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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2010.06.05 00:11:00 - [121]
 

Note that Oruze comes closest to 'ortus', the past tense, as in:

Quote:

Ortus

“Ortus a quercu, non a salice.” Latin for “sprung from an oak, and not from a willow” —i.e. stubborn stuff; one that cannot bend to circumstances.
Source: Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, E. Cobham Brewer, 1894



Also 'A solis ortus cardine' -> 'From lands that see the sun arise', hymn written by Coelius Sedulius (dc 450) for Laud in the Christmas season.

The past tense is significant as it signifies that the Sleepers have already risen, have already been born again. Their bodies maybe sleeping (in cryo-stasis) as their name suggests, and as referenced from their description, and from entries from the Oruze Enclaves, but their knowledge of VR, or perhaps in this case VL (Virtual life) is also referenced. Ghost in a Shell?

It must me noted that 'Ortus' also has connotations with 'Hortus', garden, as in 'Ortus Vocabulorum', i.e. Garden of Words, the first English-Latin dictionary, but that is because a garden is also a spring, the beginning of ordered (ordus) life.

Here's a link to the etymology of 'ortus', note the link with 'sunrise' and how that word springs up so awkwardly in The Virtauze Project.

Now, lets see what we can do with Osobnyk in Latin ... it doesn't sound Latin ...

Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Caldari
Project Daedalid
Posted - 2010.06.05 00:44:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara on 27/07/2010 00:58:45

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2010.06.05 02:33:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Edited by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara on 05/06/2010 00:46:51
Hilen is a neuropsychologist. The locus... Cold Wind.

I may not know Latin (per se) but I do know a bit of psychology and mnemonic devices. Wink

Thank you for asking the right question to the answer. Also, did no one get my Adams reference?
Sad


I don't know, if someone says to me someone send a locus as a password, I'm don't immediately associate that with a someone transmitting their 'locus of control' or a 'memory palace', I would assume they would send me something in the traditional 'Latin' sense of the world: a place or location. The text says: "It's a locus.", as a password, that suggests a location. A description of a locus of control, or a locus of memory probably wouldn't fit. Even if it was a reference to a memory Lianda shared with Hilen, the person he's talking to wouldn't be able to recognise it as such.

As for Osobnyk, or Osobnyak, we already know from this thread, and this thread that it probably isn't Russian, or found on google. But the description of the Oruze Osobnyk, or Osobynak as it was misspelled indicated that the structures were redesigned, and in the same thread referenced there is the suggestion that either the Quarantine or the Oruze Osobnyk or both are Talocan buildings. And then we get into this denim thing. When denim is based on 'de Nime', and we accept that Oruze does stand for Risen/Reborn, then we may perhaps Osobnyk, or Osobnyak, or Osobynak as well. Maybe into 'os-obnyk'?

Unfortunately, that doesn't help a lot. 'os' can be translated into mouth, face, or countenance, which is meaningless in the context. And Latin doesn't have 'y', but we could replace that with 'i' for 'obnik', but 'k's don't work very well either, so we could replace them with 'c' or 'que' for 'obnic' or 'obnique', but the 'bn' combination only really works for 'subnecto' : to bind on beneath, to tie. Which would work a but if we took the 's' back into 'o-sobnyk', making, with a lot of trouble, the phrase 'Oruze Osobnyk' into 'ortus o subnecto': 'to tie the risen', or 'binding of the risen'? But I stress, that's quite a stretch.

If we ignore the 'n' as in 'osobic' or 'osobique', or 'o-sobic', or 'o-sobique', or 'os-obic' or 'os-obique', like we we did in 'Vitra'->'Vita', and in reverse 'Oruze'->'Ortus', we have a number of options: 'obicio', 'obieci', 'obiectum': to offer, throw in someone's teeth; 'obliquo': to turn sideways, turn aside; 'obsequium': indulgence, pliancy, submission; 'obtineo' : to hold, keep, possess, maintain / to continue.

If we go with 'obicio' from 'ob'+'iacio', I hurl/throw, spoken: /obˈi.ki.oː/, it has diverse meanings including: expose, interpose, oppose, bring upon, and inflict. So this could be 'Otrus os obicio': infliction on the Risen?

If we go with 'obliquo' from oblīquus,'slanting', spoken /obˈliː.kʷoː/, figurative: dissemble, speak evasively. So this could be 'Otrus os obliquo', dissembling of the Risen?

