs.aspx



Ofcourse there is lots of love. It's because people care. Which is because they love the experience and the challenge.

Build on that. EVE is 7 years old. EVE Forever is a concept, but no ecosystem, far from. All work and no play makes Tom and Harry dull boys.

Teinyhr
Minmatar
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
Posted - 2010.05.18 12:20:00 - [82]
 

I really wish 0.0 players would stop crying their heart out all the time, they say that to "empire carebears" all the time so how about practicing what you preach, huh?

I have no problem with EVE Gate personally, altough yes I hate metagaming and the prevalence of getting alts to spy just about everything, still, the idea sounds neat. As long as you don't add Farmville there I'm fine with it.

Shaikar
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.18 12:32:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Shaikar on 18/05/2010 12:33:09
Originally by: CCP Karuck
Lots of love in here :)

Originally by: Irongut

2) You are ignoring our security concerns. Modern EVE warfare has a lot to do with spies and metagaming in 0.0 and in empire. By turning everything on by default and then throttling logins you are potentially revealing sensitive information which can be read before we get a chance to turn it off or even to see what you are revealing.



Throttling is only TEMPORARY, and probably for a few days at most.



I'm confused, are you agreeing with the concern or missing the point entirely?

Loomina
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2010.05.18 12:42:00 - [84]
 

I deeply resent being TOLD I HAVE to have Social Interaction and Networking through Evegate. I hate Facebook. I dont want Evegate.I have enough social interaction through Eve and RL thankyou!!

MARKETING: In all my years of Sales/Marketing, the best marketing tool I ever found was Personal Referral and word-of-mouth.
By all means....if Evegate is as good/usefull as you say it is, launch it as an OPTION.If it really does provide a genuinely effective Eve tool, this will spread like wildfire. If it really does add authentic value to the Game it will be on every forum in the Eve community as a "must have" and we will Vote with our feet...OUR way...not your Draconian way.This is at the very least, dis-respectfull to your player base.
Has anyone checked if this is legal ? and in compliance with the EULA ? (tho I suspest the EULA says CCP can do anything it likes )
*_*

Crayathan
Gallente
Body Count Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.18 13:17:00 - [85]
 

Seriously? ugh

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.18 13:23:00 - [86]
 

I have an absolutely INSANE idea!!

How about a dev blog on what EVE Gate actually IS? The lack of information on what this feature IS, is basically generating avoidable drama.

iP0D
Posted - 2010.05.18 13:52:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: iP0D on 18/05/2010 13:53:46
Originally by: Seleene
I have an absolutely INSANE idea!!

How about a dev blog on what EVE Gate actually IS? The lack of information on what this feature IS, is basically generating avoidable drama.


You're right. You are insane Very Happy

Truthfully though, in this case it is less about what it is, then what it does and how, but above all what the exact intentions and expectations are. In EVE there used to be always a big platform for players to go crazy on and with, sometimes to excess, mostly to grow EVE even further. There is always a balance between the state of desired affairs and the risk you run when not using those intelligence implants and taking shortcuts.

In this expansion that just seems out of the window. No, I'm not referring to PI with its absence of PVP (go team PI, big job ahead), but even just this evegate thing. Regardless of security intent, there remains the privacy principle, and the paradigm of effort / risk is lost on every corner - at least for practical considerations from a collection of player perspectives.

It's not a pos tracker after all, but seemingly a hybrid between Facebook (bad) and a portal (good), but seemingly also without any way whatsoever for players to build upon it (aside of reading data) except for duplications of systems already established by players (if not in practice then in limited application of concept), without a real good view on why this is better then what players have built themselves sofar.

Aside of the obligatory element, obviously. For this application matters as little as intent, perception is an easy landlord.

Look, if this is just a marketing thing, say so. People will understand, and you'd be surprised how many will actually jump on it cause CCP thinks it's good marketing, hey, maybe that approach works in game too. Maybe there's stuff you can use it all for, to make New Eden a better place for everybody & all that.


Dragon Greg
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:02:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: CCP Rhayger

1) Most importantly, EVE Gate is NOT an optional service added onto EVE. It is a new fundamental part of EVE, just as much a part as in game mail, fitting windows, contracts, etc. Opt-in versus opt-out implies this is an optional service slapped on the side, it is not. Extensive effort and investment will be going into broadening EVE Gate so that it is indispensable in enhancing and improving your experience



Correct me if I am wrong, but reading that once more, I am getting the impression that no matter what I feel or think, or more importantly what my game experience is, I will have to use EVEgate? Please do not tell me that you are thinking of features which require me to use it in order to complete tasks for the game?

In its current format, but also in future formats? If you are sticking to the Facebook format that HAS to be optional simply out of principle. God forbid you think of ways or features which move in game elements to EVEgate because then there is no escaping at all - please don't tell me you're thinking it would be so easy to move the Corporation management affairs to EVEgate.

As mentioned before, what is the point here. That is the question.

If this is Spacebook, make it optional. Simple. But it is one or the other, spacebook or portal. If it is meant as a portal to EVE, cool, excellent even, but the spacebook part should still be optional out of principle.

CCP Karuck

Posted - 2010.05.18 14:11:00 - [89]
 

EVE Gate is not Facebook, just because it has Facebook-like "status updates", that is actually just a small part of the whole application. If you read through the blog this thread is about you would see those features outlined (mail, calendar, contacts/standings..)
And yes we will keep adding more features to EVE Gate, both web-only features and exposing more of the client features on the web.

If it helps you to think about EVE Gate as "EVE on the web", then by all means do so and stop pushing it into the Facebook template :)

Dragon Greg
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:18:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: CCP Karuck
EVE Gate is not Facebook, just because it has Facebook-like "status updates", that is actually just a small part of the whole application. If you read through the blog this thread is about you would see those features outlined (mail, calendar, contacts/standings..)
And yes we will keep adding more features to EVE Gate, both web-only features and exposing more of the client features on the web.

If it helps you to think about EVE Gate as "EVE on the web", then by all means do so and stop pushing it into the Facebook template :)



You seem insistant on ignoring the challenge of principalities that rule in commercial development when engaging on replicating social networking structures like Facebook and/or Facebook derived interactions.


Well, I guess I should say thank you for confirming your intention to require players to engage in EVEgate for web-only features not available in game.

I'm a bit at a loss for words.


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only