If we go with 'obsequium' from obsequor, 'submit to, yield to': yielding, compliance, obediance. So this could be 'Otrus os obsequiem': obediance to the Risen? Or if 'os' denotes the negative: Disobedience of the Risen?

If we go with 'obtineo' of which I don't know the etymology: to hold, to posses. So this could be 'Otrus os obtineo': holding of the Risen or possession of the Risen?

But again, nothing fits really well, it's really stretching to get this to work. Nevertheless, if there is anything to this line of thinking then 'Oruze Osobnyk' points to some involuntary holding place of the Sleepers. And if the Talocan build the Oruze Osobnyk structure, releasing the Sleepers might not be a good idea ...

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2010.06.05 02:53:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara

OH, and if she's anywhere...

...she's here.



Because of the residential areas or the Solar Engineering? Well, could be, but I wonder. We also have this message. A recent matter displacement? At first I thought this would be a close encounter with a Sleeper, but now I'm thinking, as the Sleepers have been gone, or who knows, imprisoned, for a very long time, the only recent addition is Lianda. As a scientist she no doubt would have examined what's left of the information in the mirror(s), but at the same time, a big piece of the puzzle lies in the Oruze Osobnyk complex. The Oruze Osobnyk complex is only known because it transmits that signal, that's how we know its name. What if it is not an identification signal, but a warning to all trespassers: "Be warned, here is where we keep the Sleepers contained! Stay away". Given that Lianda is all about finding answers, unravelling mysteries, and solving puzzles, she would inevitably be drawn to the Oruze Osobnyk complex to solve it. Perhaps CONCORD and the Jovians are collecting all the Sleeper data and doing Sleeper research not to get at Sleeper technology for us to use, but to stop Lianda, and ultimately the capsuleers, as we too have clones, to reach and set free the Sleepers.

Perhaps the locus is the location of the key to unlock Oruze Osobnyk, or to set free the Sleepers ...

Ortan Murdak
Liberty Storm
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.06.05 03:14:00 - [125]
 

So here's what we have to work with. I'm fairly certain we have Oruze figured out, and that refers to a place of return, or something along those lines. Thus, Osobnyk likely refers to the structure itself, possibly the/an Osobnyk. now we just need to figure out what its purpose is, outside of just a collaboration between the ancient races. One possibility, certainly not the only one, is that it is a device, or the means of developing a device, "to return" to earth, devised by some or all of the ancient races. Any other thoughts would be great, because I don't have any more insights into the etymology, so experimentation in game is probably the best way to figure out what's going on. Perhaps if you try what Lianda did, and "park" a ship right up againnst the structure something might happen.

Gil Danastre
Amarr
JAF-CO Exploration
Posted - 2010.06.05 03:54:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Because of the residential areas or the Solar Engineering? Well, could be, but I wonder. We also have this message. A recent matter displacement? At first I thought this would be a close encounter with a Sleeper, but now I'm thinking, as the Sleepers have been gone, or who knows, imprisoned, for a very long time, the only recent addition is Lianda. As a scientist she no doubt would have examined what's left of the information in the mirror(s), but at the same time, a big piece of the puzzle lies in the Oruze Osobnyk complex. The Oruze Osobnyk complex is only known because it transmits that signal, that's how we know its name. What if it is not an identification signal, but a warning to all trespassers: "Be warned, here is where we keep the Sleepers contained! Stay away". Given that Lianda is all about finding answers, unravelling mysteries, and solving puzzles, she would inevitably be drawn to the Oruze Osobnyk complex to solve it. Perhaps CONCORD and the Jovians are collecting all the Sleeper data and doing Sleeper research not to get at Sleeper technology for us to use, but to stop Lianda, and ultimately the capsuleers, as we too have clones, to reach and set free the Sleepers.



The recent matter displacement, coupled with the "powerful isotope" bit, makes me think that it was a holding area for isogen-5, much like the station that exploded causing the WH's to appear. whether it was the original location for the material that ended up in New Eden, or the stockpile the sleepers had to explode on their end, not sure.

As for the locus, as you said, it could refer to a location. All WH's are referenced by a locus signature #, maybe we just haven't stumbled across the right one yet? There are ~4000 of them after all. I do think this is the case, going by several lines.

Quote:
They will not be everywhere at once, and we can move undetected. In this environment, so can they. We are all headed to the same destinations. We have no desire to be noticed, and no hope in conflict with them.


Quote:
Naturally, there will need to be a waiver on capsuleer-related science and industry, but this is the second thing you must understand. The truth will find its way out eventually. Please forgive me for saying so, but I cannot properly serve in this role if I do not give you the most accurate analyses I can. The truth will find its way out. We cannot control their access. It will be they who make the discovery.


I'm thinking there's something we just haven't found yet (ingame). As to it's whereabouts, or if it actually exists in game yet, well, that's for Dropbear to not tell us Very Happy

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.06.05 08:48:00 - [127]
 

Gil Danastre said "All WH's are referenced by a locus signature #, maybe we just haven't stumbled across the right one yet? There are ~4000 of them after all. I do think this is the case, going by several lines."
I really hope not. If there is a single or just a small number of special wormholes related to the story then chance's are we will never solve this. I find almost all wormhole people are not interested and if they came across the special wormholes most likely wouldn't say anything to those of us interested in the story. The few of us interested in the story are unlikely to stumble across that one wormhole.

Wormholes appear to be split into regions. I found nearly all my wormholes where based in one region group. Not sure how many are in one region but I often stumbled across the same wormholes time and time again not to mention the same people kept stumbling across our home base wormhole system. Due to how wormhole space is setup we was mostly cycling though the same small group of wormholes. Not the whole 4000 set.

If there is a special wormhole you would have to know which kspace region to scan from, to get the highest chance of finding it. It could be something like you have to scan wormholes from the Eve gate or any other number of locations to get a link to that special wormhole if its real.

Saying that it would be cool to stumble across a special wormhole. But it would also be next to impossible to find.

Selar Nox
Posted - 2010.06.05 09:00:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
If there is a special wormhole you would have to know which kspace region to scan from, to get the highest chance of finding it. It could be something like you have to scan wormholes from the Eve gate or any other number of locations to get a link to that special wormhole if its real.

Is it known where the Vitrauze Project took place?

Jack bubu
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.06.05 09:47:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
Gil Danastre said "All WH's are referenced by a locus signature #, maybe we just haven't stumbled across the right one yet? There are ~4000 of them after all. I do think this is the case, going by several lines."
I really hope not. If there is a single or just a small number of special wormholes related to the story then chance's are we will never solve this. I find almost all wormhole people are not interested and if they came across the special wormholes most likely wouldn't say anything to those of us interested in the story. The few of us interested in the story are unlikely to stumble across that one wormhole.

Wormholes appear to be split into regions. I found nearly all my wormholes where based in one region group. Not sure how many are in one region but I often stumbled across the same wormholes time and time again not to mention the same people kept stumbling across our home base wormhole system. Due to how wormhole space is setup we was mostly cycling though the same small group of wormholes. Not the whole 4000 set.

If there is a special wormhole you would have to know which kspace region to scan from, to get the highest chance of finding it. It could be something like you have to scan wormholes from the Eve gate or any other number of locations to get a link to that special wormhole if its real.

Saying that it would be cool to stumble across a special wormhole. But it would also be next to impossible to find.


Just to correct you, its only ~ 2500 WH-systems :)

i also wonder why noone had brought the Ante chronicle up
http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=19-04-10

Quote:


"Yes." He looked around as though there were other people in the room with him, but none were visible on the holographic display. "They’ve agreed to your plan. So what’s our next move?"

"Consolidate all the data received from the Zephyr program, everything those oblivious capsuleers have given us on wormhole space. Prepare the datacores for immediate transport; a representative from the Sisters of EVE will be arriving shortly to take possession."

Lecante nodded. "I think you’ve really nailed this one, Silphy. That’s precisely the kind of token Ishukone won’t be able to resist."

"I know," she concluded, touching the disconnect button and raising the glass to her cheek again. She spent the remainder of the journey back to Syndicate space staring out the window of her cabin, unable to conceal her nostalgic smile.




Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.06.05 10:26:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 05/06/2010 10:30:26
Jack bubu said "i also wonder why noone had brought the Ante chronicle up"
I like to pretend it doesn't exist as its makes no sense to me. Its reads to me, lets waste tons of money building tons of ships 99% of which will never even go into wormhole space. The 1% that do go into wormhole space will give us random scanning results perhaps not want scanning we want or give us zero results. A large number will be sitting at a pod pilots POS scanning nothing. Even more will never transmit the data back to us as many of the ships don't leave wormhole space and re-enter k-space for us to get the data.

All in all the same effect could have been achieved not only drastically cheaper but far more effectively by speaking to the wormhole corps more so the research wormhole corps. Many research wormhole corps like mine and others are freely sharing all scanning data. Not only that but they could have request us to scan what they wanted instead of randomly
It comes down to they spent a small fortune just to have 1 or 2 Zephyr ships from my corp scan our Pos. or they could have requested for free all the sensor data from all the ships in my corp.

Why covertly do something, that's costly. When you can get it for free and more accurately? It's not like they would even have to tell us what they are looking for. That and the corps that wouldn't give the data for free, I bet would sell it for a small fraction of the price that the Zephyr program cost.

To me the Zephyr was a Deus Ex mechanic that was not needed. It was an extremely inefficient and costly way to do things. I dare so for the price of the Zephyr ship program just to get 1%of the shuttles in wormhole space they could have built a real fleet and scanned the data they wanted. What was it 600,000+ Zephyr shuttles built. Less than 5000 made it into wormhole space, even less made it out of wormhole space to report data back.

For the price of over Zephyr why not build a real fleet with your own pilots. Thinking about it 1% is way, way overestimated. We are talking a fair bit under 1% of Zephyr built made it into wormhole space and back to K space.

EDIT: Another way to put it. The Zephyr program is sort of like hiring 10,000 hackers to steal a police report. Only 10 of the hackers do the job but you pay them all. To make matters worse you could have just requested the police reports for free.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.06.05 10:40:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 05/06/2010 10:43:10
"Consolidate all the data received from the Zephyr program, everything those oblivious capsuleers have given us on wormhole space."
Yah we spent tons of money and tricked those capsuleers in giving us info they would have given us for free. What makes them think we are oblivious to the Zephyr program. It's more likely we don't care, as we tend to share that type of info. Pod pilots already have 100% mapped out wormhole space. We have a designation for every known wormhole system, what type of stars and what's in the system, what class the system is, what type of sleepers are found in the system, what effects are in the system. There are massive shared data's base's between pod pilots so when we go into a new wormhole we can intently look up what to expect right down to the makeup and design and defence of each single sleeper site. All this info and more is shared.
So what is the point of the Zephyr program? To map out what we have already mapped out?

More to the point how do they know we are oblivious to the Zephyr program. Pod pilots have a habit of tweaking ships right down to rigs that are out of spec. Someone would have found the hidden sensors. But more likly we dont care as we share sensors info anyway.

Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Caldari
Project Daedalid
Posted - 2010.06.05 12:18:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara on 27/07/2010 00:59:24

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.06.05 12:26:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Myxx on 05/06/2010 14:04:59
Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara

Reminds me of something...
Quote:
Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known.

Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door.

If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator?



You never remembered who it was that closed you in.

- Ior Labron.

I don't think it is the "Talocan" who are keeping the Sleepers there. I think they just happened to stumble into the prison. Or rather, the quarantine area.

I do find this chronicle interesting. It's probably symbolic of something...

Then again, it's probably nothing.


I saw the prison bar thing differently - not referring to the quarantine area, so much as perhaps an intentional opening of wormholes into K-Space by sleeper/talocan meddling.

the wormholes being hidden pathways around the bars of our known prison, known space being all we ever knew. they unlocked the doors, they arent our liberators. they're our enemies. Read it again, that isn't how an accident happens. That was intentional meddling. Why was it meddling?...

They were sealed off because they were sick and nobody saw it coming. They meddled in our affairs to find a cure, to unlock their own bars. We didnt see it coming either. One of them wanted us to find the prison, to see it for what it is.

As well, this quote made me consider something. The talocan, may not of lived alongside the sleepers. Indeed, perhaps the sleepers evolved from the talocan, or perhaps, the talocan sealed them inside and fled? One may of come after the other.



If true, that might infact be the cause for wanting diplomats. This might be their ancient enemy, their ehnduanni. They needed help, so they let us out of our prison.

hindsight might be helpful here, too.

addendum: it occurred to me, that perhaps the talocan and the sleepers aren't different at all. perhaps the sleeper drones were created by the talocan to keep the quarantine area secure, to wait for us to be ready to help them? they wanted to use us, perhaps. they kept us in our prison - known space - to evolve until we could do something about it. it was hypothisized to me that oruze might perhaps have a meaning similar to 'star' or something similar. Perhaps it might also have a similar meaning of 'mansion' which would be akin to 'a place to live', as was said above.

I wouldnt be the first person to see stars and life being inseperable, nor would I be the first to say that we are all made of star stuff. This could very well be a neat little play on those words by CCP.

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2010.06.05 14:57:00 - [134]
 

There is one thing the Zephyr can do that no other ship can do. It can scout protected Sleeper sites without being attacked by the Sleeper drones.

The mirrors aren't the problem, they are Class 2, but Oruze Osobnyk is a Class 5, and about the most difficult one out there. It is awash with Sleeper BS and you need a large group of RR BS simply to counter the defence. Yet the Zephyr can go in untouched.

True the capsuleers have explored most WHs by now, and true almost nothing comes back to be shared, but the Zephyr can go out there, basically live among the Sleepers, and come back unharmed. Is it cost-effective? Probably not, but the thing is basically tin-foil and bubblegum, it's not very expensive either.

It is clear that important sites for this story will be heavily guarded, and only the Zephyr can go there at ease. Also, it can only probe, but not hack or analyse, so that's probably not necessary. If I understand correctly, someone already tried that on Oruze Osobnyk to no avail. The Zephyr to me, and the Ante Chronicle isn't a Deux Ex Machina, but a further hint, an Upping of the Ante, to encourage us to look further, and the Zephyr was designed specifically to allow any one of us to do this. It tells us we haven't mapped out all there is to map out.

All in all, I do think we're still looking for the one piece of the puzzle we're still missing. I think this is a story of exploration, not of violence, and the Zephyr fits into this, a pure exploration vessel. I agree with Gil Danastre, the locus refers to a WH, the use of the word as an location indicator for a wormhole, and how it was used in the Vitrauze Project chronicle, indicate that.

But if this is a story of exploration, my guess is we are looking not for a first entry WH, we're looking for a WH deeper in, one we need probing for. There are breadcrumbs all over the place: the mirrors, the Oruze Osobnyk (s), the quarantine areas. We don't have to look into all WHs, we just need to find a way to connect up all the dots, and no doubt the path will become clear (eventually).

Already there are 'special' wormholes, and we should focus on examining those more. Maybe we need to probe for special features in those wormholes to look for the next step or clues to point us in the right direction. My idea is that the 'Vitrauze WH', is just the first WH on the path.

I've already looked at the stanzas at the beginning of the Anoikis Chronicle here, but I'm not clear about who is what and what is who. As for the ehnduanni, we know so little about them, they could be anything or nothing in this story, and currently we have no indication they have anything to do with any of this, so for now we may just as well ignore them until we do.

What I think we need to do is collect all the information on the 'special' WHs in one place. Location, what is in there, location relative to non WH space. Then we can start looking at patterns, see if the loci of the mirrors reflects anything in non WH space for example. Personally I don't know a lot about the quarantine areas, and they seem to be important as well. Lianda send back the locus of a WH. We need to find that WH as well, maybe we already did but didn't realise it. Maybe by them we know more for us to recognise the trigger when it is there. Pottsey, you seem to have gathered a lot of information, is there anything you can contribute to this?

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2010.06.05 15:08:00 - [135]
 

As to the Latin meaning of Oruze Osobnyk. I can't really make it stick so that it is obvious. But one must remember that Latin is etymologically very close to many other languages, from Romanian, to Italian, to Spanish, to French (denim), in fact to almost all Western languages including English. So even if Latin is the language we should be looking at, maybe no western language is that. On the other hand, the language the original settlers of New Eden took from earth probably had some etymological connection with Latin.

In that sense, but I may be reading too much into this, Oruze Osobnyk, is some holding place, a concentration point, or a place of bondage for those that have risen, i.e., the Sleepers. It seems they didn't go there voluntarily, maybe they were collected there by the Talocan (a younger race if I'm not mistaken) perhaps even after they had been reborn. If the quest is to find out more about who or what the Sleepers are, we need to find a way to unlock the Oruze Osobnyk. We need to find a trigger.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.06.05 15:58:00 - [136]
 

"Pottsey, you seem to have gathered a lot of information, is there anything you can contribute to this?"
Only that wormholes sectors can be grouped into regions. If you are a wormhole that's in say region 1 a lot of new wormholes will also be to other wormholes grouped into region 1. In our class 6 I found most of our exits to K-space where to the same region of K-space and we often bumped into the same small group of wormholes and the same people kept bumping into us finding out system.

If there is a special wormhole and you know what region of wormholes it's in. Then you can in theory increase your chances of finding it. Once you get into a wormhole that's in the same region as the special wormhole. Only jump to new wormholes that are in that same region. In thoery more wormholes then not will be in that region. Sooner or later you will get to the special wormhole without having to cycle though all 2500 odd wormholes. Basically wormholes are not 100% random. There is a pattern. There is a random element to wormholes as well.

See for a map of wormhole space http://ouroborus.org/eve/images/whtcmap.png A map of wormhole space also appeared on the test server for a short amount of time.

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2010.06.05 16:25:00 - [137]
 

Would you say that the 'special' sites, the mirrors, the Oruze Osobnyk, and perhaps the Quantine areas, spawn randomly in the correct class of WH. For example. The Oruze Osobnyk is a class 5 site. Would it eventually spawn in any class 5 wormhole no matter where it is located in WH space or relative to the connecting K-space?

CCP Dropbear

Posted - 2010.06.05 18:03:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 05/06/2010 18:16:47

The significance of Vitrauze - the name, the system and the mention of it in the chronicle:

The "Vitrauze Project" chronicle is a story of sacrifice. The significance of it happening in Vitrauze ends at the name, so let me at least quell any deeper speculation into that and links with Oruze or any other plot elements.

Put simply…Lianda had come there to die, and she knew it. What she noted was that the system, to the Amarr, simply meant "life," but to her own people it meant "living".

The difference is that to define living, you would probably also want to define dying. A definition of life is not similarly demanding (in my mind, anyways).

They're "different in the way sunrise and sunset are". One is about life itself, the other is about a cycle of life. It's a theme echoed throughout her own plan of actions; she's going to do something that costs her life, but others who live on - such as you - are going to pick up the on her trail, and tread the hidden paths. The cycle will continue in the same way the same crimson nebula that sets the backdrop for her death is "teeming with the lives and deaths of a thousand stars." :)

I like the accidental overlap of sunrise/sunset Vitrauze/Oruze/Oruze/stars/wow a lot of things though…and the related theories.

It's fascinating what grows when you plant so many seeds everywhere, and if I wanted I could still shift things in the storyline to accommodate one theory or another, but there are better opportunities for player feedback and interactivity, I think, hence me coming here to set at least that much straight.

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.06.05 18:28:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 05/06/2010 18:16:47

The significance of Vitrauze - the name, the system and the mention of it in the chronicle:

The "Vitrauze Project" chronicle is a story of sacrifice. The significance of it happening in Vitrauze ends at the name, so let me at least quell any deeper speculation into that and links with Oruze or any other plot elements.

Put simply…Lianda had come there to die, and she knew it. What she noted was that the system, to the Amarr, simply meant "life," but to her own people it meant "living".

The difference is that to define living, you would probably also want to define dying. A definition of life is not similarly demanding (in my mind, anyways).

They're "different in the way sunrise and sunset are". One is about life itself, the other is about a cycle of life. It's a theme echoed throughout her own plan of actions; she's going to do something that costs her life, but others who live on - such as you - are going to pick up the on her trail, and tread the hidden paths. The cycle will continue in the same way the same crimson nebula that sets the backdrop for her death is "teeming with the lives and deaths of a thousand stars." :)

I like the accidental overlap of sunrise/sunset Vitrauze/Oruze/Oruze/stars/wow a lot of things though…and the related theories.

It's fascinating what grows when you plant so many seeds everywhere, and if I wanted I could still shift things in the storyline to accommodate one theory or another, but there are better opportunities for player feedback and interactivity, I think, hence me coming here to set at least that much straight.



GAHH! You say SO MUCH yet you say SO LITTLE!

Harsh!


CCP Dropbear

Posted - 2010.06.05 18:34:00 - [140]
 

What? Razz

Crazey Monkey
Gallente
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.06.05 19:43:00 - [141]
 

Forgive me, if this has been said, but could their name be a semi pop culture referance to the 1996 movie, "Sleepers". Also the plot of the movie has a few similarities to the eve sleeper plot.

Aynen
Posted - 2010.06.06 06:44:00 - [142]
 

I've been going over Oruze Osobynak in my head all night, and the only thing I can make of it is Origin Assembly. Now it'd make sense that since the Talocan, the Jove and the Sleepers where blossoming again faster after the collapse than we did, that they'd be the first to attempt to get back home, and they may have tried to get there together.
We found sleeper tech, but also Talocan tech, and some of the tech seems to resemble Jove tech. So I'm guessing they all went, then the sleepers developed this vr technology, the jove wanted to make use of it because of their condition, the sleeper drones left behind might have gotten hostile with the remaining talocan who didn't want to be digitized, and thus you see what there is today.

Connie Focal
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2010.06.06 07:38:00 - [143]
 

Just a couple of thoughts - I don't really know enough to contribute properly but maybe someone else can make something of the ideas.

Thinking about 'Oruze' as a 'place of return' I immediately think of a connection to a Mirror - ie; energy (as light) enters the mirror and returns.

Another thing that struck me is the idea of anoikis. In a biological context it refers to cells dying if removed from their normal environs. However, it's also mentioned that some cells can evolve to be able to survive once seperated - ie; cancer. From a selfish standpoint a cancer cell is much better than other cells as it can reproduce regardless of the various things trying to make it die. If you take proliferation as a desirable outcome you could think of artifically seperating something as generating a selective pressure - ie, a drive to improve.

Which leads me to the idea of seperating or isolating something until it is powerful or clever enough to 'return'. This sounds like a departure from the idea of cells in their natural home, but cells didn't originate in their 'homes', they migrated there via molecular mechanisms directed by things outside their own control. And if they are unable to survive elsewhere anyway, is the extracellular matrix they're located in their home, or their prison? Perhaps freedom is about realising that you locked the door yourself and that you have the power to unlock it.

Not that sure where I'm going with all this, other than the vague idea of enforcing an isolation in the hope that the isolated party will come up with some brand new, evolutionary and creative solutions to free itself, beyond anything that anyone else could ever come up with and that these solutions could have important applications elsewhere.

Selar Nox
Posted - 2010.06.06 12:02:00 - [144]
 

I'm not absolutely sure anymore, if the term 'Anoikis' really relates to W-Space/Sleepers.
Intentional death because the loss of the (connection to) familiar surroundings could also refer to Lianda's situation.
She lost the most important person around her (Hilen, her 'life-spending surroundings'), what makes her want to die (by entering the wormhole; intentional death, programmed death).

Aynen
Posted - 2010.06.06 15:49:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Selar Nox
I'm not absolutely sure anymore, if the term 'Anoikis' really relates to W-Space/Sleepers.
Intentional death because the loss of the (connection to) familiar surroundings could also refer to Lianda's situation.
She lost the most important person around her (Hilen, her 'life-spending surroundings'), what makes her want to die (by entering the wormhole; intentional death, programmed death).
Well, isn't it kind of an assumption that the sleepers had really digitized themselves? Maybe the enclaves aren't filled with people hooked up to a computer, maybe it's a cemetary? Maybe they all decided to drink the coolaid?

Tramlaw Trub
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2010.06.07 00:34:00 - [146]
 

Why would sleeper "drones" need Neurovisual input like we do if they were simply machines? Why not process the data directly?

Glock Karr
Posted - 2010.06.07 01:40:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 05/06/2010 18:16:47

I like the accidental overlap of sunrise/sunset Vitrauze/Oruze/Oruze/stars/wow a lot of things though…and the related theories.





Could the technology be about the birth of a star or something? or killing a star to create a wormwhole?

DmD666
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.06.07 05:04:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu


- We know the Jovians are fighting an indeterminate foe for whom mastery of technology is innate. The Jovians are terrified of this enemy.



Where do we know this from? I've never seen this before.

Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.07 05:10:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Tramlaw Trub
Why would sleeper "drones" need Neurovisual input like we do if they were simply machines? Why not process the data directly?


Perhaps because the drones aren't actually drones? Maybe they're what the 'Sleeper' race has placed themselves (or some of them anyway) into.

That would make the collection of tags and certain datacores useful for the empires. If those contain the memory of particular Sleeper (or even Talocan!) members, do you think the empires (or Jove for that matter) really want that in our hands?

I admit this is a bit far-fetched, but does sort of fit with the rest of the discussion here.

--A_K

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.06.07 05:55:00 - [150]
 

DmD666 said "Where do we know this from? I've never seen this before."
http://www.eveonline.com/races/theodicy/


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